So Few Actually Visit

[ambach123]

I am corresponding with several ladies. I am having problems maintaining the correspondence. They are interested in a meeting ASAP. Some of them state that letter writing is not their thing since so few AM actually visit.

AFA website states that only 3% of AM who do the letter writing actually visit the FSU. I am not sure where they got the stats from and how accurate it is.
From the RW's point of view I can understand, if they are only going to meet with one out of the thirty+ who writes them, they would not be very enthusiastic to write.

I would like to get to know someone before meeting, but that seems to be difficult.

In addition I saw on the news that the airfares are expected to double or triple during the next 3 to 6 months; the news item was about domestic travel, they had no mention of international travel, but I assume the effect would be the same.

If the ticket to FSU would cost $3,000 or more that would further reduce the number of AM visiting. I believe this reputation of writing but never meeting is more for the American men, the European men do much better, but of course travelling is a lot easier for them.

How do I encourage the ladies to continue writing, and convince them that I would be coming for a visit for sure?

Also with a $3,000+ ticket price, after she comes here, she would not be going back to visit too often.

[I/O]

How do I encourage the ladies to continue writing, and convince them that I would be coming for a visit for sure?

When are you going..........exactly?

Also with a $3,000+ ticket price, after she comes here, she would not be going back to visit too often.

Suck it up bro, we've been paying those sorts of numbers ever since I started travelling several years ago. Welcome to reality steet.

I/O

[ambach123]

Kiev, mid September.

[myrddin]

How do I encourage the ladies to continue writing, and convince them that I would be coming for a visit for sure?

I doubt you can overcome years of skepticism developed from experience, but once your ticket is confirmed you can tell them when you're scheduled to be there.

(I'm looking at a similar time frame, and I plan on booking that flight soon!)

[Gator]

How do I encourage the ladies to continue writing, and convince them that I would be coming for a visit for sure?

No offense intended, but this post and some others make you seem like a kid at an ice cream shop with 50 flavors to choose from while thinking about another ice cream shop across the street.  You have been corresponding for how long? 

I would like to get to know someone before meeting, but that seems to be difficult.

If so, why are you still writing?  Call them instead.  It is not that expensive with a card.  Spontaneous conversation will give you more insight than cut and paste emails.

I guarantee you that after several phone calls, your list of women to meet will be smaller.  And those on the smaller list will be convinced that you will make the trip.   

I always called after about 2-4 exchanges of emails.

Also with a $3,000+ ticket price, after she comes here, she would not be going back to visit too often.

If you marry, she will become your partner.  As such, she should decide with you how to spend the family income.  If it is a trip every year to Kiev rather than a new car, so be it.  You do want her to be happy!  And some of these women do wish to return every year, yet that desire wanes after a few years.

[ambach123]

Yes, there is a wide choice available, but as we all know that does not gurantee success.

Almost every experienced poster here has advised to take my time in this pursuit. Decisions made in haste are repented in leisure. For now I would simply sample the ice cream.

I have talked to every lady who wrote 2- 4 emails, on the phone. They all seemed interesting and interested, but eager to meet, and not eager to correspond.

One can tell abut someone when they talk the time to write; my experience is that they are not interested in writing.

[groovlstk]

Almost every experienced poster here has advised to take my time in this pursuit. Decisions made in haste are repented in leisure. For now I would simply sample the ice cream.

When you see advice here from experienced guys saying "take your time," it does not refer to letter-writing, but for actual courtship after you meet someone who tickles your fancy.

Get on a plane, 1 million letters are no substitute for what you'll learn by spending a week in Russia or Ukraine.

[IAmZon]

Make life changes to increase your income.

Add to your patients, and do not think of an outcome for at least 6 months after you meet many ladies.

AND, DUDE, can't you see the writing on the wall? Avoid the natural inclination to take photos and letters too seriously. 

There are many ways, and all work for some.  But, I remember a conversation I had with Gator where he observed this one guy combing a zillion agencies.  He allowed only brief and controlled introductions IN PERSON.  Then, and only then, he wrote.

Don't know what became of this chap ... but he seemed to have the methodology right.

[Ooooops]

I have talked to every lady who wrote 2- 4 emails, on the phone. They all seemed interesting and interested, but eager to meet, and not eager to correspond.

Eager to meet?   On your turf or theirs?   

[ambach123]

Theirs.

[Gator]

There are many ways, and all work for some.  But, I remember a conversation I had with Gator where he observed this one guy combing a zillion agencies.  He allowed only brief and controlled introductions IN PERSON.  Then, and only then, he wrote.

Don't know what became of this chap ... but he seemed to have the methodology right.

I remember meeting this California man in Dnepropetrovsk at a marriage agency.  He landed in Ukraine having not written a single woman.  His only fixed plans - an apartment rented for a week.  Each day he visited each of the three large marriage agencies in the city, searched through UW profiles, have the agencies arrange a short meeting (4-6 meetings per day), and go from there.  If he discovered "chemistry", he had a follow up date yet still continued to comb through the profiles. 

Not my style but to each his own.

[Jet]

And some of these women do wish to return every year, yet that desire wanes after a few years.

Or not! 

[UTRO]

I remember meeting this California man in Dnepropetrovsk at a marriage agency.  He landed in Ukraine having not written a single woman.  His only fixed plans - an apartment rented for a week.  Each day he visited each of the three large marriage agencies in the city, searched through UW profiles, have the agencies arrange a short meeting (4-6 meetings per day), and go from there.  If he discovered "chemistry", he had a follow up date yet still continued to comb through the profiles. 

Not my style but to each his own.

Gator, This guy sounds like.......a "kid at an ice cream shop with 50 flavors to choose from". 

[UTRO]

I've got to ask everyone, how many Women can you write, ahem, 'Personalized Emails' to before you slip up and call that woman the wrong name.... or worse?!?

Ambach, you say you have, "problems maintaining the correspondence" and ask, "how do I encourage the ladies to continue writing, and convince them that I would be coming for a visit for sure."
Let me ask you this...

1. How 'Personal' are your Letters to these Ladies?
2. How Long are your Letters to these Ladies?
3. How Detailed are your Letters to these Ladies?
4. How Long do you wait, after receiving a Letter, before you write back to these Ladies??

I wrote very long drawn out letters to Lana, almost immediately after each long drawn out letter that she sent to me. She answered All of my questions and I hers. She melted when I sent her letters quickly because she knew I was very Sincere and really wanted to know about her. Can you do the same thing writing to 10 women at once? I think not! Now do you know why you might be, "having problems maintaining the correspondence"??? What do you think? Could it possibly be Your Problem, not theirs............

[I/O]

Kiev, mid September.

So there is no ticket booked and no exact date. Get a clue, if you are so vague here, you won't convince any woman who has seen a hundred punters say the same thing that you are serious. "I would like to meet you in XYZ cafe' at X address on X date at X time" might help. Try it an see if you don't get a very 'nother reaction.

You guys who fluff around, dreaming of meeting someone in some city, talk round and round in circles with these women, wonder why they don't take you seriously and then come looking for ideas are wasting your own time. Get specific, get direct and get to doing the business. Oh BTW, you might just have to get off your butt and do a little homework as to where you might find a cafe' in Kiev, there is only about 38000 of them IIRC.

I/O

[Taz]

Do multiple visits count as just one person or several?

I never really wrote before I went anyway. I'd prefer to meet and then write a woman. She is far more excited to meet a REAL man in the flesh than 100 VIRTUAL by email.

To me long drawn out correspondence is usually a waste of time. Things so often go belly-up in the first meeting. Of course even a first time golfer sometimes can hit a hole-in-one.

Writing to many women takes a ton of time too. Sometimes way too much for the ROI. Once you are focused on just one it is much easier. If I were to advise anyone I'd encourage them to not right anyone until they are about 3 months (max) away from their visit. Too long of a wait and everyone can lose interest.

[UTRO]

I guess that's where you and I disagree Taz..... I'd rather waste my Time sorting out who is who back home in the Americas via Email and Phone calls, than waste my Money flying half way around the world for a Boys Week Away hoping to find Ms Right during a brief translated meeting. All Women absolutely Love Personal Letters, etc..... I do insist on a meeting within 3 months of correspondence.
Hey, this is what works for me and I don't necessarily recommend it for everyone..... On the other hand.... hey, your adventures are nothing I can ever compare to and sound like a hoot!! Keep writing

[Taz]

I respect everyone's method. Problem is UNTIL you actually meet, you don't know if the person is real or not. It could be a fat Yuri. If you are going through an agency the risk might be less or it could be greater.

How can you really sort out until you have actually met the person? Ultimately you have to do what is best but how do you sort out a woman just by letters, emails and phone calls? Is that how you are going to interact with her when together? What if she isn't that adept at communicating through writing or if you are not? Nothing can be the right here, right now aspect of in an person meeting. All the other crap is VIRTUAL and is just an appetizer (at best) to the main course. That is why I took the time to learn Russian so I could avoid have to use a terp and it would improve my vacations in general.

Do what works for you but I've seen so many times I've seen so many long drawn out letter campaigns go up in smoke within 5 minutes of the first meeting. If there is no chemistry in person, there is nothing left. That is why I'd prefer to do the writing after the meeting. If it works for you then good luck.

I can typically tell within 5 minutes what could take months or weeks to find out via letters and calls.

[Gator]

Taz,

I understand and appreciate your point.  it works for you.  However, in my case I wanted to spend a few hours with a woman and experience her city with her.  Thus, I had to feel something before making a long date. 

Yet, I did it wrong the first time I went to Russia to meet women.  I spent a huge amount of time writing over 50 women!  I can not be too hard on myself because from that effort I met my wife. Nevertheless, what a waste.

I corresponded directly after having first purchased postal addresses from agencies.  Fortunately, most RW/UW had email, yet very few at home.  The effort of using an Internet Cafe was costing them time and money (neither of which were plentiful).  At the time I was unaware of the depth of their predicament.

One can easily understand how these women become jaded.  Yet, for most of them, hope springs eternal.

It was fun, and I must admit that the fun part was perhaps the primary motivation.   Yes, the kid in an ice cream shop.  I was not dating, having just suffered another failed AW relationship, so part of this was a fantasy of a solitary man (but not lonely).   Later, I felt bad for wasting the  time and money of so many.  

Thereafter, I relied on telephone calls.  Phone calls work fine.  For the women who struggle with English,  if they are personable and interesting, it somehow is conveyed.

[UTRO]

Hey, you have a Skill that I don't posess Taz! Or maybe I can see around the Bull*snip*? Who knows? There are no experts, just those who are in the right place at the right time!
I worked in Russia during the 90's as a Coach and Trainer. I know the mentality and culture
You are right Gator... it can be a waste.... but oh, when you catch that trophy!!!

[steviej]

I am corresponding with several ladies. I am having problems maintaining the correspondence. They are interested in a meeting ASAP. Some of them state that letter writing is not their thing since so few AM actually visit.

I think its probably true that very few men, compared to the number that flirt via email, actually visit. I have read that many are actually married men acting out virtual fantasies of wishing they were single and going to marry a beautiful russian woman, and lead these ladies on and build virtual relationships, except for one thing .. they don't have any intention of actually going. They really do not understand that these are real flesh and blood women with hopes, dreams, desires, and the belief that one of these men is really going to be the great husband she wants that she loves, and loves her back.

But I think there's no magic formula. It depends alot on the kind of man you are, and what suits you, your style. For example, I could never go on a "romance tour." I don't have the kind of personality to enter a room with many people and gracefully go around making introductions, making small talk, and making connections. Its just not my style. But I know one guy, thats how he met his wife. He went on a romance tour, met an extraordinary number of women, left with two that he would follow up with, and ended up marrying one of them, and they are very happy. I'm more the philosopher type, a little reserved on meeting, a private person (I am friendly), but I need something small scale. And guess what, my wife is a very intellectual, somewhat private person, and we've been happily married for 5+ years now. I probably took a little longer on correspondence than some, and I was very open, deep and detailed about all my feelings thoughts and desires. Likewise, it was the women of similar temperment that were enthralled with my letters, and I had serious correspondence with 3 of them, then down to two. I went on an extended visit to those two, but even then  I felt uncomfortable, like I was betraying the one with the other. That's just my temperment. I still feel there was something unfair about my taking the visit to two of them, even though from a practical standpoint, its makes lots of sense. And I'm sure I'm not the only man that met them, probably, also. One thing for sure though, you have to understand your style, and then cough up the money for it. If you are choking on what's best for your style, and the kind of woman you want to meet, because of money, you're in the wrong business. This is not for men with financial strains. This whole business is expensive, and continues to be, long after your wife arrives. That's one piece of advice I'd give. The expense doesn't end when she gets here. She needs everything, clothers for your area, shoes, medical care, a car, insurance, telephone bills, travel back home, etc. You do have to put your money where your mouth is in this business, and that starts right at the beginning, with the issue of travel. But, can this all end successfully? OMG! I feel I have the most amazing wife in the world, and the best relationship I ever could have hoped to have. Like many of the married men here, I feel I'm one of the luckiest men in the world, and finding the right RW is just an amazing experience and lifestyle. But you must know yourself. You can't be a "needy" man and hope for success here. Best of luck!

[Ooooops]

Theirs.

Then it's very legit.   They are not looking for pen pals, I assume... 

[GreginGa]

The problem is so many guys are content with exchanging emails with a picture of a good looking,long legged Russian or Ukrainian girl. Some snapperheads would just as soon sit at home and correspond. Thats why I say if it's not possible to get on a plane within 3 months then the guy should find another hobby. It's not fair to lead a girl on and make her spend her time and money on someone that only has hopes and fantasies of getting on a plane. Like I said 3 months tops.

[steviej]

... picture of a good looking,long legged Russian or Ukrainian girl... 

Boy, I agree with you there, Greg! I hadn't really noticed until I started going on my visits there. Then, in person, I started to realize that WOW, these ladies, many of them, have gorgeous legs Being a bit of a "leg man" myself, it was very appealing. For example, my wife, the first time we met in person, I almost dropped my jaw on the ground and stopped breathing :heartafire: I knew from her photos that, to my eye, she was pretty.  I mean, anyway, pretty enough for me to focus on the other things. But then the first time we met in person, she was just WAAAYY more beautiful in real, I was just flabergasted ! Maybe it has something to do with the long jet ride and lack of oxygen or something or maybe just the emotional intensity of the whole experience. I was just speechless  When I calmed down a little, I could tell she was very pleased that I was obviously more than satisfied with her appearance.  And its funny, I realize now, that in all the photos she ever sent me before, she always had on quite modest clothing, with longer skirts and pants. At the airport the first time, she was wearing an above-the-knee skirt, and she was just a knock-out in that skirt. I almost think that, given an AW and a RW the same height, that the waist on a RW tends to ride a bit higher, making the leg a bit longer. It could be a genetic thing with the Slavic women, for example. Or maybe its just because they walk a lot and know how to dress.

After having gone through all this, and married such a wonderful lady, I feel a certain loyalty to the FSU ladies, and I'd like to strangle any man that is writing to them, playing with them, and not sincerely committed to follow through on the whole process. They really deserve that from us

[Gator]

And its funny, I realize now, that in all the photos she ever sent me before, she always had on quite modest clothing, with longer skirts and pants.

This is typical for "good" RW.  They will not try to sell themselves with their body even if their body rates a "10."   For sure, they will not have revealing or provocative poses in their Internet profiles.  Stevie did not visit the women with alluring photos, and look what he found - a woman he is still crazy about after many years of marriage.


I almost think that, given an AW and a RW the same height, that the waist on a RW tends to ride a bit higher, making the leg a bit longer. It could be a genetic thing with the Slavic women, for example.

The legs on many of them go to their shoulders.  What puzzles me, where did they go?  If you look at RW over 50, very few have that same body, as if their legs shrunk.