Experiencing the Cinderella Complex: I married a FSU woman

[Maxx2]

GoUsa, you are right.  There are a lot of sad stories about AM who married a bad RW.    I just really have a very hard time based on what you have said so far putting your problems in the same category as those faced by Maxx.

Not trying to be the posterboy of crash-n-burns here. The difference is that Gousa's wife came here with good intentions. I once defined a Green Card Girl as a woman who enters a marriage with no intentions of making it work and then follows through. What Gousa can feel good about was that he wasn't deceived from the get go and played for a chump.

I read what ambach wrote about his expectation that his future wife work from day one. It jumped out at me. As Bluebell wrote that is impractical for the reasons she stated. Pretty much the first year is off the table.

Also if a second income is absolutely necessary to keeping a family budget afloat I would question bringing a woman over here at all. The prime reason why a marriage ends in divorce is because of lack of money. We should keep in mind that the cost of living (inflation rate) is rising rapidly and that it costs more and more to pay for life's necessities.    

Maxx

[gousa]

GoUSA has, through his last post, convinced me of something I thought was true, but wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.  Now he has removed from my mind any doubt about his ability or should I say, inability, to consider anything but his own needs.  I doubt now that counseling would make difference. He's convinced he is perfectly normal.  His last post is like the BBC in Europe when they show video without comment...none is required.  GoUSA's post speaks for itself. 

He might consider changing his screen name from GoUSA to GoOdin or GoAlone.  I hate to think of a good woman from any country having to suffer his narcissism.

She has removed from my mind any doubt about her ability or should I say, inability, to consider anything but her own needs.

She is perfectly convinced that she is normal.   I hate to think of a good man from any country having to suffer from her narcissism.

Ronnie, she created this monster just like I created her.    I had a completely different attitude before I met her.   I like your story.  You went through a dandy.

[Ronnie]

I've read with interest the differing perspectives on the FSU wife working in her new country.  While the perspectives appear to be in opposition to one another, they really are all correct for the person offering them.  Blues Fairy sees no reason a woman can't work right after a few months on the ground.  That assumes she can speak English well enough....some can, many can't.  My view of language learning is that it comes easy for some, very difficult for others.  Then there is the overriding question of children, home and hearth.

A woman should be no princess. She can and should (must) help in the support of the family, but not necessarily by taking a job outside the home, especially where there are children to be raised.  Delegating the responsibility of raising children to a nanny is never a good idea for a variety of proven reasons that we don't need to discuss here. 

It's sufficient to say that a woman who arises in the morning, prepares breakfast and bag lunches, while simultaneously, doing the heaps of laundry, then does the shopping for groceries, takes the car in for service, meets with teachers, delivers meals on wheels to shut-in seniors or helps as a candy striper (volunteer) at the hospital, then delivers and stays with the kids at soccer or baseball practice, arrives home just in time to prepare dinner, talks to her mother or sister on the phone a few minutes after dinner, helps with kids' homework assignments, then tries to keep the romance alive..is this woman not contributing and working?  Oh, and when would be her day off?

When I divorced my first wife - the woman who bore and raised my children..none of whom had any problems with the law or drugs - I happened to receive a smallish inheritance.  While I could have claimed it was mine legally and she had no right to it, the thought of acting so selfishly never entered my mind.  I gave it all to her, enough to allow her to go back to college full-time and my kids to finish college as well.  A substantial portion of my income went to their support as well.   

When she finished college and took a job and the kids were working as well, I asked for an end to the support.  She refused so we went to court.  After hearing all that had taken place, the judge reprimanded my ex and her attorney (actually sanctioned the attorney for proffering false testimony).  The judge told her.."Ms Xxxxx, you have been dishonest with the court.  And, it's clear you've been living a higher lifestyle after your divorce than during your marriage..  This is the first time I have seen such a situation!  I'm ordering all support terminated three months from today."

Granted, my ex was not a new wife and I did feel an obligation to support her until she could become marketable in the economy.  FWIW, she now earns more than her new husband.

So why did I divorce her, you might be wondering.  It was what the judge saw - dishonesty.  But for me, it was dishonesty combined with a devotion to religion that forced me to live with a raging hypocrite.  It grated on my sensibilities and left me troubled and feeling bound up by my marriage vows. 

It was my own mother's passing that made me realize how short life is and I knew I couldn't live the remainder of mine in such a condition.  I made the error of marrying again too soon and literally wasted 9 more years with a very beautiful woman who attracted men.  I'll say no more on that.

I took an interest in GoUSA's story because of certain similarities, but as you can see, we approach matters of money from a wholly different perspective.

[BC]

A woman should be no Princess..she can and should help in the support of the family, but not necessarily by taking a job outside the home, especially where there are children to be raised.  Delegating the responsibility of raising children to a nanny is never a good idea for a variety of proven reasons that we don't need to discuss here. 

It's sufficient to say that a woman who arises in the morning, prepares breakfast and bag lunches, while simultaneously, doing the heaps of laundry, then does the shopping for groceries, takes the car in for service, meets with teachers, delivers meals on wheels to shut-in seniors or helps as a candy striper (volunteer) at the hospital, then delivers and stays with the kids at soccer or baseball practice, arrives home just in time to prepare dinner, talks to her mother or sister on the phone a few minutes after dinner, helps with kids' homework assignments, then tries to keep the romance alive..is this woman not contributing and working?  Oh, and when would be her day off?

amen to that.

Good post summing things up Ronnie.

Your handling of big 'D' seems close to the 'high road' approach I also favored back then regardless of what the ex did or threatened.  The additional costs were far less than giving it away to lawyers.  I slept well knowing I did the best possible for the kids and they hold that in high regard today.

[gousa]

GoUSA,
lots of degrees but not much desire to work,
Worries non stop about protecting his inheritance but not about a happy marriage.
Very limited effort at helping her adapt to a new life,
Living a life that would not be acceptable to most RW, IE shopping at Goodwill.
Set up a domestic abuse trap for her even though he was not abused.
Lots more that I won't repeat.

Score GoUSA 1 (I am not sure for what)

Cinderella,

Provided great sex, kept a clean house and cooked for the first year.
Did not file domestic abuse charges.  (you can file counter charges, she didn't)
Tried desperately to make the marriage work, even holding onto you clothes.
Was accepting of a life most RW would walk away from in a heartbeat.
Worked at the same point in time most RW do.
Was demanding but no real explanation of what she demanded,

Score for Cinderella 9   I will take one off because she was demanding,
(probably to shop at WalMart not Goodwill. )

Cinderellla
No desire to work.
Worries non stop about marrying his inheritance but not about a happy marriage.
Very limited effort at helping herself adapt to a new life.
Living a spoiled life that would not be acceptable.
Set up a domestic abuse trap for her provider even though she was not abused.
Lots more that I won't repeat.

ME:
Provided sex, provided multiple houses and everything else.
Beat her in a race to the police station.
Tried desperately to make the marriage work, even holding onto her ego.
Was accepting of a life most AM would walk away from in a heartbeat.
Worked at trying to satisfy the unsatisfiable.
Demanded that she work to help pay some taxes.

I did my own laundry.   I didn't like the way she did laundry.
I tried to conive a two way relationship which was impossible in this case.

I can't even begin to list the everyday things I did for her.  I'm trying not to be a narcissist.

[BC]

Set up a domestic abuse trap for her provider even though she was not abused.
Lots more that I won't repeat.

....

Beat her in a race to the police station.

I know I promised not to badger.. but you do keep bringing it up..

Was this before or after you left her or she new things were rapidly degrading and contacted a legal advisor?

I'm truly interested.. do tell us more about this 'trap' she and her lawyer set up..

[gousa]

Oh crap...!!! I just came in and saw gousa's last post. I take back anything I said in his favour, reading the opening two sentences was where I finished. The guy is an.............just for the Mods benefit, I'll leave you to fill in the gap.

gousa, go back huntin' dem squirrels and pillin' up logs. Do the world a favour and stay away from anything female, much less women...........forever!! You pissed a bit of gandpappy's money up against the wall on a fettish. Get over it...!!

I/O

My choice ws to submit or bring arms to bear.    
Once in a while I develop an attitude.  I wasn't such a devil a few years ago.
I guess thanks to anyone for any statments in my favor.   I spend a lot of time in self defense mode and I miss the good things said about me.    Methinks the best defense is
a good offense sometimes.

[Turboguy]

Let's see,

Cinderella,  
No desire to work (sorta ran in the family didn't it)
Worries about the inheritance.  (and you didn't)
Leading a spoiled life  (The trailer park? or the $ 10,000 car?)
Setting up a domestic abuse trap (humm, that is why she was charged)

GoUsa,
Provided Sex,  Gosh what a sacrifice?  I am sure you could have found volunteers to releave you of the duty.
Beat her in a race.   We don't know for a fact she entered the race.
Holding onto her ego.   How do you hold onto an Ego?
Yep, most American men would have walked away... to the employment office, got a job and lived a normal life.
Worked at satisfying,  Ah, sure, I have not seen that yet.
Demanded she work.  Personally I think you should have gotten the job first.

Did your own laundry because you didn't like the way she did it.  OK, sounds to me like that was your choice.  

[Ronnie]

Gousa,

When I realized that my first wife was going to fight tooth and nail to keep the money coming, I hired a lawyer...in fact I went through three, firing each for failure to prepare properly for appearance at hearings.  I lost some early rounds because they did not take the time to study the factual issues...and the facts were my greatest ally.

I finally decided I would have to act as my own attorney.  I didn't know the law back then but I knew the facts and I could read and had access to law libraries so I knew I could learn enough to represent myself.  I'm convinced that the adage that he who acts as his own attorney has a fool for a client is one devised by attorneys.

Getting to my point about you.. I read everything I could get my hands on about representing oneself, the rules of evidence, courtroom procedures and how to present cases to judges and juries written by some of the best including Gerry Spence.   

Here's a tip.  In presenting your case, bring out the facts that best support the conclusion you want the jury to reach.  Do not make conclusory comments, such as "she was a gold digger" or "he was greedy and selfish."  Present the facts in a neutral way and let the judge or jury draw there own conclusions.  It's a form of salesmanship.

Also, it's important to know when to sit down and not over argue.   This is the tough one for me. 

You, my friend, have broken all the rules in presenting your case to this "jury." You had some measure of sympathy at first but then you squandered it with your one note samba and preference for conclusions over facts.

Do try to take something from this experience as well.

Good luck

[groovlstk]

I did my own laundry.   I didn't like the way she did laundry.

Hmm, now that would contradict one of your earlier posts:

This woman used me as her hobby.  It was my job to serve her.   There was no time for anything with her around.  She never had anything to do.  She did some cleaning and took care of laundry fairly well but that was all.

 

[Ronnie]

Nice Catch Groov.  That's one of the pitfalls of over arguing, especially if you are playing fast and loose with the facts.

[gousa]

I know I promised not to badger.. but you do keep bringing it up..

Was this before or after you left her or she new things were rapidly degrading and contacted a legal advisor?

I'm truly interested.. do tell us more about this 'trap' she and her lawyer set up..

You can get someone in trouble if you stand in the doorway like a linebacker
and block them as they come out.   That way they have to move you and if you get a mark on you you can claim domestic abuse.  I think she knew that I would not submit to containment.

 After an argument over my assets I announced that I was leaving for the evening, and maybe permanently.  I was  in my office in the new house.   She stood in the doorway.   I said "You better move because I'm coming through.".  She braced herself for the impact.    I had to push my way out of the office.   She grabbed my shirt and held on for dear life.   I said,  "What the hell are you doing?  You are getting close to getting some rough treatment here."   I pushed her onto the sofa where the sofa bent her kness and she gently settled down onto the sofa, which incidently was a nice blue leather one that I had bought at her demand.    She was still holding on to my shirt and she said,"Yes BEAT ME PLEASE BEAT ME!"   I pried her hands off my ripped shirt and said, "This is crazy."   She was unsuccessfull at getting me to beat her so she started sobbing.  I called her a sick bitch and got in my car and drove away for the night.   The next morning I came back hoping for a truce.  As soon as she saw me she dropped the phone in surprise and I believe she was speaking with her attorney.   She said, " I have a mark where you pushed me and I have been talking to the police."  I said, "Oh really, we'll see about that."  She had a red spot between her breasts on her breastbone where I had placed my hand to push her.   The breastbone is the best place to push someone if you think you have to.

I went to the police station and asked if there were any reports on me.  They said no.
I said, "Good, I'm filing one right now."  I lost my patience at that point filed a containment complaint, which is also a felony.  I had some scratches on my face from the struggle and my ripped shirt as evidence.     I then proceeded to finalize the divorce, which came a couple weeks later.    These were the last weeks of the marriage.

This had been the third violent confrontation.   The first one was initiated by her, the second was a horse apiece.   It just wasn't safe to live with her anymore.
  

[BC]

You, my friend, have broken all the rules in presenting your case to this "you" had some measure of sympathy at first but then you squandered it with your one note samba and preference for conclusions over facts.

Considering that we've heard so far only one side of the story your conclusions bear quite a bit of weight.

If a fairy wished me three jobs, each for a day I think I would choose CO at the consulate for K visa cases, judge at a AM/RW divorce, and the last bartender at a RW social.

While posting I saw the 'Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.' , the last of which really, really turned my stomach.. I think I'm outta here lest I violate Dan's guide on civil discourse.

edit:

You are getting close to getting some rough treatment here.

.. says it all IMHO.. so the 'finale' was only a matter of time.. sick sick sick...

besides frequent flyer miles I really do have to start saving the barf bags. (sorry Dan)

[gousa]

Gousa,

Here's a tip.  In presenting your case, bring out the facts that best support the conclusion you want the jury to reach.  Do not make conclusory comments, such as "she was a gold digger" or "he was greedy and selfish."  Present the facts in a neutral way and let the judge or jury draw there own conclusions.  It's a form of salesmanship.

Also, it's important to know when to sit down and not over argue.   This is the tough one for me. 

You, my friend, have broken all the rules in presenting your case to this "jury." You had some measure of sympathy at first but then you squandered it with your one note samba and preference for conclusions over facts.

Do try to take something from this experience as well.

Good luck

Thanks, sorry about the one note samba.  I can present examples but there are so many they  just falls into huge genaralities when I start describing things.  This is my first jury so I'm sure there are fundamental mistakes in my presentation.

[Ronnie]

After an argument over my assets

Sad.

My friend, your inexperience with women is completely responsible for the events you describe.   You didn't have an argument over "your assets"  you argued over her security and happiness, since they were one and the same.  You really think you can do that and not raise a woman to hysterics?   

Women are emotional creatures and much driven by survival instinct especially when she's mother.  She can quickly become combative when you feed the fire as you did.  You're not to be faulted for mishandling the situation...you made a mistake due to lack of experience and years of focus on self.  But you can be faulted for continuing to be incorrigible. 

Is there nothing that has been posted here that gives you pause?

[Turboguy]

The breastbone is the best place to push someone if you think you have to.

I never thought I had to push a woman.  Why in the world would I want to know where to push a woman?  

Go, you got lucky because your behaviour was clear cut abuse and violence towards a woman.    I hear that if a man bitches about the expense of his wife calling home it can be considered abuse.   To me that might be pretty questionable but what you did is not at all questionable.   It's bad.   You are lucky you didn't end up in jail.  

[OlgaH]

    She was still holding on to my shirt and she said,"Yes BEAT ME PLEASE BEAT ME!"   I pried her hands off my ripped shirt and said, "This is crazy."   

In Russia I was a witness the similar story.

I was going upstairs to the apartments of my girlfriend, when I heard a woman was screaming and yelling behind one of the doors. She was calling a man with different nasty names and  than I heard a sound of crashing. Then the woman started to scream "Now beat me! Yes, beat me". I took my cell phone and was going to call to police, but the door was opened and I saw a man in ragged shirt and with bleeding scratches on his face and arms. He said exactly the same words passing me "This is crazy!". After some seconds the woman with very angry face showed herself in doorway and she threw a big vase at the man coming downstairs...    Honestly  I just ran away... to the apartments of my girlfriend...   

[gousa]

I could argue some more but I think I'll stop overarguing now.
The Kama Sutra tells men how to push.

[Ronnie]

I could argue some more but I think I'll stop overarguing now.
The Kama Sutra tells men how to push.

Ahhh... Indian customs.  Here's one that might suit you better.  Bookmark it for next time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_burning

[gousa]

Ahhh... Indian customs.  Here's one that might suit you better.  Bookmark it for next time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_burning

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husband_abuse#Violence_against_men

According to a 2007 study by researchers with the Centers for Disease Control, women are slightly more likely to be victimized by non-reciprocal violence and men are slightly more likely to be victimized by reciprocal violence. The study also found that almost three quarters of non-reciprocal violence is perpetrated by women. Additonally, women are more likely to be injured in non-reciprocal violence and men are more likely to be injured by reciprocal violence.[27]

While feminist groups and scholars have proven that domestic violence against women is indeed a social problem worthy of attention, some argue that there is conclusive data that domestic violence against men is a social problem also worthy of attention.[28] Each year there are over 3.2 million cases of men being assaulted by their intimate partner.[29] Far more men than women are arrested for domestic violence.[citation needed] However, in many cases of reciprocal violence, only the man is arrested.[30]

A new 2007-2008 study is being conducted by researchers at Clark University and Bridgewater State College that seeks to describe the experiences and health of men who have sustained partner violence in the past year.

[OlgaH]

  You are lucky you didn't end up in jail. 

(Just without any reference to the whole story) 

Situations in life can be very different. The best way for a man is run away if a woman tries to inflict physical injuries on him  , but if it is impossible it is better to know how to protect yourself from her attacks and push her off... if you don't want to be sent to jail for physical abuse 

[BC]

(Just without any reference to the whole story) 

Situations in life can be very different. The best way for a man is run away if a woman tries to inflict physical injuries on him  , but if it is impossible it is better to know how to protect yourself from her attacks and push her off... if you don't want to be sent to jail for physical abuse 

I don't think anyone that has been chopping wood since 14 would suffer any injury using legs.

[gousa]

I don't think anyone that has been chopping wood since 14 would suffer any injury using legs.

At fourteen I took a break from wood chopping and get the job at the fullserve gas stationstore.   I was a wood chopper already.     

  You are lucky you didn't end up in jail. 

Nuts.  I can say the same thing about her anytime.   I dropped the charges so she wouldn't have to go to the can.  After all I would have to bail her out.  She had been working for a few weeks before that.  By the way I manage now four pieces of property and there are seven buildings on those properties.    I do everything, maintenance, paperwork, plus manage my investments.   Ooops, she has to take care of her house now so that's only six.   With her around there wasn't much time for other jobs.  If we wanted to eat together I had to cook or get us both the car and drive and burn gas and go out for lunch AND dinner everyday.   The restaurant bills were about 5000.00 per year, mostly because I didn't go to expensive ones.

Ronnie,   she always knew that half of the marital house was a gift.  That's 75 grand minimum.   She and her attorney decided to shoot for the whole works and I wasn't going to submit to that ever.   

After that final battle my attorney advised me to have no further contact and I locked myself away in a condo that I had acquired as an investment and as a retreat.  By the way that was supposed to be divided also but I told everyone that I would fight the condo division forever so I blocked that one.  Unfortunatly she knew where the condo was and she stalked me ther for awhile but I never reported that either.   She did leave one message on the phone and  said that she would never need so much.  It was a nice message but I needed it on paper.   

It really doesn't matter what I say I will always be the bad guy in some peoples eyes.     In the end all I could say was no, no ,no and more no.

We separated after the divorce for four months over the summer.  When I came back in the fall she was waiting for me and she wanted to be together again.  I said OK.   We spent that winter together and she had been making a lot of money mistakes and spending too much which was her forte' so I gave her another 7500.00 cash to make up for dental bills.    I dumped her agian when I found that she had been doing a lot of dating on the side and her child was getting disrespectful.    She followed me around, pouting again for another two months  afterwards that but I never reported it.  I told her that my spirit was broken and I just couldn't do this anymore.    I gave it another four months separation and then she called me back and said she came back one more but didn't stay and I said that was okay.    If she doesn't find Mr. Perfect she can comeback if I don't have somebody else.    I've had a few options just not the right one,  which is probably her case as well.   But she can play the field now all she wants.  There's plenty of dudes out there.  Life's a cabaret, have a ball I say.
 

I see a little bit more my ex's side but now there was a beautiful young American paralegal who worked in my attorneys office.   She had a good boyfriend and they had a child.  She was afraid to marry him maybe because she had an inheritance or something she never let on to.  She witnessed and heard everything that went on for the last year of the marriage.   She was disgusted by my ex's antics and said that she had seen it all before, and that someday soon it was my obligation to myself to make a stand and stop giving in to my brat and start defending myself.   

[steviej]

Whooboy .... this is some thread. For the newbies, this is a gold mine touching on so many important elements.

Again, for you newbies, remember, a Russian woman is NOT a mid-western American  Protestant girl with a cute accent. She is a VERY different animal. In general (and I am generalizing, I know) a Russian woman is a much more complex combination of thoughts, feelings, reactions and needs to deal with. This is especially true because she's relocated half-way around the world. The potential for misreading each other's verbal and non-verbal clues is enormous. This then continues to escalate the responses of each in a cycle that can get out of control and blow up, as in Gousa's case. Gousa should marry a girl who is like a Moravian protestant girl in Pennsyvania of the early 1800s. They'd be in a groove with each other easily, I think. An RW was just from the wrong universe for him.

You might say, Stevie, if you think life will be simpler and perhaps more pleasant with a Mid-western Protestant girl, why did you end up marrying a Russian girl? I can tell you in a word: my wife is electrifying. It's an RW quality that I've just never been exposed to in the same way with an American girl.

[Turboguy]

could use a little 'tweak'..

I think that was a good analysis Bluebell.  In my our case I am looking a paying for we are investing a years of eduction before VWRW brings home a paycheck and to be honest it is because it is what she wants.   If she told me she wanted to sit home and do nothing I would accept that because her happiness is what is important to me.   

Just a side note from an experience long ago.  I came home and my wife handed me the mail.. bills, statements, etc etc.. all dutifully opened.  For a split second I was dumbfounded, but luckily stepped back and reflected... The first words that had popped into mind was "My mail".. 

Consider it tweeked.  Good point.   I do think there can be my mail, her mail and our mail.  I would also think how a couple handles the finances would determine if bills and statements were his, hers or ours but in the end it is always ours.

GoUsa,  Just as yours made a nice gesture on the phone, I can remember my ex in the early parts of our divorce saying she didn't want anything just things to be over.   That sure didn't take long to go to where she just wanted 125% of everything.  Her idea of a fair distribution was she kept the assets and I kept the bills for the assets.  Perfect 50-50 split.