charmingbrides; siberianbrides mordinson.com are good or scam????

[fi3000]

Hello

I would like to now if anyone nows the agencys charmingbrides.com; siberianbrides and mordinson.com

Some have even videos of the ladies, like charmingbrides so i would like to now if they are real or just a new scam, before i travel to them

Regards
fi3000

[GoodBrew]

Skip Mordinson.  They want you to plan your whole trip through them.  IIRC they don't allow for walk ins.  You're better off running a newspaper ad in Kharkov if you want to meet sincere women.  JMO     

[Ben Armen]

I used Charming Brides when I was in Kharkov, I met my Tanya on the first meeting.  I heard mixed stories about them, but met my one.  Tanya's gf works there and I can help you along the city if you want to PM me.  I used Ukrainetour.com for an apartment and Vlad took good care of me and would recommend him to anybody, he knows the value of long term business.  Good luck in Kharkov, it's a beautiful city.

[juggernaut]

I have two suggestions for you:

1) Don't use any agency where you HAVE to use the agency for all communication with the woman you are interested in (personal experience here  )

2) Avoid the "socials" like the plague. 

[Ben Armen]

Good post,

social promoters Bragg how good they are but they just Jack you around.  When using an agency remeber rule #2.

[BillyB]

Hello

I would like to now if anyone nows the agencys charmingbrides.com; siberianbrides and mordinson.com

Before doing business with any company, Google the company name and the word "scam" to see if anything comes up. You might find questionable practices by any of those agencies or a rant from a disgruntled customer who didn't catch a woman. Make sure you're able to tell the difference

[Jack]

Hello fi3000, Charming Brides and Siberan Brides are two good agencies I would recommend.

I have two suggestions for you:
Avoid the "socials" like the plague. 

Good post,
social promoters Bragg how good they are but they just Jack you around. 

Hey Wesley,  maybe it would be more helpful to the members here if you could post of your experience with the socials.  I think the members would get more from your advice to avoid the socials if you could relay to them your actual experience.

And Ben maybe you could also pass on to the members here your own actual experience's as to how you were Jack'ed around at socials.

[Shadow]

Jack, I would have liked to give you a report by MrsShadow of a social. Unfortunately she decided to leave about 1 minute after entering the door, deciding that she did not want to be part of such an event.

As you are organiser of multiple such events, perhaps you can give us information on what type of men and women will benefit from a social, how you avoid the 'meat market' feeling and what is in your experience the success rate (number of men/women attended vs succesful relationships).

[Jack]

As you are organiser of multiple such events, perhaps you can give us information on what type of men and women will benefit from a social, how you avoid the 'meat market' feeling and what is in your experience the success rate (number of men/women attended vs succesful relationships).

Shadow, will be happy to do so, maybe in next few days, in a new thread. Don't want to get this particular thread hi-jacked.

As Wesley has advised to stay away from socials and Ben has indicated socials can jack you around, I was hoping they would share their experience's with the members.

[juggernaut]

Hi Jack,

How have you been?  I hope you are fully recovered from your illness last summer.  I would be glad to let you know my experience with socials.  I have none, zero, zilch.  I have never been interested in attending, I don't like the "round-up-the-cattle" atmosphere.  You told me yourself last summer before I made my trip to Kiev that you didn't like to call your parties socials because the good women tended to stay away.  Socials have developed the reputation for attracting prostitutes and professional daters.  If you feel that I was slighting you in any way I do apologize. 

JUGGERNAUT

[wendaaaal]

 About siberianbrides.com . I used them way back in 2001. Nice people, real girls, no problems at all. Just took a look at the site. Some of the girls and photos are unchanged since 2001! So, make sure any girls you're interested in have current photos. I would be wary of their girls from cities besides Novosibirsk. I don't expect they would know these girls very well, if at all. Also keep in mind the travel time to Novosibirsk (and the intendant jetlag!). It's a long way from most anywhere. I went through Europe on the way over, and came back via Beijing. Was quite an odyssey.
Cheers, Wendell in Austin

[Turboguy]

Hi Jack,

How have you been?  I hope you are fully recovered from your illness last summer.  I would be glad to let you know my experience with socials.  I have none, zero, zilch.  I have never been interested in attending, I don't like the "round-up-the-cattle" atmosphere.  You told me yourself last summer before I made my trip to Kiev that you didn't like to call your parties socials because the good women tended to stay away.  Socials have developed the reputation for attracting prostitutes and professional daters.  If you feel that I was slighting you in any way I do apologize. 

JUGGERNAUT

Juggernaut, I don't mean to continue this to be off topic and this has been discussed a few times before.   I have done three big agency socials and one of Jack's trips.   I will agree with you totally about pro daters on the big agency socials.   I wasted tons of money and a few years chasing gals I met there who turned out to be pro daters.  To be honest I can't say I saw any prostitutes however except of course the hotel regulars. 

Jack does his partys a little different ( a lot different actually)  I don't think his parties really have pro daters or prostitutes.  There may be a few who are there for a party but most are sincere women looking for a good man.  I did a trip report on my trip with Jack if you want more details. 

I can't really say that I would suggest Jack's tour for someone who had made a dozen trips to the FSU to meet women and who had been a member here for years swapping ideas and learning success strategy's.   However for someone with little experience with traveling to the FSU, with using agencies, with meeting RW face to face I think the best thing they could ever do would be make a trip with Jack.   The education alone is worth the price of admission.   

Tours can be a lot of fun.  I have to say I enjoyed them all and have stayed friends with a number of the guys from my tours.  I would however never recommend a big agency tour to anyone but I think anyone going on Jacks tour would Bragg about the experience. 

[Ben Armen]

Well, not to doubt that there are satisfied customers, I wish I can say I am one, but cannot.  I wish to keep my experiences private, this is a forum that protects privacy, but I found that the women that are with Jack are pro-daters, I found several that actually have native bf's.  If you research the agencies he recommends they are questionable... some good some bad, but not two thumbs up.  I brought it to his attention and it was heard on deaf ears.  If you are a newbie, do not make the same mistake I made, it cost a lot of money to go on a trip, my recommendation is ask some of the non-commercial members where to go and take it from there.  IMHO you will have a better experience.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Jack]

Ben Armen, I will ask you to please prove or back-up what you are saying.

Actively trying to set my clients up with professional daters is something I will NEVER do and have NEVER done.

Ofcourse over time and with many clients they have shared with me their experience and as such I have learned of pro-daters. For you to say you told me of any pro-dater and it was heard on deaf ears is a complete fabrication on your part.

Please share with all the pro-daters you told me about.

[Jack]

Ohh, and while your at it, please share with all the agencies I recommend that are bad. It really is something you should do.

[Ben Armen]

Before doing business with any company, Google the company name and the word "scam" to see if anything comes up. You might find questionable practices by any of those agencies or a rant from a disgruntled customer who didn't catch a woman. Make sure you're able to tell the difference

Jack, 2 agencies you recommend are Cindy and Charming Brides...

http://www.agencyscams.com/Why/Cindy.html

Charming Brides is rated as a Gold agency, this IMO is overrated.  They are ok, I have seen better.  I have seen complaints by other men who received letters from girls who did not wrote these letters.  This was first hand in Kharkov. 

If you research the agencies he recommends they are questionable... some good some bad, but not two thumbs up.  If you are a newbie, do not make the same mistake I made, it cost a lot of money to go on a trip, my recommendation is ask some of the non-commercial members where to go and take it from there.  IMHO you will have a better experience.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Like I mentioned before I would not give two thumbs up, more thump up and thumb down, equivilent to a yellow light.  Questionable is not outright scam.

Jack just because I will not give specifics, b/c I like my privacy does not mean it did not happen and is not a fabrication.  I am sorry, but newbies are better off going elsewhere to learn about the Ukraine!!!

[ConnerVT]

Gee, Ben, you can't have it both ways.  To make an accusation of someone in a public forum, you give up any claim to privacy.

Would it be correct to say: "I know Ben tortures kittens and puppies, but I don't wish to say any more, because I like my privacy..."?

[Jack]

Ben Armen, of course you are entitled to your privacy however when one makes satirize statements about another person that person certainly has the rights to ask for clarification. Ben Armen no client has ever told me about pro-daters that he ran across in which I was part of the introduction process that I did not inquire further about.

Absolutely, I have met pro-daters myself. Regrettably I have even helped to facilitate the meetings of good guys with pro-daters. It's going to happen, especially in Kiev, Odessa, Moscow, St. Pete, but it can happen in any FSU city, especially with the more youthful, beautiful women that many men seem to fall for.  When I am told of any such situation I react. Let's notify the agency this woman is involved with of her actions and make sure this woman is never introduced to another Firstdream client. Ben Armen, this happens maybe a couple times a month. But for you to say you told me about such a situation, and it fell on deaf ears, I think is a fabrication on your part and I would like for us to discuss this publicly as you made your, what I think is a libelous statement, publicly. All I ask is for you to tell the membership when you told me this information, where was I, where were you? What time, what city, and who were the pro-daters I set you up with. I kinda feel like you have an obligation to share with others about these pro-daters and women whom you know to have serious relationships with local boyfriends. Don't you?

Ben Armen, a week or two ago you stated that social promoters just Jack you around.

By this statement you sounded like a man with some experience, and a negative experience at that with regards to socials. I think newby's can learn so much more from a man's real life experience, what he actually saw and witnessed, so I asked you if you would share the experience you had with socials.

You went silent, nothing from you. 

Why would you not share of your negative experience, if indeed you had such experience. Or maybe you had no actual experience of any type social and you were just repeating what you heard.  That's ok if it's just what you have heard, I would just like to clarify for the sake of newby's that you were basing your advice on hearsay and not actual experience.

Now after Turbo posted of his positive experience attending one of our tours, you wrote you wished you could say the same, that you were also satisfied with your experience with us, but you cannot. Instead you write that the women who are with me, and we have now over 2800 ladies, are pro-daters.  And you found several of our ladies that had native (local) boyfriends.

You wrote that several of the agencies I recommend are questionable. Ben Armen, I am not perfect, I make mistakes, PLEASE for the sake of all the other members and newby's who read this board, PLEASE share with them, tell them who these bad agencies are. I don't want to work with bad agencies. Maybe you know something I do not. If your going to say such a thing openly and that I work with bad agencies, then you should openly share who these bad agencies are. Or is this a secret?  Why would you want to keep such information a secret?  If I am recommending a bad agency, as you say I am, then please tell us who these bad agencies are.  Share the negative experience you have had with bad agencies with others.

You write that the agencies I recommend are not two thumbs up but yet you highly recommend 5 Stars, an agency I have recommended. Why is it this agency would not be a two thumbs up if you highly recommend them? I have also recommended Charming Brides, I work closely with Charming Brides and have for five years, and this is where you found your fiancée.  You think Charming Brides is also not a two thumbs up?  I have never had any reason to ever expect scam, to ever expect writing false letters as you are indicating.  Maybe they are one of the bad agencies I work with that you are referring to?

Your trying to tell me Cindy agency is bad due to a report from Jim's List?  Haaaa! Ben Armen, all this means is that the Cindy agency did not pay Jim to be listed. Ben Armen if your going to tell me an agency is bad your going to have to have something besides being listed on Jim's site. I personally know of good agencies that have been listed as bad from this site, AND bad agencies listed as good on this site.  Ben Armen, do you have actual knowledge and experience with agencies that you are saying are bad that I recommend?  Not hearsay Ben Armen, actual knowledge or experience. 

You write that you told me about pro-daters that are with my agency and it was heard on deaf ears.  I always listen to clients with what they have to say about woman they see. It is one of the reasons I feel I am somewhat knowledgeable as to a great many women in the several cities I visit each year as well some of the many cities we send and support clients in.  When I am told something about this woman, or that woman, and it's something not so good, I tell the agency owner that they cannot introduce that woman to another Firstdream client. And once I get two confirmed reports I recommend the agency to consider removing this woman from the site. If you told me of any pro-daters I would have done the same if I believed you were being truthful.

Speaking of being truthful.  You write that you wish you could write of your good experience with me and of the pro-daters I introduced you to.

I would like to ask you about this. Some of the things you have written on RWD are not exactly adding up. And this is not private information here, these questions are all based on what you have previously publicly written.

You have written that as of today you have made 5 trips to Ukraine.

You wrote that your first two trips were WOVO and you came away empty handed. 

Your third trip was a WMVM and you came away with a very nice girl (Sveta) in Dnepropetrovsk.

One month later, in late December, on your fourth trip, you spent with Sveta over New Years, and as you two were saying good-by to each other, you caught her stocking up on condoms. Not good.

Your next trip, trip number 5, was a 3 city trip where you spent 3 days in Kiev with a lady from Sevastopol, then you went to Kharkov where you say you found your current fiancée and the woman you are going to marry with the help of, as you say, suspect agency Charming Brides. But you had to make sure she was the right one so you left Kharkov for Dnepropetrovsk to spend a few days with another one woman, you two did not hit it off with this Dneprop woman so you knew for sure you had better take the woman from Kharkov.

Ben Armen, I don't usually work with men who WOVO. I feel it's pretty much a waste of my time and the man's time.  Sure, I'll greet a man at the airport or train station, get him a good priced flat in the center of the center and an interpreter, but that's about all the help a wovo guy will need from me. As you state I introduced you to a lot of pro-daters and your first two trips were WOVO, you weren't involved with me on those trips.

On your trip number 3 you came away with a very nice girl from Dnepropetrovsk as you wrote. You WMVM on this trip, which was in November. I was not in Ukraine in November, had no tour in November, you did not tell me about the pro-daters I had set you up with in November.

Trip number 4 in late December, first of January, was to spend more time with Sveta. You spent all your time with Sveta, no time for pro-daters.

Trip number 5 you set aside three days for lady from Sevastopol that you met in Kiev, you spent time with your fiancée in Kharkov, you meet another girl in Dnepropetrovsk.   

Ben Armen, can you tell me which of your five previous trips did I set you up with pro-daters and you told me about these pro-daters?

[juggernaut]

Juggernaut, I don't mean to continue this to be off topic and this has been discussed a few times before.   I have done three big agency socials and one of Jack's trips.   I will agree with you totally about pro daters on the big agency socials.   I wasted tons of money and a few years chasing gals I met there who turned out to be pro daters.  To be honest I can't say I saw any prostitutes however except of course the hotel regulars. 

Jack does his partys a little different ( a lot different actually)  I don't think his parties really have pro daters or prostitutes.  There may be a few who are there for a party but most are sincere women looking for a good man.  I did a trip report on my trip with Jack if you want more details. 
 

Hi Turboguy,

I was referring to the socials conducted by agencies such as AFA in my original post.  Yes, Jack has a different format.  When I asked for his help last September, we discussed an option of me joining his group going to Kharkov.  I picked out around 12 or 13 ladies from agencies to meet in Kharkov.  Unfortunately ( ), I decided to stay in Kiev.  Jack did everything I asked of him pertaining to my stay in Kiev.  If I decide to make another trip I am thinking about going on a one or two city romp with Jack to see if I have better luck.

Peace,
JUGGERNAUT

[Ben Armen]

fi3000,

I apologize about giving my opinion and turning it out to be a slugfest and going off topic.  Some commercial members are seeing me enough of a threat that hours were spent writing one of the largest replies on this site and taking the time to research every post I ever made.  Thanks Jack for rewriting my posts and summarizing my trips.  If you want a job of a ghost writer I will give you one.

ConnerVT, you are right.  I can't have it both ways.  I was not happy with my interactions with Jack.  IMHO I was Jacked, and I will keep that experience to myself.  Therefore I retract my personal attack on Jack.

Jack as far as agencies, I have stated in previous posts, that 5 stars lives up to its name and is very good.  You read my posts over and over I'm surprised you missed that.  I do not know much about rated sites such as Jim's list.  As far as recommending 5 stars, I don't look at your posts as much as you do mine, so I would not know if you recommend them or not.  I did refer to Jim's List when going to Kharkov, if you say they have to pay for a good rating, that is not much of a credible list and explanation of my "one Thumb" service at charming brides. 

GENERALLY SPEAKING there are several advantages to going to an agency alone as opposed to going to ANY tour (including private tours given by individual agencies)...

1)  Packages are more expensive than a la carte.  Some groups will give you all inclusive, some will make you pay for everything and you pay for coaching and a party.  The amount of extra money can easily add up to $1500-2000 just to say you are with a group.

2)  A la carte gives you more flexibility.  If you are in a multi-city tour and you meet "the One" you do not have the flexibility to change your itinerary.  Even with "a la carte" you may have problems, but if you book all your cities with one apartment agency they will give you less of a hassle because they will keep you for the same amount of days.  I found Ukrainetour.com to be very accommodating.

3) A la carte  lets you focus on individual meetings, that is how you will meet sincere ladies, a 60-90 minute cup of coffee with someone, and you will know if she is worth seeing in the future.  Go on 3-5 meetings a day, and reserve the last meeting...say 7pm for the second date with the group from night before.  Now you have dinner with a beautiful and qualified lady.  You do not need many of these dinners before you will find someone you want to build a relationship with.  Socials are a large group of women say 10 to 1 ratio.  But truth be told fi 3000, when you are on a page at any agency, you may choose only 1 in 10 that are listed on any page.  The girls at the party may be sincere and kind, but not your type, may be too old/young, smoker/nonsmoker, tall/short, kids/no kids, etc.  If you meet someone at an 8 minute session, what is the next step, you guessed it, 60-90 minutes of coffee.  Is that worth $3-400 a party, IMHO it is not. 

I am trying to help you have an enjoyable trip and avoid any mistakes that I made and the other posters made.  That is why this site is here.  This site is a lot like real life, the people who have experience and do not have a financial interest in you GENERALLY will give you better advice than the 300 pound loud used car salesman.  Best of luck on your trip and I look forward to you trip report.

Ben Armen

[ScottinCrimea]

Ben, Jack has asked some specific questions in response to your comments about him and has also caught some pretty serious inconsistencies in your posts and claims.  I think if you expect to have any credibility on this forum in the future, it would be advisable to respond rather than dancing around.

[Ben Armen]

Scott,

Jack wrote a book there, tell me what you feel was inconsistent and I will answer them.

Ben

[ScottinCrimea]

Ok,  Look back at the direct questions he asked you and simply answer them.  The inconsistency he pointed out is in your claims to have had dealings with him and his agency yet, as he points out, of the 5 trips you made, it seems there was no time when this could have happened. He detailed this quite nicely yet you avoided answering.

[Ben Armen]

Hi Scott,

I am sorry about that, it is true, I took a WOVO philosophy on my first two trips.  I did go into Ukraine for the first time with one woan in mind, unfortunately it did not work out and to make a long story short, through the help of Jack I met another lady.  It was a little of an up and down relationship but in the end I decided to make a second trip to see her again.  When I arrived I went in with no backup plan what so ever, and it was not a good situation.  She was IMHO a PD this is where I had direct contact with and explanation of my situation upon deaf ears.  I apologize for the lack of clarification.

Ben Armen

[Shadow]

Hi Scott,

I am sorry about that, it is true, I took a WOVO philosophy on my first two trips.  I did go into Ukraine for the first time with one woan in mind, unfortunately it did not work out and to make a long story short, through the help of Jack I met another lady.  It was a little of an up and down relationship but in the end I decided to make a second trip to see her again.  When I arrived I went in with no backup plan what so ever, and it was not a good situation.  She was IMHO a PD this is where I had direct contact with and explanation of my situation upon deaf ears.  I apologize for the lack of clarification.

Ben Armen

To summarize you feel sorry for not having a backup plan on your second trip to meet someone.
You met her with help from Jack on the first trip, went back alone and after that second trip formed the idea she was a PD, correct ?