Russia Invades Georgia !

[Admin]

With all eyes turned toward Beijing and the opening of the Olympic Games, Russia invades Georgia by land with troops and tanks, and by air!

Think coordination of the invasion with US focus (media) on Olympics is a coincidence?!?

Here is CNN's article on the invasion -- http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html

- Dan

[I/O]

Think coordination of the invasion with US focus (media) on Olympics is a coincidence?!?

Western Media might be accurate, Russia couldn't care less what US or US media thinks of it's actions.

I/O

[Admin]

Western Media might be accurate, Russia couldn't care less what US or US media thinks of it's actions.

I/O

It's hard to know for certain - but my guess is that the invasion has been planned for some time to be coordinated with the opening of the Olympic Games in Beijing. In that way, world and US attention is directed predominantly elsewhere, and it at least minimizes the media attention given to invasion of a sovereign nation. Something that would otherwise be headline news is then relegated to mid-page. I think Russia considers US opinion far more than the facade they show - and this is evidence of it.

But, as I wrote, that is merely my guess.

- Dan

[BC]

Analysts said that Georgia could be trying to seize an opportune moment — with world leaders focused on the start of the 2008 Olympics in Beijing this week — to reclaim the territory.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/world/europe/09georgia.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&em&oref=slogin

[kievstar]

Tension has been going on for awhile.  Might be good if USA sits this one out and let Russia lose another war like Afghanistan.  Russia has never been good when attacking more of a defensive type country.  I personally like when Ukraine and Russia have to spend money on non value added events.  Makes there economies weaker.  A weak Ukraine and Russia is good for the world plus men on this board.

[BC]

Tension has been going on for awhile.  Might be good if USA sits this one out and let Russia lose another war like Afghanistan.  Russia has never been good when attacking more of a defensive type country.  I personally like when Ukraine and Russia have to spend money on non value added events.  Makes there economies weaker.  A weak Ukraine and Russia is good for the world plus men on this board.

Yeah would indeed be good if the US sits this one out.  Don't want to create another Bin Laden, funded, taught, trained by good 'ol Uncle Sam do we?  Isn't it an interesting thought that he mainly targeted the US instead of Russia, his old foe?

There is a long record of these little countries giving both US and RU a difficult time.  The Russians at least can afford it without going into debt for trillions.  Maybe a few pipelines will get damaged or blocked raising market prices again so that the whole shebang will be paid for by you at the gas pump.  Gonna stop driving?  That would be putting money where mouth is.

Talking about a weak economy.... naaah.. ain't going there.

LOL

[Blues Fairy]

Russia has never been good when attacking more of a defensive type country. 

Georgia a defensive type country?!  You must be kidding.

[steviej]

Yeah would indeed be good if the US sits this one out. 

The amazing and ironic thing about that statement is, it shows you how war like, and what a militaristic bully, the US has become. None of this has anything to do with us. Not Vietnam, Not Korea, Not Iraq, Not Iran, Not Georgia ..... whew .... don't get me started ...  :burnedup:

[diverboy70]

Tension has been going on for awhile.  Might be good if USA sits this one out and let Russia lose another war like Afghanistan.  Russia has never been good when attacking more of a defensive type country.  I personally like when Ukraine and Russia have to spend money on non value added events.  Makes there economies weaker.  A weak Ukraine and Russia is good for the world plus men on this board.

Thats just cynical!

And yes I think it is time for the US to sit this one out. Both the US and Russia/USSR have been involved in questionable wars, so I don't think you should get up on your high horses with this one!

[Ade]

Tension has been going on for awhile.  Might be good if USA sits this one out and let Russia lose another war like Afghanistan.  Russia has never been good when attacking more of a defensive type country.  I personally like when Ukraine and Russia have to spend money on non value added events.  Makes there economies weaker.  A weak Ukraine and Russia is good for the world plus men on this board.

A sick and twisted attitude. 

Strong economies are good for everyone and if you had any sense you would realize that. That is except for, as you say, desperate sad old men (probably like you) that can only get (young, pretty) women if they are desperate to get out of a poor social situation and who will settle for anyone that can provide a way out.

[wxman]

Georgia decided to start this mess by trying to reign in the region by force for the last few days. NATO and the US warned Georgia not to pull that stunt as they would not help Georgia. Now Georgia is finding out just what a big mistake they made.   

[2tallbill]

Georgia a defensive type country?!  You must be kidding.

I think that he meant that Georgia was an easily defended country protected
by mountains and very difficult to invade effectively.

But here I go again thinking I know what others are thinking,

[Maxx2]

This conflict has been building for a while. It involves the US/West desire to control the oil in Georgia and the missile defense shield that the US wants to deploy there. Russia does not want this. This war is really between Russia and the West with Georgia caught in between.
  
http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSL25932866
By Oleg Shchedrov

MOSCOW, April 25 (Reuters) - Russia warned on Friday it could use military force to protect its "compatriots" in Georgia's breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia if they were attacked.

Valery Kenyaikin, the Russian Foreign Ministry's special envoy for the ex-Soviet Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) said Moscow was "doing everything to avert a military scenario.

"But if a war is unleashed, we will have to defend our compatriots even through military means. We will use every means to do this"

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/russia_threatens123.html

February 8th, 2008
Russia’s military chief of staff General Yuri Baluyevsky threatened the use of nuclear weapons in case of a major threat. He said that, although they have no plans of attacking anyone, they nevertheless “consider it necessary for everyone around the world community to clearly understand, that to defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Russia and its allies, military forces will be used, including, preventively, the use of nuclear weapons.”

So what does America and Israel do?


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/07/15/6162566-ap.html

Georgia, US start military exercises despite tensions with Russia July 15, 2008

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Georgian and U.S. troops started a joint military exercise Tuesday amid growing tensions between the ex-Soviet republic and Russia[/b], a Georgian defense ministry official said.
About 1,200 U.S. servicemen and 800 Georgians will train for three weeks at the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, ministry spokesman Mindiya Arabuli said. He said the drills were planned months ago and are not related to recent tensions over two separatist Georgian regions that are backed by Moscow.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has courted the United States and sent a large contingent of troops to Iraq. His efforts to move Georgia from under Russia’s shadow and into NATO have angered Moscow, which has stepped up support for the breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
Also Tuesday, the Russian Defense Ministry started a military exercise in the nearby North Caucasus region. Ministry spokesman Yuri Ivanov said the drill had “nothing to do” with the Georgian-U.S. maneuvers.


http://www.nowpublic.com/world/us-runs-military-exercise-around-georgia-conflict

US runs military exercise around Georgia conflict
by Dave Keating | July 17, 2008

The conflict in the Caucasus country of Georgia is growing to alarming levels. The country is fighting with a break-away region in the North called Abkhazia, where an ethnic minority lives. The area is currently de-facto independent, and Russia is backing the area's claims to independence, although it's not really clear why. The US secretary of state Condoleeza Rice visited the country earlier this month, and now the US military is running exercises around the conflict. Could the US military be planning to get involved in this Caucasus conflict? The US would be supporting its pro-West ally Georgia, while Russia would be supporting the rebels. Not exactly a good idea geopolitically!


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25684774/

U.S.-Georgia training begins amid Russia strain

Officials: Exercises unrelated to friction between Moscow, ex-Soviet state

updated 10:34 a.m. CT, Tues., July. 15, 2008
VAZIANI, Georgia - One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.
Officials said the exercise, called "Immediate Response 2008," had been planned for months and was not linked to a stand-off between Moscow and Tbilisi over two Russian-backed separatists regions of Georgia.
The United States is an ally of Georgia and has irritated Russia by backing Tbilisi's bid to join the NATO military alliance


Leading to this...



http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report
August 8, 2008

Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax.

Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin threatened a “military response.”
Former Soviet Georgia called up its military reserves after Russian warplanes bombed its new positions in the renegade province.
In Moscow’s first response to the fall of Tskhinvali, president Dimitry Medvedev ordered the Russian army to prepare for a national emergency after calling the UN Security Council into emergency session early Friday.
Reinforcements were rushed to the Russian “peacekeeping force” present in the region to support the separatists.
Georgian tanks entered the capital after heavy overnight heavy aerial strikes, in which dozens of people were killed.

Last year, the Georgian president commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also offer instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel.
These advisers were undoubtedly deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to conquer the South Ossetian capital Friday.
In recent weeks, Moscow has repeatedly demanded that Jerusalem halt its military assistance to Georgia, finally threatening a crisis in bilateral relations. Israel responded by saying that the only assistance rendered Tbilisi was “defensive.”
This has not gone down well in the Kremlin. Therefore, as the military crisis intensifies in South Ossetia, Moscow may be expected to punish Israel for its intervention.
 
The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL8187260

Over 10 Russian peacekeepers killed in S.Ossetia-agencies

Fri Aug 8, 2008 9:30am EDT
 MOSCOW, August 8 (Reuters) - More than 10 Russian peacekeepers have been killed during fighting in Tskhinvali, the capital of Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia, news agencies quoted a top Russian military commander as saying on Friday.

"As a result of Georgian shelling more than 10 of our peacekeepers were killed and nearly 30 were wounded," deputy commander of ground forces Igor Konashenkov said. (Writing by Oleg Shchedrov)


  

Maxx



 

[wxman]

One country that will not take too kindly to this situation is China. The last thing they want is to have attention diverted away from the Olympics. They have worked too hard and for too long to have a conflict turn into a war, thus stealing some of the limelight from them. China has a very long memory, and Russia best be taking heed.

[Shadow]

Maxx seems to have gotten the story right.

Georgia got independence when the Soviet Union collapsed. However a province, South-Ossetia, which was 'given' to Georgia by Stalin did not agree with part. They have established autonomy, and have by a democratic referendum declared independence (Kosovo, anyone?).
Georgia does not want the gift of democracy in independence to be valid for their own people.

In order to prevent fighting between the 'rebels'  and Georgia, Russia has deployed a number of safety troops in the area.
With the eyes of the world onthe Olympics, Georgia has started an armed conflict with South-Ossetia, hoping to regain control of the area.
Russia has, before any military action, requested the UN to condemn Georgia.
When 10 Russian peace troopers were attacked and killed, Russia took action as they would not allow 'ethnic cleansing' by Georgia and attacks of Georgia on what they call 'their own citizens'.

It is easy to point to Russian, but if Serbia had attacked Kosovo or the UN troops there, they would have been regarded as offender and attacked by all NATO. In this, similar, case one should not look at Russia as agressor. They did all they could to avoid having to start an armed conflict.

If Georgia gets away with this, the next will be an attak at the Abchaz region, where a similar situation exists.

[beachcomber556]

What a terrible and senseless tragedy.  Two of closest friends in the world are Georgians.  They and their families live in Tblisi. They are as close to my heart as my own sister and brother.  They are both largely responsible for bringing Viktoriya and I together.  Regardless of who and why, all of the blaming and finger pointing on both sides will not put the Genie back in the bottle nor negate the cold reality that people are dying, maybe even our friends, Maia and Giorgi. All Vika and I can do is pray for them and for peace to return to their beloved homeland.  May God forgive the people responsible for all this.

[SANDRO43]

South-Ossetia... have established autonomy, and have by a democratic referendum declared independence (Kosovo, anyone?).

I read in the papers that 80% of their population is Russian rather than Georgian.

[steviej]

In the US papers today:

"U.S., Europe scramble to prevent Georgia-Russia war"

"US State Department highlights US Strategic interests in Georgia and Caspian ""

So, now the US also has strategic interests in the Caspian and Georgia ??? Doesn't anybody ever look at a globe anymore ?? The US is simply drunk with weapons, power, and foreign war. I am embarrassed that as a US citizen, my government (and even many citizens) think they have to stick their nose (and usually their guns) into everybody's business everywhere in the world.

This is a regional squabble between Georgia, South Ossetia, and Russia. It's nobody else's business. And by the way, if one of the states of the US decided they wanted to be a "break away" republic, what do you tihnk would happen? Do you think they'd be allowed to just vote for their indepedence ??     Thirteen states already tried that once. IT's called the Civil War.

Anything in the Caspian, especially Georgia, is predominantly, even if only, in Russia's business. Georgia wants to get their nose bloodied? Fine. Russia will oblige.

[Shadow]

Steviej if you want to get involved, read up on the history of the region. Problem is that almost nobody in the media will take that time to see where it started.
The US have interest in the gas pipeline from the Caspian sea to Turkey. It is about the only one not controlled by Gazprom in that area.
As usual the interest is about fuel...

[BC]

Of course there are US strategic interests.. Oil pipelines that bypass the Russians and promoting peculiar forms of democracy and freedom that seem to be failing at home.

Doesn't the US have military advisors and a few hundred troops to help train the Georgian military?  Doesn't this sound all so familiar?  What the bloody hell are they teaching?

Sure do pick strange bedfellows..Wonder how much US 'knowledge' is going into this spat.  Those in the administration now have egg on their face again... and no one notices.

[steviej]

Steviej if you want to get involved, read up on the history of the region. Problem is that almost nobody in the media will take that time to see where it started.
The US have interest in the gas pipeline from the Caspian sea to Turkey. It is about the only one not controlled by Gazprom in that area.
As usual the interest is about fuel...

I know quite a bit about the history of the region. Fuel ... yep.

[steviej]

Of course there are US strategic interests.. Oil pipelines that bypass the Russians and promoting peculiar forms of democracy and freedom that seem to be failing at home.

Doesn't the US have military advisors and a few hundred troops to help train the Georgian military?  Doesn't this sound all so familiar?  What the bloody hell are they teaching?

Sure do pick strange bedfellows..Wonder how much US 'knowledge' is going into this spat.  Those in the administration now have egg on their face again... and no one notices.

BC, are you an American ex-pat, or Italian citizen? You seem to understand the cynicism and insanity of contemporary US foreign policy. We've convinced the average guy in the US public that any possible economic connection is therefore immediately a "strategic" interest. And "strategic" means force of arms, or the threat thereof. Our enormous government, military, state departments, etc, are filled with greedy men, and men with severe penis complexes. These are the ones that rise to the top. I don't remember who said it, but someone said that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." The US is addicted to intervention and bullying. For some of the insiders, this is shrewd business. It's what Eisenhower warned against, the coming "military industrial complex". He realized that in the aftermath of WWII, there were large business interests, in conjunction with the military, that were in the business of war, wanted to stay in the business of war, and worked to create the illusion of strategic threats everywhere to justify our expenditures on military and war. Since WWII, the US has been at war more than any other nation in the world. But no one here in US cares because its' always somewhere else.

I'm sure Bush could make a speech that the US "must" help the "freedom fighters" in South Ossetia and "defend" the territorial integrity of Georgia, etc etc., and send US forces under the infamous "UN Banner" blah blah blah .... And would the average US citizen protest? Nope. What they wonder - what they hell are we doing over there .. ?? Nope.

[BC]

US military trainers not involved in Georgia conflict: military
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jjCNfv_hN7dzfcaXwielvnLpfRrA

Interesting tidbits..

The United States, European Union and NATO have led international calls for an immediate end to violence in South Ossetia amid fears of all-out war between Russia and Georgia.

The Georgian government said Friday it wants to bring home 1,000 troops from Iraq, and a US military official said the Pentagon has been asked for help in flying them home.

This is one to watch out for.. on one hand calling for an immediate end.. on the other (possibly) transporting a thousand US trained, battle hardened soldiers and probably their equipment into the fight at the expense of the US taxpayer and at the risk of US aircrews.

[diverboy70]

Steviej:

Interesting post! I think you are spot on in this post and in some other recent posts!

I think the US is one of the greatest countries in the world, at least it has been. Reading the triologi of Wilhelm Moberg of a Swedish family emigrating to the US in the early 19 th century you really get a good feeling of what the US was in the beginning and the big picture that has also been what have made your country so great!

Unfortenately you have had a really incompetent president for the last two terms that has been manipulated by the people that has a an interest in America beeing at war! The ones that had to pay the price for that is the avarage guy that has gone to war i a beliefe that he is doing the right thing!

The popularity of your country has also dropped to an all time low during the predidency of Bush. I think some surveys gave Obama about an 80 % support in Germany and about 90 % in Sweden and Finland. Off course it is not really our business, but it shows what most of the world thinks about Bush and his imperial politics.

Anyway, this is NOT an aggression towards the american citizens. But i think you have had a really bad president in Bush!

[kievstar]

Powerful countries have to be at war to stay powerful.  Just look at history.  When the USA is not involved in wars it will have lost its power.  Look at western Europe very weak countries now but in histroy they were involved in a lot of wars.  No one really listens to what France, Italy, Germany, Spain, etc thinks on the world level.  USA, Russia, China, etc get the attention now with threat of war and power.  Regarding Bush he ended the thought of  serious terrorsit acts in USA by attacking  Iraq and Afghanistan.  Powerful countries do not take shit. Do not expect Obama or MCCain to be weak.  When it comes to events which impact USA, the USA will be imposing its will.  It is normal to like the underdog, and that is why USA is not popular in the world.  I personally think its in the best interest of the USA that Georgia and Russia have a long expensive and bloody war.

Russia wants what it once had and taking over Georgia is part of that than Ukraine.  Than probably Belarus.  There was a reason Bush wanted some missile defense in Czech. 

That being said Georgia is no angel either.  War is just natural.  Always going to be wars going on. 

There was a comment about feeling sorry for the troops in Iraq for the USA.  USA does not have a draft and anybody in the armed forces knows what there getting into when they sign-up.  I am proud of our troops but their doing their job.  Feel sorry for Vietnam but nowadays if you do not want to fight do not sign up for the armed forces.

I have spent some time in Georgia and it has always been a very tense place.