Russia is at it again!

[Mishenka]

The main reason Putin decided to take Georgia?? To take "control" of the 4 UK (BP) /USA owned Pipelines that pump 1 million barrels of Caspian oil each day into the EU. Healthy profits for Gazprom, no doubt at a cheap cost. Serriously, if Putin continues his behaviour he will once again isolate Russia from the free world and cut off  all aid to Russia, trade to and from the EU, loose his position in the G8 and entry into the WTO. Well, he will loose that soon anyway with the new change in the White House.  To do this he had to kill thousands of beautiful people and destroy the Georgian military while he was "at it again".  Russia will continue to occupy Georgia until they reach their goal. Thier goal is "control".   Back to the old ways of USSR. I hear this is the new dream of many Russians,  "old USSR". Can you imagine dreaming of going back in time 80 years? I can't.  This is a sad state of afairs. Who is next on the Putin hit list? Poland? Czech? Ukraine? Belarus? Latvia? Take your pic. What's done is done. When the US/Poland/Czech missile defence system is built in place 2 years from now with Patriot missiles installed, there will be no threat of attack from Iran or Russia against the EU. Patriots never miss a target.  Rest in peace.

Mishenka

[OlgaH]

Yes that's right, but Catharine did not help us. According to the terms of the treaty she was obliged to help us but she did not accomplished it and finally you occupied us.
I said that perhaps these georgian works are translated as Kremlin want
 You want to give a wrong information to people who read these posts   But it's insensate, YOU HAVE LOST POLITICAL AND IFNORMATION WARS

Yes that's right that Russia won the war with Turkey and Russian army liberated Tbilisi (I'm very well know about that events), Russia saved  Georgia, Azrebaidzhan and Crimea from Turkey 

What exactly works are you talking about?

Lost political and information war? Please, Saakashvili's lies is not information it is just lies 

About political war:

Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe
Secretary General Marc Perrin de Brichambaut: ""The destiny of South Ossetia will be decided by the South Ossetian people, taking into account history and the present realities of life. It is also necessary to take into account close cooperation and relations with North Ossetia."   

Warrior, I also can tell that you give absolutely wrong information and it is clear why. BTW when you started to feel that your statements are too weak and lack of objectiveness you simply debased yourself by gossiping and low accusations towards Russia 

   

[Mishenka]

Am I seeing double or does Olga resemble Galina?  sister? no, ,cousins? Maybe? I know she has cousins in Moscow.

[OlgaH]

As you know Lavrov told to Rice that Saakashvili should go, I think it's enough when the minister of foreign affairs of Russia talks about this, as in general diplomats are very discreet and their each word are told with a foresee.

Are you again gossiping?

Russia isn't actively trying to overthrow Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili but believes the situation would improve if he left power, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said here Tuesday.

"It would be best if he left," Lavrov told a news conference.

"But the claim that we have decided to overthrow him and only then end the military operation is nonsense," Lavrov said.

The Russian minister went on to say that Moscow was not interested in discussing the situation with the government of Georgia's pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili.

"I don't think Russia will feel like talking with Mr. Saakashvili after what he did to our citizens," Lavrov said.
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20080812%5CACQDJON200808120503DOWJONESDJONLINE000144.htm&&mypage=newsheadlines&title=UPDATE:%20Russia%20Foreign%20Min%20On%20Saakashvili:

The same thing he said on CNN 

Tbilisi axes last Russian TV channel
Georgia has pulled the plug on the last Russian-language television channel broadcasting in the country. RTVi was closed after it broadcast an interview with the Russian Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov.

The closure was reported by Russian radio channel, Ekho Moskvy, an affiliate of RTVi. Its Chief Editor, Aleksey Venediktov, said the ban was an attempt by the Georgian government “to conceal the truth from its citizens and to save face”. He said: “only authoritarian and totalitarian leaders are afraid of independent and professional media”.

Commenting on the development, Sergey Lavrov said Tbilisi had planned to shut Russian-language media outlets in advance.

”I heard that the US State Secretary, Ms Condoleezza Rice, said Russia wants to undermine democracy in Georgia, as if there were no facts this year showing there is no true democracy in Georgia. As if the Georgian leadership did not decide, soon after it started its aggression against South Ossetia, to shut down all Russian television channels in Georgia and to cut off access to Russian internet sites.”

The RTVi TV channel was the only one left after Georgia forced all Russian TV channels off air more than a week ago, when fighting broke out.
 
“But even this channel was shut down after it dared to air my interview with Radio Ekho Moskvy and Vesti 24,” Lavrov said. 

”So, judge for yourself about the situation with democracy in Georgia and who undermines this democracy,” he added.

Ordinary Georgians now only have one source of information on what’s going on inside their country and that’s state-run media. 

The country’s leader has made it clear which audience he’s targeting and which media he trusts the most.  He has appeared almost daily on Western news channels over the past two weeks.  And Georgia’s national TV stations have mirrored their foreign colleagues.   

Saakashvili is seen on Georgia’s national TV via CNN and translated into his native Georgian from English.  Since the offensive was launched, English appears to have become the president’s official language and the key weapon in his own battlefield - the media.

Click the VIDEO http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29205

[msmoby_ru]

The main reason Putin decided to take Georgia?? To take "control" of the 4 UK (BP) /USA owned Pipelines that pump 1 million barrels of Caspian oil each day into the EU. Healthy profits for Gazprom, no doubt at a cheap cost. Serriously, if Putin continues his behaviour he will once again isolate Russia from the free world and cut off  all aid to Russia, trade to and from the EU, loose his position in the G8 and entry into the WTO. Well, he will loose that soon anyway with the new change in the White House.  To do this he had to kill thousands of beautiful people and destroy the Georgian military while he was "at it again".  Russia will continue to occupy Georgia until they reach their goal. Thier goal is "control".   Back to the old ways of USSR. I hear this is the new dream of many Russians,  "old USSR". Can you imagine dreaming of going back in time 80 years? I can't.  This is a sad state of afairs. Who is next on the Putin hit list? Poland? Czech? Ukraine? Belarus? Latvia? Take your pic. What's done is done. When the US/Poland/Czech missile defence system is built in place 2 years from now with Patriot missiles installed, there will be no threat of attack from Iran or Russia against the EU. Patriots never miss a target.  Rest in peace.

Mishenka

A candidate for the daftest post in this thread and will be the quoted source of how Americans think.....by Russians who are depaerately seking a "win" in the propaganda war - which even Russia Today admits they're losing..

Was this intended for serious dicussion ?!

[msmoby_ru]

Are you again gossiping?

Russia isn't actively trying to overthrow Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili but believes the situation would improve if he left power, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said here Tuesday.

"It would be best if he left," Lavrov told a news conference.

"But the claim that we have decided to overthrow him and only then end the military operation is nonsense," Lavrov said.

The Russian minister went on to say that Moscow was not interested in discussing the situation with the government of Georgia's pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili.

"I don't think Russia will feel like talking with Mr. Saakashvili after what he did to our citizens," Lavrov said.
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20080812%5CACQDJON200808120503DOWJONESDJONLINE000144.htm&&mypage=newsheadlines&title=UPDATE:%20Russia%20Foreign%20Min%20On%20Saakashvili:

The same thing he said on CNN 

This is what makes me crazy..

 Saakashvili was elected DEMOCRATICALLY - elections were independently monitored .. Can we say the same for Russia ! ?  I have no doubt the the current leaders would have won, but mention Democracy to most Russians and they say it will never work in their country....

S.Ossetians and Abkhazians are NOT citizens of Russia - they were issued Russian passports... Russia states that these regions are still part of Georgia..Peace-keepers don't normally influence matters by handing out passports to regions of other nations...

[Ronnie]

S.Ossetians and Abkhazians are NOT citizens of Russia - they were issued Russian passports... Russia states that these regions are still part of Georgia..Peace-keepers don't normally influence matters by handing out passports to regions of other nations...

No, that is not something that peacekeepers do. 
Nor do they supply weapons to one side then prod that side to use them against the other side.  Nor do peacekeepers invade the country in with they are "keeping the peace".  Nor do peacekeepers make threats, nor do they refuse to return to where their were before the invasion.

Asking such a "peacekeeper" to keep the peace is like asking a wolf to watch over your children.

[Shadow]

Why do I have to substantiate it, Russians do not hide this fact. They say that it was done legally,  but no countries have a right to do this in another country.

Our Government minister, Yakobashvili was sent to tskhinvali on 7 August for the negotiations, but the separatists wrecked the talks. I told you Shadow you don't know nothing about the pre-surroundings, you payed attention after 8 August to this conflict.

 http://www.google.ge/search?hl=ka&q=three+hour+moratorium+in+south+ossetia&meta=  whatever language you want.

P.S Tskhinvali in Georgian means Hornbeam alley, if Russian say that this city is not Georgian, why it is called Tskhinvali?

Warrior you claim the passports were handed illegally. It it up to you to prove your claims.
I followed the developments from August 6, there for I am well aware of th developments.
In this it was clear that Georgia told to agree on negotiations, then launched an attack.

The moratorium you refer to was made on August 8 after the Russian troops had already reacted on the Georgian attack.


You may be proud of the Georgian history, but that does not give you the right to distort the truth.

[Shadow]

No, that is not something that peacekeepers do. 
Nor do they supply weapons to one side then prod that side to use them against the other side.  Nor do peacekeepers invade the country in with they are "keeping the peace".  Nor do peacekeepers make threats, nor do they refuse to return to where their were before the invasion.

Asking such a "peacekeeper" to keep the peace is like asking a wolf to watch over your children.

Then I assume that there will be no American made weapons found in former Yugoslavian republics, in Afhganistan or in Iraq.
After all a good peace keeper will not provide weapons where they are keeping the peace, will not invade countries, make threats or refuse to go away. 
It shows there are no good peace keepers.

[OlgaH]

This is what makes me crazy..

 Saakashvili was elected DEMOCRATICALLY - elections were independently monitored ..

Are you sure because the administration of Bush say so?

Boden: OSCE confirms rough falsifications at Georgian election

German diplomat Dieter Boden, head of the OSCE observation mission, has confirmed the facts of roughest violations and falsifications at the election in Georgia, having declared that the Electoral Commission of Georgia is dominated by "chaos".

Mr Boden has stated, as quoted by the Frankfurter Rundschau, that "the rough violations, negligence and facts of deliberate falsifications at tabulating votes at the election in Georgia," as reported by the OSCE observers, had indeed taken place.

As he noted, the Electoral Commission itself is disrupted with "chaos".

We remind you that the "Caucasian Knot" has already reported, with reference to the IA "News-Georgia" that Mr Boden had stated earlier that he found it necessary to study the violations that resulted in the incident on Tuesday, January 8, when Levan Gachechiladze, candidate for President from the United Opposition, and his close supporters from among the leaders of the opposition entered the office of Levan Tarkhnishvili, Chair of the Georgian CEC, and demanded to immediately react to facts of violations.

Dieter Boden has also noted that the information of the Georgian opposition about the violations during the early presidential election in Georgia will not change the already presented conclusion of international observers.

Earlier, the opposition in Georgia, which considers the outcomes of the presidential election on January 5 to be garbled and demands free access to live television, and which has announced the start of a hunger strike, postponed the action by 24 hours.
http://eng.kavkaz-uzel.ru/news/?srch_section1=engnews&srch_section2=eng_elect_geogia

[Misha]

Then I assume that there will be no American made weapons found in former Yugoslavian republics, in Afhganistan or in Iraq.
After all a good peace keeper will not provide weapons where they are keeping the peace, will not invade countries, make threats or refuse to go away. 
It shows there are no good peace keepers.

Well, in those decades spent as peacekeepers in Cyprus, Canada wasn't arming either the Greeks or Turks on the island of Cyprus. There are my similarities. Turkey was also seeking to protect its citizens and Turkey had also gone beyond its claimed objectives. Canada did manage to remain neutral and keep the two sides at peace. This is one account of that history: http://www.lermuseum.org/ler/mh/1945topresent/cyprus.html.

[Shadow]

Well, in those decades spent as peacekeepers in Cyprus, Canada wasn't arming either the Greeks or Turks on the island of Cyprus. There are my similarities. Turkey was also seeking to protect its citizens and Turkey had also gone beyond its claimed objectives. Canada did manage to remain neutral and keep the two sides at peace. This is one account of that history: http://www.lermuseum.org/ler/mh/1945topresent/cyprus.html.

Which internationally famous arms does Canada produce ?
Did th Greeks by any chance bought weapons from the same side as Canada was on ?

I could tell that the Dutch would also not arm any side in a conflict, but that would be because of lack of good suppliers in their territories.

[Ronnie]

Then I assume that there will be no American made weapons found in former Yugoslavian republics, in Afhganistan or in Iraq.
After all a good peace keeper will not provide weapons where they are keeping the peace, will not invade countries, make threats or refuse to go away. 
It shows there are no good peace keepers.

Shadow.  You're fond of bringing America into every question and stretching the facts of other situations to try to make it appear to justify the present one, so let's do that. ...please remind me of a time when all out war broke out while peacekeepers were in place...and where one of the "peacekeeper" nations was the main belligerent.

Tell me too of another situation where the country concerned asked the UN to replace one of the peacekeeper nations because of it's lack of impartiality in the matter.

I'm prepared to award you extra credit for creativity..

[Ronnie]

Are you sure because the administration of Bush say so?

Boden: OSCE confirms rough falsifications at Georgian election

German diplomat Dieter Boden, head of the OSCE observation mission, has confirmed the facts of roughest violations and falsifications at the election in Georgia, having declared that the Electoral Commission of Georgia is dominated by "chaos".

Mr Boden has stated, as quoted by the Frankfurter Rundschau, that "the rough violations, negligence and facts of deliberate falsifications at tabulating votes at the election in Georgia," as reported by the OSCE observers, had indeed taken place.

As he noted, the Electoral Commission itself is disrupted with "chaos".

We remind you that the "Caucasian Knot" has already reported, with reference to the IA "News-Georgia" that Mr Boden had stated earlier that he found it necessary to study the violations that resulted in the incident on Tuesday, January 8, when Levan Gachechiladze, candidate for President from the United Opposition, and his close supporters from among the leaders of the opposition entered the office of Levan Tarkhnishvili, Chair of the Georgian CEC, and demanded to immediately react to facts of violations.

Dieter Boden has also noted that the information of the Georgian opposition about the violations during the early presidential election in Georgia will not change the already presented conclusion of international observers.

Earlier, the opposition in Georgia, which considers the outcomes of the presidential election on January 5 to be garbled and demands free access to live television, and which has announced the start of a hunger strike, postponed the action by 24 hours.
http://eng.kavkaz-uzel.ru/news/?srch_section1=engnews&srch_section2=eng_elect_geogia

We had dinner last night with a AM/RW couple.  We discussed the present situation.  The RW swears that it's only the governments in Georgia, Ukraine, Czech Rep, Baltic states, etc., who are pro western while the People are pro Russia.

Olga, it appears you harbor the same fantasy.

[Shadow]

Shadow.  You're fond of bringing America into every question and stretching the facts of other situations to try to make it appear to justify the present one, so let's do that. ...please remind me of a time when all out war broke out while peacekeepers were in place...and where one of the "peacekeeper" nations was the main belligerent.

Tell me too of another situation where the country concerned asked the UN to replace one of the peacekeeper nations because of it's lack of impartiality in the matter.

I'm prepared to award you extra credit for creativity..

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE3D7163AF933A05756C0A963958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0DE2DE1E39F930A35751C1A963958260

Thanks for the credit.

[Misha]

Which internationally famous arms does Canada produce ?
Did th Greeks by any chance bought weapons from the same side as Canada was on ?

I could tell that the Dutch would also not arm any side in a conflict, but that would be because of lack of good suppliers in their territories.

And what difference does it make? Canada served two decades sending its peacekeepers to Cyprus. I believe history has shown the the outcome is good and that Canadian peacekeepers were better than would have been Turkish peacekeepers. I am amazed, however, the extent to which you will confuse issues simply to defend Russian actions.

[Shadow]

And what difference does it make? Canada served two decades sending its peacekeepers to Cyprus. I believe history has shown the the outcome is good and that Canadian peacekeepers were better than would have been Turkish peacekeepers. I am amazed, however, the extent to which you will confuse issues simply to defend Russian actions.

Its not about switching, but about the difference of a situation. If you need to buy weapons in Ossetia, which ones do you think are available ? Russian or American ?
Selling arms to those who want to have them is not a crime.

[Ronnie]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE3D7163AF933A05756C0A963958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0DE2DE1E39F930A35751C1A963958260

Thanks for the credit.

So in Bosnia which peacekeeper nation was one of the belligerents?  The Serbs taking Welch Fusiliers hostage..is that all out war involving the Brits?  Sorry but that story is a dud.

Your second example of the Bosnian saying they didn't trust the French is close to fulfilling your assignment and you do get an "A" for effort.  It had to just bring extreme pain to your little anti-American heart to read:

"We don't trust them and we think they will fail in implementing this agreement," said Hasan Muratovic, Minister for Relations with the United Nations. "Therefore, we are asking NATO to change the deployment plan so they are not the only force here. We would like Americans and may ask the French to leave entirely."

[Misha]

Its not about switching, but about the difference of a situation. If you need to buy weapons in Ossetia, which ones do you think are available ? Russian or American ?
Selling arms to those who want to have them is not a crime.

No, but it discredits you as an alleged neutral "peacekeeper."

[Shadow]

Ronnie, once again I am not anti-America just because I defend Russia's position in this. Please stop from trying to put that label on me.

Russia did not declare war on Georgia. It was the other way around.
That is, as far as I know, a unique situation. A country attacks peace keeping forces and when punished for the attack declares war on the peace keeping country. Perhaps anyone has an example on this ?

Russia has in the past asked the EU and UN to replace their forces, but was refused.
For other countries there is the problem of how to adequately react if the situation would repeat.
After Somalia and Darfur the UN can hardly boast on quick reaction in case peace troops are ignored.

Perhaps the Canadians could take it as new mission.

[Misha]

Perhaps the Canadians could take it as new mission.

To be successful, both of the warring sides would have to agree to cease their hostilities. Georgia, given its desire to join Nato, would certainly agree. The challenge would be getting the Ossetians to agree to a cease fire. They are unlikely to do so as long as Russia continues providing them arms and encouraging their attacks on Georgian civilians and soldiers. The question therefore is whether Russia would be willing to help stabilize the region.

[OlgaH]

Ronnie,
Please stop from trying to put that label on me.

Ronnie, same thing concerns me.

I posted just the fact about the election in Georgia and there is nothing to do with fantasies.

[BC]

Shadow.  You're fond of bringing America into every question and stretching the facts of other situations to try to make it appear to justify the present one, so let's do that. ...please remind me of a time when all out war broke out while peacekeepers were in place...and where one of the "peacekeeper" nations was the main belligerent.

Tell me too of another situation where the country concerned asked the UN to replace one of the peacekeeper nations because of it's lack of impartiality in the matter.

I'm prepared to award you extra credit for creativity..

Georgia seems to fit the bill on both counts..

How's that for creativity?

[BC]

We had dinner last night with a AM/RW couple.  We discussed the present situation.  The RW swears that it's only the governments in Georgia, Ukraine, Czech Rep, Baltic states, etc., who are pro western while the People are pro Russia.

Olga, it appears you harbor the same fantasy.

It's not very unusual that the government wants A when the people want B.  Happens all the time. 

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

[BC]

Its not about switching, but about the difference of a situation. If you need to buy weapons in Ossetia, which ones do you think are available ? Russian or American ?
Selling arms to those who want to have them is not a crime.

Sounds like Second Ammendment Rights to me.. a good democratic principle.. These rights seem construed not to protect from foreign invasion but primarily to keep the home government in line if the government got out of hand..