Lesson Learned.....

[Doll]

Why would people make personal letters public?
BTW Steve did propose the woman.

[topofthekey]

Why would people make personal letters public?
BTW Steve did propose the woman.

Well, to be fair we don't know the woman. Her identity is private.

Anyways Steve, Doll does bring up something I'm curious about. How did you ever get to the proposal part?

[Doll]

Well, to be fair we don't know the woman. Her identity is private.

Anyways Steve, Doll does bring up something I'm curious about. How did you ever get to the proposal part?

  It is not about knowing the woman, it is about Steve making the personal message public.
As for the "engagement"- yes, she did say a lot about the ring which means Steve did propose to her.

[Doll]

Ok, I got it- he did propose to her, came back to the US still thinking of her and then the money thing occured. She asked for money and that was the end. Oh, well...

[Doll]

I read the first posting over- the whole drama is about the "discrepancy" in the approach. What seems decent for Steve is not that for the lady. Somehow people try to figure it out before meeting. It doesn't always work but it does in most cases. I do remember the man I married asked a lot of money questions on out first phone talks- how much I earned, how much was much for me, etc.
It was very wise of him.

[steve057]

Doll, I really don't see what makes the difference if I make a private letter public or not. It is after all my letter and I can do with it what I please. Yes I did propose to her,something I wish now I hadn't done. It was not just the money either it was about trust. How can you trust someone that lied to you from the start. Sometimes it is hard when you are going through something to see things clearly but after I got home and started to think about all that had happened and how many things she changed her mind on I finally saw things for what they really were. Does that make sense to you? The money didn't help either, I had just told her how much I lost in my divorce and it didn't phase her she just wanted more money. When I give someone money for something and then they tell me its not good enough it does tend to sour you a little! Oh well life goes on and I will keep looking!

[BillyB]

Yes I did propose to her,something I wish now I hadn't done.

Did you propose before, during, or after the $460 first date dinner? You don't need to answer because any answer would be wrong. Steve, I appreciate you bringing up this topic because it will give other men food for thought. A good learning experience for others at the risk of exposing yourself to embarrassment. I do respect that and you have provided an educational thread that will help others. Even if you or any man spends 7 or more months of your/their life corresponding with a woman, no man should go to the FSU with the thought of proposing to a woman he just met. This is at least a two trip adventure. The time apart between the first and second trip will give a man and woman time to reflect on each other and if time and distance hasn't separated the two persons, then maybe they got something solid they like about each other to build a relationship with.

[Gator]

Steve057,

Having shared her letter without permission, please do not reveal her name.  The letter raises a number of thoughts.

I never have encountered a pro-dater.  It seems strange that a pro-dater would expend the labor to write such a letter.  By writing this letter, your woman does not fit my image of a pro-dater.  Nevertheless, she is one of those pampered RW expecting an extravagant lifestyle.

She believes that you promised to provide her desired lifestyle, or said nothing to make her think otherwise until the end.  She told her parents and friends that you would marry her.  Then you had a change of heart.  That is how to anger a RW.

I am surprised that after 7 months of communication you knew so little about each other.  I gather her English is limited.

Did you send her a ring in the parcel?  It sounds as if you sent her a wedding band.  Why?

We do not have all the details, yet it appears that you used her more than she used you. 

[topofthekey]

We do not have all the details, yet it appears that you used her more than she used you. 

WOW, do you really think so???

The only question I have is why did Steve propose? Thats what has me scratching my head?

I'm wondering if this is just a sunk cost situation. Steve spent 7 months of his life corresponding with this one woman and she must have been down right gorgeous. So he lost his head? Or he was off in dream land and after proposing he figured out what a ride he would be in for.

It sounds like Steve has been pretty honest about everything so far. Unless he promised his ex finance all this $$$ and stuff... then I'm not sure how at fault Steve is for all this.

Isn't there a reason this model isn't married right now? Steve figured it out and got out before he got burned. No?

[Misha]

Well, I look forward to hearing what Steve has to say. Based on what he has said, I would guess that he proposed, she said yes, and then she gave him a list of his demands including that he quit his job, move to California, buy a house with a pool, ....

[Ade]

Well, I look forward to hearing what Steve has to say. Based on what he has said, I would guess that he proposed, she said yes, and then she gave him a list of his demands including that he quit his job, move to California, buy a house with a pool, ....

I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a case of communication issues where either they didn't talk or they did and they both heard what they wanted to hear rather than what was being said.

FWIW Steve, posting what was intended to be private correspondence is a breach of netiquette at the very least and I'd say that it doesn't reflect well on you.

[Caddydaddy]

Hi all,

This is a highly interesting story and I am glad it poped up just now, so I can learn. It raises the question to me how to do the proceed right.
I am communicating with several women but one has high potential to be THE ONE, from my side at least, maybe from hers too, not 100% sure yet. We will meet in November.

- If the first appearance goes mutual well, of course I would invite her to cafes, a good restaurant or whatever to spend some time together.
- If there still is enough interest in each other, I would bring up the question if she would have the possibility to visit me here at my place for some time, that I can show her how our living is and if it would be pleasant for her - for free of course. Maybe I could visit her a second time in Siberia before to make things sure.
- If all this works out well, then I would bring up the question about a possible engagement.

Maybe that's a possible way with some "if - then" criteria? If one doesn't work out, simply go back to start  

Regards,
CaddyDaddy

No, I still don't like "golden toilets", seems decadent to me  

[steve057]

Alright I'll admit I shouldn't have posted that letter! I was just a little pissed after I got it I guess! So I deleted it!
 Gator you ask some good questions, for some reason I thought we knew each other well I mean we had written each other every day for over 7 months. We talked about many subjets including  possiable marriage. I proposed to her midway through the trip before she started to give me her list of demands so to speak. She wanted a diamond and a big one of course and from what I have read on this board a Russian woman does not expect a ring at all. So I told her I would send her a plain thin gold band for her to wear until she came here and then we would get the diamond. She was a beautiful woman to be honest but as you say a very pampered one! Yes, I suppose I was under that spell of her beauty I still do not figure how I used her more than she used me? For what?
 Yes the next time I will make more than one trip to visit someone before making any plans for the future. I think it is good advice BillyB and the time apart will tell the story better and give plent of time for reflection.
 

[Caddydaddy]

Yes, I suppose I was under that spell of her beauty

Oh well, that can be a BIG trap too, we men will loose our heads...hehe

btw, believe it or not, my very best female friend is a (married) American Woman from MT I can discuss anything. She says:
Boy, go for a country girl with a Christian background and remember, the prettiest are usually not the best!
She may be right! 

Regards,
CaddyDaddy

[Misha]

Yes, I suppose I was under that spell of her beauty I still do not figure how I used her more than she used me? For what?
 Yes the next time I will make more than one trip to visit someone before making any plans for the future. I think it is good advice BillyB and the time apart will tell the story better and give plent of time for reflection.

Well, the challenge is quite simple. You have to know when a woman falls for you, whether she is indifferent, or whether she is faking it. I still say that the first minutes are crucial and that a man must be capable of reading a woman's reaction, her body language, and behavior to figure out whether she is really into him. Yes, it is difficult, because you are thinking of other things at that time, but the I would affirm that it is important to know if a woman has fallen in love with you before proposing.

[topofthekey]

Well I think Steve answered our questions. He probably wont ever just write one person for a long time again... he probably will even stay away from models. But the list of demands came after he got engaged.

I would bet Steve focuses on her signals better next time around and probably won't be so fast with the ring..... although he may have been pressured into doing it.

The good news is that Steve can meet a lot of girls on his next trip... and if he runs into a bad apple.... NEXT!

[Faux Pas]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a case of communication issues where either they didn't talk or they did and they both heard what they wanted to hear rather than what was being said.

FWIW Steve, posting what was intended to be private correspondence is a breach of netiquette at the very least and I'd say that it doesn't reflect well on you.

"breach of netiquette"? No offense SeriouslyJaded but thats a crock of shat. Is netiquette even a word? I see no harm in steve posting said letter. I saw it and I was appalled at her behavior. I understand she is not here to defend herself but I think steve has been forthright and honest. I'd say the letter wasn't fabricated. RWD is a discussion about Russian women and that letter certainly added to the discussion.

Had I received such a letter I would be tempted to post it myself. If she is embarrassed or ashamed by it, she shouldn't have written it. It is, what it is

[Misha]

I see no harm in steve posting said letter.

Given that he did not post any names, any photos of her or anything that could really identify the woman, I didn't really see the harm in it either.

[steve057]

Well I didn't see any harm either but I did remove it. Don't want to offend anyone here. Had everything turned out well I would have posted that also. I just thought someone could be helped by my post so that they don't fall into the same trap and look like an idiot but a wiser idiot I must say

[BillyB]

Oh well, that can be a BIG trap too, we men will loose our heads...hehe

We don't lose our heads, we just use the wrong head(little one) sometimes to do the thinking when it comes to women.    I suspect the ultimate goal of most guys who post here are looking for a woman that is wife material who'd will be content with a lifestyle the men are living and can provide. Got to use the big head to do the thinking to find the right woman.

Steve, I was not impressed with her letter that rubbed salt into your wound. A low class move by a woman who thinks of herself as high class. People can debate whether or not it's proper etiquette to post letters but you left name and her photo out of it so she remains anonymous and at least you did not complain to anti-scam sites about her as I've seen other disgruntled men do after a broken dream. That goes to your credit. Just as you failed to read her, she failed to read you and what kind of lifestyle you can provide her. You two should've never met since you two weren't meant to be. At a minimum I suspect you might of mislead her in your correspondence or maybe she knew how you lived and what you can provide and led you along to visit her anyway. Insincere women have asked men to visit them without risk to themselves and for possible gain and when the men do visit, women take them shopping or to expensive restaurants. I've once read a guy bought his woman a $400 pair of shoes within a few days after meeting each other because she asked for it. After his first visit to her, they broke up too. I have nothing your woman wanting to live the high life as long as she doesn't step on people getting there. I doubt she was not concerned about your finances leading you on to the finest restaurants. A decent woman would take care of you and your money instead of seeing how fast your wallet dries up in an effort to test if you can afford her.

[steve057]

 Well BillyB you are right about the ultimate goal I will use the big head next time Someone here said that sometimes they think if you can afford the trip you got money. Could be true? I read somewhere that they compare their take home pay and bills to ours? We make more money but have more bills, but they don't look at the difference in bills just the difference in income so they think we have all this expendable income or money to burn as they say. Could be part of the problem? What do you think?

[BillyB]

I read somewhere that they compare their take home pay and bills to ours? We make more money but have more bills, but they don't look at the difference in bills just the difference in income so they think we have all this expendable income or money to burn as they say. Could be part of the problem? What do you think?

Some RW are clueless on how things operate with finances in America. Some know based on what they've heard. Some think Americans that can travel are rich. They come in all shapes and sizes. Regardless of how your lady thinks life in America works, she values herself highly and thinks she can command a man who makes big dollars. She may be accurate in her assessment or she may have overvalued herself and will be single for a long time.

[Doll]

Could be part of the problem? What do you think?

Everybody can count so next time before you make any decision give the lady the idea of your income and expenses.
BTW how much do you make a year, Steve?

[Doll]

A decent woman would take care of you and your money instead of seeing how fast your wallet dries up in an effort to test if you can afford her.

I tested my AM on both McDonald's and Crab House on Tverskaya- he passed both  tests:D Just kidding- I didn't do it on purpose.

[topofthekey]

Everybody can count so next time before you make any decision give the lady the idea of your income and expenses.
BTW how much do you make a year, Steve?

umm WOW.

Based on how this lady's demands happened after the engagement I think we need to give Steve a pass on this one. Hopefully both genders see that in all this.

Asking a guy how much he makes is like asking a woman her weight. How well your salary spends also depends on what part of the country you live in. a lot of factors besides knowing how to count.

Let's flip this around. The lady knew she wanted to live in a big city (Los Angeles) and Steve was from Ohio. Instead of being upfront about it she waited until after Steve proposed. You might call Steve green but I don't think you can put the relationship's failure on him.