Be honest: Why are you looking for a woman in Russia and other countries of FSU

[felix8787]

And still, I wouldn't call that disclosure "respect for the relationship".    I see totally different thing behind these words...

I wouldn't expect you to see how I see things Ooooops, what you might think is totally different from what I think based on my own personal experience. What I think is not meant to be what other people think too. But out of curiosity, what do you see behind these words?

felix8787

[Misha]

Seems to me that looks and the ability(hope) of finding a younger and slimmer woman is the primary criteria listed first in all of the posts so far.

[Ooooops]

But out of curiosity, what do you see behind these words?

Out of Webster:

- an act of giving particular attention/consideration
- high or special regard

What else can I add to that?   

[Enot]

Seems to me that looks and the ability(hope) of finding a younger and slimmer woman is the primary criteria listed first in all of the posts so far.

Not for me, I was only looking for a more compatible spouse and found one ... which I married.

[felix8787]

Out of Webster:

- an act of giving particular attention/consideration
- high or special regard

What else can I add to that?  

Which is great Ooooops, nothing wrong with that. Which is something that I believe that everyone wants. 

felix8787

[Ade]

Seems to me that looks and the ability(hope) of finding a younger and slimmer woman is the primary criteria listed first in all of the posts so far.

I don't think you've been reading the same thread as I posted in.

[Misha]

I don't think you've been reading the same thread as I posted in.

Well, you did mention that there is a 13 year age difference as opposed to a ten-year age difference for the women you were currently dating. And, I would wager that the woman that interests you in Russia is attractive, likely a bit more attractive than the women you are now dating. Also, your proximity plays into it as well. It is easier to get to Russia from your corner of the world than the Americans.

[ScottinCrimea]

I date women all over the World as I travel a lot, however, I do want to live in Ukraine in the future.  Living abroad was a problem with my AW (of 10 years) - great lady by they way.  I changed not her.  I like moving around from country to country. But Ukraine is my favorite by far.  I fit in very well culturally there.  More so than the USA.  But USA and Bush are always number 1 for me.

So in past 6 months I have dated in several countries - USA, Belgium, Ukraine, etc.  However, I have never found a girl outside Ukraine who would live in Ukraine.  So I decided to focus on Ukraine and get a Ukraine girlfriend 2 months ago which I did.  I lived in Kiev in past and will live there again.

About three years ago I went to Chicago thinking I had a hot blind date but was a try out for a popular television program in USA called "Bachelor".  Friends played a joke on me.   Anyways got called back twice and was set to be trained for 3 months for the show but I met a girl in Ukraine on business and did not go on the show.  Dated this girl in Ukraine for almost two years and than moved to Ukraine after breakup to do business. 

I have a very good girl right now in Ukraine and visit her several times a month.  But I was open in past year to girls in any country but they will need to be comfortable to live in Ukraine.  Not many women will do this outside Ukraine.

I have never had a problem meeting women and women liking me.  But I always try to improve myself and listen to criticism. I do take a lot of grief from American men telling me why date a girl overseas you can get any girl you want in USA.  Also, why I would want to live in Ukraine.  But AW tend to think it is very romantic that I fly several times a month to visit my girlfriend.     

Wow, another one who prefers to live in Ukraine!  Nice for others to see that I am not so out in left field because I have chosen to live in my favorite place and that it actually fits with my culture and outlook on life.

If, as some have said, I'm delusional, it nice to have someone to share my delusions with.

[Ade]

Well, you did mention that there is a 13 year age difference as opposed to a ten-year age difference for the women you were currently dating. And, I would wager that the woman that interests you in Russia is attractive, likely a bit more attractive than the women you are now dating. Also, your proximity plays into it as well. It is easier to get to Russia from your corner of the world than the Americans.

Maybe you misunderstood me; the 13 year age difference was more of a negative than a positive thing. I'm not a huge fan of very large age differences between partners and although I know it can work I think it's more of an exception when it does. I thought I'd better add this in case my girlfriend reads it I actually think we are very compatible and our age differences are negligible.

And I'm not entirely sure where you got that she's any more attractive than some of the girls I've dated here in Scandinavia either.

You said, "finding a younger and slimmer woman is the primary criteria listed first in all of the posts so far"; I said that I wasn't even looking in the FSU and my criteria certainly wasn't what you listed, "primary" or otherwise and there are others that have posted similar things. Basically your post was a gross misunderstanding/misrepresentation of a lot of the posts in this thread.

[Misha]

Basically your post was a gross misunderstanding/misrepresentation of a lot of the posts in this thread.

I see that I touched a nerve You did not answer the question: is she attractive. Yes, you may have dated (past tense) attractive women in the past, but how would she compare to the women you are now dating?

[Ade]

I see that I touched a nerve You did not answer the question: is she attractive. Yes, you may have dated (past tense) attractive women in the past, but how would she compare to the women you are now dating?

Maybe I'm pedantic but I couldn't let a post such as yours, which was blatantly inaccurate, go answered.  But that's just me.

My girlfriend is very attractive and as attractive as a few of the women I've dated since I split from my ex 8 years ago or so. More attractive than most I have dated admittedly but I think you are trying to imply that she is more attractive than I could attain in now in Norway. Well, from past experience that's probably not the case.

BTW, in my world, looks are only a part of the package and certainly not the only or even the primary "criteria". My girlfriend has something which goes beyond how she looks.

[Misha]

BTW, in my world, looks are only a part of the package and certainly not the only or even the primary "criteria". My girlfriend has something which goes beyond how she looks.

I can't remember whether you have met her yet?

I agree that looks should be part of the package, but can you honestly say that you would be interested if she was less attractive than the women you could date? Sorry, I am perhaps a bit more jaded LOL.

[Ade]

I can't remember whether you have met her yet?

I agree that looks should be part of the package, but can you honestly say that you would be interested if she was less attractive than the women you could date? Sorry, I am perhaps a bit more jaded LOL.

Yes, we've met. I've spent 3 weeks in Russia with her and she's spent a month here in Norway. Next month she comes for another 2 months. We've known each other since January.

When it comes to attractiveness, of course there are limits, I am a man after all. But yes, looks aren't everything to me and given the choice of 2 women, one more attractive than the other, but the less attractive one ticking more of my "boxes", then I'd choose the less attractive one. I guess you don't believe that but try not to project your own views on others.

[kryten41]

Seriously, I don't think you are ready for commitment, perhaps you should try a pet.  I suggest a snail, they do well in a box, and don't require much attention.

[msmoby_ru]

Another most recent case would be IMHO ambach123. Another handsome and rich guy, a great catch for anyone. I guess he probably found in Ukraine what he was looking for.

..and is Lily's tongue planted firmly in her cheek? ! *I* hope so...

[msmoby_ru]

Olga, are men who have FOUND their life partner allowed to answer your question..*HONESTLY*, of course ?

[Misha]

I guess you don't believe that but try not to project your own views on others.

Well, I wouldn't call it projecting my views. Unlike most of the men here, I have actually learned the language and like Russians, both men and women. I am also basing the comments on what I have read here, and though there may be exceptions, I do see a common thread in what many/most men post.

Let's look at typical cases. Man knows nothing about Russia, has traveled to few countries (if any), and suddenly decides to travel halfway around the world to look for a RW. Invariably, what is the main motivation? Did he suddenly get a craving for authentic borscht? Or is he looking for something else? If we just look at the names of some of the agencies, it is clear what the motivation is. A case in point, Elena's MODELS. She is clearly marketing the physical. She also has a fascinating table of chances: http://www.zamuzh.com/book/before/next3.htm.

In her table, she quantifies the attributes that will increase or decrease a woman's chances of finding a foreign husband.

Age: her ideal range is 21-30 (+30) and 46+ is the worst (-20)
Figure: she even has her formula: height (in cm) - weight (in kg) - 100. For a score or 11 or higher, she gives 25 points (i.e. very tall and low weight), while a score of -6 or more is rated as -30 (i.e. shorter and heavier)
Face: beautiful gets a 15, but ugly gets -50
Hair: very long gets a 20, very short gets -20
Language: speaking English fluently gets 30 while not speaking any foreign language gets a zero
Children: 0 children gets a 10, 1 child gets a zero, two or more children gets a -20.

I believe she has a pretty good idea as to what men are looking for when they sign up a Elena's

[ScottinCrimea]

I think there might be some confusion or offense because the typical poster on this forum is not representative of the typical WM who is courting or thinking of courting a RW.  Sure we have those who pop up saying, "I found this hot RW on some sight and want to bring her home.  What do I do?"  But those are the exception on this board and usuallly don't stay long. I know I feel a tinge of resentment when I'm lumped into the group as a whole because most of the motives and actions ascribed to the average WM don't fit in my case.

Olga has touched a nerve with many here because she is trying to say that the foolishness of many outside this forum is also the norm for those who participate here, and with a few exceptions (we all know who they are) I don't see it.

[Diplomacy]

Olga:

I always enjoy your view in posts.  I will give you my story

1. My grandpa was very enchanted by the Ukrainian women and also seems to have been assisting the Ukrainian people after the WWII or the Great Patriotic War. 

2. I was looking to adopt an orphan after hearing the conditions they faced and had the means to remove one from that environment.

3.  In researching Ukrainian culture I became very involved in social reformation in the Ukraine.

4.  Was missing my Grandpa and wanted to chat with Ukrainian women on Victory day.  I was very honest about not really looking for a wife.  So there were a few that became good friends and they impressed me.

5. Then the family values that I believe many in the United States have lost is very much found in a lot of the women there.

6. I would not marry a woman that I did not feel would be anything but the best mother.  I came from divorced parents and will do everything to ensure that I make the best decision I can when it comes to a wife.

7. I am 34 and my fiancee is turning 31.  So there is no great age difference.

8. I found the woman I dated wanted to be men to gain equality.  I believe that you can still be feminine and be an equal.  The fact that they try to emulate men in business, IMO makes them not very happy as an individual.

9.  Men and woman think and act differently left to our own devices.

10. I like doing and discussing intellectual, cultural, and community service oriented activities.

11. My fiance is a professor of Sociology and Social work in Ukraine.  She is also very active in women centers to help the abuse and hardships they face in their culture.  At the same time she is not a feminist.  Meaning she does not hate men, just the ones that leave their children and abuse their wives.

12. She loves being in the outdoors, going to museums, zoos, and cooking.  They are also my passions.

13. She has a son and he is very similar to me at his age, and my mother even questioned if he was indeed my biological son.  For the record, I had never been to the Ukraine prior to August.

14.  I make around 6 figures a year, and played ball in college.  I am told I am good looking, and never had any problems finding a girl to date.

15. Yes, she is in fact very attractive. To me she is stunning and that sure does not hurt anything.  I do not know if I would have been so quick to commit to her is she was missing any of the attributes I listed.  The reality is I do not need to spend any time dwelling on what if's.  She is also very warm and kind, and perfect for me. 

I hope that helps!

[Misha]

5. Then the family values that I believe many in the United States have lost is very much found in a lot of the women there.

I am not quite sure about that. I have seem my share of dysfunctional Russian families. Russians don't have a a monopoly on family values. If I look at my wife's friends, there are plenty of divorces. Not all of the women were overjoyed to be mothers either. My wife was given a lot of advice by her friends with kids to wait as long as possible before getting married and settling down because they considered it dull and tiring.

[Ooooops]

5. Then the family values that I believe many in the United States have lost is very much found in a lot of the women there.

I am not quite sure about that.

Ditto.   I'm surrounded by great families of our American friends.   I wish my parents were as good as them.   

[Diplomacy]

Well I think men leaving is a huge issue.  Drunk and abusive men are also factors there.  Men going out and sleeping with whoever they want is also an issue.  There is no child support to hold the men accountable and I have heard too many incidents now to call them isolated.  Men leave and do not have any involvement with their children, then start another family.  With no financial support to the previous children he had.

This is not every man, but I believe it is very much culture driven.  I saw all this with my own eyes also.  The amount of Vodka, beer, and other drinking is destroying the men there.  I did not see it nearly as much in the women.

Yes we have our domestic abuse issues, and you can throw the statistic that we have higher percentage of reported cases.  I will counter that fact with the murder of a domestic partner by men is exponentially higher in the FSU, and the domestic abuse is not reported and also culture defined.  A case would not be reported there, that would have a man here thrown in jail in the USA.

There are good and bad men everywhere, and I am speaking as a cultural issue.  I am sure that there are plenty of women that do not want children or the lifestyle that they bring.  The laws do not protect the women and children, and therefor the society is dictated by that also.  I believe that the society is best defined by the laws they have and the accountability of the laws.

I also got told by my fiancee's parents that most men there would never support another man's child.  Her brother even went as far as to say I am insane.  They were very much shocked and did not trust the fact that her son was in fact going to the USA also.  This has come up 2 times now since I have left, that her parents would care for him.

Now that is not  backed by statistics, but where there is smoke there is fire.  

[Diplomacy]

I do not see as much of the grandparents living in the home.  I see grandparents living in retirement homes and Nursing homes.  I see children being sent to daycare a lot.  Then, children being drugged for ADHD,ADD way too much.  The DVD and video games are now a babysitter.  Parents working too many hours, and too tired to function.

Most parents tell me that they can not just let their child out to play like we did as children.  It used to be that we would go out early and not come back until the street lights come on.  I drive through my neighborhood and it is rare to see any boys out playing sports in the park.  IMO parents are getting even more tired protecting children from the society we have become. 

They do their best, but it is a society that is going in a direction I do not like.  There are plenty of great families here also.  For me a status car and home is not worth the price we are paying to get them.  I also see a lot of people in my industry that do not want a family, and want to advance careers. 

[Ade]

Let's look at typical cases.

Well, that's the thing isn't it?

You weren't talking about typical cases when you said all posters in this thread stated that they went after FSUW because they could get someone younger and prettier there, and you included me in that list which is patently false. So either you misread most people's posts or you assumed they weren't being entirely truthful.

Now, if you want to talk in general terms, I would probably agree with you that the majority that do go there have those two qualities (younger and prettier) very high on their list if not on the top.

[Ade]

Seriously, I don't think you are ready for commitment, perhaps you should try a pet.  I suggest a snail, they do well in a box, and don't require much attention.

Uh, were you addressing me? If so, what are you talking about?