Do FSU women have stronger morals?

[Andrew James]

You have to decide what it is that interests you:

1. Fictionalized accounts romanticizing the feminine essence in Russia;
2. Politicians pontificating as to what they would like to see achieved in their country;
3. What real people actually do in their real lives.

I for one am more of an option 3 kind of guy.

All of the above, and the way they connect to each other. And anything anyone else can add to them that will enhance my understanding of the topic.

[Misha]

I prefer open-endendness, where one question can can generate a range of discussions relevant to a topic, as opposed to say, adversarial discussions, or stabs at other people's contributions, which of course have their place too, but can also close discussions off and end up in acrimony. Mind you I am doing that too now.

Well, I have to confess that philosophical discussions that cannot be tested (or at least falsified) in the real world bore me.

[Misha]

All of the above, and the way they connect to each other. And anything anyone else can add to them that will enhance my understanding of the topic.

Well, the only thing that will really enhance your understanding of the topic will be meeting real women and taking it from there.

[Andrew James]

Well, the only thing that will really enhance your understanding of the topic will be meeting real women and taking it from there.

Tend to agree with you here. No substitute for experience, though it is good to be well informed before doing jumping in. Just a case of getting the balance right.

[Misha]

Tend to agree with you here. No substitute for experience, though it is good to be well informed before doing jumping in. Just a case of getting the balance right.

What exactly do you have to be informed about? Boils down to this: forget whatever fantasies you have about chaste and traditional Russian women. Look for chemistry, do the regular date things and the intimate stuff will fall into place on its own.

[Blues Fairy]

Topics dealing with morality always end up with discussion of what the definition actually is.  E.g. is it "immoral" to make the first move, or does it have more to do with the woman's self-esteem?  Is it immoral to sleep after the first date, or just plain stupid?  I tend not to be judgemental of such superficial things and I would not ascribe them to moral standards but rather to a particular person's emotional build and capacity for strategic behaviour.

For my part, I find many so-called "traditional morals" rather ridiculous and sometimes even destructive from my 21-century point of view.  I value self-sufficiency and independence, but for some men (and women) that would be a dubious trait.  I am pro-choice regarding abortions but I can see the value of moral argument of those who choose to preserve life (without imposing this choice on others).  Tolerance and non-judgementalism, in my opinion, are greater moral good than rigid adherence to principle.  Hardly a definition of morality (in the traditional sense)?

Some Russian women may seem traditional and highly moral in their desire to always let the man have the last say and make the final decision; however, the same woman who worships her husband may well consider it perfectly acceptable to belittle and yell at her kids.  Would she be moral, or immoral?  Go figure.

[SANDRO43]

Olga, you forgot fer in your list of irregular Latin imperatives .

[OlgaH]

Olga, you forgot fer in your list of irregular Latin imperatives .

Oh, no, Sandro, I don't want to place everything on my delicate shoulders 

[SANDRO43]

Oh, no, Sandro, I don't want to place everything on my delicate shoulders 

So you just want to say, lead, do but not bring ? Shirker, you have no stronger morals .

[OlgaH]

Shirker, you have no stronger morals .

Sandro, I even chose these irregular Latin imperatives just because it brings in my mind  what I say when I hurt my toe , but "fer" would be too much, I think, so I'm not so immoral   

[Andrew James]

What exactly do you have to be informed about?

Actually, you and others have pretty much covered it for me, as much as is possible on a forum. The rest was just conversational, and probably turning into static.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, I even chose these irregular Latin imperatives just because it brings in my mind what I say when I hurt my toe

Poor excuse, that'd apply only to the 3rd in your list , and THAT'S immoral .

[OlgaH]

Poor excuse, that'd apply only to the 3rd in your list , and THAT'S immoral .

only to the 3rd... ( sigh of relief with a quiet conscience about the 1st)

Will I be considered as a "traditional woman" if I will put the 3rd in my list for confession about my innocent immoralities? 

[Gator]

Topics dealing with morality always end up with discussion of what the definition actually is.  E.g. is it "immoral" to make the first move, or does it have more to do with the woman's self-esteem?  Is it immoral to sleep after the first date, or just plain stupid?  I tend not to be judgemental of such superficial things and I would not ascribe them to moral standards but rather to a particular person's emotional build and capacity for strategic behaviour.

For my part, I find many so-called "traditional morals" rather ridiculous and sometimes even destructive from my 21-century point of view.  I value self-sufficiency and independence, but for some men (and women) that would be a dubious trait.  I am pro-choice regarding abortions but I can see the value of moral argument of those who choose to preserve life (without imposing this choice on others).  Tolerance and non-judgementalism, in my opinion, are greater moral good than rigid adherence to principle.  Hardly a definition of morality (in the traditional sense)?

Expressed as I would expect from you.  In my mind, "traditional" conjures the word "hierarchal," a relationship that I would find unfulfilling.

Your concept of "tolerance and non-judgmentalism" is indeed noble, and close to Christian tenets of "love and forgiveness."  Speaking of forgiveness, many RW impressed me as being less forgiving than AW, although my wife is forgiving out of necessity.   

I read little of this thread after making a first page post.  Did it get into sex? 

[Andrew James]

Topics dealing with morality always end up with discussion of what the definition actually is...For my part, I find many so-called "traditional morals" rather ridiculous and sometimes even destructive from my 21-century point of view.

 

As you say, labels can open the door to misunderstandings through lack of definition. In a belated attempt to bring greater clarity to my contributions, sexual morality to me is as much related to a qualities like 'personal integrity', 'following your own path', 'not buying into the popular ideology of the time' (e.g. the commodification of sex with respect to the later, which I see as quite prevalent). Therefore, 'traditional', is probably not as apt as say 'uncorrupted' - something I touched on in a follow up post, though perhaps not in great enough detail?

But those are my values/definitions of morality. The primary objective of my OP - was to question a perception of RW as having 'stronger sexual morals' than other western countries, which upon reflection relates to another definition of sexual morality, one closer to notions of modesty, prudence etc., things one might associate with Conservative ideology (such that we might encounter in Christian fundamentalism for example.).
 
There is an overlap between my personal outlook and this Conservative approach, but in other ways they are very different (e.g. a woman could be 'modest', and yet possess none of the moral attributes I identify with), so maybe discussing what I prefer was a distractor?

In truth I was simply interested in exploring people's thoughts on this topic ('i.e. the only dumb question is the one not asked'?), so used an open ended conversational approach. Perhaps this was a mistake? If placed in a debating scenario you do need to state your contention in stricter terms, which might be necessary in certain forums where adversarial approaches predominate. (I am still trying to work out if that is true for this forum.)

***

So - and I hope this is the end of it :selfharm:  - if we define 'stronger sexual morals' in terms of Conservatism, and question if there is a stronger vein of this present in FSUW compared to say AW, I think the many wise and insightful people on this board have satisfied my original question as much as is possible through forums. As for people's own moral outlooks: well it seems like that's a whole other topic.

PS I wish StevieJ was still around because we had a pivotal private discussion on this topic which prompted my OP.

[SANDRO43]

(sigh of relief with a quiet conscience about the 1st)

Not generally used for addressing toes. If you do, it wouldn't so much be a question of morality as of a messy anatomy .

Will I be considered as a "traditional woman" if I will put the 3rd in my list for confession about my innocent immoralities?

If you seek Ego te absolvo ab imperativis tuis, pass the written list over, DON'T read it aloud .

I read little of this thread after making a first page post. Did it get into sex? 

We're getting there, be patient Phil .

[Nat]

Are we talking about misunderstandings that exist in discussions/friendships/relationships between RW and WM or are we talking about sex?

All of the above, and the way they connect to each other. And anything anyone else can add to them that will enhance my understanding of the topic.

Then may be it's better to name the topic "Do FSU women have different mentality?" Because all the issues and misunderstandings are due to mentality, not moral Moral - it's something, whic doesn't differ much in nations, well, if not to take absolutely different parts of the world, of course as for example Aisa or Africa comparing with Europe
Again, it's my IMHO.

[Andrew James]

Than it's may be better to name the topic "Do FSU women have different mentality?" Because all the issues and misunderstandings are due to mentality, not moral Moral - it's something, whic doesn't differ much in nations, well, if not to take absolutely different parts of the world, of course as for example Aisa or Africa comparing with Europe
Again, it's my IHMO.

Yes Nat. In retrospect, something like that would have been a more suitable title - either that or my title in quotation marks with a reference attached - if only because it would have saved say 3 page thread from turning into a 8 page. Still, I got the clarification I was seeking, so it served its purposes.

And now two posters are talking to each other in latin, it seems we have reached that stage.

Gator: we do indeed seem to have made it to sex, or at least Sandro and Olga have, not that I have a clue what is going on there.

[OlgaH]

Not generally used for addressing toes. If you do, it wouldn't so much be a question of morality as of a messy anatomy .If you seek Ego te absolvo ab imperativis tuis, pass the written list over, DON'T read it aloud .

Fiat 

We're getting there, be patient Phil .

Et ne nos inducas in...

[Caddydaddy]

Fiat 

red flag - dark red flag!  sorry, couldn't resist 

btw, Olga, I looked at your pictures and saw your hubby standing nearby a nice beige 1941 Caddy, is probably a Series 63, is it yours?   - of course I saw the Cadillac first 

[SANDRO43]

red flag - dark red flag!  sorry, couldn't resist 

Are you perchance critical of the products manufactured by Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino ?

[OlgaH]

Are perchance critical of the products manufactured by Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino ?

Sandro, I think Caddydaddy suggests that the red flag would be a nice decoration for the products.     I am just curious: from the front or from behind   

[OlgaH]

btw, Olga, I looked at your pictures and saw your hubby standing nearby a nice beige 1941 Caddy, is probably a Series 63, is it yours?   - of course I saw the Cadillac first 

Caddydaddy, we should place your words right into God's ears    because the Cadillac is a property of Disney World... Ah, Land of Dreams      

[Caddydaddy]

Are you perchance critical of the products manufactured by Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino ?

  Sandro, sorry, no offense meant, but when it comes to classic Cadillacs I get the tunnel view 
btw, RWD means Rear Wheel Drive 

[Pike]

Misha, I see nothing to debate or agree with. I simply expressed my opinion.  You certainly don't have to agree with my opinion but I see nothing to debate. I have spent a number of years with American women and Russian women and to me, in my opinion, which is not debatable, it's not even close. Russian women, on average, have far more morals and values than the average American woman.

- - - - - - -

Misha, Jack is right . . .  when it comes to opinions. 

Probably Jack is the only one here who has dated and been intimate with more RW than I have.

However, based on my experiences with RW and AW, I come to exact opposite conclusion as  Jack.  And it is not even close.

But, remember, he is in the business of selling his audience on RW.  I am selling nothing.

Let me add however, that I do not see anything terrible about the free sexuality of RW.  They are simply more honest in letting their actions flow freely from the natural sexual instincts that we all have.  They do not suppress these feelings as much as AW.  The world would be a better place if we all acted in such a manner . . . provided safe sex was practiced and only consenting adults were involved.