Beware Yalta Apartments

[Taz]

Well...here we go again, another flame war. Does it never end? Am I one of the few that "get it"? It isn't about Jack but about the apartment in Yalta. Somehow Jack has made into an even bigger issue between him and KyivTrip (KT).

KT gave PLENTY of advance notice for the apartment it seems. If the lady promise a refund, she OWES him a refund. I could understand not giving a refund if on extremely short notice but over a week in advance in inexcusable and especially if a previous customer.

For me it wouldn't be about the money either, it would be about the principle at this point. I would want to make sure that I received what was promised. If the lady in Yalta had never promised to refund anything, then it would have sucked still but at least she would have been upfront about her cheating him out of the money rather than stringing him along for a refund.

I don't know what KT did with Jack or that Kevin guy, if his fact are legit, then I wouldn't want to consider an apartment from the lady in Yalta. She should have just given him the money back rather than go through this. I am sure it will ultimately cost her far more than the $150 in lost good will. I travel a lot to UA and I love Crimea. I will definitely pass on using this woman's services.

As for Jack posting all the stuff about KT. I don't really care to read through it all but I wouldn't recommend it as a good business practice. If I were considering his services I would seriously consider how confidential any emails I send to him might be. If it were my emails to a lawyer, I'd be looking for another lawyer to sue his/her butt.

For a business entity to divulge a client's emails on an open forum or to other people without their consent is just a plain terrible business practice. If I ever forwarded, divulged, released, copied, etc. any of my client's emails to me, I'd be without a job quicker than you can count to 5. There are just some things you shouldn't do even if it isn't illegal...

Jack -let me make a suggestion, even if you are right on this issue, you aren't doing yourself any favors. You are more likely to drive off customers than anything else with this "defense". I don't see where he was really attacking you. You simply could have stated the situation about the lady vacating the apartment and left it at that. That should have been sufficient to "defend" yourself if you really felt the need.

Just let it go or put him on "ignore". We don't need to drive off any more people from this board. It is a pissing match that nobody will win. I have no dog in this hunt at all, you can blast away at each other all day long if you want to do it in private...

[William3rd]

C'mon-read the guy's posts. It an ongoing tale of cheapness. . . . and whining. Its ALL about the money. Pay 80 bucks and the sniveling stops . Loss of Goodwill from a whiner with internet access? probably not. Most if not all of the prospective customers will never find the negative posts. If indeed there was a promise made to him at all. Snivelers have a little problem with fact if it helps them get there way.

And I dont see the whiner as a true customer since he has apparently tried to stiff other vendors. THese are kinda like the guys that have 3 different attorneys before they get to you and complain about how bad the other guys are. And then want discounts and demand extra services, etc. And then stiff you on your bill on the way to find a fifth attorney. Glad that Jack gave his history out.

I am outofhere. This thread has dragged on longer than its worth.

[Jack]

Taz, I appreciate your suggestion.  In this time of economic uncertainty's, with so many business's being slow, knock on wood, we are still quite busy, even though we also see a drop off in guys traveling right now.  Taz I think most of our clients are the educated consumer, if they are not I try to get them that way. I'm not worried about driving off a few individuals as more than likely they will not be the educated consumer we prefer to work with. So even though I do appreciate your suggestion, I will call a spade a spade, I will offer my opinions, it does not matter to me that I have an agency, what matters is the success of these foreign men and Russian/Ukraine ladies who seek to marry.

Taz, back to your post, if you don't know all the facts, why not educate yourself before you start making pie in the sky comments.

I do value the confidentiality of my clients. David likes to only give one side of a story. Everything you see today was posted on a public forum last year. David told me if I did not pay him $80 (because he had decided to leave early) he would tell everyone on the board how unhappy he was with our tour. I took it as a threat, blackmail, give me money for my silence. I'm sure you read this Taz, right?  He did not ask if he could post my private e-mails, he just did it. He only gave one side of the story. He did not mention all the details that he had requested about a special flat, had to have this and that and be this distance from the center and cost exactly this much. He was given exactly what he had ordered even down to the guitar with special strings.  Kiev Trip was told he would have to pay for the bus ride to Dnepropetrovsk, no more free loading as he did on the bus ride from Kharkov to Lugansk and when he heard this, waaaaaa, waaaa, I want to leave. I am not staying in Lugansk. Tell the flat owner I want my money back because I want to leave early. Bullschit Taz.

And Taz, as William eluded to, it's more than just the Yalta apartment, this guy does this time and time again. Doesn't it make you wonder why every marriage agency he has previously worked with has banned him, will not work with him anymore. Has to be a reason Taz.  If this discussion board is mostly here for the education of these men, I think at least some of these guys are interested, or entertained, in hearing a little about the dark side of some of what goes on.

[Taz]

I didn't read the thread last year. I don't have that much time to read stuff that doesn't directly affect or interest me. So I am not aware of what all went on. I was planning on going back to UA in a few weeks and was looking for apartments and other options. I was thinking of going somewhere for New Year's Eve and Kiev seemed to be too busy. I was considering Crimea again and I never spent much time in Yalta other than day-trips. I never rented an apartment there.

As for William's comments. I personally ALWAYS search for positive AND negative info about a potential service provider. It has saved me a lot of grief. I am in general a pretty easy customer to please but I've had issues with apartments in the FSU. I was able to resolve it each time but I am very cautious when I read about bad experiences. Sometimes it is just the tip of the iceberg.

One commercial poster here I used previously failed miserably to meet my even relatively low expectations. Previously this person had a good rep. The chinks started showing up just before I elected to use the offered services. I should have headed the first few people commenting about the apparent decline in the standard of service. While I only wasted about $400-500 on this person's services, it pretty much pissed away a 3 week trip...

That cost was more substantial, more so in time lost from vacation but the economic costs were not insignificant. I have to fly out of an expensive airport so my ticket was about $2k to get there and all told I wasted about $4k on that trip due to the fact this person did a half-assed job of what I asked him to do. I was not the only person this happened to.

I can appreciate there are both sides to the story. I am not saying to not defend yourself, just keep it short. Just say there is a continuing pattern, yada yada yada. Brevity is very helpful as long as it doesn't alter the facts.

[Turboguy]

My thoughts on all this are mixed.

I think if I had rented an apartment that was far worse than advertised I might post a warning.   If I left earlier than I paid for I would not expect a refund.  If someone promised me a refund then I might be upset that I did not get it but I don't think I would be upset enough to start a thread about it.   The OP does come of as a bit of a cheapskate but there are all types of people in the world and hopefully any woman who gets involved with him will pick that up and make whatever decisions are right for her.

I do think showing photos of the type he did is as low classed as can be and I think that was in very poor taste.

As far as Jack goes.  I have been on one of Jack's tours.   Jack does a very good job of working ahead of a trip to make it successful and is upfront about all the costs and what the client is expected to pay for.  If KT was unaware of those things then he did not read his emails.

Jack is a very dynamic and strong willed person.   I have no doubts he can have a temper.  He is very particular both about what he expects from his employees, what he expects from the agencies and what he expects from his clients.   He will work harder than anyone to make sure all goes smoothly but he does feel he owes the agencies the number of men he promises and to the men the number of ladies he promises.   He does not like it at all when people make on the spot changes.   I think he also feels the men on the tour reflect on him and I am sure if someone created a poor impresson or behaved badly he would not be very happy with that person.   My experiences with Jack's tour were excellent and I have always recommend his services highly, particularly to those new to looking for a RW.