Professional vs Blue Collar....Your Opinion

[RussianWind]

Russia 1998. I had a problem with a water system so I called a plumber. The plumber noticed a book on the kitchen table. It was Arthur Schopenhauer. He looked at the book and cited "“Any book, which is at all important, should be reread immediately” An expression of my face did not need any words and he added "Oh, no. I'm not going to reread Schopenhauer right know, but I think we have an interesting subject to talk about..." So we had a wonderful conversation about philosophy while he was working ... The plumber was a Doctor of Philosophy.     

Olga I have almost the same story with a plumber from that year. Though we were speaking about software and programming technologies, so after the sink we actually had tea and moved to my computer 

[Gator]

Olga I have almost the same story with a plumber from that year. Though we were speaking about software and programming technologies, so after the sink we actually had tea and moved to my computer 

It sounds as if Russian plumbers could give advice on the art of seduction.

[Gator]

Has anyone noted the dates of posts on prior pages? 

The original question over a year ago was not about the man's profession.  The question was:

Should the newbies really search for highly educated professionals or blue collar FSU women?

That is one of the best questions ever asked at RWD.  It touches on compatibility issues.  However, it deals more with the likelihood, implications and tradeoffs of a RW not readily finding a job in America equal to what she did in the FSU.  It should have fomented much discussion.


Goodolboy, the OP, was once a prolific poster at RWD.  A married man who expressed how his wife was the best "thing" that ever happened to him.  He always defended the honor of RW in RWD discussions.

He occasionally checks in, yet has not posted in months.  I believe he is rather busy these days.   A retired gunny sergeant, he is now working in a "security" position in the "Middle East."

[greg2654]

Should the newbies really search for highly educated professionals or blue collar FSU women?

It depends on how much work your RW is willing to do to make herself job market ready. Blue collar RW may only need to improve their English. Prof. RW will almost certainly need MUCH more and it may take years to get there.

[greg2654]

It touches on compatibility issues.  However, it deals more with the likelihood, implications and tradeoffs of a RW not readily finding a job in America equal to what she did in the FSU.

When my wife came over 5 of her friends came over within the same year. Their connection was a woman who was teaching them English in Moscow, Valentina. 3 were civil engineers and 2 were unskilled. They all had an idea (unfortunately promoted by my buddies and me) that they could have the job of their choice just by applying for it. We thought a college degree was just "all that" and a bag of chips. Turns out that not all Russian degrees are created equal. Add to that: Russian work experience is considered "Unverifiable" and therefore worthless.

How to fix this? The first thing to do was fix the English. But more than just conversational speech, they needed to learn all the technical terminology. They were going to interviews and sounding like idiots because they didn't know what the employer was asking them. Having them go back to college to relearn things was too much for some of them and their careers ended there.

To an American employer, a Russian diploma could be the back of a Russian cereal box. Have their degrees translated and certified. WES (World Education Services) is a very highly regarded service that is used by most American Universities when evaluating foreign degrees. They cost more but these guys are the best.

They needed American work experience. The first job is always the worst but it's necessary. The referrals from it are invaluable. Now future employers can call someone American and get a referral. Once they had some US experience they could add their Russian experience and Bingo! Now they have a resume that's worth something.

The 2 blue collar girls? One got a job at Meijers (Midwest department store) and is very happy. The other saw the writing on the wall and spent her idle married time going to nursing school and is now interning at an area hospital.

Irina had to change her thinking also. To her teaching at a University was ALL there was. Anything less meant failure. Teaching at a high school was the same as being a caretaker at the monkey house in the zoo. She was wrong. She is individually raising math scores for the district. She is now most pleased.

[ECOCKS]

Good info Greg.

I am continually amazed at how dismissive many FSU citizens are about the importance of language.

Kudos to those that figure out going back to school is respected and accepted in our culture. My wife is struggling with this and it will be a battle for the other family groups.

[Gator]

Good info Greg.

Yes, it is excellent information.  Obtaining useful information is why most people read RWD, not to argue politics.

[greg2654]

I am continually amazed at how dismissive many FSU citizens are about the importance of language.

The level of their job is directly proportional to the level of their English.

[JR]

  Your ex was just the spoiled daughter of commie apparatchiks.

Very true.

[vwrw]

I am continually amazed at how dismissive many FSU citizens are about the importance of language.

Dismissiveness/contempt of FSU citizens toward English language becomes negligible when compared to dismissiveness of  American citizens toward any foreign language. And there is even less truth in your words if you talk about FSU immigrants. I have yet to meet a FSU lady among FSU immigrants who would have not realized the importance of learning English. The problem is that some are not motivated to improve their English for whatever reason. They are like American people who understand the importance of exercising, but they do not exercise.   

[Sculpto]

But.. English rules the world doesn't it?   

[JR]

dismissiveness of  American citizens toward any foreign language. .   

What?!?!?!? Theres another language besides English?

[BillyB]

What?!?!?!? Theres another language besides English?

I remember a British poster named Ste. Sometimes I did not understand what he wrote and a few times I asked him when he's going to learn the "American" language.

[ECOCKS]

Dismissiveness/contempt of FSU citizens toward English language becomes negligible when compared to dismissiveness of  American citizens toward any foreign language. And there is even less truth in your words if you talk about FSU immigrants. I have yet to meet a FSU lady among FSU immigrants who would have not realized the importance of learning English. The problem is that some are not motivated to improve their English for whatever reason. They are like American people who understand the importance of exercising, but they do not exercise.  

My statement stands as written.

UNlike you I will refrain from personal aspersion. It's a sign of the times on this board. Simply using the IGNORE key works well enough.

[Sculpto]

Ed admit it.. you are one of the rare Americans that is multi lingual.  Even here in California with the incredible number of immigrants it is rare to find someone born here with more than rudimentary second language skills. 

[RussianWind]

I am continually amazed at how dismissive many FSU citizens are about the importance of language.

I am continually amazed at a number of men looking for a FSU wife without language skills at all. How much does her degree worth if she can't say a word 

[I/O]

Olga I have almost the same story with a plumber from that year. Though we were speaking about software and programming technologies, so after the sink we actually had tea and moved to my computer 

I trust he attended to your "plumbing's" needs?

I am continually amazed at a number of men looking for a FSU wife without language skills at all. How much does her degree worth if she can't say a word 

Ah, but if ya get 'em dumb enough, they might be content to stay home cooking, cleaning and humping even after they get the green card.

[Gator]

I trust he attended to your "plumbing's" needs?
Ah, but if ya get 'em dumb enough, they might be content to stay home cooking, cleaning and humping even after they get the green card.

The definition of a traditional woman?

[Gator]

I am continually amazed at a number of men looking for a FSU wife without language skills at all. How much does her degree worth if she can't say a word 

My limited experience is that educated RW spoke at least "fair" English.  Not well enough for immediate employment, yet enough to start taking structured English language lessons and progressing from there.   They recognized that adjustment, to include employment, would take time.  An example being the friend of Greg's wife who went to nursing school.

I would worry more about the uneducated woman who did not speak English.   Did they not have some English classes in middle school and high school?  However, they retained little, suggesting they do not have an inclination or ability for learning English.  It also raises questions about intellect, as well as about sense of worldly adventure to undertake a permanent move to a strange land.  Will they be happy doing just the the three tasks listed by I/o? 

[RussianWind]

Ah, but if ya get 'em dumb enough, they might be content to stay home cooking, cleaning and humping even after they get the green card.

It is cool to have a wife for cleaning, cooking and humping with a red University diploma on a wall, isn't it. And more important she keeps silence 

[Faux Pas]

Sahweeeet! Back on topic. I can state emphatically when I looked at profiles early on in the initial stage I did not have my sights set on any degree of education or profession. My one searching criteria was some degree of english skills. It wouldn't have mattered if she was a professor or a waitress but, some english ability was a must. This requirement was for my own shortcomings. At the time, I knew no Russian and had no inclination to learn any.

Reading this thread confirms and I concur with Gator that a FSUW with english speaking ability is most likely educated to some degree. As best as I can tell the english taught in Russia's secondary school isn't enough for the average student to be conversant.

I didn't realize at the time that most women with english skills would most likely be educated. It was a requirement for me because I understood how important the ability to communicate is to a budding relationship. I've learned my lesson many times over with AW whom english is their native language and for some reason we still couldn't communicate.

Would I have been interested in an uneducated woman who spoke decent english? Probably not, for different reasons but, english ability was my personal starting point. FWIW

[Gylden]

I agree, IMO the most important factor for success is common language abilities. How it is possible to get to know someone without some common language skills, much less be sure that one is the "right" one is beyond me. It is logical to believe that a more educated FSU woman is more likely to posses those abilities, however it is not the key. As the ability to communicate isn't really some hidden quality, I find that conversing with a woman is the best way to tell about her English skills.
I myself didn't consider education as a criteria, just language skills.

[vwrw]

But.. English rules the world doesn't it?   

Absolutely,  it does!

I think approximately 40-50 % of educated RW who are about my age or older do not speak English. The reason for this belief of mine is that when I was young, schools divided all fourth grade pupils into 2-3 equal groups - English , German, and French speaking groups. Certainly, given a legitimate justification, a pupil could change his/her group, but most of them stood at the groups where they were placed to. 
In an university, students can choose what language they want to learn there. At this point, I think, many understand that  learning English is more beneficial, but they continue learning the second language  that they had been learning at their schools because they doubt they can learn much of new language during one semester and under a huge load of other subjects to study.
Hence, all that is safe to state is that educated RW spoke at least one second language, and it is not necessarily English.

The next thing that I wanted to clarify is that when it comes to  FSU, often, being a blue collar woman does NOT equal  to being an uneducated woman. For example, a higher education is often requirement for applying to work at a shop.   

[Aloe]

higher education is a requirement for every single job in Russia, be it a cleaning lady, a baby sitter, or a driver lol

[kievstar]

My wife knew maybe 5 words of English when I met her.  Were happily married and no issues. She does have numerous advanced degrees in different fields so she is no dummy.

Behavior is more important than language.