Professional vs Blue Collar....Your Opinion

[vwrw]

Unfortunately, it's gettin' harder and harder to get a fake one..

Unfortunately? or Fortunately?

[Mars]

Gylden can certainly speak for himself but, I believe he and I are seeing eye to on on this topic. I would like to clarify what I think you are asking from my POV.

For me, English speaking ability was the first qualifier for me for communication with any woman. Again, because of my own misgivings. A pleasant side-effect of that is that most FSUW with English ability were of higher education.

For me there is no way I pursue a woman with whom I could not communicate with.

Actually, as it turns out, you, Gylden, and myself are in complete agreement.
It was just a matter of semantics and how Gylden first worded his idea.
Except for one date with one woman (that convinced me 100%), I have never pursued a woman where an interpreter would be needed.

[Gylden]

RW,
You are absolutely right about dubbed movies. Here in Norway they don't do it, either for movies or for TV series, and the result is that almost everyone here speaks good English.

[possum]

Unfortunately? or Fortunately?

Yes, because now you have to pay not once but several times over the course of 4-5 years..

[vwrw]

It's not the reason.

I see I am not  the only one who like to contradict. 
Sorry to disappoint you, but unless you are a mind-reader, you cannot know what are and what are not the reasons for MY beliefs.
Certainly, the placement of a pupils in German and French classes is not the only reason why educated FSUW do not speak English, rather it is one of many reasons. Yet, to say that what I said is not reason at all is not sensible.

[acrzybear]

Actually, it has more to do with the Russian Soviet mentality that says if someone lacks a university diploma, it is either because they're completely dumb or completely lazy..

I've run into that line of thinking, especially in my profession.   

[Turboguy]

I know some guys approach is to find the pretty picture, qualify from the profile and pursue "that woman". That wasn't my approach. For me there is no way I pursue a woman with whom I could not communicate with.

As the say to each his own.  I have a feeling that one of the home page women from some of the high profile RW dating sites will have more men after her even if she is dumb as a brick than an average looking woman who is smart as can be.  My wife is one of the smartest women I have ever met but I am sure many people could be happy with a woman with average intelligence.

Very true. I have spent a career dealing with highly educated fools that couldn't pour piss from a boot.

I have to agree with that totally.  Education and intelligence don't always go hand in hand and intelligence and common sense also don't go hand in hand.

I also think people can be smart in different ways.  For example I don't consider myself dumb but languages never came easy for me.   I did manage to learn a fair amount of French, a little Spanish and a few words in Russian but had to work my tail off.   Someone may struggle learning English but once she does can be very capable of having in depth conversations about world affairs, philosophy, politics and my wife's favorite, poetry.

There can be many reasons someone doesn't know English.  Studying another language seems like it could be a common one.  If someone is intelligent and motivated they can learn English in time to be able to have good conversations and it won't take that long for them to be able to discuss more intellectual topics.  

[RussianWind]

I see I am not  the only one who like to contradict. 

I see it's normal practice on this forum to take every line as a personal attack. Boring. Relax, nobody bited you. Yet 

[vwrw]

 I have a feeling that one of the home page women from some of the high profile RW dating sites will have more men after her even if she is dumb as a brick than an average looking woman who is smart as can be.  

I think your feeling is correct. Confronted with a choice between a professional woman and a blue collar woman, men tent to choose a young, beautiful, and slender one.

[Sculpto]

I think your feeling is correct. Confronted with a choice between a professional woman and a blue collar woman, men tent to choose a young, beautiful, and slender one.

hahahaha!  good one!

[Faux Pas]

As the say to each his own.  I have a feeling that one of the home page women from some of the high profile RW dating sites will have more men after her even if she is dumb as a brick than an average looking woman who is smart as can be.  My wife is one of the smartest women I have ever met but I am sure many people could be happy with a woman with average intelligence.

I have to agree with that totally.  Education and intelligence don't always go hand in hand and intelligence and common sense also don't go hand in hand.

I also think people can be smart in different ways.  For example I don't consider myself dumb but languages never came easy for me.   I did manage to learn a fair amount of French, a little Spanish and a few words in Russian but had to work my tail off.   Someone may struggle learning English but once she does can be very capable of having in depth conversations about world affairs, philosophy, politics and my wife's favorite, poetry.

There can be many reasons someone doesn't know English.  Studying another language seems like it could be a common one.  If someone is intelligent and motivated they can learn English in time to be able to have good conversations and it won't take that long for them to be able to discuss more intellectual topics.  

No doubt the smokinhotkovas they display get much attention regardless of their intellect or profession. It is a very shallow world we live in. I did not intend to relay that beauty means no brains if that is the way you understood it. That is absolutely not the truth. I have ample proof of that. However, those guys that chase the beauty with no regards to communication or the intelligence of the woman truly do deserve what they get. Whatever that maybe. 

[SANDRO43]

RW, You are absolutely right about dubbed movies. Here in Norway they don't do it, either for movies or for TV series, and the result is that almost everyone here speaks good English.

I think it's rather the other way round, no dubbing because the locals ALREADY have a decent grasp of English. If not, movie and TV audiences would shrink considerably, and that's bad for business .

[ECOCKS]

I am continually amazed at a number of men looking for a FSU wife without language skills at all. How much does her degree worth if she can't say a word 

As several others are pointing out, people CAN and DO learn a new language when they understand they must.

Personally, I believe you need a common language in order to grow a relationship but fluency is not necessarily required. Of course, so many want to meet, fall in love, propose and start their paperwork in a 2 week trip that they effectively make a problem out of a challenge.

[ECOCKS]

Unfortunately, it's gettin' harder and harder to get a fake one..

Thankfully! Unfortunately, it's still very possible in Ukraine but at least they are making progress.

[Gylden]

Sandro, what you say has some logic to it, however after working here for so many years and discussing this with Norwegians I have come to the conclusion that yes they are taught some basic skills beginning very young and then through the opportunity provided by TV and movies without dubbing develop these basic skills.  So although they are taught some skill it is the media which is responsible for fully developing them. It is very funny to hear young kids quoting movie or TV lines when they play together. I worked in South America for a while also, there the young kids were taught basic English and could speak more or less, but it seemed that from the lack of the opportunity to use English those skills just disappear.

[ECOCKS]

Sandro, what you say has some logic to it, however after working here for so many years and discussing this with Norwegians I have come to the conclusion that yes they are taught some basic skills beginning very young and then through the opportunity provided by TV and movies without dubbing develop these basic skills.  So although they are taught some skill it is the media which is responsible for fully developing them. It is very funny to hear young kids quoting movie or TV lines when they play together. I worked in South America for a while also, there the young kids were taught basic English and could speak more or less, but it seemed that from the lack of the opportunity to use English those skills just disappear.

I see the same thing GLyden.

[possum]

For those who are outraged by my use of the word 'unfortunately' in regard to buying a fake university degree becoming more difficult, let me explain something to you.. Back in the late 90's - early 2000's it was commonplace among FSU folks to upgrade their socioeconomic statuses through the purchase of fake diplomas, whether they were primary or secondary higher education degrees, especially in fields they - the buyers - would never actually work in.. It was the cheaper less time consuming alternative to attending university on a daily basis.. 

Nowadays, that activity is being replaced by a far more dangerous, IMO, type of corruption, namely students buying grades and such off their professors, thus going through the motions of getting an education while doing their own thing, for the most part.. In most cases, these students only have to show up at uni once of twice a week for a couple of hours, or on test days and so forth.. How is this better than buying a diploma when everybody knows it's just for show, i.e. licensing purposes, liability issues etc?.

[I/O]

The definition of a traditional woman?

Probably. Reminds me, I need to give the ol' woman a bashin' cos she gets outer hand at times.

It is cool to have a wife for cleaning, cooking and humping with a red University diploma on a wall, isn't it. And more important she keeps silence

No comment.

[SANDRO43]

Gylden, I quite agree that exposure to enjoyable foreign material can be quite helpful in improving one's fluency - that's what happened to me with Walt Disney's comics when I was 12 and had just started learning English.

However, I got this impression of widespread Norwegian fluency in English from books mentioning the interactions between the British and the Norwegian resistance in WWII, a time of no TV and far fewer movies than now .

[Gylden]

Actually Sandro, it is my understanding that there were more everyday Norwegians that could speak some German during the war. It was the Norwegian merchant sailors who for the most use English. I think that the success of the underground though was a part of what inspired the Norwegians to place the strong emphasis to learn English and subsequently the decision of the state owned TV station concerning the dubbing.
The sister of my grandfather was in the underground up in the north, a very fascinating man, I have heard many stories.

[Aloe]

People definitely speak english because of TV. In flemish part of Belgium most of TV is in English with Dutch subtitles, so virtually everybody (under 60) speaks English. Now in french part of Belgium they dub the TV and everything is in French, and guess what, virtually nobody speaks English over there

[Aloe]

It does kinda suck tho that in a movie theater one third of screen is taken by dutch and french subtitles lol. But at least i can watch movies in english

[kievstar]

Aloe, within 10 years Belgium is being split into three parts.  Northern, Southern, and Brussels.  Brussels will become a Euro zone republic, the northern part (Flemish) which has all the money is tired of supporting the poor and lazy to the south.  This change will be very good for you and your husband.