First trip to Odessa, Ukraine in T-Minus 14 days!! Any advice?

[Law]

Hello Everyone,

My name is Law and I am a Black American, never married single in my mid 30's. After many months of dissatisfying results in the local dating scene I decided to take a huge chance and see what my luck will turn up overseas.

The hardest part for me was choosing where in the world to go. Well, for better or for worse, I've found the beauty of the women in the Ukraine to be absolutely mesmerizing. I've collected tons of data and I'm looking forward to seeing what all the hubbub is for myself.

I've booked the December Romance tour with AFA, and I'm cautiously optimistic. I've viewed the video testimonials, talk with several people from the agency, corresponded with several ladies, read some books and I'm very interested in seeing if my experience will resemble that of the other happy husbands.

My goal is to meet someone special in the two weeks that I'm there and work towards a marriage bound relationship with her over the next...how ever long it'll take. I'm not sure exactly how long or how difficult this will be, but for my first venture, I'm trying to keep an open mind and level head about the outcome.

Any thoughts on how to make the very most of my time?

Thanks in advance!

-L

[William3rd]

Check with some of the local agencies when you get there. You will find alot of women that do not patronize the socials and do not patronize AFA. Just dont let them know you are from the tour-that is a negative to many women.

[GoodOlBoy]

After many months of dissatisfying results in the local dating scene I decided to take a huge chance and see what my luck will turn up overseas.

I have a question, you are in your mid 30's and you have been dating for "many month's"? What have you been doing for the last 10-15 years?

Also, what else are you looking for besides a "mesmerizing" woman?

[Law]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

@ Willarm3rd- Being on a tour is a negative to some women, huh? Did not know this. Thanks for that! Any recommendations for agencies in Nikolaev or Kherson?

you are in your mid 30's and you have been dating for "many month's"? What have you been doing for the last 10-15 years?

My 30's took me by surprise. The last 10-15 years have been a 'golden age' for me professionally. I began seriously courting my career in my early 20's, and after a couple years of trade school and spending 10 years at 2 great companies- 15 years have flown past me in the proverbial 'blink of an eye'. And so here I am.

As far as romance goes *sigh* I've been paying more and more attention to that part of my life recently. I didn't think very seriously about relationships until my early 20's. And I had very little NO understanding about what it would take to find, make and hold on to a good relationship. I had concentrated so much on the 'other' parts of my life I always felt like the love of my life would (literally) just fall into my lap at the 'right' time. It seemed so easy for my friends and people around me. I thought it'd just be a matter of time...

A matter of time...

A large part of my time on the social scene has been spent finding out that most people are happy to find someone who mirrors them ethnically, intellectually, socially, etc. That's cool. But I had always been interested in women of different races and cultures than my own. After spending more and more time with non-Black women, marrying a non-Black woman has become a very strong preference. But finding a desirable quality of person is my current challenge.

what else are you looking for besides a "mesmerizing" woman?

I'm definitely looking for 'family material'. I don't have any strong preferences about her career, or her hobbies, just as long as they don't 'compete' for her time and attention too much from family (me) and children, when they eventually come. I am a pretty devout Christian, so the moral and spiritual dimension of her life is essential pretty important.

I'm no 'supermodel fanatic' but beauty is important to me, as I'm sure it is to most guys. I'm interested in getting to know ladies who are still in their early 20's while they are still naturally beautiful and genuine. Here in the states finding even a loose combination of those three characteristics seems impossible. Young, pretty, pious.

I could go into more details, but I hope this gives you a better idea of my situation.

Does anyone have any further thoughts about different ways I can try to meet people once I'm there? At this point I've bound myself pretty much to the AFA itinerary. Besides looking around for local agencies when I get there are there any other places I should go to (or avoid)?

Thanks!

-L

[Diplomacy]

Law:

You do realize a Black American is going to be rare for a lack of a better term in Ukraine?  I think Odessa may be a little different in the sense it is a Port City.  

Have you talked to anyone that is black and been to Ukraine?  Any members have experience in that department?  How do they react to it?

Maybe there is nothing to discuss in the matter, but at least we can get that answer also.



  

[Law]

Law:

You do realize a Black American is going to be rare for a lack of a better term in Ukraine?  

Ha ha, Yes I've heard. Will this be an advantage or a disadvantage, in your opinion? Are people in the Ukraine generally 'tolerant' or open minded?

-L

[kievstar]

People in Ukraine do not trust black men.  Some do not trust white American men.

My suggestion is go to Kiev.  Kiev is a little more open minded.  Your going to have a very hard time meeting a serious women in Ukraine unless your rich and in good shape. 

However, when Lenny Kravitz was in Kiev I went to his after concert party and many girls were interested in him.  But they knew he was rich.

[aikorob]

Law,
My wife is from Odessa; and she says that she knows many black people living there. They were originally Africans (and their descendants) who were welcomed during Communist times, and decided to stay instead of returning home.
Also, Diplomacy is right, black sailors from the port are not a rare occurance.

As far as agencies-Adam & Eva on Deribasovskaya Street has a good reputation. In all of my dealings with her, Natasha (the owner) has been honest. Athena agency is another good one.

[Diplomacy]

Law:

I have nothing for you on that front.  I just would be careful of the difference of good enough to date, and some I would marry. 

One way to find out for sure is to go there.  Just stay clear of drunk teenagers, they are looking for trouble sometimes. 

You only need to find one, the rest of them do not matter.  It looks like a stacked deck forming from Kiev's post.  I worry about you being fed to the sharks on a tour.  Think with the head on your shoulders.

Nothing wrong with going there and getting a feel for things.  Ask better questions and you get better answers.  Watch the eyes, when they are talking.  Ask the questions, and I am going to be absolutely get it with both barrels from Jack.  Take your time, if you find one that you feel is what you are looking for.

I am engaged to a woman that was a blind date from mutual friends.  They were right we hit it off perfect.  So I can tell you what agency is a money pit for sure.

I would read every last post you can until you leave. 

I can tell you Jack is a great guy, PM him and get his advice.  I have met him in person and he knows what he is talking about.  Get another card in your deck.  He is heading back to Ukraine soon. 

Maybe you can use airfare and lodging of tour, but meet him.  At least with him it is money well spent.  At a social, pro daters and good women will be tougher to find. 

[Faux Pas]

Law,

There were a couple of black guys on the forum a year or so ago undergoing the same quest. I don't recall either of their names. You may want to try a search of the forum and see what comes up. IIRC one of them was going to Odessa and even did somewhat of a trip report when he returned. Seems he met a Ukrainian woman in the US and was impressed enough to want to see it for himself. Another was a black guy from Britian that married, had babies and last time I saw him posting, seemed very happy.

There was also much debate on the racism aspect in the FSU. Don't kid yourself it does exist. Racism is not the taboo in the eastern bloc that it is in other areas. Seems there have been quite a few black guys that were successful. Good Luck!

[groovlstk]

Law,

Here's a Trip Report from a black man who visited Ukraine not long ago:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7848.0

[Law]

I am truly grateful for the replies.
My trip's already booked for the Odessa tour, and I've written to many people saying I'm coming, so....I definitely owe everyone a trip report if when I return. ;p

People in Ukraine do not trust black men. 

Good move. I don't trust them either.

Law,
My wife is from Odessa; and she says that she knows many black people living there.

As far as agencies-Adam & Eva on Deribasovskaya Street has a good reputation. Athena agency is another good one.

That's awesome! And thanks for referencing the agencies! I will be sure to look them both up!

You only need to find one, the rest of them do not matter.  It looks like a stacked deck forming from Kiev's post.  I worry about you being fed to the sharks on a tour.  Think with the head on your shoulders.

Do you mean I only need to find one agency, or one gal? "Being fed to the sharks" is a new term for me.  Could you please explain how or why I'd be 'fed to sharks'?

I can tell you Jack is a great guy, PM him and get his advice. Get another card in your deck.  He is heading back to Ukraine soon. 

Maybe you can use airfare and lodging of tour, but meet him.  At least with him it is money well spent.  At a social, pro daters and good women will be tougher to find. 

I'll definitely seek this 'Jack' person out. The AFA tour has a few events that I want to try to attend. But I'll try to break away and meet people outside of the AFA.

So, should I be seeking a 'pro-dater' or avoiding them?
Thanks to every one for helping me with this.

-L

[Law]

Here's a Trip Report from a black man who visited Ukraine not long ago:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7848.0

AWESOME!! Many, many thanks Groovlstk!

[UTRO]

So, should I be seeking a 'pro-dater' or avoiding them?

By All means avoid them!! Obviously you're not familiar with this term. It's a lady who is extremely attractive and simply dates Foreigners because she can and because they will give her anything she asks for. She dates rich foreigners and domestics for materialism, not for a relationship. She has no intention to marry. Well, unless you are a millionaire

Good Luck Law!

[Diplomacy]

Being fed to the sharks is a pirate term by origin as far as I can tell.  It means forced to walk the plank and fall into the water.  The girls at the socials I would be willing to bet are like the girl in the trip report with $40 cab fare needed.  They know how to tell you what you want to hear.  Then when they feel the game is over, will just try to find another man to pay for lifestyle.

It goes as far as being a game to parade a foreigner and be the envy of their friends sometimes.  Not saying all the women are that way at the social, just greater chance.  So by your own admission, you played the corporate raider game.  Looked up and said Oh crap where did the years go?  Fair?

That type of woman would have owned you if you had not found the board, before going to the social.  Most likely had sex with you, you would take that as being intimate, chemistry, and real feeling towards you.  She does, she really feels you are good for a few more nights on the town with stupid American. 

Maybe lead you on for some gifts, and tell you what you want to hear.  You paid to go to trade school to learn from someone educated right?  You are out matched and outplayed at a social.

That is shark food.

Think of the money you pay someone as insurance at this point.  You need someone that can be trusted, your moral compass, and instincts.  You spent a lot on the trip, be smart and get some trip insurance.  It does not have to be Jack, but find a translator, anything at this point that can be trusted.

My friend met his wife on a tour 10 years ago.  The socials were good then, but now have a bad stigma amongst the "good"women.  Maybe good time party girls is a fair way to describe many at the socials?

I have just heard plenty about them chatting with the women there.  Sex tours, and  just look to pay girl working in hotel and save money were a couple answers.

It is not a matter of just the women at the social but also the women who hear you are on tour.

[Sculpto]

Law,
First of all best of luck on yoru trip.  

Considering your heritage it is probably not a bad thing you are going on a tour as it will give you a safer/softer intro to Ukraine.  I personally think Odessa is an awesome city and think you will have fun there.

You will find a mixed bag regarding race.  Some people will not even notice while you may experience some negatives from others.  If you stick to the center you should not encounter any threatening hostility from anyone.  I saw several Africans when I was there.

Women will love or hate you.  When I first went to Donetsk I became good friends with a couple of Nigerians who had been there a long time.  The girls frankly loved them as they were considered exotic.  Odessa is not Donetsk though and the "exotic" may not be so interesting there.  I would also say you may find women do not take you as seriously for a long term/marriage situation as they would consider an affair with a Black man but maybe not a marriage.  I have nothing to base that on except a "feeling" and observations from my Nigerian friends.

I should add that men were not so friendly towards my Nigerian friends and they did live with a certain amount of fear, specifically of young drunk guys.  

Hey, who remembers Elnara from Yalta?  There is a profile of hers on some site that claims she is looking only for an African American!

[UTRO]

p.s Liked your Website LAWrence!

[Law]

Being fed to the sharks is a pirate term by origin as far as I can tell.  It means forced to walk the plank and fall into the water.  The girls at the socials I would be willing to bet are like the girl in the trip report with $40 cab fare needed.  They know how to tell you what you want to hear.  Then when they feel the game is over, will just try to find another man to pay for lifestyle.

It goes as far as being a game to parade a foreigner and be the envy of their friends sometimes.  Not saying all the women are that way at the social, just greater chance.  So by your own admission, you played the corporate raider game.  Looked up and said Oh crap where did the years go?  Fair?

That type of woman would have owned you if you had not found the board, before going to the social.  Most likely had sex with you, you would take that as being intimate, chemistry, and real feeling towards you.  She does, she really feels you are good for a few more nights on the town with stupid American. 

Maybe lead you on for some gifts, and tell you what you want to hear.  You paid to go to trade school to learn from someone educated right?  You are out matched and outplayed at a social.

That is shark food.

sharks, eh? *shudder*
Th-Thanks, Diplomacy.... >_<;;;;

Are they easy to spot?

Re: Corporate raider game? I think you misunderstood me. I'm a lil' indian, not a chief . I've been a worker bee for the last 12 years of my career....

[Sculpto]

Law..
you might have noticed already there is a bit of bias against socials.  Nevertheless since you are already committed you can still make the best of it if you are smart.  You can learn a lot about how Ukrainians flirt and if you are feeling any lack of confidence about your "game" it is a good place to practice.

As others have mentioned if you go out on your own DO NOT let anyone know you are there on a tour.  That would work against you in a big way. 

Do not be shy with the other men on the trip.  Compare notes and seek advice.  Venture out on your own either using an agency or try to make some connections using Flirt or some other free site.  There are a lot of Odessa girls on the free sites.  Don't worry too much about the langauge.. I never found it difficult to find people who speak English.

People in Odessa are generally really friendly but can also be very clever if they are out to take advantage.  I assume you  have some degree of street smarts and you will want to use them, but don't be paranoid.  If you are muscially inclined you can have a big advantage as Odessa is a big music city.  I have a good friend from there who is a musician but unfortunately she is now living in Kiev so I can not offer her contact info. 

There are a few sites dedicated to Odessa travel and at least one expat site.  It really is an awesome town.

[Law]

I cannot say "thank you" enough.
So if I write to more ladies from other sites other than AFA's registry I SHOULDN'T let them know that I'm traveling to the Ukraine on a tour, right? What about gals I meet on the AFA site?

Here's another question. What are some differences between a U.S. based agency and a foreign agency? Are there pros/cons to either? What do you all think about writing to more people before I go? Or should I just wait until I arrive and visit a local agency?

-L

[ScottinCrimea]

You've come to the right place and are asking a lot of good questions.  Before you go, read as much here as possible and then read some more.

I've never been to a social, but from what I've heard, your chances of finding a pious girl ther are very slim.  As far as being black, you will find plenty of girls that are interested in you, just because you are something different, but don't take that for more than it is.  You can find plenty of girls that will flirt with you and date you, but very few that will consider a long term relationship due to a number of things such as family pressure, peer pressure, society views, etc.  I didn't say none, but very few.  I don't mean to discourage you, just point out the realities.

Your odds of marrying a hot young pious white woman from there are about the same there as they are in the US.  The one advantage you have there is that you can meet a lot more, so ultimately it becomes a numbers game.

You can be successful, as evidenced by those we know who have been, but unfortunately, your race is one strike against you and you will need to have other qualities that make up for it.  Go with the positive outlook you've shown so far, but don't lose sight of what you're looking for.  There are plenty of "the other type" there and it can be easy to settle for the first hot skirt that flashes you a smile, losing sight of those other qualities that you say are important to you and important for a marriage.

[William3rd]

I cannot say "thank you" enough.
So if I write to more ladies from other sites other than AFA's registry I SHOULDN'T let them know that I'm traveling to the Ukraine on a tour, right? What about gals I meet on the AFA site?

Here's another question. What are some differences between a U.S. based agency and a foreign agency? Are there pros/cons to either? What do you all think about writing to more people before I go? Or should I just wait until I arrive and visit a local agency?

-L

AFA has the reputation in many areas of being a sex tour agency. Girls outside do not think their clients are serious suitors. Write to girls before you go.

The US agency vs. foreign agency is primarily BS advertising. Use a reputable foreign agency and you will be fine. Some guys using AFA have lost thousands to green card girls-just like the guys using  less than reputable foreign agencies.


The AFA pornography links have also been discussed. Kinda makes you wonder what you are getting

There was a program on BBC posted on here last month. Currently, the tour director  featured in the documentary Elina Redburn has filed for divorce in Arizona against her husband Ron. Allegations of domestic violence are flying. This is all public record now.

Elina has asked for help for those tour guys on AFA tours to Kiev and Odessa in 2003-2005 who witnessed some of the incidents of DV that occurred overseas to contact her. It is relevent to her custody situation. (Non-VAWA-she is a citizen) also real- I saw some of it in 2003 in Kiev.

[Law]

Your odds of marrying a hot young pious white woman from there are about the same there as they are in the US.  The one advantage you have there is that you can meet a lot more, so ultimately it becomes a numbers game.

Hmmm. Does anyone know of any "Christian" International Introduction services? I read a book by the title "Russian Wife. Your greatest blessing or your biggest mistake." It was authored by a husband and wife and they mentioned an introduction service- but not by name.

Numbers game... got it.   
Green card girls...ugh...

Anyone know of any good Christian churches in the Odessa, Nikolaev areas?

-L

[kievstar]

Another thing about AFA is when girls want to get their listing removed they do not remove them.  So many girls on AFA are married or have boyfriends already.

I have not met one sincere girl say anything positive about AFA.  However, the materialistic girls I know love AFA. 

Does anybody know who runs AFA?  Where their head office is located. 

[Law]

A Foreign Affair
John Adams- President
http://www.loveme.com/information/John_Adams.shtml

7227 North 16th Street, Suite 240
Phoenix, Arizona 85020
(602) 553-8178