RM as Marriage Partners?

[Jooky]

Except, I don't wonder about it. I feel absolutely sure that these two men and other's like them, are going to continue mucking up the FSU for serious WM who are truly looking for a wife.

The concept of 'mucking up the FSU for the serious WM' really cracks me up.

I have a serious question for the guys out here. Do you think that in general Russians admire:

Western men who attend events where a handful of men pick and choose from a line up of Russian women, like a cattle call.

Western men who interview a dozen or more women and pick a bride from the lot at the end of the week.

Western men who become hastily engaged and married to a woman they can't directly communicate with.

Western men who can pick and choose from catalogs of good looking women much younger than themselves.

Western men who pay to get hooked up with last minute dates with the women of their choice, who are expected to drop whatever they are doing to placate this man.

Western men who arrive in the FSU unkempt and poorly dressed for dates with women who spend their last kopek to make themselves presentable and attractive.

Western men who arrive in the FSU feeling superior to the local men who are nothing but a bunch of unfaithful and abusive drunks.

Western men who flaunt their cash in the hopes of rescuing a poor damsel in distress who is in turn indebted to him for his generosity.

Western men who break all normal conventions of dating and marriage in the FSU in favor of engaging in the 'process' of finding a Russian bride.

Men who by virtue of being 'Western' feel that they have the right to go to a foreign land and claim a bride, typically much younger and more beautiful than they would find back home.

These are the normal actions of serious bride seeking ambassadors. Do you honestly believe that Russians in general admire and respect Western bride seekers? Do these actions paint Western men in a favorable light?

If a slew of (mostly awkward and socially inept) foreign men came to your country claiming the prettiest girls as their brides by right of their (slightly) superior wealth and simple virtue of being a foreigner, how would you feel about that?

What would offend you more: a man coming to your hometown for business and dating women while he's there, or a man coming to your hometown specifically to take away your beautiful women because you are too much of a loser to win them over?  

[Sculpto]

The concept of 'mucking up the FSU for the serious WM' really cracks me up.

I have a serious question for the guys out here. Do you think that in general Russians admire:

Western men who attend events where a handful of men pick and choose from a line up of Russian women, like a cattle call.

Western men who interview a dozen or more women and pick a bride from the lot at the end of the week.

Western men who become hastily engaged and married to a woman they can't directly communicate with.

Western men who can pick and choose from catalogs of good looking women much younger than themselves.

Western men who pay to get hooked up with last minute dates with the women of their choice, who are expected to drop whatever they are doing to placate this man.

Western men who arrive in the FSU unkempt and poorly dressed for dates with women who spend their last kopek to make themselves presentable and attractive.

Western men who arrive in the FSU feeling superior to the local men who are nothing but a bunch of unfaithful and abusive drunks.

Western men who flaunt their cash in the hopes of rescuing a poor damsel in distress who is in turn indebted to him for his generosity.

Western men who break all normal conventions of dating and marriage in the FSU in favor of engaging in the 'process' of finding a Russian bride.

Men who by virtue of being 'Western' feel that they have the right to go to a foreign land and claim a bride, typically much younger and more beautiful than they would find back home.

These are the normal actions of serious bride seeking ambassadors. Do you honestly believe that Russians in general admire and respect Western bride seekers? Do these actions paint Western men in a favorable light?

If a slew of (mostly awkward and socially inept) foreign men came to your country claiming the prettiest girls as their brides by right of their (slightly) superior wealth and simple virtue of being a foreigner, how would you feel about that?

What would offend you more: a man coming to your hometown for business and dating women while he's there, or a man coming to your hometown specifically to take away your beautiful women because you are too much of a loser to win them over?  

Now there is a dose of reality.. Thanks Jooky. 

[GoodOlBoy]

What would offend you more: a man coming to your hometown for business and dating women while he's there, or a man coming to your hometown specifically to take away your beautiful women because you are too much of a loser to win them over?  

Define "dating".

If by "dating", you mean "poking" every women in the city you can, then I would obviously say this is the most repulsive of the 2 scenarios you propose.

Concerning your second scenario, I personally have no control over somebody who thinks they are a loser.

BTW...I could really careless what opinion Russian Men may have about me. Besides our feelings for each other, my wife left Russia because of Russian Men's bad behavior.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Jooky, i understand you line of thinking, but ultimately it doesn't matter if a man comes specifically to visit a woman or if he also has some business there and wants to develop that relationship. What matters is the way he goes about it. If he is honest, sincere and doesn't procrastinate - then great and it doesn't matter if he found her through the agency, events, clubs, friends or street! If in both of those circumstances he behaves in a dishonest, irresponsible way - then too bad.

Yes, most of those men are complete loosers, and that's why many good foreigners can love, care and provide for these beautiful women. I personally have more respect for an honest good foreigner who knows what he is doing and comes specifically to visit his woman and nothing else. And I absolutely can't tolerate those who visit many women at a time, mix this with business, tourism or whatever else. But if both sides are ok with it, then that's ok.

[Jooky]

BTW...I could really careless what opinion Russian Men may have about me.

The expression is "I couldn't care less", but thanks Good Old Boy for revealing what a lousy ambassador you are for our country. Russia is not a country composed solely of women. It's the misguided attitude of disrespect for Russian men held by men like you that does far worse for the reputation of Western men than Pike's 'poking' around.

What matters is the way he goes about it

Yes! I absolutely agree with you, Anastassia. I personally would not date as Pike does, but from what I've read he does not act dishonestly, irresponsibly or with condescention and contempt for the people he meets in his travels. I can't say that for the majority of 'serious' bride seekers out there.

[GoodOlBoy]

thanks Good Old Boy for revealing what a lousy ambassador you are for our country.

I don't know what kind of ambassador I was for America when I went to Russia.

I do know one thing. When I lived for a couple of months with my wife in Siberia, I met several of her friends (ladies). My wife still stays in contact and visits with these ladies when she goes home to Siberia. Some of these ladies still ask her if there are any other men like myself (before you say it, I am not bragging either), available for a serious relationship.

I can't help but take this as a compliment. And no, I am not a rich old man. I am just an Ol' Virginia boy who still opens doors for ladies and says..... yes ma'am/no ma'am.

So, as I said before, I could really careless (unconcerned) what RM think about me.

[Jooky]

When I lived for a couple of months with my wife in Siberia

How were your interactions with men during those months? Or did you not interact with men at all?

You say you act like a gentlemen and your wife's friends admired you. I believe it. How do you know that women don't feel the same about Pike? Do you think he's able to bed so many women by acting like an a**hole or a jerk?

The way I see it, when you disrespect Russian men, you are disrespecting the fathers, brothers, sons, uncles, cousins, family and friends of the women we are supposed to hold in such high regard. That's a insult to these women and to the country in general. You think you are superior to Russian men. It's this attitude of superiority that does the most damage to the reputation of Western men.

Again, it's 'I couldn't care less'. At least get that right. 

[GoodOlBoy]

It's the misguided attitude of disrespect for Russian men held by men like you...

Sir, I guarantee you that my "attitudes" about Russian Men are not misguided.

I have heard from the lips of MANY RW/UW in my area (Miami) about the bad behavior (some pretty bad stories) of RM and because of this behavior why these ladies felt that they had no choice but to leave their Motherland.

Not my words.

[GoodOlBoy]

Again, it's 'I couldn't care less'. At least get that right. 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/careless

[GoodOlBoy]

You think you are superior to Russian men.

Given the definition of superior: Superior is an individual or position at a higher level in the hierarchy than another.



Then Sir, I am superior to no one.

[Misha]

What do they have to gain by fabricating stories to post here?

Quite simple: egos to flatter.

I read Mendeleyev's account and completely agree, the man is despicable. This isn't the situation with either Pike or ambach. Why be accusatory and blame them for that mans actions? Because they are all American?

How do we know? Again, my original question to Ambach was what his ex-fiancée felt when he broke it off. He answered that she was heart broken. Was this sincere? I don't know. The impression that I get is that men are quite often cavalier in their dealings with women. They worry about scammers and pro-daters, yet rarely do I hear here questions as to whether some women might have been hurt along the way.

Well you have got me here. Would I impose my ethics and views on scammers? No. But I wouldn't on anyone else either

The standard I would apply is quite simple: "Do onto others what you would want others to do onto your sister, daughter or granddaughter." Call it thinking before acting and being concerned about the feelings of others.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Jooky, it's a futile argument for you if you are going to defend RM. Hahaha! Are you serious? Why didn't they then stay and marry those very good Russian fathers, brothers, sons and cousins? Why?

A Good Russian Man is a total oxymoron in my opinion. There are much more RW who are suffering from RM in every way possible, than those who are totally happy about their Russian husbands. I am going to defend GoodOlBoy here. 

[Misha]

It's this attitude of superiority that does the most damage to the reputation of Western men.

I agree with you here. I find that it is also important to respect men as well as women. I do have issues with what some RM do, but I have met many wonderful Russian men over the years. An attitude of superiority is  not good when traveling, and humility is a good virtue when in another country.

[GoodOlBoy]

but I have met many wonderful Russian men over the years.

Misha, please don't take this the wrong way. I like your postings.

But Russian men will treat another man (Russian, American, etc.) much differently then they will treat their own Russian Women.

Russian Men can be VERY cruel to their women.

I have seen it and heard it for myself.

[Jooky]

Holy crap! Did you actually have to look up the word 'careless' in the dictionary?

Your expression "I could careless" is incorrect. Hint: The word you looked up in NOT In the common expression. Hint number two: The word you looked up (careless) is an adjective, not a verb.



I work with Russian men on a daily basis. Your attitudes are misguided by a group of jaded women who tell you what you want to hear. Sure there are Russian men who do whatever bad things you've heard, but there are plenty of men here in the US that do the same. There are good and bad everywhere and even if there were more bad than good in your views that doesn't give you the right to go to another country with an attitude of disrespect.

Why didn't they then stay and marry those very good Russian fathers, brothers, sons and cousins? Why?

Anastassia, as you know, most Russian women DO stay in Russia and marry these men. Many are happily married. Many are not. Yes, I've heard Russian women complain about their men, but I've heard American and European women complain just as much. Women simply like to complain.  

Don't you have Russian men in your family that you admire?

Do you think it's ok to go to another country with an attitude of disrespect for the men there? How are you an 'ambassador of goodwill'?

[GoodOlBoy]

Women simply like to complain.

  :whirling:

[GoodOlBoy]

...jaded women who tell you what you want to hear.

Sir, in your opinion, what is it that you think "I want to hear".

Me personally, I just like to hear the truth.

[groovlstk]

I don't really buy the "most RM are bad" theory, also. Nearly all of the RW my wife and I know who are living in the US prefer and seek out RM to date and marry. Some are open to dating American men but by and large their preference is as clear as day. I've heard various opinions from the single women on this - some say American men are "like children" or don't know enough about romance and sex, but it's hard to know if they're telling me the truth or soft-pedaling to avoid offending me by criticizing my countrymen.

An important factor to consider is that nearly all of our female Russian friends did not arrive in the US via K visas, and dating foreigners was not on their list of reasons for coming here.

To get back on topic:

Pike, you must be getting soft these days.

WARNING.  This trip report discusses adult relationships.  If you do not think it is appropriate to post such and/or if you do not like to read such, then do not read further.

Usually your disclaimer wards off homosexuals and men who put women on pedestals. Should we take it that you are now welcoming input on your TR from both of those groups, now? 

[Jooky]

What would motivate a RW to select Pike for a short sexual encounter when there are plenty of younger RM willing to perform?

Sure. I can answer that. From what I have seen and what I have heard, there are not plenty of younger Russian men willing to perform with average older women.

Why would a Russian man go after an average older woman when there are plenty of younger and prettier women willing to perform?  

My guess is that Pike knows how to these women feel good about themselves and enjoy their time with him (and I don't mean by making promises). He must have some sort of charm to him to be able to date so many women and remain friends with quite a few. No?

How did I portray American men as losers? I listed actions that most here see as standard procedure and I threw in one snarky comment about most bride seekers being awkward and socially inept. After all the stories (like jfahrina's recent thread) you've read on these boards, do you really disagree?

Good Old Boy, I'm telling you that Russian men in general are not as bad as what you've heard. I have nothing to gain or lose by telling you so. In my experience it's the honest truth, but you sure don't seem to like hearing it.  

[Misha]

Misha, please don't take this the wrong way. I like your postings.

But Russian men will treat another man (Russian, American, etc.) much differently then they will treat their own Russian Women.

Russian Men can be VERY cruel to their women.

No, these are men that I know and have spent time with them and their families in their homes. They were some of the nicest and kindest men that I have ever met anywhere and they clearly loved and respected their wives and families. However, they did share certain traits: most married young and stayed married. True, some/many Russian men are cruel to their women, but I have seen my share of Canadian male and female cruelty as well.

The main thing is Russia is substance abuse. Sadly, I have seen the ravages of alcohol abuse on many families.

[GoodOlBoy]

Do you think it's ok to go to another country with an attitude of disrespect for the men there?

I do believe that when you go to another country, you are an Ambassador for America.

IMHO your behavior should indicate this.

But that doesn't mean that when you go to another country where you know women are repressed and being treated disrespectfully by their men, whether it be Russia or one of the Arab countries, you have to accept this behavior.

Of course I cannot change the behavior of a country's male population. But, by example, the leadership (PM/President) could.

So, let's start with the real top man in Russia (Putin). He is a 56 year old former KGB monster. He disrespects his wife and marriage. Openly, runs around Moscow day and night with a 25-year-old former Olympic gymnast named Alina Kabayeva.

Kabayeva now occupies a position in the State Duma, thanks to Putin.

A shining example of leadership and husbandry for his fellow RM to follow.



In Lyudmila's (Putin's wife) own words:

Russia's Putin an unrepentant domestic tyrant, his wife says September 5, 2002 AFP

Russian President Vladimir Putin may openly profess his pride in his KGB past, but his wife Lyudmila recently disclosed a less-publicized aspect of his personality. According to the First Lady, her husband is a bona fide male chauvinist.

He has two basic rules: "a woman must do everything at home" and "you should not a praise a woman, otherwise, you will spoil her," she confided to journalist Oleg Blotski in "Vladimir Putin: The Road to Power."

[GoodOlBoy]

The main thing is Russia is substance abuse. Sadly, I have seen the ravages of alcohol abuse on many families.

Misha, it is sad. I saw it also. It is rampant in Russia.

[GoodOlBoy]

In my experience it's the honest truth, but you sure don't seem to like hearing it.  

Sir, it amazes me how your "experience" and "honest truth" about Russian Men and the opinion of MANY RW/UW about their countrymen's behavior, can be so Diametrically Opposed ?

[Jooky]

Good Old Boy, there is no reason to be amazed.

The explanation is simple. You associate with women who consciously left Russia for one reason or other. Perhaps the Russian men in their lives were abusive and oppressive and that was their particular reason for wanting to leave Russia. Or perhaps they say this a convenient excuse to cover their more practical economic reasons for wanting out of Russia.

You are dealing with a small subset of Russian culture. The vast majority of Russian women do not seek foreign husbands and do not leave Russia. It makes sense that the women who have had bad experiences with men, be it their father, boyfriend, husband or men in general are going to seek a foreign husband and have bad things to say about men back home.

The women who have good experiences with Russian men are not going to be living in Miami or looking for men through an agency. They're going to be happy living in Russia.

Life is hard in Russia. Substance abuse is rampant, yes. There are abusive men, yes. I think men are more open about cheating and having mistresses than in the US. But there are plenty of good men along with the bad. This is why I say your generalization about Russian men is misguided.

You say you spent several months in Russia. How did you interact with the men you met? Is your wife close to the men in her family, or were they abusive to her? What about her friends? Did they come from happy close knit families or broken families?

Did you see men repressing and abusing women while you were in Russia? If so, did you stand up for the women?

Yet, I doubt this is whom Pike is dating.

We'll probably never know for sure. 

Gator, just read Pike's latest post (so I can tie my rants in with his trip report )

He describes his date, recalling the details of her manner of dress and make up. He's impressed, she looks great to him though he admits she's not a true beauty. I think Pike is the kind of guy that finds beauty in subtleties most men (especially younger horn dogs) completely overlook, and women appreciate this! You pegged him as a Don Juan. A lot of women like an encounter with a Don Juan every once in a while. They like a bit of attention even if they know it won't lead to something serious.

So while many of you are upset with Pike's numbers, if he's making these women happy, I'm not bothered. I think, better him, not me. 

[Misha]

The women who have good experiences with Russian men are not going to be living in Miami or looking for men through an agency. They're going to be happy living in Russia.

True enough. The majority of these women also married young and were never divorced. It should be pretty self-evident that a happily married woman will not be looking for men through an agency or dating site or any other means. I am just fortunate in that my wife did not find a Russian man that she wanted to marry.

So while many of you are upset with Pike's numbers, if he's making these women happy, I'm not bothered. I think, better him, not me. 

Well, that is a big if, and you have to take Pike's word for that. If you think he is credible, go ahead. I have my doubts as I have noted. It is not the numbers that bothers me, but the attitude. Reminds me too much of the type of boys in high school who had that need to always affirm their masculinity through their alleged conquests. I guess those who can do (and shut up about it), and those who can't try to teach on forums LOL.