Specific Ukrainian Woman

[AramisLux]

you do realize that billions of dollars are spent on computer programs sold to consumers? it is a bigger market than everything that is spent on hollywood movies and pro sports.

as for this quote:

As others told you, until you meet them, they are nothing more than photos. How can someone be a friend to you when you have only chatted online?

would you be surprised to learn how many people have left their spouses only to marry someone they met, chatted with, and "fell in love with", using "World Of Warcraft" or "Second Life" on the internet? i have a new sister in law. her first husband did this very thing to her while she was married to him.

do you assume that everyone at Bride dot ru is 100% real or not a con artist? I will grant you, of course, that Bride dot ru is far more "real" than hrb. that is just obvious.

[Misha]

do you assume that everyone at Bride dot ru is 100% real or not a con artist? I will grant you, of course, that Bride dot ru is far more "real" than hrb. that is just obvious.

I didn't assume anything, just met them in real life. Computer games and virtual reality is nice, but when it comes to women, I prefer mine real and in the flesh 

[AramisLux]

i don't understand anyone saying i am obsessed with Zhanna. i broke up with her many months ago. i could be writing to her. or someone writing her letters even right now if i wanted to.

so where do you see any kind of "obsession"?

[Misha]

i don't understand anyone saying i am obsessed with Zhanna. i broke up with her many months ago. i could be writing to her. or someone writing her letters even right now if i wanted to.

so where do you see any kind of "obsession"?

In my world, you can only "break up" with a woman you actually met 

[Daveman]

As I sit here reading all being said,
Visions of butterfly nets dance through my head.
The men in white suite with newfangled pajamas
Come for the men staring at HRB mama's.

Screaming and kicking with arms tied behind
Somehow clutching the monitor losing their minds
That this babe from the net with gargantuan bust
Has invaded their brains with hypnotic lust.

Forget the video, email and phone,
You'll just wind up broke, bedraggled, alone
Get on that plane and see with your eyes
That reality is far better than agency lies.

[AramisLux]

Misha:

you know exactly what i meant. if you need to play little symantec games, go somewhere else. you are just tedious and ridiculous.

i wrote to her for a while and then i moved on. call it whatever the hell you like. knock yourself out.

[Daveman]

Misha:

you know exactly what i meant. if you need to play little symantec games, go somewhere else. you are just tedious and ridiculous.

i wrote to her for a while and then i moved on. call it whatever the hell you like. knock yourself out.

Aramis, if you don't mind the question, how old are you?

[ScottinCrimea]

Aramus, I am going to be brutally honest here.  You are arguing with men who have had many dealings with these agencies, who have spent much time in the FSU and who have met many of these women.  The fact that you disagree with what they are saying suggests a mind that is not open to hearing the truth.  You are even considering moving to Ukraine never having even set foot there.  Ukraine is a VERY different place and the women you have been exposed to through the agencies are VERY different than the women you are used to and in many ways not typical of FSUW women who have no exposure to the agencies.  This is not a fantasy world where every woman is beautiful and receptive to your approach and where the worries of the western world can be forgotten.  There is a certain mentality there that one who has not spent some time there can't even begin to imagine.  If you communicate with agency women such as you have done so far and go there with the preconceived notions that you seem to have, you will be eaten alive.  While I have very positive feelings about living in Ukraine, this is only due to having a unique woman, a unique situation and, to be honest, a unique MIL.  There are many men who have tried to have a successful marriage to an FSUW or who have tried to live in the FSU and have failed.  This forum has as members the best resource of those who have succeeded in one or the other and your best step forward was in joining.  Until you actually spend some time in the FSU, you really have no clue.  Whether this is in the form of a tour. a WMVM, a WOVO or whatever, it really doesn't matter, but you need to spend some time on the ground before you can have any sort of an opinion.  Until then, you can only relate things to Western life, Western women and Western ways of doing things, and that can get you into trouble very quickly.

As far as Zhana, she doesn't have the typical Russian look, but there's no question that she is hot.  I'm sure the photo is what attracted you to her in the first place, same as all the other guys who are communicating with her.  It seems she has the appropriate demeanor to not only attract the guys, but to keep them hanging on.  She's a great commodity for whatever agency she works for and I'm sure she is compensated very well for these qualities.

You have to think, what is there about you that is so unique that she would be interested in you.  No offense, but she is living in her native country, has an above average income, and she has the choice of many local men who, should she choose one, would provide much less disruption of her life and much less risk.  Why specifically would she be interested in you?

She is like the women in strip joints, who, for a small fee, will come on to a man, make him feel that he is desired by a beautiful woman and provide him the excitement that he is lacking in his life.  The bottom line, though, is that at the end of the song, she will move on to the next man with $20, seeking to make him feel the same way.  Of course you will walk way thinking that there is the potential for you, given the right words or circunstances, to take her home to be your one and only, but that just represents her skill at creating such feelings.

There are some great women in the FSU.  I know because I married one of them and have met many others.  I wish any man the happiness I have found.  But there are a lot of minefields out there for the naive and the uninformed.  I think the goal of most members here is to guide men through the minefield and to the promised land.  The rewards of finding a good woman to share your life with are worth all the education, expense and effort in any other way that it takes.  Just ask any OMB here.

[AramisLux]

i think there are some real misconception here. Zhanna is nothing to me. i exchanged some emails with her, and then moved on to other opportunities. the emails were fun. that's it. i went away from the experience with no delusions. i took it all with a grain of salt.

there may be those at this forum or somewhere else in this world that are infatuated with her. maybe they are trying to buy her lots of gifts, i don't know. that is their choice or their problem however you may wish to see it. i don't really care. i am only here to relate my experience with her. my experience was very normal. if she gives other men "the Stipper in the strip club experience", than they can deal with her on that level. she never once treated me that way. if she had treated me that way, our emails would have stopped forthwith and posthaste. people who have had experiences with her have posted here. more can post if they want to. post all you want to. it is nothing to me. if she takes money from guys that want to give her their money that is their business. it is not what i experienced with her. i bought her one box of candy. it was around the holidays. so what.

i am not one who is here trying to suggest or claim that hrb is a good site or even an honest one. i am not here defending hrb. i saw through their games early on. so what? i happen to think it is an interesting site. i have no interest in the hrb girls that are ridiculous (i assume you will know what i mean by that). maybe people at this forum like to use other sites. good for you. i can understand the reasons for using Bride dot ru or similar sites. they have their place in this big wide internet world. let's just all make our own choices. anyone who would like to give me some feedback about hrb, i am open to it.

so, what disagreements have we had here?

[1] some people think Zhanna is a 10; I don't
[2] someone here would like to suggest that i am obsessed with Zhanna; when i ask for some, or any, evidence of this, i get absolutely no evidence it; what i do get is a silly insult. if you want to back up your words with some real evidence, i will be happy to hear you out. i find it interesting that the poster who made this accusation has had nothing to say on this matter. because there is nothing to say, and he/she knows it. you can't have evidence of something that doesn't exist. i would like to think this forum is free of such silly, groundless accusations.
[3] some people don't like hrb; maybe i feel somewhat differently about hrb; i check out Bride dot ru and similar sites often.
[4] someone wanted to call Zhanna a prostitute; i only suggested that that was a little over the top - a poor choice of words.

regarding Zhanna, i think we all have our own opinion. a couple of us had experiences with her. a lot of other posters on this thread didn't but wanted to chime in with their own suggestions and input. ok i am glad there are so many posters with things to say. we have all been very much enlightened. it's good for all of us.

that's it; 4 disagreements or thereabouts. not much of an argument really. or did i miss something?

as for agencies: i had one suggest to me what they wanted from me, and i basically said "no thanks, i don't need you".

if i do move to Ukraine and i find that i don't like it there, i can move someplace else. i can live and learn. i know how to learn from my mistakes. i can go back to huntington beach where i was living one year ago if i want to.

[Daveman]

I am clearly in the wrong business...

[Gator]

[1] some people think Zhanna is a 10; I don't

However, you certainly were attracted to her or you would never have written her to begin with.   Please don't say you were attracted to her few words in her profile.  They were 100% trite.

[2] someone here would like to suggest that i am obsessed with Zhanna; when i ask for some, or any, evidence of this, i get absolutely no evidence it;

Your lingering thoughts reveal all:


Exhibit A – "i broke up with her many months ago."

You are articulate.  From an articulate person, this is clearly a Freudian slip.  In fact, it is way over the top.

Exhibit B - "with all of this talk about Zhanna going on, i am thinking a little bit about starting back up with her"

You wrote this after every RWD man who has been to the FSU says Zhanna's intentions are not good.  We do not know her, yet we can easily compare the agency, her “look”, the letter writing MO, etc. with that of the sincere women we have known.  The differences are stark. You will discover the same if you take a trip.

[3] some people don't like hrb; maybe i feel somewhat differently about hrb; i check out Bride dot ru and similar sites often.

The archives are replete with testimony against HRB. Stay with Bride.ru.  Also, join Elena's Models and send winks (EOI) to selected women.  Their responses will be a good barometer.

[4] someone wanted to call Zhanna a prostitute; i only suggested that that was a little over the top - a poor choice of words.

You are correct.  At times our words can be too cute when we try to make a point to men who do not listen to reason.  The accurate term for Zhanna is professional correspondent.  Happy?  The mere fact that you are defending her is more evidence of your point No. 2.

[kievstar]

Hi Gator,

If you go on Anastasia website you fill out city Odessa in search and sort on most beautiful first.  This girl is not within the first 100 girls in Odessa.  Which means her photos are better than real life or there is a guy like me rating her. She is not ugly but not my type.  I am probably not her type either. 

[Simoni]

Hi Gator,

If you go on Anastasia website you fill out city Odessa in search and sort on most beautiful first.  This girl is not within the first 100 girls in Odessa.  Which means her photos are better than real life or there is a guy like me rating her.

Don't believe for a moment that the "rank" of the girls comes from guys like us "rating" them.  The agency puts the girls in the rank order that will make them the most money. 

BTW-- that is inside info from an agency owner in Kharkiv.

[juggernaut]

I love threads like this.  The philosophers and peesychologists come out of the woodwork.

Juggernaut

[groovlstk]

I love threads like this.  The philosophers and peesychologists come out of the woodwork.

Juggernaut

Not to mention the various flavors of MOB losers.

[Misha]

i think there are some real misconception here. Zhanna is nothing to me. i exchanged some emails with her, and then moved on to other opportunities. the emails were fun. that's it.

so, what disagreements have we had here?

[1] some people think Zhanna is a 10; I don't
[2] someone here would like to suggest that i am obsessed with Zhanna;

Well, as I am the one who alluded to your seeming obsession, I will say that I still stand by my comment. Why do you keep bringing up whether Zhanna is a 10 or an 8? To be honest, I could care less. It is a nice photo, but if I wanted to look at nice photos, I could find those anywhere. But, you continually having to say that she is an 8 or whatever else, has a definite hint of sour grapes  If she were a woman that you had actually met in real life, I would likely have a bit more empathy.

[3] some people don't like hrb; maybe i feel somewhat differently about hrb; i check out Bride dot ru and similar sites often.

I am curious as to what you are looking for. Are you looking for a wife or a woman to chat with online?

[4] someone wanted to call Zhanna a prostitute; i only suggested that that was a little over the top - a poor choice of words.

Gator's post sums it up well IMHO.

regarding Zhanna, i think we all have our own opinion. a couple of us had experiences with her.

You paid to chat with her online.

if i do move to Ukraine and i find that i don't like it there, i can move someplace else. i can live and learn. i know how to learn from my mistakes. i can go back to huntington beach where i was living one year ago if i want to.

Ummm, do you have a nice trust fund? Do you have a job that will pay you even if you are living overseas? If you read the news, you will see that Ukraine is being hit quite hard by a financial crisis. What exactly would you do in Ukraine or any other country? You likely don't know the language, and I seriously doubt you have the skills that could land you a high-paying job as an expat in Ukraine or elsewhere in the FSU. What is your goal to find a woman and move in with her and have her work to feed you. Trust me, if a woman in Ukraine or Russia or elsewhere wanted that in the FSU, they would have not problem finding a local guy

[juggernaut]

Not to mention the various flavors of MOB losers.

Are you looking in a mirror?

[Daveman]

Mirror mirror on the wall, who can milk me most of all?

[Simoni]

Mirror mirror on the wall, who can milk me most of all?

HRB, of course :-)))

[Faux Pas]

Mirror mirror on the wall, who can milk me most of all?

   

[AramisLux]

i want to begin this post by thanking Scott for his comments. he is right about the fact that many people here have helpful things to say. although, obviously, i don't think a lot of what has been posted in this thread is very helpful. There are examples, however, of some constructive and insightful posters. i am thinking mostly of Vaughn and Gator in saying this.

wanna get some points out of the way right here: i figured out what hrb was all about pretty quickly. i figured out that there are "women" with multiple profiles using more than one site as well. i also figured out that people make money off of writing emails. of course they have a financial interest. if someone makes money getting someone to write her letters at one site, she certainly has a motive to do the same job at other sites. ok fine that is how some of this internet stuff works. i know it. i don't need to have people tell me this one and a half years after i have already been there and done it. thanks for you concern, but i have been around the block a couple of times and maybe all the way around the corner too. but i do appreciate how people here feel about hrb. i understand. i don't bust anybodies chops here based on the site you choose to use. use whatever site you like. knock yourselves out. its fine with me. i guess there is at least one gun slinger at this forum that married someone that he found at hrb. i don't know for sure what he thinks about hrb now. maybe he hates them. so be it. if the required reaction at this site is to roundly condemn hrb each time this site is mentioned so be it. i just don't care. i could say bad things about them too if i wanted to.

i started posting in this thread because i had some experience with "Zhanna" or whoever she may be. maybe a man writes all of her letters. ok fine. that may be how the game is played. i just posted here because i had some communications with her. i was simply trying to give BillR some insight. i guess my experience with Zhanna was very different from how girls at hrb are thought of. my interest in her originally had more to do with her first letter to me. it was very nice. i could see that she was creative. it was "breezy" and fun to read. so i replied. so what? i am defending her not because i have any obsession for her (more on that later), but because, to me, she was a good friend. she was nice to me and she was always decent. i liked having her as a kind of friend. maybe you all are so prejudiced you can't believe that that could be true. but it is true, and all of your arguments and accusations will never make it NOT TRUE. so get over it already. i exchanged emails with Zhanna for about one year, but 6 - 7 months into it, i lost interest in her. i decided she was more of a friend. my lack of interest might have had something to do with her suggestions that i buy her candy six months into the experience. maybe that is part of why it ended.

she may be just a girl who makes money off of guys. i don't care if she does. that is the guy's fault. to me she was very nice. i think if i were to write to her again, she would like to tell me how she is doing and how her mother is doing. maybe i will write to her and find out. when i wrote that i might start things up with her again, this probably had more to do with seeing what she might say, and if she might tell me how things are going for her now. its got very little to do with not taking the advice of people who have posted in this thread. if your advice is "don't use hrb", ok, i heard you the first time. figured out how you feel already. i can evaluate the usefulness of hrb like anyone else here. yes i paid some money for live chat with her about 4 maybe 5 times. these were very very brief. the total cost to me was probably about as much as the average tip at a nice restaurant. if you are just seathing with resentment that someone at hrb made $10 dollars, so be it.

when someone decides to call my friend a prostitute, i might get my back up a little bit. the Zhanna that i know doesn't deserve that. why not give some evidence of the prostitution instead of making stupid unfounded accusations. maybe the multiple profiles at other sites are ID theft. we all know girls photos are being used at lots of site without permission. True? i don't know and i don't think that anyone here knows what she may actually be guilty of. my guess is that if you presented all of the "evidence" of her "prostiution", it would add up to basically nothing. if you want to believe that every girl at hrb is just a prostitute, that's your choice. if i told you your mother's a prosititute, you might get your back up too. if you want to believe that no one can really be friends with someone at hrb, you can believe that if you want. i really don't care.

as for my use of the words "broke up", you might go back and see how i first use that term. here it is:

she never hassled me about anything even when she discussed our.....well.....break up (for want of a better term).

so you see that i struggled a bit to charactorize how it ended. i guess i was somewhat inartful in what i wrote. maybe you guys prefer some other expression like DTB or ASDKFKAH, or WERYIW. whatever....i don't know what you might call it. maybe "i just decided to move on". i certainly don't see how this was in any way "Freudian". please explain if you want to.

Misha: as for being obsessed, here is something to consider: for all i know, there is right now, some hacker who has every sentence of my emails with Zhanna. i don't know. some hacker could have them or someone at hrb could disclose them. if they were disclosed, you would see first hand that what i have stated here about me and Zhanna is completely 100% true. you would see how i started taking two or three weeks to reply to her. you would see for yourself how i lost interest. there is no sour grapes involved here in the slightest.

regarding your suggestion that i kept making comments about her not being good looking, you will see that between my first post and the post where i evaluated-recounted our disagreements up to that point in the thread, i commented negatively about her looks twice (posts 72 and 82). then i posted again in posts 88 and 93 but only because there were "comments" from Daveman about my opinion. but for Daveman's comments, i would certainly have mentioned this 2 whole times. do you really believe that that makes me "obsessed"? gimme a break. if you want to make the accusation, that is entirely your business. i just think you lost credibility and respect by doing this. but the choice is certainly yours.

i don't need to tell anyone here my financial situation. i don't need to tell anyone here what motivates me to chat live with girls at internet sites. i will say that part of my motivation is simply to get to know people (girls) in russia and ukraine. it has a lot to do with just broadening my horizens, and relating to interesting people. some interesting people may be con artists. that doesn't mean they can't be interesting to chat with.

some of you are no doubt ready to suggest that this post must be the work of a "loser" or someone with some kind of problem; after all, writing all of this takes some work. the reason i went to the trouble of writing this is partly because of the posts in this thread that i find a little bit embarresing and disturbing. i don't know why some of you have to suggest someone is a "loser" or that someone else is a "prostitute'. there are a lot of posts in this thread that are just pathetic. i see where BillR has not been using this forum lately. i can guess why. i wonder how many people join this forum and then don't come back much. there is a lot of churlish, petty thing going on here. can we clean up our act just a little?

[Misha]

i don't need to tell anyone here my financial situation. i don't need to tell anyone here what motivates me to chat live with girls at internet sites. i will say that part of my motivation is simply to get to know people (girls) in russia and ukraine. it has a lot to do with just broadening my horizens, and relating to interesting people. some interesting people may be con artists. that doesn't mean they can't be interesting to chat with.

If your goal is to simply chat with Russian women, there are many other options that will let you easily chat with Russian women FOR FREE and meet Russian women online FOR FREE. I would be happy to provide some suggestions as to good ways of doing this.

[ScottinCrimea]

Aramis,  If you are going to stay on this forum, and I sincerely hope that you do, you need to learn that it isn't necessary to defend yourself against all the comments and opinions that are expressed.  I think you will find that most here are well intentioned and sincere in their efforts to help people, but you will also learn that there are some here with an agenda or an opinion that doesn't fit with reality.  It's always good to consider these opinions, but over time you will learn whose opinions are based on experience and reasoned thought and those that don't apply to your particular situation.  I have learned that, in some cases, I have rejected the opinions of others off hand only to think about it later and realize that there was some merit in their arguments.

I understand that being new here you don't know the participants or their history so well so you have to consider each one equally, but that will change.

I think the important thing is that you don't simply gravitate to those members who agree with you in all things.  The diversity of experience and opinion is what truly makes this forum the incredible asset that it is.  As you progress through your experience you have the potential to add to the congregate knowledge here and I hope you will stick around and, most important, that you limit your advice and comments to those things with which you have the prerequisite experience.  Many here have yet to learn this.  It won't be difficult for you to figure out who these are.

[kievstar]

Hi Simoni,I was joking about the guy like me ranking. her  Actually it is based on how new the girl is, number of letters, attractiveness, age, etc.  Your right it is all about who will generate money.  I am very close with local Anastasia agencies in Kiev and Sevastopol.  Best way to find out the best girls is to be friendly with the girls who work in the agency. 

[Gator]

Hi Gator,

If you go on Anastasia website you fill out city Odessa in search and sort on most beautiful first.  This girl is not within the first 100 girls in Odessa.  Which means her photos are better than real life or there is a guy like me rating her. She is not ugly but not my type.  I am probably not her type either. 

I did the search and found it interesting.  As you wrote I did not find Zhanna in the first few pages.  What did I find instead?  Women with a cheap and gaudy look, and showing more flesh.  

Zhanna wears less noticeable eye liner, is dressed more tastefully to include stylish jewelry, and is less sexually inviting.    By comparison IMO, she looks classy even if a little too made up. 

I would place Zhanna ahead of the vast majority of Odessa women shown on the first few pages.  To each his own.  Some men would say my wife is too (fill in the blank) .

If this ranking is indeed based on votes of Anastasia members, it says a lot about what turns on the typical man leering at UW.  The question remains whether these men ever take a trip or ever marry a UW. 

And i still recommend that men avoid the RW with such glamour photos.