Specific Ukrainian Woman

[YourUSAMan]

I received the exact same photos when sending candy so these photos are not per gift delivered. I don't blame Zhanna for this, but HRB.  I had my doubts about most of the confirmation photos, except for the time I sent her a teddy bear and she went immediately to get it and they photographed her in the same outfit.

She is hot though!

 

[YourUSAMan]

I don't blame Zhanna for this, but Orchid, her agency.  They're the ones that are supposed to doing these delivery photos.

[Misha]

I received the exact same photos when sending candy so these photos are not per gift delivered. I don't blame Zhanna for this, but HRB. 

I am curious as to why Zhanna should be blameless. Hasn't anybody considered that she willingly agreed to take a number of photos with various gifts to be used by agencies as proof that she had received her "gift"?

[Daveman]

I don't blame Zhanna for this, but Orchid, her agency.  They're the ones that are supposed to doing these delivery photos.

In the spirit of Gator's post up thread, let me pose a simple question.  If you buy her a gift, and you know she knows about it, and she know her photo was not taken but was sent to you (speaking specifically about the candy), how could she NOT be part of the con?  Really, this is not a flame bait to suddenly transform into His Dishonorable Assholiness, but a sincere question.  Think about it and try to give a real answer as to how she would be completely innocent.

And yes, she is hot.  

edit: Misha beat me to it.. but please do try to answer

[Simoni]

If you buy her a gift, and you know she knows about it, and she know her photo was not taken but was sent to you (speaking specifically about the candy), how could she NOT be part of the con?  

Well, as I wrote eight or ten pages back, girls like Z are professional daters, or rainmakers.   The agency uses their pictures to lure eager guys to write them.  The letters are not answered by Z, but by staff members who have a cheat sheet on her profile, which likely is not real.  But by adhering to the cheat sheet, guys do get consistent answers.  And when the big spender comes alone and does make the flight, she does meet him and "dates" him for the week he is there.  She will run him for tourist spot to tourist spot, and to a few stores for shopping as well. She remains true to the details of her cheat sheet.  She may even get "engaged" to him, and start receiving "support."  Two weeks later, another big spender arrives, and the process is repeated.

Guys, stop feeding the fish.

[ScottinCrimea]

It really amazes me that anyone here could believe that Zhanna could be a sincere woman who is looking for the love of her life and that, for whatever reason they choose to delude themselves with, that she has chosen them -  an overweight, unattractive, WM with no social skills, over the local men or all of the other WM who are drooling over her pics. (No offense intended to anyone specific here, just trying to set the scenario).

She is making a bundle for the agency and for herself.  Sure, eventually (maybe) she will decide that her time is limited and it's time to settle for the best of those who have made the offer, but what in the heck makes you think this will be you?  Most of these women use their looks to get what they can while they can and then look for the best alternative, not their 'true love".  They tend to be very practical. This is not about a search for love, this is about a search for money.  Whoever provides the most money gets the most attention.

They know all the tricks and all the angles.  The fresh WM attracted to the sexy photos is new at this.  This is the ideal setting to take advantage of the naive.  This forum does a tremendous service to those who are new to all of this, but unfortunately there are way too many who either ignore the advice of the experienced here or who never find this site.

I took a good look at the photos with the candy and compared them to the photos on her profile.  I saw a real boredom, tiredness, whatever in her eyes in the candy photos that suggest this was more of a chore for her than an excitement over receiving a gift from someone she pictures as her potential future husband.  I saw a vastly different personality in her eyes in these photos than in her profile photos.  I truly believe that the eyes are the widow to the soul, and the soul I saw in the candy photos was not attractive to me.

[kievstar]

Would someone get on a plane to meet this girl.  My fiance used to pose with gifts to and did not receive money for it. 

[Simoni]

Would someone get on a plane to meet this girl.  My fiance used to pose with gifts to and did not receive money for it. 

Yes, a guy can fall in love with a face and letters.   He then moves to giving her gifts.  He believes she actually gets the gifts. If he has the money and vacation time, he very well might fly to meet her.  But then, it defaults to my post above about professional daters...

[Daveman]

Would someone get on a plane to meet this girl.  My fiance used to pose with gifts to and did not receive money for it. 

So your fiancee posed for photos that were stockpiled, filed away, and sent out as if they were taken when the gift was received?  Same photos to multiple guys?

[Gator]

Assume for now that a RW receives no money from for a candy gift, just the candy.

What is the upside and downside of giving a RW candy?

I can think of only two circumstances for giving her candy.  It is New Year's, Woman's Day, Valentine's Day or her birthday and you have already booked a flight to meet her or you and she have been corresponding for a long time with very serious letters and phone calls.   

If not this situation, I see that nothing is gained.  Instead, it creates a precedent that you are an easy mark.  It makes you a bigger target for professional daters who will milk you upon your arrival.

[Simoni]

Assume for now that a RW receives no money from for a candy gift, just the candy.

What is the upside and downside of giving a RW candy?

I can think of only two circumstances for giving her candy.  It is New Year's, Woman's Day, Valentine's Day or her birthday and you have already booked a flight to meet her or you and she have been corresponding for a long time with very serious letters and phone calls.   

If not this situation, I see that nothing is gained.  Instead, it creates a precedent that you are an easy mark.  It makes you a bigger target for professional daters who will milk you upon your arrival.

There is an agency in Kharkov that really milks the guys.  They have all kinds of gifts to give in addition to candy and roses, including Christmas dinner for her whole family! 

I dated a girl that worked for that agency, and she eventually told me the whole sordid mess.  The girl did not keep the candy, roses nor did she get the Christmas dinner. 

She just got 5 grvn.   

Beautiful girls are real rainmakers for such agencies.

[Daveman]

There is an agency in Kharkov that really milks the guys.  They have all kinds of gifts to give in addition to candy and roses, including Christmas dinner for her whole family! 

I dated a girl that worked for that agency, and she eventually told me the whole sordid mess.  The girl did not keep the candy, roses nor did she get the Christmas dinner. 

She just got 5 grvn.   

Beautiful girls are real rainmakers for such agencies.

More sweet candy!   

I remember reading, maybe here,  about an agency who also sold engagement rings.  They would get a sweet babushka to play the grandmother who wouldn't allow the relations to continue 'unless they were engaged' to be married and you had to buy the ring from the agency to be sure it was not a fake because of hte criminals of course.  Something like that. I can't remember exactly how that one was played out but it was the weirdest scam I have read about. 

[Gator]

These FSU agency scams do not cost the victim a large amount of money.  Victims are getting their heart hurt more than their wallet.  We have plenty of scams right here in the good ol' USA that cost the victim far more money. 

The scams in the USA succeed because of a combination of the victim's greed and lack of due diligence.   Believing that this incredibly beautiful RW in a photo ("incredible" in comparison with what he normally dates) really likes you without ever having met you is just another form of greed IMO.

That is why I suggest men join Elena's Models (what is the cost, $150?) and send unlimited, free EOIs (expression of interest) to many RW.  Describe yourself accurately with realistic photos.  The responses are a good indicator of what RW think of you based on first impressions. 

[Daveman]

These FSU agency scams do not cost the victim a large amount of money.  Victims are getting their heart hurt more than their wallet.  We have plenty of scams right here in the good ol' USA that cost the victim far more money. 

The scams in the USA succeed because of a combination of the victim's greed and lack of due diligence.   Believing that this incredibly beautiful RW in a photo ("incredible" in comparison with what he normally dates) really likes you without ever having met you is just another form of greed IMO.

That is why I suggest men join Elena's Models (what is the cost, $150?) and send unlimited, free EOIs (expression of interest) to many RW.  Describe yourself accurately with realistic photos.  The responses are a good indicator of what RW think of you based on first impressions. 

I agree the online stuff is really a drop in the bucket unless someone actually goes to visit. Then it becomes a couple thousand minimum spent on a lady who is not really interested.  Cost of the 'education' I suppose.

Also agree that EM is a great place to either meet or at least get your feet wet while learning about all of this.  If I remember correctly, the unlimited (platinum) is $399 for the first 6 months, then $199 for each 6 months if you wish to continue, The Gold is $199, then $99 thereafter with a limit of 50 EOI's every 6 months.  Silver is free but you can't really do much and your profile is so far off the map that few will see you. Edit: and with the silver, f course you have to pay for each individual everything.. each letter, each EOI, etc... 

[kievstar]

Daveman,

When a girl signs up with an agency they may take photos with her with gifts and different number of flowers.  My fiance was in all the agencies.  She has met several men on this board and I traded emails with one guy before visiting her first time.  I met her at same agency Hitech met his wife.  In fact my photo is right next to hitech and his wife on the agency board of men engaged or married.

My fiance said AFA is the worst agency.  Tour socials are no fun.  She was in agencies a longtime.  Never took agency thing seriously until her two of her friends met American men.  She never answered letters and only liked face to face meetings. Hundreds of men writing and / or visiting each month is to much for a girl who actually has a fulltime job.  She spoke very little English. 

She is still a big money draw for AFA eventhough she is no longer in the agency.  They will not remove her picture.  All other agencies did immediately.  Even anastiaweb did right away. 

We both knew first two minutes of meeting we were it. 

Is she a bad girl for posing with gifts - I do not think so.  I think men are stupid who write letters and cannot get on a plane. 

[ScottinCrimea]

I remember a lot of people gave HiTech crap because his woman had posed with flowers and then took cash instead.  Many told him to dump her as a dishonest conniving RW.  I saw someone similar to my own wife, who valued food for her family over sentiment that would last 4 days at best.  I'm seeing mixed responses here.  The last word, so far, is that HiTech saw beyond these uninformed opinions, saw her actions for what they really were, and believed in the woman that he knew better than the dissenters.  They are now married, she is with him in Texas, and by all indications, they are happy.  I'm sure, having gone through the process myself, that he wonders at times what the heck he was thinking, but that's part of the fun of it.

[Daveman]

Well now this is another interesting twist.  So let me get this straight. When these ladies join one of these agencies, they're required to make photos with various gift items in order to be listed with the agency. Then the photos are used however the agency sees fit, whenever and however.  So, when a lady receives a gift, they agency sends an archived photo, but the lady says something like "Oh yes I received it, thank you, how did you like my photo?" - pretending to have received the gift and probably not indicating when the photo was actually taken.  BUT, in reality, she's (general she /ladies) just eekin' out some extra cash from the keyboard/chat/video romeos, or the wayward 'incompatible' traveler while actually being a sincere lady just waiting for her dream man to show up...   am I following this correctly??

If I am then it's really just too bizarre for my comprehension.  Scott and Kievstar either lived or presently live there full time.  Maybe after some time in the land of wackiness (which it unquestionably is) things begin to make a different kind of sense.  From my vantage point it is a little difficult to separate the ladies from the con, the situation just reeks... but both of you guys seem to have no trouble with it.  I don't know, guys, it's just weird.

SOOO, the bottom line is... if I have relationship problems, I'm headed over to kidnap Zhanna.. 

[Misha]

I saw someone similar to my own wife, who valued food for her family over sentiment that would last 4 days at best. 

I don't know, I simply married a woman who had an honest job and worked hard for her money 

[Gator]

Four alternatives for a RW who exchanged gift for cash:

1.  RW solicited the gift (which seems to be the case with Zhanna) - dishonest, and not a woman who could be trusted.

2.  RW did not solicit gift and has never written the man - acceptable.

3.  RW did not solicit gift and has written only 1-2 letters to the man - acceptable but not admirable behavior.

4.  RW did not solicit gift yet has been corresponding for a couple of months with the man - ???   I initially thought acceptable if she confesses.  On second thought, I believe it a red flag.

[GoodOlBoy]

I am not going to put the bad mouth on any forum members's wife, BUT sorry, this whole thing about FSU women taking pictures with candy and flowers and Agencies using them to "milk" money from "stupid" men (multiple times) qualifies for what I like to call the contributing "Sleaze Factor" of this whole process.

Definition:(sleaze factor), that part of a situation that is corrupt, sordid, or controversial. 



GOB

[ScottinCrimea]

I agree that soliciting gifts under false pretenses is just plain wrong and the whole idea of these candy photos being prepared beforehand disgusts me.  Just to clear up any possible confusion, my wife never did that, nor would she, nor was this the case with HiTech's wife.  As I recall in her case they were flowers sent to her by another man after she had become engaged to HiTech.

Lest we judge this as a black and white issue, consider the woman who is told by the agency that she has two options:  take home flowers from a man that she barely knows and who may never actually come to visit her, or take $10 to buy something she needs.  She may not like having to explain the flowers in such a case to her friends and family.

Hopefully this thread has opened some eyes, especially of those who insist that their girl is real and sincere because she sent him a photo of herself with the flowers/candy he sent to her.

[Misha]

Lest we judge this as a black and white issue, consider the woman who is told by the agency that she has two options

She always has a third option which is to tell the agency where to go 

[Diplomacy]

I have reserved any further comment for a while.  I knew this type of stuff was going on.  It plays right into information I got, about girls parading WM in front of their friends as a source of entertainment.  Now those tend to be women that have been spoiled, by the reality of WM spending money like water while there or trying to buy Love.

On the other side, for one it appears Hi-tech's wife told him about it.  It was an awkward situation at best.  I am engaged to one man, but the agency called and said another man sent me flowers. 

Reality is, never underestimate anyone trying to provide for a family.  The women who are single and the only source of income.  I do not even think it is a moral issue, more of lesser of 2 evils.

Now in the case of the woman in question here.  I do not understand, how can you only lay blame on the agency?

There is a genius in simplicity, simple scam and they are getting money.

Do you really think she is going to be standoffish and not offer quality chats and letters?

You are also missing the aspect of chatting, web cams and the revenue you can generate holding multiple conversations.  One time a girl who I had known was playing the field was on webcam.  I clicked it on when I said hi, she wanted to show me her new outfit.

I could tell she was having multiple conversations.  I asked her how many? 5 at that moment, she could handle 7 she said.  Hmm?  That is a small business there, think she was getting a cut of that?  She laughed, and said she knew I would be able to tell.  I asked how many guys have called her on it?  Maybe 10 over the year.

She said it was not often that she got busted, maybe once a month.

[Misha]

Reality is, never underestimate anyone trying to provide for a family. 

Reality is that most RW looking to provide for a family get a job. These women such as Zhanna and others are not, from what I gather, poor women with three starving children at home and a mother who needs expensive medication. They do it because they want a quick buck, nothing to do with providing for a family.

[groovlstk]

Reality is that most RW looking to provide for a family get a job. These women such as Zhanna an others are not, from what I gather, poor women with three starving children at home and a mother who needs expensive medication. They do it because they want a quick buck, nothing to do with providing for a family.

Absolutely. The newbs who get ripped off and want to feel better about it by feeling sorry for the girl ("she must have a terrible life to be forced to do such things to survive!") don't understand - or don't want to admit - that she's doing it soley because she doesn't want to work for a living like most of her friends do.