Specific Ukrainian Woman

[Sculpto]

This is true of Scanna also. Every woman I have asked says she "sees" me on date.ru. From my side I see them all as scann.com...

why are you still using pay sites?  you know better JR

[OlgaH]

Zolushka is the russian language side of HRB. 

Zolushka is Cinderella. A website for fairy tale lovers... I guess 

[Sculpto]

Zolushka is Cinderella. A website for fairy tale lovers... I guess 

the thing I most hate about HRB and sites like it is they are ruining the whole thing for a lot of girls who start out sincere.

[Daveman]

Remember, the girls are members of local agencies, these local agencies can place the girls images almost anywhere.. if you see  a girl on more than one site with the same photos it is 99.9% sure that she is not aware of it and that it is her local agency that is posting her.  So, even if you wrote to Zhanna on HRB or any other site you would still end up with Orchid and therein lies the problem.  Keep that in mind.  I think EM is probably the only big site where that doesn't happen and I am not sure about that.

Best of luck to you and stay positive. 

Local agencies do post their ladies on EM as well.  From what I understand, when the agency posts a profile, they are required to add the tag "This lady receives email at her local agency".  Many smaller agencies do this, but, when you reply through Elenas Models, you are not required to pay by the letter even if it the local agency normally charges for each correspondence.  If the lady is posted on EM, and the local agency requests money, they are banned the same way as is a woman who requests money for correspondence.  Certainly some slip through the cracks sometimes, but all in all, they are very very good about getting rid of scammers and scam agencies.

This is my understanding of the rules of EM, though possibly not entirely correct, but at least close.  The main thing to remember is this -- when you have a correspondence with a sincere lady who is truly interested in you, you just *know* it.  The normalcy of the conversations, the way she write4s, the way she speaks, she's attentive but not a "yes yes yes" woman agreeing with everything you say  (and that's truly laughable after you've been around these, um, rather slightly somewhat opinionated ladies for a while).

If that little voice inside is telling you "hey, this seems weird" then it probably is.  The scam ladies know exactly what western men want to hear, which, I can promise you, will be quite different from what you will discover after you tangle with a sincere FSU lady who is seriously trying to determine if you are a good man for her. God Almighty - you'll find it difficult to believe the Inquisition itself did not begin in Russia. OK, so it's a joke.. but you know what the Russian's say about jokes... 

You'll see, BillR..

[JR]

why are you still using pay sites?  you know better JR

Who says I'm still using them? My Scanna sub ran out and I haven't/won't renew. When my EM runs out it'll be the same.

[Ooooops]

BTW, when I say things like "I want Ooooops!' or "I am God's gift to women." It is in jest. I think having a good sense of humor is vital and being able to laugh at one's self is important.

I agree with that...   

[JR]

I agree with that...   

See? We're meant for each other

[Ooooops]

See? We're meant for each other

No, I'm way too old and cynical for you...   

[JR]

No, I'm way too old and cynical for you...   

If you are too cynical for anyone it is for yourself. Cynicism is toxic primarily to the carrier. But I doubt you're too old. At forty-eight I'm no Spring Chicken

[Boethius]

At that time there was Kievan Rus  Later hetmans Bohdan Khmelnytsky and Ivan Sirko also did not hesitate to use the name Little Russia (Мала Русь) instead of Ukraine in their letters 

I am very familiar with Khmelnytsky's letters, and have not seen Mala Rus' used in them.  If you have a link, I'd be interested.

However, I would point out at that time, there was no such thing as a "Ukrainian".  Nor, really, was there a separate Russian national consciousness.  What divided Poles and "Ukrainians" was religion, not language, and certainly not ethnic identity.

The term "Mala Rus" was not considered objectionable by Ukrainians until the late 19th century.

[Boethius]

IMO russians have way less prejudice against ukrainians than them about us, thanks to ukrainian government's efforts to ban and forsake everything russian. And what do you expect russians to think when they hear that ukraine wants to ban or has already banned the use of russian language in universities/schools/movies/tv/press?

In my experience, many Russians have a great deal of chauvinism and prejudice against Ukrainians.  

Ukraine's government has not banned everything Russian.  Official documents can be written in Russian.  Russian is still taught in schools.  There are Russian language papers and radio stations (you can confirm this online yourself), and most people in Ukraine watch programming from Russia, in Russian.

If you speak Russian in Kyiv, you will be responded to in Russian.

The difference between now and 20 years ago is that two decades ago, you could not speak Ukrainian on Kyiv's streets without arousing suspicions you were some sort of nefarious "bourgeois nationalist".  

[Boethius]

why would ukrainians suddenly up and decide to speak a non-native language ? only cuz the government is making them. the ukranians i met , their native language was russian, ukrainian was something their grandparents taught them and they understand, but don't really wanna speak.
on a side note, i don't know what the hell i'm talking about, just talking about my limited experience.

There were periods in Ukrainian history when Ukrainian language was suppressed, both in the Tsarist Empire (read about the Ems Ukazes) and in the Polish administered Austro-Hungarian Empire.  Ukrainian survived because, when Ukrainian publishing was forbidden in Tsarist Russia, intellectuals had their works printed in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and vice versa.

There was a flourishing of Ukrainian language and literature during NEP.  But, during Stalin's time, speaking Ukrainian was again oppressed because it was viewed as a nationalist danger.  I know a woman from Eastern Ukraine who remembers, as a child from a village, being told by her father to speak to him in Russian because it did not draw attention.

After the Holodomor, many lands were de facto "ethnically cleansed" and repopulated with Russians.  That did not happen only in Ukraine, but in other republics as well.

After Stalin's death, Ukrainian was again more commonly spoken in Ukraine, even after a suppression and show trials of Ukrainian dissidents in 1966 to 1968.  However, after Shelest's attempts at Ukrainization, Ukrainian was again repressed under a policy of "internationalization" i.e. - finding a common language - which was, in effect, Russification.

Before Shelest, and during his time, children could choose to go to Ukrainian or Russian language schools.  Ukrainian language schools were slowly curtailed.  In many universities, Ukrainian language courses were not offered.  Someone here mentioned official documents were written in Ukrainian and Russian.  Untrue.  The "default" was always to Russian.  So, the Ukrainization which exists today is a natural reaction to oppression, particularly in Western Ukraine.  

As for skinheads, someone here doubted Stirlitz, but he is correct.  There are very few skinheads in Ukraine, and certainly far, far fewer than in Russia.  In Ukraine, most "skinheads" are off duty police officers shaking down foreigners.  That is why, when a foreigner is attacked by "skinheads", locals do not intervene, and the police are indifferent.

[OlgaH]

I am very familiar with Khmelnytsky's letters, and have not seen Mala Rus' used in them.  If you have a link, I'd be interested.

Boethius, you should look for Khmelnytsky's letter to tsar Alexey Mikhailovich about the villainy by Poles in Ukraine (March 23 of 1653). Also his letter of gratitude for reunion dated January 8 of 1654  Воссоединение Украины с Россией. Документы и материалы в трех томах. (Reunion of Russia and Ukraine. Documents and materials in three volumes"     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Russia#cite_note-4

[Kuna]

Boethius... you've got some pretty strong opinions there...  you're a little off on some of this one though!

In my experience, many Russians have a great deal of chauvinism and prejudice against Ukrainians.  

Whenever we try to generalise in here we end up saying silly stuff... saying "Russians are prejudiced against Ukrainians" is like saying "All RM are deadbeats" or "All RW have strong family values".  It's just too simple to be true!

Ukraine's government has not banned everything Russian. 

Of course they have not banned everything Russian - but they have clearly signaled their intentions.

Official documents can be written in Russian. 

Not so sure about this - BUT I can tell you that we've had some issues with the Ukrainian Embassy in Oz over Russian/Ukrainian language.  These guys are nuts about their hate for Russia, and brushing the issues off as you've done doesn't disclose the whole truth.

Russian is still taught in schools. 

Also not so sure about this...  in fact I know teachers of Ukrainian language earn more than any other subject teachers...  and there are protests in the east over ethnic Russian children being disadvantaged because they must take exams in Ukrainian, and as their second language they are disadvantaged.

There are Russian language papers and radio stations (you can confirm this online yourself), and most people in Ukraine watch programming from Russia, in Russian.

Sorry, this is a distortion!  Whilst there are still Russian language papers and radio stations, their days are numbered.

Legislation has already been passed phasing out Russian language on television and on the radio, and it's now illegal to broadcast any foreign content within Ukraine without it being translated into Ukrainian.  The Ukrainian government have already started closing down broadcasters who won't comply. The new laws will ultimately see Russian phased out totally.

Here's a post that illustrate the problems this is creating:
http://www.allbusiness.com/media-telecommunications/movies-sound-recording/10194952-1.html

I also particularly like this article http://www.russiatoday.com/Art_and_Fun/2008-12-03/Why_a_national_language_needs_TV_promotion.html, especially as the Ukrainian Government can't even provide basic infrastructure but they continue to waste money on campaigns like this!

If you speak Russian in Kyiv, you will be responded to in Russian.

But if you speak Russian in Lviv you'll probably get abuse.  I've copped crap at Borispol for speaking "a little" Russian and I've already mentioned the UKR Embassy issues in Oz.  This is not driven at the grass roots though, this is a systematic process of government to "reform Ukraine".


The Ukrainian Nationalists are a little crazy and getting worse in some ways.  Here's an example of what you'll find on YouTube:

kyivcossacks (5 months ago)
Russia please go home and leave Lavra alone - this is a most sacred Ukrainian Holy Church with holy Ukrainian saints buried in its caves under the foundations - it is a travesty that Russians who stole this church can still continue to carry out sermons in Russian language depriving Ukrainians and Ukrainian Patriarchy from their church - Russian ex soviet criminals go home leave Ukraine and Lavra alone
No foolish Hobo - not national bickering but restoration of Ukraine following the darkest Russian empiralism and communism repression. The Russians have tried and nearly destroyed orthodoxy in Ukraine supplanting the Moscow partriarch and it is up to the next generation to make things right - Russians stole Lavra - it remains a Ukrainian Holy sacred site - and the Russians should leave they are illegal tenants in Lavra - they can find their own sites preferably back in Russia

kyivcossacks (1 year ago)
Pecherska Lavra's illegal tenants The Russian Orthodox Patriarch must surrender and leave Lavra and other properties stolen from the Holy Orthodox Ukrainian Church. This includes all stolen Ukrainian orthodox icons,artwork and even the Patriach itself which Moscow stole from Kyiv, the centre of Eastern Orthodoxy. NB correct English spelling is Kyiv not Kiev
[/size]

Just a little kooky if you ask me...  and probably good reason for Ethnic Russians and Russia to start getting p!ssed off!

(Lots more examples is church circles too...  but this post is already too long!   

[JR]

I wonder what happened to BillR and his Zhanna ?

Anybody hear anything?

[Sculpto]

Zhanna is signed on at hrb right now.. the scam continues.. hopefully BillR has gotten his perceptions straight. 

[JR]

Anybody know if he's there now?

[Daveman]

Anybody know if he's there now?

From what he previously posted, I gathered that he gave up that ghost entirely.  I guess you just never really know... though it would be quite hilarious if, after all of this, he did go over there and actually nabbed her.   

[Sculpto]

nabbed

didn't you mean "nailed" ?   :evil:

[Daveman]

didn't you mean "nailed" ?   :evil:

LoL, probably.  Well, when I first saw her photo, I seriously rethunked my previous "positions" on sex tourism.  She has quite a pair of blood boiling.. er.. eyes.  :usdeyes:

[Sculpto]

somehow I think it would be difficult to bed that woman... and maybe even dangerous.. who knows which mobsters she has wrapped around her fingers

[JR]

I bet bedding her would be easy. Everything has it's price and she's in it for the money....

[Sculpto]

if she isnt a real "pro" it might not be as easy as you think.. I have encountered women like that before.. they have sex for fun and use their sexuality to make money but dont give it up so easy unless they are into it..

so how good of a PUA are you anyway Jolly? 

[Boethius]

quote author=Kuna link=topic=8794.msg186428#msg186428 date=1244466540]
Boethius... you've got some pretty strong opinions there...  you're a little off on some of this one though!Whenever we try to generalise in here we end up saying silly stuff... saying "Russians are prejudiced against Ukrainians" is like saying "All RM are deadbeats" or "All RW have strong family values".  It's just too simple to be true!

I was responding directly to a previous post.  I never stated that all Russians think this.  My MIL, for example, is Russian and since she married a Ukrainian, I doubt she is prejudiced against them.  However, if you read the Russian press, all prostitutes in Russia come from Ukraine, Ukrainians are either simpletons, or sly rubes, they are greedy, sentimental, etc.

Of course they have not banned everything Russian - but they have clearly signaled their intentions.

Those "intentions" have been in place for about 15 years.  So evidently, Ukrainians can't be too serious about it.

Not so sure about this - BUT I can tell you that we've had some issues with the Ukrainian Embassy in Oz over Russian/Ukrainian language.  These guys are nuts about their hate for Russia, and brushing the issues off as you've done doesn't disclose the whole truth.

All official documents of Ukraine must be written in Ukrainian.  I don't think that is particularly unreasonable.  And I didn't brush off the issue I was addressing.

Also not so sure about this...  in fact I know teachers of Ukrainian language earn more than any other subject teachers

That depends on the region, and it is tied to shortages.  Ukrainian language teachers in Ivano Frankivsk make less than English language teachers, when they are paid at all.

Sorry, this is a distortion!  Whilst there are still Russian language papers and radio stations, their days are numbered. Legislation has already been passed phasing out Russian language on television and on the radio, and it's now illegal to broadcast any foreign content within Ukraine without it being translated into Ukrainian.  The Ukrainian government have already started closing down broadcasters who won't comply. The new laws will ultimately see Russian phased out totally.

I'm afraid you are incorrect.  The "official" language of Ukraine is Ukrainian.  So, if you are conducting official state business in Ukraine, all discussions, all correspondence, and all contracts will be in Ukrainian.  However, the language of business remains Russian.

UkrainaTV is broadcast solely in Ukrainian, though often, with Russian subtitles.  That has been the case for several years.  No television broadcasting from within Ukraine that I know of is broadcast in Russian, however, there are numerous live feed broadcasts from Russia.  There is no move to ban them, nor force them to broadcast in Ukrainian.

There are several radio stations in Ukraine that broadcast solely in Russian, mostly from Eastern Ukraine, though there is one I know of from Kyiv.  All are available online.

Russian newspapers are still going strong, and if there is legislation afoot to ban them, I'd like to see a link, please.  Two of the three biggest dailies are Russian language newspapers, and all three of the largest internet newspapers from Ukraine publish in Russian.  In fact, two of them publish only in Russian, while the third publishes in both Russian and Ukrainian.

I am uncertain of the legislation you are referring to, however, there was legislation passed last year that requires all movies to be shown in Ukrainian theatres to be dubbed or subtitled in Ukrainian.  This was not a policy of Ukrainization, but rather, a reaction to Hollywood, not Russia (though it is hit as well).  After many years, US studios stopped dubbing movies into Ukrainian, and distributed Russian dubbed movies in Ukraine.  Given the size of the market, I don't think the legislation was unreasonable.

Here's a post that illustrate the problems this is creating:
http://www.allbusiness.com/media-telecommunications/movies-sound-recording/10194952-1.html

See above.

I also particularly like this article http://www.russiatoday.com/Art_and_Fun/2008-12-03/Why_a_national_language_needs_TV_promotion.html, especially as the Ukrainian Government can't even provide basic infrastructure but they continue to waste money on campaigns like this!

Common language is a unifying force in creating national identity and hence, a nation. 

But if you speak Russian in Lviv you'll probably get abuse.  I've copped crap at Borispol for speaking "a little" Russian and I've already mentioned the UKR Embassy issues in Oz.  This is not driven at the grass roots though, this is a systematic process of government to "reform Ukraine".

If you are a Russian tourist in Lviv, you will not be abused for speaking Russian.  A lot of Western Ukrainian work in Russia, and if you are ever in the streets of Lviv, you will hear "pryvyet" (Russian), not "privit" (Ukrainian). 

As for your Borispol experience, don't you think, as a foreigner, it is a little disrespectful to visit a country and not even learn a few phrases in the language of 80% of its people?  However, if you were a local and spoke Russian, you would have no problems.  Similarly, if you speak Ukrainian to someone at Borispol, they will answer in Ukrainian.  If you speak fluent Russian, they will answer in Russian or, more likely, surzhik.

The Ukrainian Nationalists are a little crazy and getting worse in some ways.  Here's an example of what you'll find on YouTube:

Are you aware of what caused that reaction?  A campaign by Russian nationalists to have Lavra put under the direct and sole control of the Russian Orthodox Church.  Is it a sad commentary on both countries that such matters result in a religious turf war but, in some ways, that has always been true when it comes to Ukrainian soil, and I think it is also, in part, the result of the oppression of Ukrainian churches (particularly the Uniate Church) during the Soviet period.

Just a little kooky if you ask me...  and probably good reason for Ethnic Russians and Russia to start getting p!ssed off!

And yet, in poll after poll, this has not made even the top twenty issues the people of Ukraine are concerned about.  In the most recent poll, it was an issue for 0.5% of respondents.

I am not suggesting the Orangistas have not used Ukrainization for political purposes.  Part of this is a strategy coming from their foreign advisors.  However, I think you need to look at the broader picture, which would include a good look at Ukraine's history and particularly, the suppression of Ukrainian language, the persecution of Ukraine's intelligentsia, and the result of previous attempts to build a nation state over the course of several centuries.  There is a reason Ukrainians fear they will lose their state, whey the fear a lack of independence, and why they believe they need to build a strong "Ukrainian" identity.  Once the latter is stabilized, I believe Ukraine will move to a more European perspective on many of these issues.

[AramisLux]

not to redirect the topic away from the political topics currently under discussion, but i thought followers of this thread might like to know that, after almost one year without any letter writing, "Zhanna" just sent me an email. of course, it was your basic simple form letter. the "Z" that i used to know would never have sent me such a letter.

it seems that the scamming at hrb is getting more and more obvious everyday. seems like times are getting very desperate for them.