Dating Non-English Speakers: Opinions please

[SMS60]

If you are from the US and want to bring a lady to the country on a K1 visa. It would be good if she was able to speak english.

One of the reasons a US consular can deny a visa is on the grounds of not having a common language. This is rare but can happen if the embassy feels there is fraud involved. Giving more of a chance of denial. You dont give them reasons.

This does not come into play if you are dating without serious intentions.

[I/O]

The desire of these women to learn English as quickly as possible, shows their commitment to marry a foreign husband and move to his country.

Why is it that this sort of notion has never raised my enthusiasm terribly much? Undoubtedly the above statement has some validity but my question is, do you want someone who is suddenly so committed to marrying abroad, marrying someone, perhaps anyone? I personally much preferred the group who were not so enthusiastic about moving abroad. Mrs enjoys her life here and has fitted in very well but her underlying sentiments apply much more security to our relationship in my mind, and they are illustrated by a comment she made not so long ago when I was rewriting will documents, "I/O leave nothing for me because if something happens to you I would return to Russia immediately". I suspect that may change over time but for the moment I see it as "Me" being the only reason she is here. I find that altogether comfortable.

Daveman: You are spot on, our type of story is an exception and should not be used as a model plan. Frankly, much of what we did was completely idiotic in retrospect.

I/O

[Simoni]

Two comments, which are reflections from my reading this thread:

1)  Learning English, and becoming fluent in English, is much more difficult than is being portrayed here;

2) My wife says the same as Mrs. I/O-- if i were to die, she would return to her native country and not stay here.  She has no desire to live here--she came here for me.

The second point is an important point for those searching for their mate.  Find someone for whom leaving their homeland will be a sacrifice.  Don't find someone who wants to change countries because they are dissatisfied with where they live.

[Vaughn]

Daveman: You are spot on, our type of story is an exception and should not be used as a model plan. Frankly, much of what we did was completely idiotic in retrospect.

Hey, don't exclude me from that select group. Ain't it ironic how the very men who succeeded
with a English-less duchess advise others against following that footpath?

Like you two, I/O and Simoni, I believe if I were flattened by a truck tomorrow, Elvira likely would head home
to the Mari-El Republic after sorting things out. Our daughter accompanying her? -->  probably 95% chance.

Regarding learning English, I've known a few ladies who treated it as their ticket out of a bad situation. In a few
of those cases, men perceived this as a flattering display of undying commitment.

It's a minefield for impatient travelers.

[KenC]

I/O,
Leave it to you to point out the one statement ambach made that was close to being correct and criticize it.

The desire of these women to learn English as quickly as possible, shows their commitment to marry a foreign husband and move to his country

If you replace the generic reference to an unknown "foreign husband" to the specific man in question, then I would agree with him.  I was always surprised that women looking for a man in America, Great Britain or Australia would not even begin to learn some English.  But at least she should be attempting to learn her man's language if she is the least bit serious about him.
KenC

[daveyj]

So to all of the people here who don't already speak Russian and who are looking for someone in the FSU or who have found someone there, are you learning Russian?  I don't mean have you bought some Russian language CD and every once in a while you play it and practice for an hour or two, I mean are you taking a college/university course in Russian or registered in a Russian language night school course?  If not why? You can certainly afford it easier than someone in the FSU.  To live in the west anyone from the FSU will eventually have to learn the language of their partner's country but shouldn't that partner also have at least a working knowledge of Russian. 

In answer to your question, yes I am studying Russian.  Avg 8-10 hrs a week including 1 hour with a private tutor.  I agree that the western partner should have a working knowledge of English.  Seems like what you are asking about would be a good topic for a whole different thread.

[Misha]

The second relationship, a RW, once again when I met her on line, she had limited English; I plan to meet her on January 21, I am quite sure she would be fully conversant by then. She has immersed herself in English.

Okay, I am confused. Are you referring to a woman that you will be meeting or a woman that you have already met? If it is the former, do you really expect her to be fully fluent in 3 weeks time? I have my doubts.

For young educated women, learning English, if they devote time and energy to it, is not very difficult.

Don't ever say that to my wife. If you do, you will likely learn many Russian swear words and I can't promise that I will be able to stop her from hitting you  She has found learning English an excruciating experience.

The desire of these women to learn English as quickly as possible, shows their commitment to marry a foreign husband and move to his country.

I echo Ken's sentiments here. Is the man a means to an end?

Had I insisted on English speaking only, I have missed out on both of them.

I have missed out? Do you mean would have missed out? Again, not clear whether you have actually met the second woman.

Another poster alluded that OP should find ONE girl who is glad that he called and is happy to hear his voice whenever he calls, English or no English, probably the best advise of all the posts in this thread.

Is being happy to hear a voice a solid foundation for a relationship? I would say no.

I have no intention of learning any Russian, since I would have little use for it. Both of my girls did not see any reason for me to learn Russian and neither one suggested.

Well, prepare to be left out. Yes, if you do meet someone and marry her, she will eventually learn English. However, it is unlikely that her family and close friends will learn English. Learning some Russian helps.

[I/O]

I/O,
Leave it to you to point out the one statement ambach made that was close to being correct and criticize it. 8)If you replace the generic reference to an unknown "foreign husband" to the specific man in question, then I would agree with him.  I was always surprised that women looking for a man in America, Great Britain or Australia would not even begin to learn some English.  But at least she should be attempting to learn her man's language if she is the least bit serious about him.
KenC

KenC: I'll simply point out 4 possibles.

1) If a woman is learning English in the singular hope of finding a foreign husband then she is to be avoided like the plague IMO.

2) If she is learing to better her education and she happens across her husband in the process and he happens to be a foreigner, then so be it.

3) If she meets a foreigner before she has language and decides to study English in order to develop a life with him, then I have no problem with that other than as I have pointed out, the foreigner would have been wiser not to get involved in the first place. Cats chasing tails here? Maybe. Nevertheless, I was one stupid enough to do exactly that and happy though I am, I would always advise the easier route and ours certainly wasn't that.

4) You find a woman who speaks English and you spend your last dime courting her (Well save a couple of dimes because these kids ain't cheap to keep), spend every spare vacation hour chasing her down and somehow in the process she actually falls in love with you and you her, then you start the near impossible process of convincing her to spend the rest of her life with you, then you suffer more than she does as you watch her suffer the loss of home and near friends, then you just might have what you really need.

IMO the 4th choice is the one to hunt down. It doesn't ensure you'll remain married for 50 years, but it does give you a shot at a decent time married and for the clarification I am suggesting 5 years or more could be considered a successful marriage.

Put simply, the punter better make sure he avoids the visa jockeys and if he can't communicate with her, then I can't see how he can be even close to certain. Proceeding from there is but a roll of the dice.

I/O 

[KenC]

KenC: I'll simply point out 4 possibles.

1) If a woman is learning English in the singular hope of finding a foreign husband then she is to be avoided like the plague IMO.

I/O 

I am wondering why this is such an evil deed?  We men sit here and dissect every minute possibility of how to snag the best possible RW, but they are not allowed to learn the language of most of the men seeking them?  If a RW joined an agency or even posts a profile on a free site seeking a man in an English speaking country, why shouldn't she learn the language? 
KenC

[I/O]

I am wondering why this is such an evil deed?  We men sit here and dissect every minute possibility of how to snag the best possible RW, but they are not allowed to learn the language of most of the men seeking them?  If a RW joined an agency or even posts a profile on a free site seeking a man in an English speaking country, why shouldn't she learn the language? 
KenC

KenC: Nothing evil in learning language. When her sole aim in doing so is finding a foreign husband, AKA leaving her country, I wouldn't want to be in her target range.

I/O

[KenC]

KenC: Nothing evil in learning language. When her sole aim in doing so is finding a foreign husband, AKA leaving her country, I wouldn't want to be in her target range.

I/O

I/O,
Would you feel the same when the man learns Russian for the sole purpose of finding a Russian wife?  Do you think that is bad too?
KenC

[Misha]

KenC: Nothing evil in learning language. When her sole aim in doing so is finding a foreign husband, AKA leaving her country, I wouldn't want to be in her target range.

Well, a woman looking for a husband (any man with the right passport) would be one thing, a woman looking for a man to be her husband (i.e. a man she loves, trusts, respects and actually wants to be with) would be something else. However, unless you share a language in common, it would be hard for a man to really know IMHO.

[I/O]

I/O,
Would you feel the same when the man learns Russian for the sole purpose of finding a Russian wife?  Do you think that is bad too?
KenC

KenC: I don't think that is bad, I think he is probably mad or very underinformed, perhaps both.

I/O

[ECOCKS]

Just a quick observation that one thing which has also changed considerably over the last 3-4 years has been the growth of English skills in general.  My future daughter-in-law is struggling to get on with the new Intercontinental hotel opening in April/May and was told her English simply has to improve.  After three interviews she was told they want her but she has until February to improve her English to an acceptable level.

English is increasingly a preferred job skill as more and more FDI has come into the country since 2004.  It is considered one of the hallmarks of a well-rounded business major with serious aspirations of making it in the emerging economy.

Obviously, this will be more of a problem outside the main cities.  Kyiv and Odessa have much more access to language trasining than say Cherkasy and Sumy.

[OlgaH]

When her sole aim in doing so is finding a foreign husband, AKA leaving her country, I wouldn't want to be in her target range.

I/O

I/O do you want to say that all these women who have placed their profiles on international dating websites and women who already met their men through international dating, wives of some members on this board are just simply women whose aim is only to leave a native country?

[I/O]

I/O do you want to say that all these women who have placed their profiles on international dating websites and women who already met their men through international dating, wives of some members on this board are just simply women whose aim is only to leave a native country?

Olga: How on earth did you come up with that?  :selfharm:

I/O

[SilverBUllet]

I would not be so focused on the language skills. It is more about the person, if the person is right I am sure a lady can learn English well with intensive language classes. The fiance visa can take almost 12 months and during this period private English classes in Ukraine can do wonders. Also with today's technology, the learning curve is steep.

[BC]

I would not be so focused on the language skills. It is more about the person, if the person is right I am sure a lady can learn English well with intensive language classes. The fiance visa can take almost 12 months and during this period private English classes in Ukraine can do wonders. Also with today's technology, the learning curve is steep.

There's a huge difference between a blind date and a blind marriage.

[Jet]

I/O, with all due respect this line of thinking falls somewhere between silly and preposterous.
One question, if her sole aim in learning English is finding a foreign husband, HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?
If she'd gone to that much trouble to advance an agenda, she's not to blow the whole thing by telling you.

[GalinaF]

... Most relate to topics that are an unfamilar topic to her, not having grown up in the US.  For example, pop culture, deep discussions of US history, religion or politics (not just the concepts but the philosophies behind them, medical issues beyond the basics, American novels and some of the uniquely American symbolism.  These are just a few.  There are no topics that are "off limits" or that we don't discuss, just some that can only be discussed to a certain depth...

Hi, Scott! Thank you for your explanation. I have to say that I’ve come to terms with the idea that I won’t be ever able to discuss American pop culture. IMHO, it’s more of a cultural obstacle than a linguistic one.  Among the other topics you mentioned, we do discuss American history at home in quite a detailed way, as my husband knows a lot about American Civil War. I’m not that much interested in learning about each Civil War battlefield, so at a certain point, I’d rather “skirt around” particulars of Pickett's Charge, for instance.

In general, I agree with you that there are some topics (pop culture for sure) that a WM won’t be able to discuss with a non-native English speaker in depth because of a number of reasons (e.g., lack of specific vocabulary, foreign upbringing, lack of personal interest, etc.) It may be one of many things the OP has to consider.

[Simoni]

I married a girl who is fluent in English.  And the cultural gap is not as large because of it.  For example, Marina was a big fan of American movies the last 15 years or so, and knows them better than I do (she used Hollywood movies as English lessons).   She does not know many american tv shows from my youth, but says everyone in Ukraine knows all about Santa Barbara because of that tv show.  Of course, that was fiction :-)

[GalinaF]

...
Like you two, I/O and Simoni, I believe if I were flattened by a truck tomorrow, Elvira likely would head home
to the Mari-El Republic after sorting things out. Our daughter accompanying her? -->  probably 95% chance...

I have to say that I stumbled over this statement. You say that you’ve been married for more than 5 years, and I’ve been married for 6 years. Also, I have a daughter, so I think that our situations look similar.

If my husband’s car were hit by stupid deer, I wouldn’t come back to SPb. I’ve spent six years here, and I’ve created a new life! I learned how to drive. I planted so many shrubs and flowers in our yard and painted the inside of the house. I have a stable job (keeping my fingers crossed) and have my 401K (that is rapidly depreciating, but it’s another story.) I’ve got new friends. My daughter graduated from NYU, and she is building her career based on her American education. She lives in NYC and she likes it there. All in all, I don’t want to start my life from scratch again in case something happened to my dear husband. Does it make our marriage unstable? Not at all. I love Michael, and I love the rest of my American life outside our home as well!

[HiTech]

I/O,
Would you feel the same when the man learns Russian for the sole purpose of finding a Russian wife?  Do you think that is bad too?
KenC

I am in agreement with KenC. And I do not believe there is anything wrong with a women learning English for the purposes of finding a foreign husband.

The only thing I believe KenC would agree is if the Women is not interested in what the man is like as long as he is American. (or English or German if she wants those country).  Then she does not put her desire for a loving relationship above her desire to change countries. And hence is not something most of us would want.

Most of us here do that exact thing, desire a wife in the FSU. In fact it is the purpose of this board to help us learn all we can about the FSU to improve our chances in finding the one we love in the FSU. Learning English or Russian is just trying improving your chances. We jump on guys who just find the first thing, (equivalent to a GCG).

But I do believe that the odds of running into a women who either is a pro dater, or a GCG 2nd degree, is higher if you date an English speaker than non English speaker. I have not facts to back this up, but it would seem logical to m

I would not try to dissuade a man from dating a non English speaker. And I would also make the man well aware of the cost of dating a non English speaker. But when I ask myself, if I were to start over, would I only look at English speaking women, and the answer comes up , the women's English speaking ability would not be a criteria in my search, but if I was lucky enough to find a women to speak English, it would make things easier.

(In 20 mins I am off to bring Alyona to her English classes.) While it some times is difficult in communicating grand concepts last night for an hour we were descussing the differents between socialism and capitalism , and how it is the western belife that capitalism drives higher productivity and why higher productivy gives everyone more money in a society.

Not exactly simple concepts , but still we could communicate all that was needed for understanding.   

HiTech

[Doll]

Like you two, I/O and Simoni, I believe if I were flattened by a truck tomorrow, Elvira likely would head home
to the Mari-El Republic after sorting things out. Our daughter accompanying her? -->  probably 95% chance.

Why would she go? Agree with Galina.

[Doll]

 
2) My wife says the same as Mrs. I/O-- if i were to die, she would return to her native country and not stay here.  She has no desire to live here--she came here for me.
  

What is this that she doesn't like here? After all these years?