Dating Non-English Speakers: Opinions please

[Simoni]

I think the software (all of it) is a waste of time.

True, if becoming fluent is the purpose of using CDs.  However, they do work for learning basic conversation.  Locals respect you more when you can say basic things to them, and respond to their greetings.

If you have an iPod or iPhone, the language software you can buy from the Apple store is pretty good for conversational Russian. {iLingo, Talking Panda)  Plus, it is right there with you on your iPhone when you need it.  I often used it in cafes when ordering when I was alone.  It worked.

I did not benefit from Rosetta Stone; I did benefit from the Pimsler CDs.

[ECOCKS]

Again, the context here is with regard to non-native English speakers achieving fluency in a native English-speaking country, not native English speakers achieving limited functionality for use with other non-native speakers.

[Simoni]

Thanks, ECOCKS.  I missed that context; I was referring to the native English speaker learning "some" Russian...

[Doll]

Again, the context here is with regard to non-native English speakers achieving fluency in a native English-speaking country, not native English speakers achieving limited functionality for use with other non-native speakers.

ECOCKS, again- nobody argues about the language environment,the very phrase "have her avoid" won't work.

[ECOCKS]

Works fine for me Doll.  We can agree to disagree.

[Doll]

I see-ECOCKS is a Russian-speaking person himself, he IS Russian. It explains a lot- have her, get her , etc.
 

[Doll]

Works fine for me Doll.  We can agree to disagree.

Who would doubt! 

[ECOCKS]

I see-ECOCKS is a Russian-speaking person himself, he IS Russian. It explains a lot- have her, get her , etc.
 

Obviously you have some sort of problem. 

Best wishes in the coming year.

[Doll]

Obviously you have some sort of problem. 

I am not the only one who  disagrees with you.

[BC]

Have no idea what the bickering is about..

For some reason my wife, without any input from my side whatsoever, even contrary to my gentle 'hints' avoided contact with FSUW here for about a year or more.

I've heard similar experiences from others over the years, enough to feel that such is part of the broader envelope of acclimatisation.

Much adoo over nuthin IMHO. Let things take their natural course and be happy when things go well.  The more you push the less will be gained.

[Simoni]

Have no idea what the bickering is about..

For some reason my wife, without any input from my side whatsoever, even contrary to my gentle 'hints' avoided contact with FSUW here for about a year or more.

I've heard similar experiences from others over the years, enough to feel that such is part of the broader envelope of acclimatisation.

One of the first pieces of advice given my wife when she came to the US was from a Russian woman she met in a university class.  She said "stay away from Russian women!"  When my wife told her I had a russian hairdresser, she said "don't tell her about me."

While it is somewhat a stereotype, the reality is that jealousy can result in your wife being pulled down into the pot when she tries to climb out.

[ECOCKS]

One of the first pieces of advice given my wife when she came to the US was from a Russian woman she met in a university class.  She said "stay away from Russian women!"  When my wife told her I had a russian hairdresser, she said "don't tell her about me."

While it is somewhat a stereotype, the reality is that jealousy can result in your wife being pulled down into the pot when she tries to climb out.

ROFLMAO!

Smart old Russian woman!

Sorry your hairdresser lost some short-term business, but it was probably best in the long-run for them both!

[Gator]

My Moscow wife has been here 8+ months.  I am not the type of man who would try to control who her friends could be.  Besides, it would be impossible.

When she arrived, I endeavored to introduce her to possible AW friends.  She made a couple of AW friends immediately, one her age.  Since then, she has made many, many friends with the phone incessantly ringing off the hook.  Almost all of her new friends have been expats, about 67% UW/RW and 33% Latin American. 

I see two reasons for this.  This network is speeding her adjustment in many ways.  Also, she finds them more interesting and feels more comfortable than with AW; it is not just because of the language.   

Her new friends, with a couple of exceptions, are happily married, and most are employed and have been in the country for a few years, some as many as 10 years.  In summary, they seem like good influences.  They not the group of scheming, materialistic RW that some men have written about.  In fact, she has avoided that type.

[Simoni]

Sorry your hairdresser lost some short-term business, but it was probably best in the long-run for them both!

My wife now has a number of FSU friends (including Gator's wife), and women from other countries as well. In fact, we went to a New Year's party with half a dozen russian women and their men.

But most of her friends are just typical american women.  They love her, and treat her like the special person she is.  The main thing is the connection she feels, and not the country the woman is from.

[Simoni]

  In summary, they seem like good influences.  They not the group of scheming, materialistic RW that some men have written about.  In fact, she has avoided that type.

Yeah, as I wrote, that is a stereotype.   But stereotypes are born from examples.   Somewhere on this site there is a discussion of the crab pot, where like a pot filled with crabs, when a woman tries to climb out, the other crabs pull her back in.

But we are straying from the purpose of this thread and the recent discussion of English acquisition.  I think the point is that to best learn English, the woman needs to be in an environment where she has friends who speak English.  Such a situation will hasten the learning curve.

[Simoni]

In terms of Marina meeting other women, we had few friends the first year in the US because we lived in an upscale, gated apartment complex, where you really don't see your neighbors too much.

For the last two years, we have lived downtown in a condo. In our condo, we have 250 families, and you see them each other in the hallway and on the elevator and at unit parties.  This in itself has resulted in lots of AW friends.  And such immersion leads to better spoken English.

[ECOCKS]

I dont expect much of an issue with this either since we expect to end up in a city with no organized FSU community although there will certainly be a few Russian/Ukrainian-speakers in the area.

[pitbull]

I don't think a Master or PhD will give you access to a Masters program at a good university in the US. An undergrad level is where most will have to start. It is not a matter of if it is a waste of time or not, one just need to be re-certified in the US system. Otherwise forget about any good jobs. Here is a good example how it works from a Russian Women Abroad Discussion board: http://russianwomenabroad.com/page16.html

SB, no, MA or PhD from FSU alone do not give access to a good grad program in the US. Excellent GRE, GMAT or LSAT scores and well written application do. And this is what one has to work on. Starting from undergrad. level with a MA or PhD already is a waste of time, money and brain power.
Unless of course we are talking about a woman with very bad English. But then the problem is again - English.

Good graduate schools, from my experience, would be very interested in a foreign-born well educated student (provided her GPA in FSU was high) with high GRE scores. Provides an excellent story.

None of my friends with MA or higher went for an undergrad. degree in the US or even looked at jobs like shop girl or nurse aid.

While it is important to give your woman a realistic picture of her future life, do no use SB's advice, no need to dishearten her.

[Simoni]

I think both pitbull and I have Ph.D.s and work in higher education.  So we both speak from informed platforms.

However, in some cases getting a second US undergraduate degree is needed.   It depends upon the discipline she is working in, actually.

In some cases, the university awarding the FSU degree did not provide the information needed to compete in Masters programs in a US university.  In that case, a second bachelors degree would provide that information.  In other cases, the wife might want to shift fields, thus needing to receive an education in the new field.

[ECOCKS]

Any teachers care to chime in here?

I strongly suspect that to regain a teaching certificate, almost any FSU immigrants are going to end up transferring their credits, undergoing evaluation and effectively going to undergraduate school for at least one year, possibly more.  Variables will involve at least the subject matter, language fluency and the state you apply to.

More specialized occupations like various technicians, programmers and others where a bachelors are considered an entry qualifier are going to vary based upon demonstrated proficiencies in the interview and probation periods on the job.

Licensed professions, like radiology techs, real estate agent, law enforcement positions, RN's and the like are going to have focused training programs (3 months up to a year) and tests where the English proficiency is going to be important.

Because many of these programs are setup at the state level, the variables are numerous.  I know of one lady who is a nurse here and also holds RN certification for Georgia but had to spend at least 3 months in an intensive program stateside AFTER passing her TOEFL.

As for business school graduates, most will need only to focus on their English skills unless they purchased their degree.  Marketing grads might be able to get by and maybe even a few exceptional Management majors, but Finance, Insurance, Accounting and Economics majors are going to be in trouble.  Specialized Management such as Project Managers, Personnel and such are going to need some undergraduate prep to be functional.  

Advanced licensed professions such as lawyers, engineers, doctors, veterinarians and such are going to have to go through credit/credential evaluation and then carry-through with the remedial assignments, THEN take applicable tests.

A tough row to hoe more often than not.

[GalinaF]

Any teachers care to chime in here?

I strongly suspect that to regain a teaching certificate, almost any FSU immigrants are going to end up transferring their credits, undergoing evaluation and effectively going to undergraduate school for at least one year, possibly more.  Variables will involve at least the subject matter, language fluency and the state you apply to...

Hi, you asked teachers to chime in and here I am… In the state of CT, a person with Russian credentials falls under the category “out-of-state teacher” and has to meet the same requirements as a teacher from RI, for example. The only difference is that a person with a diploma given by a German/French/Russian, etc. university has to submit his diploma evaluated through an evaluation agency. Then, everybody has to take the same exams in English, Math, and subject matter (Praxis exams), and the level of fluency of a foreign-born teacher should equal that of his American colleagues. Nobody cares how a person prepares for these exams. Of course, somebody may think of taking a college course, but IMHO it’s not necessary unless a person has completely forgotten some middle-school math.

I agree with pitbull that a person who would like to work in a professional field or go to a grad school should be ready to take standardized exams. I prepared for my exams on my own while working as a sub at local schools. For me, taking undergraduate courses (especially in my subject matter) would have been a complete waste of time and money.

[ECOCKS]

You transferred an FSU teaching degree to CT for evaluation?

How did that come out for you?

[GalinaF]

You transferred an FSU teaching degree to CT for evaluation?

How did that come out for you?

Strictly speaking, I didn’t have a Russian teaching degree. I had a MS degree from SPb state university, and I had to go through the ARC program (=Alternate Route to Certification.) It is my 4th year as a full time teacher with the same school.

[ECOCKS]

But did you go through evaluation with your degree? Or know anyone who did?

[GalinaF]

But did you go through evaluation with your degree? Or know anyone who did?

What do you mean by “going through evaluation”? I evaluated my Russian diploma at WES more than 4 years ago. Here is a thread about evaluating foreign credentials:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8716.0