Dating Non-English Speakers: Opinions please

[Daveman]

oh yeah, sarcastic AND suspicious... that narrows it down! 

[mies]

  Don't rush with conclusions - wait till you get to know all of my wonderful qualities 

[Mishenka]

Your style of writing leads me to think you are a UW :-)

Are you?

How about another smile? 

This is why we have profiles,,, so we dont have to ask such questions.

 

Mishka

[mies]

This is why we have profiles,,, so we dont have to ask such questions.

 

Mishka

he-he   

Myshka

[Simoni]

This is why we have profiles,,, so we dont have to ask such questions.

Cut it out, wise guy! 

Of course we read her profile and all her posts, which led me to predict Ukraine.

She added her country to her profile AFTER this discussion started.

[mies]

for the record: i have not updated my profile since i created it.
frankly speaking i forgot that my profile shows the country :-) also the country/citizenship does not necessarily equate with nationality :-)

but that's not really important :-) i enjoy your sense of humor guys ))

[Simoni]

The first thing I did when you teased Gator about your nationality was to check your profile for your country. I did not see it.

The next think I did was to read all of your posts, and then I get the hint of Ukrainian English :-)

Have fun here, and good luck!

~Si

[mies]

The next think I did was to read all of your posts, and then I get the hint of Ukrainian English :-)

now you made me wonder - how do you detect ukrainian English in writing? 

are you so closely familiar with slavic philology?

[Simoni]

I'll PM you, Myshka :-)

[vox11]

why? 

because of "when you will"

[mies]

hm.. what would be the proper sentence structure then?

(i'm trying to improve my English) 

[Chillidog]

I think what you are saying is what most have said here.  In the early dating phase, lack of English may not be so much of an obstacle and a pocket translator will help, but if the relationship progresses and you need to move into much deeper subjects, and especially when she comes to the US, the obstacles increase exponentially.

Too many here are saying that they have dated many RW with little or no English skills and they have gotten along fine.  That's all well and good, but you need to listen to those who have gotten beyond that stage.  The VAST majority say that at some point the difficulty in communication either caused the relationship/marriage to break up or, even if they are still together and happy, that the obstacles were such that they wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.

after reading the whole thread over the last few days I would have to say to pretty much everyone (just using this quote because it sums it all up nicely)

the wind has been effectively been removed from my sails!!!
I might as well cancel my planned trip to Kaluga in March!!!
Pretty sobering words by all of you, or maybe I was drinking too much of the FSU Punch?

for the record my friend learned German in school, and has just beginning English skills which at the present time she is trying to improve upon thru her 8 yo sons English books and lessons.
Her son takes additional classes (outside of the school) twice a week for 1 hour each class.

it would appear unless I enjoy self-inflicted wounds it would be damn near impossible to get this relationship off the ground

[GoodOlBoy]

after reading the whole thread over the last few days I would have to say to pretty much everyone (just using this quote because it sums it all up nicely)

the wind has been effectively been removed from my sails!!!
I might as well cancel my planned trip to Kaluga in March!!!
Pretty sobering words by all of you, or maybe I was drinking too much of the FSU Punch?

OK Chillidog, I'll ask you the question directly.....

What do you want in your relationship with this lady?

Do you want a stay at home Wife/Mom.

Do you want someone who can almost immediately contribute substantially to your household income?

Do you want somebody who can look after herself-OR-someone that needs a guiding hand (help) the first few years of your marriage?

Not to be repetitive, BUT, what do you want?


GOB

[Chillidog]

OK Chillidog, I'll ask you the question directly.....

What do you want in your relationship with this lady?

Do you want a stay at home Wife/Mom.

Do you want someone who can almost immediately contribute substantially to your household income?

Do you want somebody who can look after herself-OR-someone that needs a guiding hand (help) the first few years of your marriage?

Not to be repetitive, BUT, what do you want?


GOB

she is a very independent women. the stay at home wife/mom is not my decision to make but her's--- what will she be happy with in her future relationships? (I know this answer but if you really want the truth it would be best that this question be asked to her)

my answer to "contribute to the household income IMMEDIATELY/substantially?" for this I think I should not be searching in the FSU. If I NEEDED this then I'm barking up the wrong tree.

do I want somebody who can look after herself-OR-someone that needs a guiding hand the first few years of marriage? Regardless of how much a person knows English won't they all (FSUW) need "a little hand holding" in the first few years of marriage?

I am prepared to help and do whatever hand holding is necessary for her. (She is actually quite fond of us holding hands ). if I wasn't again the logical choice would be to never look. I think in any marriage AM/AW of WM/FSUW there is always a little hand holding on both sides until the feet get wet. and then afterwards hopefully a heck of a lot more

[GoodOlBoy]

Chillidog those are all good answers, IMHO.

So why the reluctance to go visit this nice lady and her son?

If you don't mind me asking, what did you read in this thread that makes you now think twice about your upcoming trip?


GOB

[Chillidog]

Chillidog those are all good answers, IMHO.

So why the reluctance to go visit this nice lady and her son?

If you don't mind me asking, what did you read in this thread that makes you now think twice about your upcoming trip?


GOB

I'm certainly not a person who keeps his head in the sand. Have a tad bit of a "stubborn side" the "I will do it myself attitude" but at times I do search out the wisdom of those who have "been there done that"

if you are wondering, I am NOT going to cancel the trip!

But it is pretty sobering when so many have met/married a lady who when they first met had limited English skills. say "If I was to do it over again, I would only search for those with good English skills"

kinda gets you thinking.... hard enough to be successful, why add to the difficulties.

was thinking maybe with my past experience and what I have learned over the last 3 years that maybe I had increased my chances to 50/50.
after reading this thread and her English is poor I think I'm back to at best 20/80 maybe even 10/90 ---- NOT GOOD

[GoodOlBoy]

if you are wondering, I am NOT going to cancel the trip!

This is good news. Be strong and confident. Don't have doubts.

But it is pretty sobering when so many have met/married a lady who when they first met had limited English skills. say "If I was to do it over again, I would only search for those with good English skills"

RWD supplies a pretty heavy doseage of reality to anybody reading our forum. When I read your words, I know that other members and myself are not wasting our time here. 

I may cut up sometimes on my posts, but I will NEVER lie to anybody when it comes to the realities of marrying and staying married to a RW.

I don't write on this forum to create doubts in your mind. I am just trying to pass on some ideas that may or may not help you in your ultimate goal of finding and happily marrying an FSU woman.

kinda gets you thinking.... hard enough to be successful, why add to the difficulties.

This whole adventure (marrying an FSU woman) is not for the faint of heart. And yes, it is a thinking man's "game".

was thinking maybe with my past experience and what I have learned over the last 3 years that maybe I had increased my chances to 50/50.
after reading this thread and her English is poor I think I'm back to at best 20/80 maybe even 10/90 ---- NOT GOOD

Just remember the words of all others written on this forum. Both the failures and success stories. Filter out what doesn't pertain to you and continue on your journey. Don't take everything said as the Gospel. Every relationship is different. 


GOB

[Faux Pas]

Chilidog,

For the most part, they are stating it is yet another obstacle. Not an obstacle that can't be overcome or a deal killer. Many of those guys had a lady with no english and they understand how hard it is. I think it is good advice to seek out a lady with fair to good english skills. This can be vital in the early developing of the relationship. I don't recall any of them saying if she doesn't speak english it will never work out. But sharing a common language can be vitally important.

[Stepford_Wife]

Not to be negative, but how do you guys, who date women with poor English or no English what so ever, intend even to get to know the lady well? I mean she knows such necessary words as cup, dog, school, i love you, bye-bye etc, it's necessary and all good, no doubt. But is it possible to really learn smth about the personality?? How do you discuss abstract, non-tangible  topics, like philosophical stuff, is there any sense in life or we all just came to this world without any purpose, what are her views on the world, religion, why does she believe God exists/doesn't exist, how do you discuss books (other than i like/i don't like it), what is good and evil, what is freedom and if it's possible to be free at all, even talking about current economical crisis won't be possible, because one has to know quite a number of complicated words. How do you discuss politics, history, art, psychology?? And even after 1-2 years of the English  classes you will buy for her, her English will not change substantially. And not because she may be a slow learner, but 'cos that's how learning of any language works, from simple to complicated. And it will take years and years to get to the point where she will be able to express what she thinks about all those things more or less clearly.
My guess will be either all that doesn't really matter for you (love is all you need LOL), or you hope that interpreters and electronic translators will be able to help you out (which again is ridiculous).

[Diplomacy]

Oh, I love when people say "not to be negative"  My friend did just that, you that you have little chance of not getting into many of the topics of conversations you listed.  She is quite the talker lol, I am not sure how much your reply matters sometimes. She has been here over eight years now.  She spoke 100 or less words of English when she arrived.

They knew when talking through interpreters that they both wanted the same things in life, that this was not going to be easy, but they wanted a similar life and were willing to do what it took to make it happen.

I did not go that route, my fiance and I can talk at a decent level on the topics listed.  Even then it is hard, and funny as can be sometimes.

I think when you look at what type of people can make it work, it really is a special breed.  I think in most cases, the obstacle is under estimated.  Your time frame on learning a language if there is immersion, is not right.  It is much shorter than that, if there is a commitment to it, and the person does not allow their native language to be a crutch, so to speak.  Meaning, surrounding yourself with other native speakers. 

For frame of reference, it does not take an actor years to learn a dialect, and sometimes another language completely.  In your scenario, then a deaf person could never marry a person that can hear.

This country's history is filled with great examples of just the scenario, you say could not happen.  Where would we be if Sacajawea had not married Toussaint Charbonneau?  The Lewis and Clark expedition would have failed, and it would have probably sent America back a long time.  In areas where there were many men, it was very common to literally buy a wife and have her delivered.  In many cases they did not speak a common language.

In my own decent and blood line there were many such marriages to Native Americans, and other nationalities.  Even war brides that may have been in fact kidnapped.  So not to sound positive, but I think it can be done.  You often do not know what you are capable of, until you try something.

[Stepford_Wife]

So basically those men are just trying their luck, in case their  FSU woman turns out to be next Sacajawea. From the history of Ukraine we also have such examples - a little teenage girl Roxelana who was abducted by Turkish warriors, became Sultan's favorite wife and powerful Empress of the Ottaman Empire. Obviously she didn't take any Turkish before her relocation. But that's why these examples are called outstanding, as they stand out of the general picture. Let's talk about average RW and WM.
 You mentioned English-speaking environment. You are right, that will speed up the process greatly, but that means that you have to bring your girl over to the US and marry her. And then in couple years after you got married she will start speaking decent English. And that was exactly my point, how can you marry someone, whom you don't know? So English speaking environment is not really an option, as it contradicts the conditions of the task: to get to know your gf before getting married. Call me old-fashioned but i do think that that's how it's supposed to be.
About the time frame, one - two years for a language is not much, if you want to study the language properly, without horrible heavy accent, with decent grammar, rich vocabulary and correct syntax you need many years. I'm not talking about broken English.
I was taking German for 6 years, 2-3 times a week. Trying pretty hard to learn it.  Maybe I'm not as bright as an average UW, but i cannot not read serious authors like Hegel, Freud, Feuerbach, simply 'cos i don't understand 80% there. I read Remark and Hesse though, with dictionary and very slowly. As to discussing some non-tangible matters in German, God help me. Again, I'm definitely not saying I represent all UW, but allow me to express certain sceptisism as to the level of English that can be achieved through studying it thru 8-year old's books.

[Diplomacy]

I believe there was a princess chosen, when she was sleeping in a carriage.  Who happened to be a hand maiden in Russian history also.

I agree that it is another obstacle in an arena, with too many obstacles to begin with.  I also would have been weary of a translator, playing such a pinnacle role in the biggest decision of my life.

I take calculated risks, and decent English would be a minimum for me.  I just do not like the idea of a home, becoming a golden prison.  I can get a decent feel of a person, through their eyes, mannerisms, and body language.  I did not know if that transcended into Ukrainian culture or not.  It did, but I had no way of knowing that.

Some men, just want a pretty woman.  That is not the case with any of the married men that give advice here.  That is my opinion, and it is just gut feeling from posts.  My friend would tell you the same as the married men here, it was a very tough few years.  Neither of them, would wish those first few years on anyone. 

[groovlstk]

You mentioned English-speaking environment. You are right, that will speed up the process greatly, but that means that you have to bring your girl over to the US and marry her. And then in couple years after you got married she will start speaking decent English. And that was exactly my point, how can you marry someone, whom you don't know? So English speaking environment is not really an option, as it contradicts the conditions of the task: to get to know your gf before getting married. Call me old-fashioned but i do think that that's how it's supposed to be.

SW, don't get the blind romantics started - they'll bury you with references to obscure pop psychology "studies" on body language, the necessity of risk in order to find reward, anecdotes about how it "feels right" in their guts, etc. etc. Obviously the women who tell these men that they love them (with the help of a pocket translator) are less deluded and more calculating then their (temporary) husbands.

Call me old-fashioned but i do think that that's how it's supposed to be.

I don't think your attitude is old fashioned, simply grounded in reality Funny enough, most of these deluded romantics are the same guys who look to the FSU because they want a traditional woman - never mind that a traditional woman wouldn't jump into bed or marriage with a virtual stranger - but I'm sure they have some convoluted rationalization for that one, too.

[Gator]

Not to be negative, but how do you guys, who date women with poor English or no English what so ever, intend even to get to know the lady well?

Complex gesticulation. 

I attempted such.  I failed. 

It frustrated both of us to not have a serious conversation, to not resolve misunderstandings, to be unable to say something especially nice about the other.  It was too much (and she is a sensational, wonderful RW, a real thoroughbred, and gorgeous too).

[Chicagoguy]

Stepford-Wife et all,

My fiance will probably be here in April and is not very good in English. How could I possibly know who she is? Two nice visits with a dictionary isn't really much.

But we write a full page letter every day - all in English. So for 16 months now that equals 480 letters. And we have covered many, many subjects. Plus she has many opinions as do I. But we are not arguing - just discussing.

How does she do it? 1 to 2.5 hours for each letter is how. When we send SMS she replies instantly in English. She gets angry if I ever write in Russian.

Yes, it will be a year before she is able to survive and my daughter is a certified ESL teacher and she says 10 years to be fluent. To read the NYT and novels with full understanding.

But it is an adventure for me. I am retired and have the time. Chicago has the facilities to teach. I have Russian friends who live not far who can help. And I feel she is worth it.

I last dated a woman who has passable English and was full of all the arts. MUCH more than me. And the next week one who was a professor of English at a major University. But I chose love over ability.

Am I correct? Only time will tell. But if I bailed out now with language being the reason I would spend that rest of my life wondering if I lost the best thing that ever happened to me.