Are you REALLY looking for a keeper?

[SilverBUllet]

    Being in debt and being financially distressed are not necessarily the same thing. Many men have mortgages and/or car payments. They are in debt but not financially distressed.

   A tax return does little to show the state of someone's finances except to show whether or not they have an income. It does not show the amount of debt an individual has.

   The fact that Tanya's husband was in debt and did not tell her, did not stop her from marrying him so I am guessing it was not as big a deal for her as it seems to be for you.

It is called entrapment. All arrangements made, visa in hand and airtickets in her purse. Harder to then say no, isn't it? The man exploited that in my opinion. Why not just be honest when you meet first time, say hey, I am not rich, cannot afford to buy you a Bentley or new Versace designer jeans every month but I will love you and do my best. Perhaps that works better in the long run? SB

[Simoni]

Simoni, See my other posting to your question. The lady has posted this on a public web site available for everyone to read. I have properly disclosed the source, so no one should have any problems with this, not even the lady herself.

The point I am making is that by not following another poster's lisiting of many good relationship advices, this lady's own story could be used as an example of what happens when one is not upfront and honest with a wife to be from the very beginning.

Talking about speed reading, try reading this thread again, SilverBULLet.  The poster I was calling to task was not you, but the guy, GOB, who ATTACKED the girl (Reply # 11).  Women deserve respect and the benefit of the doubt, and when GOB used such harsh language in response to her heart-felt posting that you re-posted, I told him to back off.

[AnastassiaAsh]

A lady can see a man's tax returns in advance! What do you mean by 'in advance'?

Are you talking about I-134 form - Affidavit of Support? If yes, then it comes into play towards the end of the K1 process - her interview. And in my opinion this is a little too late.

[Misha]

The husband should have told his wife to be at a much earlier point that he was broke and not spring it on her 5 min before the wedding. Sounds like she is left with trying to make ends meet working hard to support what appears to be a "dead beat" husband with lots of child support required from the prior marriage. Russian women deserve a honest man disclosing everything and not be "entrapped" like this. SB

You seem to be reading a lot into the original post. How much debt is too much debt? The woman posting seems to have been in her country for many years. When she left the FSU consumer debt was pretty much nonexistent. Any debt would have been considered a lot of debt. What the woman in question did say is that they had to deal with a lot of debt, but to go from there to say that he was broke and a deadbeat husband with lots of child support is a bit of a stretch IMHO. You focus on the debt and overlook the very positive statement that she made about her husband: "His patience and love helped us to become even closer to each other. He accepts my culture and traditions and we are able to find compromises."  Hardly the words of a woman who feels "entrapped."

[ECOCKS]

Perhaps SB is referring to the Marriage Agency regulatory laws rather than the Immigration laws per se?  The marriage agencies are responsible for police report/criminal checks but I haven't a clue regarding their access to your tax returns if you are a client, not my route.

[Vaughn]

You focus on the debt and overlook the very positive statement that she made about her husband: "His patience and love helped us to become even closer to each other. He accepts my culture and traditions and we are able to find compromises."  Hardly the words of a woman who feels "entrapped."

And very much the words of a woman who, IMO, is not only a Keeper but a Saint. Personally I see quite
a bit of my own wife's character and devotion in this Tanya. I certainly had my share of shortcomings
that were accepted as fact and dealt with. Fortunately I was also considered a Keeper.

like REAL men

I'm going to give GoodOlBoy the benefit of the doubt and suppose he failed to read Tanya's entire passage,
which I found flattering to her husband. An apology is in order, at least, that's what a real man would do.

[Misha]

And very much the words of a woman who, IMO, is not only a Keeper but a Saint. Personally I see quite
a bit of my own wife's character and devotion in this Tanya. I certainly had my share of shortcomings
that were accepted as fact and dealt with. Fortunately I was also considered a Keeper.

Same here. The one thing which touched me about Tatyana's full account was the love that I felt coming through her words: she clearly loved her husband as he loved her.

[HiTech]

While I agree that you should be completely honest about your finances.  That does not necessarily mean telling all details unless your women is really asking about all details.

As example debt vs assets is something that my wife still has no concept ofm she knows all the numbers but does not understand what they imply.

A person could have 30k of CC debt,and have 30 mill net of non liquid assets such as owning businesses , and most FSU women would consider this man as poor.

I believe it is better to describe current life style and what she can expect, rather than worrying about the details. Because describing the details could  maker her think life will be much different than it is.

[groovlstk]

While I agree that you should be completely honest about your finances.  That does not necessarily mean telling all details unless your women is really asking about all details.

As example debt vs assets is something that my wife still has no concept ofm she knows all the numbers but does not understand what they imply.

I'd agree with this. If you're going to do a full disclosure of your finances you'd better accompany it with an education on what those figures mean. Without context most women will not understand. As an experiment, tell her your annual salary. Then tell her how much goes to your govt's tax coffers before you even touch it. Then get ready to do some explainin'.

[topofthekey]

I agree. I don't happen to have any debt, but at 25 there surely are guys on here with a lot more coin than me. When I decide to buy a loft or condo or whatever I'll take on a little debt. Big difference between puting a solid down payment on house with a fixed rate than rackin up credit card bills. if you are upside down on your house or have a bunch of CC debt I'd say get your own crap in order before taking this expensive ventue to begin with.

[ECOCKS]

I'd agree with this. If you're going to do a full disclosure of your finances you'd better accompany it with an education on what those figures mean. Without context most women will not understand. As an experiment, tell her your annual salary. Then tell her how much goes to your govt's tax coffers before you even touch it. Then get ready to do some explainin'.

One of my revelations about this part of the world was realizing that if I pay legal taxes and make clients pay me via invoiced, wire transfer transactions, everyone thinks I am retarded and a very poor businessman who is too stupid to realize I am enabling the oligarch thieves in the Rada to have a new dacha at my family's and employees' expense..  Oddly though, if I step over the 8 inch fencing onto the grass around the tree in front of the McDonald's to let a baby carriage go by, three babushkas begin screaming that I am an inconsiderate enemy of nature and cursing me to damnation and warts growing on my nose.

             

[Vaughn]

As an experiment, tell her your annual salary. Then tell her how much goes to your govt's tax coffers before you even touch it. Then get ready to do some explainin'.

This reminds me of a hilarious passage I read somewhere years ago - a fellow tells his intended RW that
he makes, say, $4000 a month. He doesn't bother to explain all the outgo.

"FOUR THOUSAND a month?" she reacts, almost disbelieving....walking down the sidewalk, the wheels
are spinning as she calculates, thinking to herself "My GOD, in less than a year we're going to be RICH !!!"

Myself, I had to explain income more in terms of the lifestyle she could expect. Coupled with that somewhere
along the way was a VHS video presenting our home, my 2 daughters, the center of town, and a few points
of interest (like shopping centers, LOL).  I was attempting to give her a realistic view to dispel any false notions
and fantasy that might have been filling her imagination. She appreciated the preview... and had less mystery to deal with.

[SilverBUllet]

Talking about speed reading, try reading this thread again, SilverBULLet.  The poster I was calling to task was not you, but the guy, GOB, who ATTACKED the girl (Reply # 11).  Women deserve respect and the benefit of the doubt, and when GOB used such harsh language in response to her heart-felt posting that you re-posted, I told him to back off.

Simoni, Sorry about reading faster than my keyboard can act. I couldn't agree more with you in this matter. I felt sorry for the lady reading her story. SB

[SilverBUllet]

A lady can see a man's tax returns in advance! What do you mean by 'in advance'?

Are you talking about I-134 form - Affidavit of Support? If yes, then it comes into play towards the end of the K1 process - her interview. And in my opinion this is a little too late.

Yes. As for the time aspect there are still up to 90 days for the lady to make up her mind unless she is being rushed into a marriage as soon as the visa is approved. Can see that happen with some men 

[Misha]

Simoni, Sorry about reading faster than my keyboard can act. I couldn't agree more with you in this matter. I felt sorry for the lady reading her story. SB

Why? She concludes by writing: "I think I made the best choice. I'm happy here." Hardly the words of a woman who should be pitied. Yes, she and her husband had a difficult time to begin with, and yes he should have disclosed his debts, but clearly Tatyana is happy with her husband and when writing she was still with him. How many people do you know whose lives are always perfect and never encounter any problems? I don't know many. Tatyana and her husband seem a lot happier than many other men here who had no debts when getting married (Wayne, GoUSA, etc...), but no love shared in the couple.

[SilverBUllet]

You seem to be reading a lot into the original post. How much debt is too much debt? The woman posting seems to have been in her country for many years. When she left the FSU consumer debt was pretty much nonexistent. Any debt would have been considered a lot of debt. What the woman in question did say is that they had to deal with a lot of debt, but to go from there to say that he was broke and a deadbeat husband with lots of child support is a bit of a stretch IMHO. You focus on the debt and overlook the very positive statement that she made about her husband: "His patience and love helped us to become even closer to each other. He accepts my culture and traditions and we are able to find compromises."  Hardly the words of a woman who feels "entrapped."

Misha, I felt sorry for the lady. First she was upset about the debt and the hardship it had caused (we don't know the details) but most men having gone through a divorce ends up broke......The lady then accepted the situation as a compromise since her husband wasn't too bad after all. It is typical attitude of a Russian woman accepting her faith good or bad and not complaining. They need to look better after themselves and not accept everything. It sounds like entrapment to me, just my opinion. SB

[Misha]

It sounds like entrapment to me, just my opinion. SB

Based on the last line she wrote, she seems happy for a woman that was entrapped.

[SilverBUllet]

Why? She concludes by writing: "I think I made the best choice. I'm happy here." Hardly the words of a woman who should be pitied. Yes, she and her husband had a difficult time to begin with, and yes he should have disclosed his debts, but clearly Tatyana is happy with her husband and when writing she was still with him. How many people do you know whose lives are always perfect and never encounter any problems? I don't know many. Tatyana and her husband seem a lot happier than many other men here who had no debts when getting married (Wayne, GoUSA, etc...), but no love shared in the couple.

What I picked up on in particular was when she states:

"I have many Russian friends, although I don't get to see them as often as I want to. But if something bad will happen, I'm sure they'll support me."

Misha, the statement: "But if something bad will happen, I'm sure they'll support me." Doesn't sound like everything is ok to me, why would the lady think like this? SB

[Diplomacy]

I have many Russian friends, although I don't get to see them as often as I want to. But if something bad will happen, I'm sure they'll support me.

I will teach you a golden rule.  Make sure you understand what is meant by any RW, do not even think about thinking about what is meant.

If I was to guess she is talking about the level of friendship.  Not being as deep in America as they have in Russia.  It is often a situation of less friends that are much closer.  You could only rely on your friends and family quite often in Russia.  Even to the level of having the wrong friend could get you Enemy of the State billboard material.  The right friend could open up areas of red tape and influence something that you may need.

Now, I am not discussing this with her, and therefore not following the golden rule myself. 

Areas concerning no money or debt.  You are talking about a culture that could run circles around us in true hardship.  Let me see 20 million casualties in Great Patriotic War, Stalin and starvation, scorched earth twice, Ques, Orthodox Church members killed by the thousands, 2 revolutions, KGB/NKVD/FSB killing in the 10 million plus range, Mafia murders, and who knows what else I am leaving off the list.

One of the strongest attributes I believe a FSUW has, is if it gets real bad she can handle it.  Just same story different regime.  All IMO of course

Oh, and as for the RM.  Say what you want but if they had not held the Eastern Front by themselves for the most part against the Germans.  We would have a better than 0 chance of all be writing in German ATM.

I think we as Americans tend to forget that detail after the Cold War.  They did a heck of a job too.

[Misha]

What I picked up on in particular was when she states:

"I have many Russian friends, although I don't get to see them as often as I want to. But if something bad will happen, I'm sure they'll support me."

Misha, the statement: "But if something bad will happen, I'm sure they'll support me." Doesn't sound like everything is ok to me, why would the lady think like this? SB

You do have a need to see doom and gloom everywhere from what I take it. I read this line as saying that she is happy to have friends she believes she can count on if it was necessary. Hardly a cry for help. Then she follows that line by saying: "My husband's family accepted me very well. And now even one of my brothers-in-law is thinking to find a wife abroad, because he sees our example." Clearly, she is miserable and stuck in a bad marriage 

[dispozo]

I just feel sorry for the lady and hope this will make other men think twice and do a full disclosure prior to marriage and not spring it on 5 minutes before the wedding.  US immigration laws for fiance visas have changed and a full disclosure of financials and criminal background check of the husband to be is now required and is provided to the lady. I call it progress for the female cause. Makes sense?  SB 
 

I am currently in the K-1 process....

The only thing the consulate is looking for is that you meet the 125% above the poverty guideline.

There is a criminal check on both parties.

But as far as I can tell there is no full disclosure on finances. They want a I-134, pay stubs, W2, tax returns, bank statement and a letter from current employer. These are only giving at the interview, not much time for a lady to get a good look at them in my book.

[AnastassiaAsh]

It was totally dishonest on the guy's part not to tell his wife-to-be about the whole debt situation. I am sure she would have understood and accepted it as she loved him. But you see, this is a common mistake men do - conceal, do not say the whole thing, make different stresses to conceal the main thing...It doesn't matter if she will understand it or not. It's a man's responsibility to sit down with her long before marriage, before filling out K1 papers, and explain the whole thing. There should be healthy and patient conversation about it.

Now, i am not sure if she is still happy, as usually such dishonesty, especially about big stuff, is just a top of the iceberg, what else didn't he tell her? Why was he afraid to tell her sooner? If he had doubts, were they founded on her behavior or what? Where does this mistrust come from? How can you marry a person who you do not trust. This is horrible in my opinion and shouldn't happen, neither at the beginning, nor in the middle nor the end of the courtship.

The fact that it seems she is happy right now and writing about it - doesn't really cross out his wrong doing. Yes, maybe she just accepted it as she was led in the corner, but this is so far from the happiest time it should have been for both of them.

I don't know what i would have done. I would have called it off probably. Some time ago, when i was at the stage of correspondence, I used to get many emails from different men. Some had really great profiles, but stumbled with such a petty dishonesty like lying about their age or some little thing like that. For most people I assume this is nothing but to me this is more than disgusting. If you can lie about this, then you can lie about many more small things and at the end it will all lead to you lying about big things. No way to even start building a relationship.

[groovlstk]

If you can lie about this, then you can lie about many more small things and at the end it will all lead to you lying about big things. No way to even start building a relationship.

There's a saying I have come to believe, "lies are like cockroaches." Meaning if you go into someone's home and see one roach, you can bet the farm that there are a whole lot more hidden in the walls and cupboard.

[Vaughn]

.... but this is so far from the happiest time it should have been for both of them.

Anastassia, I agree that honesty is the best policy - the ONLY policy, actually. What I cannot
understand is how you can possibly make that kind of judgment on this couple's behalf. Am I wrong
in assuming that "should have been for both of them" was really intended as "would have been for
both of us"?

I never "tested" my fiance with fabrication or avoidance of truth, but I will admit that her
capacity to forgive was one important element in my decision to marry Elvira. I guess it
all boils down to this: for what infractions, mild or major, is a woman capable of forgiveness? 

[Admin]

Simoni, See my other posting to your question. The lady has posted this on a public web site available for everyone to read. I have properly disclosed the source, so no one should have any problems with this, not even the lady herself.

The point I am making is that by not following another poster's lisiting of many good relationship advices, this lady's own story could be used as an example of what happens when one is not upfront and honest with a wife to be from the very beginning.

I just feel sorry for the lady and hope this will make other men think twice and do a full disclosure prior to marriage and not spring it on 5 minutes before the wedding.  US immigration laws for fiance visas have changed and a full disclosure of financials and criminal background check of the husband to be is now required and is provided to the lady. I call it progress for the female cause. Makes sense?  SB 

SB,

>>US immigration laws for fiance visas have changed and a full disclosure of financials and criminal background check of the husband to be is now required and is provided to the lady.<<

Yours is a mis-statement of the law. Suggest you perform a simple search for the term 'IMBRA' and you will find an abundance of FACTUAL information (more than 5 pages worth of results) pertaining to the legislation, including the following:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1145.0
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2921.0
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=4208.0
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=4251.0
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5716.0
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8090.0
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8323.0

And many more . . .

And, of course, the IMBRA legislation itself, found here -- http://www.goodwife.com/index.php?pid=14.

SB, it would behoove you to conduct just a modicum of research here before jumping into topics with misinformation.

In point of fact, IMBRA, just as the title states - is regulation of International Marriage Brokers. To this point, nearly 3 years after passage of IMBRA, little to nothing has been enforced (reference the GAO report in one of the links above), however, the regulatory impact has been felt by those working with and through an agency. The Act does not impose a requirement on the individual, it imposes a number of requirements on the agencies that require them to collect certain information and pass it along. This is NOT a universal requirement applying to all fiance visas, as you state.

Read up. You will be glad you did.

- Dan