TR: Barnaul/Tver, Russia

[SMS60]

Nope SMS60, it's neither a false statement nor a figment in my imagination.  It's fact.  It's real world stuff.  Sometimes people do things for strange reasons, it just happens.  And no I was not planted to create traffic, whatever that means.

Try to keep your comments more respectful in the future.

Best,

Jerry

Jerry I will explain my statements. If it was true love from the ladies they would not have bailed on you. I think you missed the signs. In your mind (imagination) you were sure they loved you. You were fooled, everyones been there. They were acting for you. You mistook it for something else.

I stick by my statements.

[Tatiana]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,
My name is Tatiana Krasnova, I am the director of Russian Pearls Agency in Barnaul. I decided not to stay in a shadow and write a couple of words about this TR because I believe that every situation have two sides.
My agency was established in 1999 and we have more than 400 happily married couples all over the world – USA, Germany, Belgium, France, New Zealand, Japan, Holland, Australia and so on. I believe that this brief information can tell you a little bit more about our agency.
To tell the truth, that is my first experience of writing on forums and facing with negative information about my agency, but in any case, that is experience and I believe that any situation we face with, gives us both positive and negative things.
Ok, I’ll begin with positive )). I am grateful to Jerry, that as he had promised, he gave us his recommendations, though when he was in Barnaul he was talking about “brilliant” recommendations )). Well, but even negative recommendations helped many people to learn about us! And I am grateful to everybody who can see both sides in this situation. Especially I am grateful to those who decided to clarify and understand the situation and contacted me personally in order to learn about the other side. And I also want to thank many members of this forum – ambach123, Kuna, Utrobina, Mark8000 and many others who can see a little bit more than Jerry has written.
I don’t want to accuse or offend Jerry, that wouldn’t be correct. We work with each client individually and I know each woman of my agency personally. We try to help maximum to both a man and a woman and the clue of our work is not the number of meetings but the quality of relations. We try to help to the client to understand what partner he or she needs because prior to meeting they have only virtual photos and virtual communication. And we try to help man to understand his desires and understand what kind of woman he is looking for. The trip to the mountains is a wonderful chance to make next step in relations from restaurant communication to more serious relations where 24 hours a day people can see each other and try to find the common language (this is very important because we live in different worlds!). and after such a trip, when people feel and understand each other, they can talk about the future. We don’t have any agreements with the hotels in the resort, there are dozens of them and the man chooses what he likes and wants. And I never tell to a lady that there is something bad in a man or that he is not right for her! That is absurd, my goal is to help two people to see in each other (during such a short period of time) only good and positive things.
Jerry, you are a very nice man, I told you about that before looking into your eyes and want to repeat it again. You have all chances to find that one and only lady who will be with you in good and bad. Please, do not believe that I try to press you but accept it as your friend’s advice – when you try to build relations with a woman you need to look at any situation through her eyes and try to understand what a woman wants in this or that situation. That is not so easy as it may seem to be )). And probably that is the advice for all men who are looking for their soul mate on the other side of the world. The agency is not an enemy, it is an advisor. Even when you come to the most professional psychologist, you will not get the algorithm of happiness, but they will help you to see and understand your situation from many sides.
Thank you for your attention and time to read this. I don’t want to justify myself because I don’t see any reasons for that.
Tatiana
PS: Jerry, there was a short delay with meeting at the airport (I believe about 5 minutes) because when I came to the parking at 5:00 I couldn’t start my car because of cold weather and I had to call to Oksana (the interpreter of the agency) and ask her to take the taxi and come to meet you at the airport.

[OlgaH]

Tatiana Very nice response, you show true class.   


LEGAL

Sorry I posted under OlgaH

 
LEGAL

[Vinnvinny]

Tatiana: Most members here will realise that there are always 2 sides to every story and you seem to have put forward your points in a highly professional manner. Personally I lost interest in Jerry’s trip when he wrote in his opening post …..

In addition, this agency wanted me to spend two or three days alone with a woman, to take her to a resort in the mountains after only one or two meetings!  I couldn't believe it.

Previously I had exchanged emails with ladies, WOVO, VMVM, visited agencies etc, etc ... to no avail. I ended up meeting my fiancé as a result of just one introductory email from me and one reply from her. We knew really nothing about each other yet we both took a chance on agreeing to spend 3 days together in Kiev which on the face of it was madness. Sometimes in life you need to take a few risks that are outside your normal comfort zone.

Jerry: I have only briefly read your thread but I couldn't help but think two things.

1)   You seem to be a really nice, honest and genuine chap.
2)   If something doesn’t seem to be working then maybe it's time wipe the slate clean and try a completely different approach. 

Good luck.

[UTRO]

I concur. Very classy and respectful. No mudslinging.
Welcome to RWD Tatiana

Dave.

[Vinnvinny]

Also Jerry, the fact that Tatiana was trying to get you to spend quality time together with one of her ladies should tell you what a good honest agency she is running. Scam agencies have a vested interest in avoiding such situations for what should be obvious reasons.

[groovlstk]

The agency is not an enemy, it is an advisor.

If only this were remotely true.

There are so many dishonest agencies out there that guys with any experience are wise to take a skeptical approach even when dealing with those who have good, solid reputations.

I'd also say that Jerry is clearly not a socially awkward guy who couldn't get a date in his own country - i.e., he's not the type of guy who needs an agency "advisor" to tell him whether or not a girl is interested in him and what to do on a first date. Many of us have different opinions on the role agencies should play in all this, but after my first few trips, all I wanted was an honest firm that could provide introductions to real women. And when my boots were on the ground, the agency's role was to line em up and get out of the way.

[Gator]

If only this were remotely true.

There are so many dishonest agencies out there that guys with any experience are wise to take a skeptical approach even when dealing with those who have good, solid reputations.

I'd also say that Jerry is clearly not a socially awkward guy who couldn't get a date in his own country - i.e., he's not the type of guy who needs an agency "advisor" to tell him whether or not a girl is interested in him and what to do on a first date. Many of us have different opinions on the role agencies should play in all this, but after my first few trips, all I wanted was an honest firm that could provide introductions to real women. And when my boots were on the ground, the agency's role was to line em up and get out of the way.

Some men do need for an agency to play an active role.  As you say Groov, Jerry is not one of them.  I had far better results (and worse results too) by contacting women directly via the large listing agencies such as Elena's Models. There are several tradeoffs.  An agency can be very helpful if it truly knows the women listed in the catalogue.

Regarding jerry's complaint about the 3-day trip, was it the price of the trip or the fact he was not ready for such a trip? 

An agency is entitled to make a reasonable profit, especially if services are good quality.  As it developed, Jerry did travel to another city and surely paid  fees for meetings.  Which generates more fees: the 3-day trip or three days of meetings?

Almost all of us push the timelines when romancing RW.  A 3-day trip after a couple of short meetings certainly does that.   When using any local agency, some men do date 2-4 women concurrently for a week, bedding all of them, or at least trying.  The 3-day trip prevents that, requiring the man to focus on one woman.  If the couple is compatible, the three days would be heaven.  If mismatched (which could easily occur if they have had only a couple of coffee and cake meetings), the three days could be hell for the man. I had such a vacation from hell with one UW - what a waste of money and especially my time.

[Turboguy]

Tatiana, welcome to the forum.   I think you did an excellent job of presenting your side of the story.  Sometimes there is no right or wrong but just a difference of opinion and lack of understanding.

I was the one who talked Jerry into using your agency.   My wife was a member there and even though we did not meet through your agency she has always had nothing but good to say about you and your services.   She also considers you to be a wonderful person who really tries to help the men and women who use your agency find happiness.

I think sometimes things just don't work out as we expect.  I like Jerry and respect him and believe the things he said.  I also am quite sure that you do your best to run your agency in a professional and ethical manner and do appreciate your coming here and telling your side of things.

[UTRO]

If only this were remotely true.
I'd also say that Jerry is clearly not a socially awkward guy who couldn't get a date in his own country - i.e., he's not the type of guy who needs an agency "advisor" to tell him whether or not a girl is interested in him and what to do on a first date. Many of us have different opinions on the role agencies should play in all this, but after my first few trips, all I wanted was an honest firm that could provide introductions to real women. And when my boots were on the ground, the agency's role was to line em up and get out of the way.

I would say that Jerry isn't a guy who needs an Agency. He says that his Russian language skills are more that adequate and he's been to the FSU enough to know the in's, out's and culture. It's time for him to put his profile back out on the Web again.
Jerry's less than happy opinion about Russian Pearls Agency is just one opinion. As I recall Turboguy was pretty happy, no?
To me, getting away to a nice place with a Russian Woman is a very good idea. This is what I did, however, only after getting to know her through 3 months of multiple daily emails, texts and phone calls.

ooops, sorry Turbo, I see you posted while I was composing. I didn't realize that you didn't personally use Pearls and it was your wife who was a client there. Well her experience from the 'other side' is even more credible, since she would have been the one told to act one way or another to male clients.

[groovlstk]

Previously I had exchanged emails with ladies, WOVO, VMVM, visited agencies etc, etc ... to no avail. I ended up meeting my fiancé as a result of just one introductory email from me and one reply from her. We knew really nothing about each other yet we both took a chance on agreeing to spend 3 days together in Kiev which on the face of it was madness. Sometimes in life you need to take a few risks that are outside your normal comfort zone.

Jerry met and spent time with this woman and regardless of whatever else was happening, he didn't feel comfortable going away with her alone for three days. I don't see where and how he erred - he followed his instincts, he obeyed The Golden Rule.

You know how his trip report would have differed if he'd have gone on that three-day vacation? He'd have spent a few paragraphs complaining about how awkward it felt to be trapped in a hotel with a girl he didn't truly dig. (I know, cuz I've been there, done that, early in my search.)

Who knows what's "best" for Jerry's future, a vendor (who is essentially a stranger) or Jerry himself?

During my search I made plenty of mistakes, but they were my mistakes and I learned from them.

I won't argue with those who think Jerry might benefit from shaking things up a bit and trying something new in the future, but not if trying something new means ignoring his instincts or letting someone else captain his ship.

[TwoBitBandit]

I don’t want to accuse or offend Jerry, that wouldn’t be correct. We work with each client individually and I know each woman of my agency personally. We try to help maximum to both a man and a woman and the clue of our work is not the number of meetings but the quality of relations. We try to help to the client to understand what partner he or she needs because prior to meeting they have only virtual photos and virtual communication. And we try to help man to understand his desires and understand what kind of woman he is looking for. The trip to the mountains is a wonderful chance to make next step in relations from restaurant communication to more serious relations where 24 hours a day people can see each other and try to find the common language (this is very important because we live in different worlds!). and after such a trip, when people feel and understand each other, they can talk about the future.

Tatiana,

It appears to me that you're avoiding the main issue.  I can understand Jerry's point that he didn't want to go to a resort with a girl he didn't feel strong chemistry with.  This is especially true if he doesn't feel chemistry AND he doesn't know the woman that well.  Spending a lot of time in close quarters with a girl you're not into is just a way to waste time (at best), and at worst is a way for the relationship to become sexual before it is ready and really result in someone's feelings being severely hurt.

Yet, you felt Jerry's approach of just meeting girls as "friends" and slowly seeing what develops was so inappropriate that you refused to let him continue to meet other women in your agency?  It's not just that you disagreed with his approach: you were so offended by it that you refused to do business with him?

[Faux Pas]

Ok so I get to Barnaul at around 5:50 am their time (+3 hours from Moscow) and I'm using the Russian Pearls agency.  They were late in picking me up, supposedly due to their car having difficulties (it ran fine later that morning and didn't have problems again while I was there, so hmmmmm...).  They did show up after I waited for a short time, so hey..

To cut to the chase here: I cannot recommend the agency Russian Pearls and then some.  There were a couple of times when they left me without any support whatsoever for two or more days at a time and if I had been a newbie at this thing, I would have been in deep sheet river without any waist-high boots to help out.  This is because Barnaul is in Siberia and though some people speak English, most of them don't.  It's not like cities further West, nearer to Moscow where a higher number of people speak English, especially in the hotels.  None of the folk in my hotel for example spoke any English and only one of the women I met spoke the language (and only a few words).  Fortunately I can speak and read Russian fairly well and know how to get around a Russian city to get stuff done that I need done.  A couple of the women I had met had given me their cell phone numbers, so I was able to call and arrange meetings with them on my own when the agency wasn't available.  In addition, this agency wanted me to spend two or three days alone with a woman, to take her to a resort in the mountains after only one or two meetings!  I couldn't believe it.  After the fourth or fifth time they suggested this, I started to wonder if they didn't have some kind of kickback arrangement with the resort that they kept pushing or something.  Dunno, just strange.  I told them that I prefer to keep things at the "friends level" for a while when I meet a woman, to have several meetings like that first and then see if anything develops.  They told me that this was not "the correct way" of finding a woman and then subsequently refused to arrange any meetings with new women! (where "new women" == women I haven't met in person yet)  I started to wonder who had paid who in this scenario.  However as a veteran of this endeavor I know that it's pointless to argue or raise a fuss with these folk because you just come off looking like a rude foreigner and as I am not the type to "raise the roof" anyway, I just decided to bail.  Discretion is the better part of valor anyway right?  The real issue with these folk however revealed itself when I went to leave Barnaul.  I had suspected that they were not being on the up-n-up with me and the women I met, and sure enough I was right.  One of the girls who I decided to keep contact with (it's now down to one) told me that the agency had called her and told her that I was not a "good man", that I didn't know what I wanted, that she should end the relationship with me and that they'd find a "good man" for her later on.  Couldn't believe it!  I was just glad I was leaving because had I seen either of the women from the agency again, I'd probably have given them a large piece of my mind, and I prefer not doing that in general.  Be a gentleman always, right?

Tatiana

I think I can speak for many in thanking you for coming to the forum in defense of your agency and presenting your side to this puzzling story. One member praising your agency and another with clearly some  problems with aspects of your agency's service. More specifically, please address those statements in bold in the quoted text. The last statement I personally find a bit disturbing where your agency is accused of calling a lady and instructing her that Jerry was not a good man?

I can personally see where some of the others points made by Jerry could have been a result of miscommunication. The last one appears as sabotage on the part of your agency. Did this happen? Is this the full story or are there other elements we have not been informed of? I honestly can't see Jerry making false statements of this nature to damage your agency's reputation. What would he have to gain?

[BC]

The last statement I personally find a bit disturbing where your agency is accused of calling a lady and instructing her that Jerry was not a good man?

I can personally see where some of the others points made by Jerry could have been a result of miscommunication. The last one appears as sabotage on the part of your agency. Did this happen? Is this the full story or are there other elements we have not been informed of? I honestly can't see Jerry making false statements of this nature to damage your agency's reputation. What would he have to gain?

I kinda give benefit of doubt to those that have interacted personally with both parties.

We surely don't know squat here..

[Simoni]

The trip to the mountains is a wonderful chance to make next step in relations from restaurant communication to more serious relations where 24 hours a day people can see each other and try to find the common language...

Jerry made the correct decision in declining "such a trip."  Why spend three days with a stranger?  Oh, there is one benefit... :-) 

But personally, I recommend that guys know the girl really well before they devote three days to her.

Going with someone you have barely met is moving too fast, IMHO.  And you may have wasted three days, if the couple does not click.

[Daveman]

Well now, this thread has taken an interesting twist.  

Thanks for coming to our forum and posting, Tatiana.  I have to agree with others who have posted concerns about agency interference.  This might not apply to your agency, but some agencies do attempt to control every aspect of a visit which tends to get in the way of a natural relaxed chemistry between a man and woman.  Meaning, that most of us are adults and really don't require the 'hand holding' of an agency. Once the man and woman meet, then they should take their time to "hit it off" or not, and then decide if they want to go into a 24/7 environment together for a few days.  

It seems from your post, though I could easily be mistaken, that you have a 'one size fits all' method.  Personalities and comfort zones vary and sometimes greatly so.  

Dave

[Vinnvinny]

Jerry gave me the impression that he was against the idea of spending a few days together with any lady who he had only met a few times, regardless of how much they connected and my comments were based purely on that observation. Sure, it’s his prerogative, his life, his decision but personally I don’t think having an ‘ultra-conservative personality’ is helping his pursuit for a Russian wife.

Going with someone you have barely met is moving too fast, IMHO.  And you may have wasted three days, if the couple does not click.

Call me naive but I am assuming that if the couple didn’t click then they wouldn’t have gone away together in the first place. I agree, it could be interpreted as moving too fast but, when you are living on the other side of the world, it might be a good idea not to ‘fanny about’ too much or else the girl might move on ....... as has happened to Jerry’s twice before.

[Simoni]

... it might be a good idea not to ‘fanny about’ too much or else the girl might move on ....... as has happened to Jerry’s twice before.

This is not a game, so yes, I would call such statements naive. 

It's marriage, and it's a good thing if the girl "moves on" if you don't care enough about her to spend three days with her.   Gee... I met more than 50 girls over a number of years before I chose one. Can you imagine if I had gone away with each to the mountains for three days???? 

It is not a race. Take your time and don't spend time with girls you are not interested in.

[Faux Pas]

I kinda give benefit of doubt to those that have interacted personally with both parties.

We surely don't know squat here..

I'm not sure what you are saying here BC. All the doubt to TurboGuy? I'm not seeing him as having a dog in this hunt other than the rest of us. On one hand we have a credible forum member who states he was clearly interfered by said agency. On the other hand we hand the agency head, appears credible, attempting to set the record straight. Although she didn't address the subject of interference which I see as a very important aspect. I'm asking for clarification. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Vinnvinny]

Wow, I didn’t realise our versions of the English language were so different! 

This is not a game! 

It's marriage, and it's a good thing if the girl "moves on" if you don't care enough about her to spend three days with her.

I thought I clearly wrote “I am assuming that if the couple didn’t click then they wouldn’t have gone away together in the first place.” I've read my comment again yep, that’s exactly what I wrote.

Gee... I met more than 50 girls over a number of years before I chose one. Can you imagine if I had gone away with each to the mountains for three days???? 

What, you clicked with all 50 girls and they clicked with you and it was just a matter of which one you were going to choose? Respect. 

It is not a race. Take your time and don't spend time with girls you are not interested in.

Couldn’t agree with you more but who here has ever said it was a race and that you should spend time with girls you’re not interested in?

[Simoni]

Wow, I didn’t realise our versions of the English language were so different! 

You clearly wrote:

it might be a good idea not to ‘fanny about’ too much or else the girl might move on ....... as has happened to Jerry’s twice before.

So I'm saying don't attack the RWD member who is on the ground and making his own decisions about his life.  It's a GOOD thing that he "fannied about" and did not get hooked to non-serious girls in the past.   Guys-- take your time and make the right decisions, and make the same decisions Jerry did when an agency tried to push him into a trip with a girl he was not interested in.

[Vinnvinny]

Simoni: Jerry has made it quite clear that he isn’t comfortable spending extended time with any lady if he has only met her a couple of times. As he has reiterated this on a number of occasions I have assumed that this would apply even if he believed she was the ‘one’. Of course I don’t have a problem with that but, as he is still looking after 20+ visits and dating at home then maybe, just maybe he should consider a re-think.

I suspect he is astute and intelligent enough to know that I am not ‘attacking a fellow RWD member’, just simply offering a different perspective that may or may not be of value. I gather that is what this and most other similar forums are all about.

I am sure Jerry will understand this, take my comments as genuine and refrain from changing the context of them .... unlike yourself. 

[Simoni]

...Jerry has made it quite clear that he isn’t comfortable spending extended time with any lady if he has only met her a couple of times. 

...I am sure Jerry will understand this, take my comments as genuine and refrain from changing the context of them .... unlike yourself. 

The context is clear. You think Jerry should have gone away with this girl.  I say no.  He said no to the offer as well.
Save your precious time for girls you are seriously interested in.

[Simoni]

I suspect he is astute and intelligent enough to know that I am not ‘attacking a fellow RWD member...

I'm just reacting to your language "it might be a good idea not to ‘fanny about’ too much or else the girl might move on ....... as has happened to Jerry’s twice before."

The "fanny about" and "happened to Jerry twice before" was an attack, IMHO.   Jerry is happy, I'm happy, so the glass is fine.

[UTRO]

I'm just reacting to your language "it might be a good idea not to ‘fanny about’ too much or else the girl might move on ....... as has happened to Jerry’s twice before."

The "fanny about" and "happened to Jerry twice before" was an attack, IMHO.   Jerry is happy, I'm happy, so the glass is fine.

Simoni, get your FSU wife to read Jerry's Postings and then get back to us regarding what she thinks.....