Education matters. Or not?

[Diplomacy]

SJ:

I just went through a similar scenario.  The FSUW was kicking and screaming about being a little worker and only there to make money.  She has been here 2 years, and is making $800 month.

So it we take it to simple math, the following has my questions for my fiance.

She did not work the first 6 months in the USA?

Approximate $250 a week before taxes (minimum wage is $6.55)

She is not even working 40 hours a week after more questions

18 X $800 = $14,400

One trip for 3 months to Ukraine

Lets call it $4,000

=$10,400

Not making money for 3 months, plus spending money on going to Ukraine.
$ - 2,400 for loss of income
= $8,000
$2,000 in GC fees

= $6,000
$400 on K1

=$5,600

Flight to USA

$1,110

=$4,300

2 Years of food, housing, wedding, entertainment, etc

I went through this with my Fiance.  Her answer was her friend just does not want to work.  IMO it is similar to having friends over, and clearing out the food before they arrive.  Make it appear something it is not. 

Only one case. 

In this case does it really appear to be a wife of a controlling husband and a woman forced into servitude?

[Ade]

There are thousands of urban legends in circulation that people thing are true, yet are false. What your are presenting are stories being circulated on forums based on a friend of a a friend of a second cousin twice removed  :evil: Hardly factual evidence.

Actually there's at least one man I know of in Norway that was prosecuted because he married a Filipino woman, took her passport away from her and basically used her as his slave.

It happens, probably not as often as the urban legends say, but it does happen.

[BC]

In this case does it really appear to be a wife of a controlling husband and a woman forced into servitude?

The numbers and facts you stated are only a tip of the iceberg. Could go either way and that is just guessing.

[Simoni]

The numbers and facts you stated are only a tip of the iceberg. Could go either way and that is just guessing.

Don't know about that "either way" part.  The VAST majority of fsu women coming into the US will not maintain their fsu job status and will not work at all at first, or make a fraction of what their occupation earned them at home.  And the other costs-- dental, driving lessons, English lessons, university training, etc. will cost much more than they can earn.

It's silly to think that a western man goes to the fsu to get a wife to help him get out of debt.

[Misha]

Actually there's at least one man I know of in Norway that was prosecuted because he married a Filipino woman, took her passport away from her and basically used her as his slave.

Define slave. If he was using her as a slave, how was he sending her off to work each day? What is the issue we are discussing: marrying a woman so she can work for you to pay off your debt or marrying a woman that you try to trap at home. It is hard keeping a woman as a "slave" and sending her off every day to work 9-5 

It happens, probably not as often as the urban legends say, but it does happen.

Besides, if we are talking about forcing women to work in the sex industry, a lot of that happens in Russia. Read up on the case of the gang that was kidnapping women, beating them into submission and forcing them to work as prostitutes in Nizhny Tagil. Those who refused were killed. The gang was eventually convicted of killing 15 women, I expect that many more women were likely murdered by them.

[Ade]

For crying out loud guys, it's irrelevant if it makes sense, even if it doesn't happen or if it does happen whether the guys that do it make any money out of it. The fact is there are women who fear this happening so they actively steer clear of guys with debt. Period.

[BC]

The fact is there are women who fear this happening so they actively steer clear of guys with debt. Period.

Overall, probably a good policy IMHO.

[Misha]

The fact is there are women who fear this happening so they actively steer clear of guys with debt. Period.

Well, this will eliminate most men. Who exactly doesn't have a mortgage or a car loan? True, you might have the odd man close to retirement who has paid off his house or the occasional very wealthy guy. The others will have some debt. Besides, debt is becoming pretty rampant in Russia, or at least it was before the crisis.

[groovlstk]

For crying out loud guys, it's irrelevant if it makes sense, even if it doesn't happen or if it does happen whether the guys that do it make any money out of it. The fact is there are women who fear this happening so they actively steer clear of guys with debt. Period.

I had zero debt and plenty of assets when I got engaged and now I'm a few hundred Gs in the hole, thank God I tricked my wife into marrying me before jumping into the debt pool 

Maybe such women are better off marrying those thirtysomething Italian guys living with mom and dad, waiting to inherit the family home? After all, they are debt-free, no?

IMHO, the subject of debt is ripe for misunderstanding, particulary on a forum for RW where people will speak in such absolutes.

[Misha]

Maybe such women are better off marrying those thirtysomething Italian guys living with mom and dad, waiting to inherit the family home? After all, they are debt-free, no?

Well, they can also do what most RW do: marry a nice Russian guy and go live with him and his parents or have him move in with you and your parents and live debt free 

[BC]

Well, this will eliminate most men. Who exactly doesn't have a mortgage or a car loan? True, you might have the odd man close to retirement who has paid off his house or the occasional very wealthy guy. The others will have some debt. Besides, debt is becoming pretty rampant in Russia, or at least it was before the crisis.

I am neither wealthy, nor at retirement age but I would never, ever have asked my bank for a loan or maxed my CC's carousing women here or abroad.

I guess the real question is 'Do you have enough disposable income to afford this venture?'.. Consider the risk of loosing your job or important contract at some point (happened here), the cost of a newborn (happened here), visits to/from FSU (happened here several times), a wee bit of support back home to help out with utilities and apartment costs (happens here), and the list goes on and on..  Is there even the remotest possibility that you could loose your home and car due to some unforeseen situation that can and DO arise from time to time?

It all adds up to a lot of 'disposable'..  say about 2.5 to 3K/month for the first couple years.

As an employer, I would probably fire on the spot any employee that was chasing a RW..  Luckily I couldn't fire myself..  Said it a million times..  The only thing I promised my wife to be is a house over her head and good food on the table.. It was the only thing I could truly guarantee in good faith, even if I would have to extend the veggie garden and get a few chickens, a cow and a goat or two for BBQ.

In this highly emotional venture it's simply too easy to loose your head.

[Misha]

It all adds up to a lot of 'disposable'..  say about 2.5 to 3K/month for the first couple years.

In this highly emotional venture it's simply too easy to loose your head.

Well, using your formula I would not have married my wife. Would she have been better single? Well, let's see, she is still with me, though she doesn't have to be with me, while other men with lots of disposable income have been dumped. I will draw my own conclusions  :evil:

[BC]

Well, using your formula I would not have married my wife. Would she have been better single? Well, let's see, she is still with me, though she doesn't have to be with me, while other men with lots of disposable income have been dumped. I will draw my own conclusions  :evil:

Misha,

Am truly happy for ya!

I'll still stick to my guns and tell guys flat out: "Don't go into debt (or more debt) over this venture"

[Vinnvinny]

not

[Misha]

I'll still stick to my guns and tell guys flat out: "Don't go into debt (or more debt) over this venture"

Well, did I say that I went into debt. Simply, learned to be more frugal, and my wife helped me immensely with that. Not all men marry princesses looking for sugar daddies. This is what my wife told me over lunch (no prompting): "I understood you were good and kind on our first date, and I decided that you would be mine." No worries about debt bondage  Of course, she said this in Russian and I am providing a translation.

[Chicagoguy]

There is an American dentist who practices near me. Went to Siberia on some sort of exchange trip and found a Russian folk singer. Even though the folk singer did not speak English they were married and the last I heard they were happy.

Don't know how much the folk singer makes but the wife, the dentist, does well.

Where is the web page for American women looking for Russian men ?   

[possum]

Where is the web page for American women looking for Russian men ?   

There is no such page.. Believe me, I've looked.

[ScottinCrimea]

One thing being overlooked here is that many women own an apartment in the FSU that, even with the current economy, can be worth a lot of money.  I'm sure there are a few guys out there that have noted this and thought selling her apartment would be a means for him to get out of debt.

[Gator]

Where is the web page for American women looking for Russian men ?   

Don't know but its happening. 

http://www.mnweekly.ru/national/20080424/55325647.html


http://www.expat.ru/forum/family-children/13916-you-happy-russian-man-you-married.html


Perhaps this:

http://absoluteagency.com/singles/ru_men.html

There is no such page.. Believe me, I've looked.

Why not you and your friends create your own!  I recall a couple of AW members at RWD engaged to RM.

[possum]

Why not you and your friends create your own!  I recall a couple of AW members at RWD engaged to RM.

I wouldn't know where to start as it's just me.. I don't have any friends that would be interested in this sort of thing, and besides by making such a page I would effectively be starting an agency, albeit a one-man agency, and I'm not sure that's the route I want to go.. you know, the agency route.

[possum]

Getting back on topic, a degree from the FSU is useless as an indicator of a curious mind.. It's pretty much mandatory and a good way to avoid the draft, for guys that is.. I'd look for other signs of intelligence, such as books, hobbies that involve critical thinking and learning new things, etc.

[kievstar]

Most of the big condo builders in Milwaukee are Ukraine men who married AW.  Very rich men to.  I was surprised when I bought my condo about 3 years ago and this builder told me many men marry women in USA from Ukraine.  But a lot easier as men can travel easy to USA.  Not all AM are angels.  

Even the most famous soccer / football star in Ukraine married an AW from Minnesota.  She was a professional model.

[Julia G]

It's silly to think that a western man goes to the fsu to get a wife to help him get out of debt.

As far as I know the situation women are afraid not the idea men want to use them this way, but of possibility that if something happens to a man she will have to pay his debts or if he makes debts during the marriage and in case of divorce she would be responsible for the debts too.That`s reality, deaths and divorces so it makes some feel not well.

[Simoni]

As far as I know the situation women are afraid not the idea men want to use them this way, but of possibility that if something happens to a man she will have to pay his debts or if he makes debts during the marriage and in case of divorce she would be responsible for the debts too.That`s reality, deaths and divorces so it makes some feel not well.

To reassure you Julia, two things:

1)  Men usually have good life insurance in case of their demise (I lost a friend who was married to a foreign girl; he had a big policy and thus left her a million);

2)  Divorce in America usually leaves the wife better off than the husband-- much better off!

That of course can be an incentive for divorce, unfortunately.

[Julia G]

Men usually have good life insurance in case of their demise (I lost a friend who was married to a foreign girl; he had a big policy and thus left her a million);

That cannot compensate for losing the one you love But it`s not this topic, though.