Traveling to Kaluga end of March

[Boethius]

I didn't.  We knew each other very well.  I married my best friend.

Yeah, but you don't know each other, really, until you start living together.  It really is the ebb and flow of life that lets you know who your spouse is.  Reactions to disagreements, to disappointment, to hardship, to illness, to child rearing (that is the true test of marriage).  

[Boethius]

"Civilized" arguing is part of a marriage and it is considered "healthy" by most marriage counselors.

GOB

No, the manner in which you resolve disputes is the indicator of the health of a marriage (and also an indicator of the success of a marriage).


I have been married so long that we no longer argue at all.   The only thing we disagreed on which was significant was disciplining the kids.  He was much stricter than I was.

[Simoni]

Yeah, but you don't know each other, really, until you start living together.  It really is the ebb and flow of life that lets you know who your spouse is.  Reactions to disagreements, to disappointment, to hardship, to illness, to child rearing (that is the true test of marriage).  

We also have different definitions of "stranger."  No need to debate this.

[Boethius]

The point is no one approach is the right one.  Your advice is based on your own experience and paradigm.  Chilli's decision is based on his experiences.

And really, I don't think you can really know someone until something difficult happens.  That usually shows a person's true character.  

  

[Simoni]

1) The point is no one approach is the right one.  
2) Your advice is based on your own experience and paradigm.  
3) Chilli's decision is based on his experiences.
4) I don't think you can really know someone until something difficult happens.  That usually shows a person's true character.  

  

Boethius, you are correct on half of these, from my perspective:

1)  I agree-- there is no one correct approach.  There are example of great couples here where the lady had almost zero English, and they made it.  But the majority here would advise against that, and would agree with me that talking to each other is very important in a marriage.  It really does take years to truly learn a language, so the idea that she will take lessons and all will be well is a questionable one.  But-- I agree.  There is no one right approach.

2)  You are half right here.  I have had both experiences-- a sixth month relationship with a girl who did not speak English, and a one year relationship with a university certified interpreter.  The later part of your statement is correct-- I do have a paradigm that my advice to newbies is generated from.

3) Right here, of course.

4)  Both right and wrong.  Your assumption seems to be that this challenge happens after marriage. If your engagement or relationship is significantly long enough, it can occur before marriage.  For us, the big event that drew us closer together was being attacked, beaten and robbed by a gang of five in a foreign country on one of our trips.  She saw in me strength and determination; I saw in her love and compassion.  We stuck together and came out stronger.

[GoodOlBoy]

The point is no one approach is the right one.

 

Agreed.

And really, I don't think you can really know someone until something difficult happens.  

Please explain to me Boethius how you can "know" somebody, if you cannot even communicate with the person (language barrier)?


GOB

[Boethius]

GOB, my point is, you can't necessarily know someone even if you speak the same language and come from the same culture.

Do you know of any couples who split when one became ill, or lost a job, or based on another thread got fat?  Do you believe those couples thought "Well, I know my spouse.  I know he/she will hit the road the minute the going gets tough."

Some people live together for years and never really know each other.

[Boethius]

4)  Both right and wrong.  Your assumption seems to be that this challenge happens before marriage. If your engagement or relationship is significantly long enough, it can occur before marriage.  For us, the big event that drew us closer together was being attacked, beaten and robbed by a gang of five in a foreign country on one of our trips.  She saw in me strength and determination; I saw in her love and compassion.  We stuck together and came out stronger.

No, my assumption is that this occurs after marriage.  I don't think you can really know someone until you have lived with him/her and faced that challenge.

I am sorry for your experience, and happy that it worked out.   But really, it pales in comparison to experiences where your spouse has to pull him/herself and you for a prolonged period of time.   

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB, my point is, you can't necessarily know someone even if you speak the same language and come from the same culture.

Do you know of any couples who split when one became ill, or lost a job, or based on another thread got fat?  Do you believe those couples thought "Well, I know my spouse.  I know he/she will hit the road the minute the going gets tough."

Some people live together for years and never really know each other.

Ok Boethius, I accept your reasoning (but I don't agree).

While we are on this topic, how do you fit a foreign "child" into this equation?

And please don't brush me off by saying something like (OH, child will be OK don't worry, they "adapt").

It is NOT true...I have seen it first hand here where I live in SIB.

A foreign child brings a whole different dynamics to a AM/RW "family" unit.


GOB

[Boethius]

And this is different from American born children in an American (step)family unit exactly how?

[SANDRO43]

It is NOT true...I have seen it first hand here where I live in SIB.

I have some difficulty in understanding that acronym, Wikipedia gives me way too many alternatives:

SIB can refer to:

As Sib, a town in Oman
Savings and Investment Bank, a failed bank on the Isle of Man
File format (and file extension) for files created with Sibelius.
School of International Business, the business school of the Reutlingen University in Germany
Scientex Incorporated Berhad, the largest producer of stretch films in Asia
Securities and Investments Board, a UK regulator now known as the Financial Services Authority
Self-injurious behavior
Service Implementation Bean, a Java object implementing a web service
Service Integration Bus, supports applications using message-based and service-oriented architectures.
Sibb, a genealogical term.
Sib (horse), played Gondorian and Rohan horses in The Return of the King
Sibling
The Simple Biosphere model used with atmospheric general circulation models
Special Investigation Branch, the detective branches of all four British military police arms.
Stanford International Bank
Strong Island Boys, a late 1980's-early 90's Long Island street gang originating as a skinhead gang.
Student Welfare Organisation in Bergen or Studentsamskipnaden i Bergen
Studentenvereniging voor Internationale Betrekkingen, the acronym in Dutch of the Dutch United Nations Student Association (DUNSA)
Swiss Institute of Bioinformatics, a scientific research institute
sib (anthropology), a group of people recognized by an individual as kin
Scale-Index-Base byte used in x86 instruction encoding
"Somewhere I Belong", a song from Linkin Park's album Meteora

I could add some inventive alternatives, but I'd rather wait for your explanation .

[GoodOlBoy]

I have some difficulty in understanding that acronym, Wikipedia gives me way too many alternatives:

I could add some inventive alternatives, but I'd rather wait for your explanation .

Sorry Sandro43.

SIB (Sunny Isles Beach, FL) is where I live.

From what I understand there is a population of over 60,000 Russian/Ukrainian residents living here.

It is located in North Miami Beach.


GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

And this is different from American born children in an American (step)family unit exactly how?

Well to start off....A Non-English Speaking Foreign Child (FSUC) is coming into the "family unit" to live 24/7 (not once a month or once a week visiting from a divorced spouse).

Unfortunately I have personally witnessed the dynamics of this situation and to be frank with you (as a household guest) it can sometimes become quite "unpleasant" around the household.

GOB

[Chillidog]

I am very happy that I did NOT listen to some of the "Naysayers" about meeting a woman with "limited" English abilities. MY Russian is poor (have been working on it for 3 years but I am one of those that languages does not come easy to).

Olya and I hit it off from the very start (no, I am not refering to physically, refering to things that play an even greater importance in a relationship ---though a healthy sex life in a relationship is also very important). Of course we struggled at times in finding the write word, yet there was always the ability to understand what the other was trying to say, the experts say (and I am not an expert) that even in verbal communication there is also other signals and stimuli being given off that help a person understand what is verbally being spoken (I'll just trust to the experts that this is true).

We have now had about 1 month of "face time" together. We both understand the importance of being able to communicate effectively, and both know that when/if the time comes that she arrives to the USA that we will need a very strong and solid base of communication. So we continue to work on our verbal communication, and both of us have been working hard on improving our knowledge of the others language (but you can see more improvment with Olya than with me)

We are trying to keep this emotional part out of our decision making process. To take our time and not rush, to continue to build and improve our verbal communication skills between us, to continue to help prepare her son with his English skills and also get him emotionally more secure and comfortable with this eventual event of moving to a strange country. But most of all to give our relationship the time to grow and become stronger so that when we are together, it is a life, a love, a relationship that will last our entire lives.

To build in our relationship/love the strength to over come the difficulties we will face and also over come the many things that we each may do or say unintentionaly that may hurt the others feelings. Yes, we have had to work thru a couple of these moments -- it did show the commitment we have to each other, in these very few small moments. (A couple of my "not so finer moments/jokes" that did not come off they way they were intended. That if I had thought before I opened my mouth, I would have kept my mouth shut)

First let me say "Thanks for ALL the posts and for the attention".

I need to at least become a little more specific/informative about "Our" language barrier, I know it will not change anyone's thought process on this subject but it may shed a little more light on my particular situation.

Simoni and Good ole' boy and maybe some others are taking the stance that Olya speaks no English or that all of our communication is non-verbal this is very far from the truth. where in my post (and I've quoted everything in this post that pertaints to my earlier post involving our verbal communication)

Olya definitely knows more than 1 word of English in fact, we talk every saturday and sunday by telephone for up 2 hours and IM for an additional 5-6 hours each weekend we have been doing this even before we met for the first time. I do not want to sound confrontational in this post.

But as you all know it is physically impossible to write everything in a post, nor will I share my private life with what amounts to nothing but strangers. I tried to "Highlight" in our relationship some important facts, of where we are today and on how we are trying to proceed to point "B"

What I attempted to portray in my post maybe I failed to get my point across very well.

IS THIS, Yes, Olya started out with "limited" English (maybe I should have written she is fluent in German and has an  aptitude for languages). She has been working on her English and I feel has progressed very well. BUT I also tried to say that we still KNOW we have much more work to go in this area, AND that we are taking our time (NOT FILING A K1 AS A ONE WEEK WONDER) because we both know and acknowledge that we still have more work ahead of us in our Verbal communication skills. That we will not file until we are confident that we CAN communicate freely.

I thought how we were proceeding would have been appareant from my first post.

Yes, I am VERY HAPPY that I did not listen, BUT I was NOT gloating or sticking my tongue out at anyone, but trying to point out that even though I did not listen, I feel and agree there is MUCH more work ahead of us, and as I wrote we are 100% committed to this and to making this relationship work.

[Simoni]

Yes, I am VERY HAPPY that I did not listen, BUT I was NOT gloating or sticking my tongue out at anyone, but trying to point out that even though I did not listen, I feel and agree there is MUCH more work ahead of us, and as I wrote we are 100% committed to this and to making this relationship work.

Warmest wishes from Marina and me to you guys, and congrats!

[Chillidog]

I would also ask that before people "start jumping to conclusions" that you pose some questions to me first and hopefully I can clarify points that may not be "Kosher" in your world

one other note

Simoni, if it was your intent to stress to "newbies" the difficulties and additional problems there is with pursueing a lady who "has no English" then I agree completely with you. I did not write what I did as to DISPUTE this claim

 

[Simoni]

Simoni, if it was your intent to stress to "newbies" the difficulties and additional problems there is with pursueing a lady who "has no English" then I agree completely with you. I did not write what I did as to DISPUTE this claim

Chilli, my concern was with the "Naysayers" comment.  I wrongly perceived it as your saying that the advice to look for ladies who speak English was wrong advice. 

Your statement here seems clear; you love your girl and are glad you went against the advice in this case.  But you also add that it does present additional problems and difficulties.  I think newbies can decide for themselves.

In the abstract it is good advice to look at girls who speak English.  But when you find someone that does not, and you like her, that is a different matter.

[Faux Pas]

  Your statement here seems clear; you love your girl and are glad you went against the advice in this case.  But you also add that it does present additional problems and difficulties.  I think newbies can decide for themselves.

Exactly.

I'm not speaking for Chili, rather just my observation but I believe he is referring to the "general advice" that I or you Simoni, would have given to him or anyone who posed such a question. I don't believe it is one of the 10 commandments but probably should be.

Chili has quite a bit experience where a newbie does not. He had a good idea what the terrain would be without a clear common language and is working through it.

I'd like to see Chili succeed as I am sure you do. He is feeling and celebrating success and should be. Perhaps there is a lesson here for the future, for those of us who pretend or like to think we know everything. We're all still capable of learning 

[GoodOlBoy]

Sorry Chillidog.

I misread your post.

Best of luck to you in the future and please keep us posted.


GOB

[Chillidog]

In retrospect, I could have phrased it better or found a different word to use other than "naysayers"

so I do/did not take any offence from you or others. and it is because I also realized after reading the posts, that I did not to clarify some items.

I know it will be hard for some to understand because neither of us is Fluent (yet) in the others language, but thru all avenues of communication and this does include dverbal we have discussed almost every subject possible under the sun.

quantium physics was a little hard to discuss

but in all honesty I do not feel I have connected and communicated this good with anyone including my ex-wife (maybe why she is my ex ?) If I did not feel a sincere connection with her I would have never travelled the first time and would have continued to look for someone who was already adapt at communcating in English.

maybe there is some truth to the saying "if it is right you will know it"

Yes, we are not married and it could all go south tomorrow! but that could be said about any relationship. All I can do is stress our strengths and work on our weakness, live for today and cherish for now and hopefully forever the wonderful beautiful woman who is in my life

[Chillidog]

Sorry Chillidog.

I misread your post.

Best of luck to you in the future and please keep us posted.


GOB

no harm no foul. you and others did/wrote what you feel is correct. Or maybe better to speak about the "path of least resistance".

I thought I found my pot-o-gold at the end of 2005, it fell apart after 1 year. It has taken me to this point in time to find something I think is truly special. It has been a long road, a few hopes dashed (failed meetings) to bring me to the point I am at today. The "path of least resistance" would have been welcomed anywhere along this journey

maybe all the work and time to get here has me got me feeling a little "appreciative" of what I now have, and wanting to share with the rest a little of my happiness.

It certainly was not gloating on my part and I am sorry to those who interpreted it that way 

[Simoni]

All is well now.  Good luck to you, Chilli.

[Makkin]

   Hope it all works out for you and everything is what you hope for.

   Best Wishes,

    Makkin

[Boethius]

Best of luck Chilli.

Well to start off....A Non-English Speaking Foreign Child (FSUC) is coming into the "family unit" to live 24/7 (not once a month or once a week visiting from a divorced spouse).

Unfortunately I have personally witnessed the dynamics of this situation and to be frank with you (as a household guest) it can sometimes become quite "unpleasant" around the household. GOB

What does this say about American families, when the child of a divorced spouse is tossed back and forth like a football?

Any unpleasantness is the direct fault of the adults in the situation. 

[Chillidog]

Passport sent off yesterday to get my "Visa Stamp". Not as big a "World Traveller" as many/some are on the board but after this stamp I will be able to take 1 more trip (stamp) and then will be needing to add pages to my passport.

Purchased flights for my trip today. This time will be flying non-stop from ORD (O'hare) to DME (Domodevedo) with American Airlines. In past trips the non-stop American flights have always been $100-200 more then the flights I found with various arilines that had 1 stop.

This time using this site http://www.cinderellatravel.com/airtickets_cheap.php (I myself did not know of this site before, so this is the 1st time I have used it to book airfare) I found the "non-stop" American flight to be only $6 more more on this site then the 1-stop flights.

also on this site I found the airfare to be $100 or more less expensive then I found on the various discount travel sites or the official airlines sites. So I would recommend everyone to check this site out before booking airfare. They offer other services such as "Full service Visa" but I have not used these other services so cannot comment on them.

For this trip will be arriving in Russia on August 4th and we will spend the whole month of August together, I will be departing Russia on August 31st. Only 3 more weeks and though it will only be a total wait time between meetings of 5 weeks but I still can't wait to be together again!

This trip will give me a small taste of what it will be like for the women who come to our countries, Olya will during this trip have to do the 9-5 work thing and depending on the weather conditions (if it is good weather and not cold or storming) Olya's mother and Igor will be at the Dacha (we will visit them at the Dacha on the weekends) so I will be left alone in Olya's apartment to fend for myself while she is at work.