St.Pete's Trip Report Jan 2009

[Vinnvinny]

Sandro & GOB: At which age do you allow your daughters to make their own decisions regarding who they date? 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26?

[Daveman]

This meandering thread has become interesting to say the least.

I really don't get the fascination with the 20 somethings. Of course I don't mind gazing upon the flesh, but just not my cup of tea relationship wise. However, if that's what a man wants to find he can definitely find and catch one.  It'll probably take some time and perhaps many failed attempts, but of course it's possible (there OR here).  I sometimes get some lucky attention from the younger crowd here but aside from being a momentary stroke of the ego, I can't see anything of substance there for more long term than a couple days of rollicking in the hay at best, but for a life partner? Upper 20's maybe, but still a bit young for my own taste. 

Probably much easier to actually catch one if she has a child at a young age.  

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB, I understand you point  ("Be sure that if some 40 something year old clown came "sniffing" around my daughter when she was 20..."), and also share it.

MY point, however, is that it seems hardly applicable to the two cases I mentioned. IMO, you see evil intentions where none probably were.

Sandro43, if the OP doesn't want the visceral reaction (disgust) he receives from somebody like myself, then why does he post such exploits (40 something year old man, partying with "hung over" schoolgirls)?

IMO....Somethings are better left unsaid.


GOB

[Faux Pas]

Sandro43, if the OP doesn't want the visceral reaction (disgust) he receives from somebody like myself, then why does he post such exploits (40 something year old man, partying with "hung over" schoolgirls)?

IMO....Somethings are better left unsaid.


GOB

GOB

40, 50, or 60 somethings chasing after 20 year old girls is nothing new throughout the annuls of history. You've made your preference known so why keep hammering on this? I think most of us get it, you think it is disgusting. Everybody don't share your narrow view. That doesn't make their or your position correct, just indifferent. Would you feel better about it if he was 50 and she was 30?

[GoodOlBoy]

Sandro & GOB: At which age do you allow your daughters to make their own decisions regarding who they date? 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26?

Hello Vinnvinny.

My daughter went on her first date when she was 16 years old.

Maybe she dated before that, I don't know and I really don't want to know.

In America, a 40 something year old man is not looking for a "date" with a 20 year old girl. He is looking for something "else".  :evil:

What a Father doesn't know about his adult daughters (18 years old) personal (intimate) life is probably just as well.  

But a 40 something year old man posting his exploits with 20 year old schoolgirls on the internet is lascivious, crass and tawdry.

And should not be encouraged.


GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB

40, 50, or 60 somethings chasing after 20 year old girls is nothing new throughout the annuls of history. You've made your preference known so why keep hammering on this? I think most of us get it, you think it is disgusting. Everybody don't share your narrow view. That doesn't make their or your position correct, just indifferent. Would you feel better about it if he was 50 and she was 30?

Hello Faux Pas

Although I would never "feel" comfortable with that age difference, I have no problem with a TR discussing that type of age disparity (between two "older" adults 50 and 30).

There is a whole world of difference between a 30 year old WOMAN and a 20 year old SCHOOLGIRL.

I don't know if you have a daughter.

If and when you do have one, you may understand what I am saying.


GOB

[kievstar]

Two days ago I had a meeting with my parents near airport (flying to Europe) and for some reason we talked about age difference and marriages.  My father told me about my 6th or 7th great grandfather.  When he was 69 years old her married a 23 year old girl and had 3 children.  Lived another 17 years happily ever after with this lady.  Prior to this he had 10 children with his previous wife.  He was born 1800 or 1801 - I forget.  So big age difference can be successful.  Father is really into family tree and goes back more than 700 years on some branches. 

[Simoni]

Likewise, my grandfather had 8 children with his wife.  They were both 50 when she died.   He married a neighbor girl who he had hired to cook for the family.  She was 22.  They had 6 more children together, one of whom was my mother.  That is one 50 year old guy marrying a 22 year old that I am glad occurred, or else I would not be here!   He was French, BTW 

[ambach123]

James Woods is not the only one, big age difference is a part of Americana; someone must have just dropped in from Mars not to know that or must be living under a rock.

Actually this has been around for thousands of years.

The old axiom " Money and experience buys youth and beauty" is as true today as it was two thousands years ago.

Notwithstanding the above medical research has shown that those who marry younger women add seven years to their lives.

Way to go DaveyJ.

[GoodOlBoy]

Two days ago I had a meeting with my parents near airport (flying to Europe) and for some reason we talked about age difference and marriages.  My father told me about my 6th or 7th great grandfather.  When he was 69 years old her married a 23 year old girl and had 3 children.  Lived another 17 years happily ever after with this lady.  Prior to this he had 10 children with his previous wife.  He was born 1800 or 1801 - I forget.  So big age difference can be successful.  Father is really into family tree and goes back more than 700 years on some branches. 

Hello Kievstar.

I like your posts, they have some very good information and I have learned a lot from reading them.

I think maybe you missed my point and I know it is "my" point (not shared by others).

I think any endeavor in this world can be successful no matter what the barriers are.

Hats off to your Great Grandfather. I mean it.

But for me, personally, I just find it morally repugnant when 40 year old men chase around 20 year old girls.

After looking at this TR thread and listening to everybody here, I have decided not to disrupt anymore TR threads with my "narrow views" concerning this matter (age difference).

The forum members are correct. It is to disruptive to the process.

When I see a particular thread going in this age direction (40/20 or worse), I promise the member's that I will just move on and leave my thoughts to myself.

OK?


GOB

[SANDRO43]

Sandro & GOB: At which age do you allow your daughters to make their own decisions regarding who they date? 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26?

Vinny, a purely theoretical question, as was my previous answer agreeing with GOB, since I don't have any .

[Faux Pas]

Hello Faux Pas

Although I would never "feel" comfortable with that age difference, I have no problem with a TR discussing that type of age disparity (between two "older" adults 50 and 30).

There is a whole world of difference between a 30 year old WOMAN and a 20 year old SCHOOLGIRL.

I don't know if you have a daughter.

If and when you do have one, you may understand what I am saying.


GOB

Actually, I do have a daughter, 21 and attending college. She has turned out to be a very fine woman and young adult. I also raised two other girls into adulthood  which were not mine. They had fathers but lived in my household. I know of what you speak. At 20 years old the raising is already over with. If the girl/lady wishes to date or marry an older man it is their choice. GOB, I tend to think you are embellishing the situation harping on the "school girl mantra". I don't see a man, no matter his age looking for a 20 year old as disgusting. It is a preference. Now if that girl is 16-17  or younger then yes, that is disgusting and also illegal. FWIW Personally, I prefer my lady closer to my age. That is just my preference.

[kievstar]

GOB, I have to agree girls less than 25 years old in the most cases in Ukraine are not mature enough for marriage let alone a marriage with a man 40 years or older.  I never chased girls under 25 in Ukraine for marriage or serious relationship (preferred girls within 10 years of me as I am 37 years old).

My mother was worried about me marrying in Kharkov next month as I am 10 years, 3 months and 15 days older than my fiance.  She thought it was to much.  That is when my father threw out about 10 examples of current and deceased family members a lot greater in age difference who had great marriages and he knew of none who had issues.  My father than talked about his "bimbo pension" he gets currently which means if my mother dies and he marries an 18 year and than my father dies.  This  18 year old girl will get a $350,000 usd pension adjusted for inflation (never deflation) until she dies.  This type of pension was popular for CEO's back in the early 1990's for Texas companies and is named bimbo pension.  Was designed for their mistress and was based on wife dying first. 

Little side tracked but it is pouring rain here in Brussels and do not want to walk home in it. 

[SANDRO43]

it is pouring rain here in Brussels

Doesn't it always, with a joyful reminder should it cease for a few minutes ?

[Vinnvinny]

GOB, I have to agree girls less than 25 years old in the most cases in Ukraine are not mature enough for marriage let alone a marriage with a man 40 years or older. 

I dont think too many girls less than 25 years old anywhere are ready for marriage.

My mother was worried about me marrying in Kharkov next month as I am 10 years, 3 months and 15 days older than my fiance.  She thought it was to much. 

I am 23 years, 7 months and 17 days older than my fiance so I'm rather pleased I have a different mother. 

P.s. Useful 'tool' for 'dirty old men'. http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

[Simoni]

When I see a particular thread going in this age direction (40/20 or worse), I promise the member's that I will just move on and leave my thoughts to myself.

GOB-- once again you default to a 20 year old girl.  I think you have been called on that half a dozen times by multiple posters.  When you stop building this strawman and start saying girls in their 20s, then we won't have to call you on this...

[OlgaH]

Doesn't it always, with a joyful reminder should it cease for a few minutes ?

 

[SANDRO43]

I didn't know Manneken had a sister, les Brusselloises seem quite fixated on falling water. But who can blame them, the poor sodden blokes, I don't remember who labelled their city Europe's pissoir .

[ScottinCrimea]

I just came onto this post, so I'm not involved in the squabbles.  Looking at things overall, I have some observations.

I've noticed the focus on the <30 idea with some interpreting this as 20 years old and condemning this, given the OP is 41.  As I read what information we have been given, the actual age of the women he was dating was <25.  The fact that he doesn't try to clarify this by actually stating their ages also suggest that this is the case.  Any time we have someone who avoids stating the ages, it is pretty easy to see that they don't want to do so because it will validate the arguments of others.

In every case, he was not a high priority with these women.  Given the option to see him or do something else, they chose to do something else.  This can have a number of reasons, certainly one of which is related to his age, but maybe more important is that he didn't seem to place any of them high on his priority list and I'm certain that they sensed that.  Why should they drop everything to spend time with him when they know that they have been scheduled for the third or fourth day of his visit because other options have a higher priority?  Every woman wants to feel that they are the first priority for a man and if they are shown something different they don't see the man as being serious about them at all.

The other observation relates to his reasons for choosing St. Petersburg.  He wants a woman who enjoys the arts and lives in a city where there is more opportunity to experience it.  Wouldn't he do better in a smaller town where a woman enjoys the arts, appreciates the culture, has visited Peter or Moscow but hasn't had the ability to live there and would love the opportunity to move somewhere like Toronto where there are more cultural opportunities?
     Why would a woman with artistic interests want to move to Toronto when she already has everything necessary to satisfy her passion right at home?

[Gator]

Again, if you want an artist, how is being from St. Petersburg a fulfillment of that wish?

Daveyj did not disclose many details.  I assume he was meeting RW who not only were from St. Piter but also somehow involved in art.  Because he did not specify, one can assume almost anything, such as he dated 20-yo dyevs or dated only those in their upper 20s. 

So maybe the fault here is assuming too much regarding someone who no longer gives a rat's ass about RW.  All I know is he spent 9 days in St. Piter and not one RW was seriously interested in him.  Over half broke dates, none of which was for something important.  Ouch!

 

Given our past exchanges, Gator, I am not surprised. Nonetheless, I judge people based on actions and achievements, not the place they where they happen to be born.

Listen carefully. I judge people the same as you. 

However, that is not what you said originally.  You said:

To believe otherwise is to believe that some humans are somehow born genetically superior.

Our parents’ gene pool may be large, yet what we are when born is not a totally random event.  Intelligence is substantially heritable. 

I assume you did not mean what you said originally, or at least how I interpreted it.  Frankly, I don’t care given how this thread has deteriorated.

[Vinnvinny]

In every case, he was not a high priority with these women.  Given the option to see him or do something else, they chose to do something else.  This can have a number of reasons, certainly one of which is related to his age, but maybe more important is that he didn't seem to place any of them high on his priority list and I'm certain that they sensed that. 

Good post Scott except if don’t think it’s necessarily De facto that a 25 year old woman would chose to do something else just because the man pursuing her was 41. Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp are both 45 and I figure most 25 year olds would fit them into their schedule, sooner rather than later. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Good post Scott except if don’t think it’s necessarily De facto that a 25 year old woman would chose to do something else just because the man pursuing her was 41. Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp are both 45 and I figure most 25 year olds would fit them into their schedule, sooner rather than later. 

I didn't state this as being in any way de facto.  Assuming, however, that the OP has neither the money nor the looks of Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp, I do think it has to be a consideration.

[Sculpto]

Lots of stuff in this thread worth writing about.  Apologies in advance for what will be a long post.

Davyj.. I totally understand your priorities in finding someone interested in the arts and the urban lifestyle.  That has been a big part of my challenge also.  Being in the art world is not for everyone, maybe even not for most, so, it requires finding a certain type of lady who will not only appreciate and understand but will also support and maybe even forgive the excesses that WE as Artist Men, might indulge in often. 

As to why your search yielded such minimal results... I have to agree that these ladies did not feel important enough.  I am sure they felt as an afterthought and were not motivated because of this.  Some might have even been insulted.  Playing the field is fine, but, I think you revealed too much by telling anyone you were looking for a wife.  Perhaps it could be viewed as being deceptive, but, each of those ladies should have been made to feel that she was VERY important to you before you arrived in Piter to meet them.  You are an artist visiting an art city.. that should have been your "main reason" for being there and meeting with some nice "friends" that you had arranged in advance would have left you with more mystery and intrigue which would have offset the fact that you were not as available as they might have wished you to be.  Ladies want to be "wooed" and creating a mystique, especially that of an artist, could be your ace in the hole if you play it right.   

There has been a lot of discussion in this thread about whether a lady from St. Piter would move to Toronto, or anywhere else.  If she loves the man she will go wherever he is.  It is that simple.  It doesn't matter if she has options in St. Piter or not.  Equally it doesn't matter if she is from Piter or Pskov.. if she loves the man she will make the sacrifice (it isn't a sacrifice if it is true love) of moving to be with him.

I find GOBs comments about age difference really insulting.  Who the heck do you think you are?  Get over yourself man, you have absolutely no right to make such judgements about anyone, especially in the terms you used.  Mind your own business.  If two people find love with each other, and they happen to be a generation apart, WHO CARES?  It is their life to live, not yours. 

How do you say STFU in Russian?

Every person on this planet is different and every single one of those people will match up with whoever fits their needs, biological, material, intellectual, emotional or otherwise. 

I have a friend in Mexico who was the most succesfull man I have ever met in terms of hooking up with women.  This man is also by far the most hideous appearing man I have ever known.  He had "pizza face" all over his body.  He was not in great shape.  His hair stood up in a funny way.  He had little money and his clothes showed it.  But... he had something that women found irresistable, incredibly beautiful women, usually 10-15 years younger than him.  He had the ability to listen to them, understand what they wanted/needed, and the personal character to deliver exactly what it was they wanted. 

I bring this up for the Ambachs and GOBs who think age, looks and money are the primary motivators for women.  Maybe for some that is the case, but, far from all.  Women want to be appreciated, needed, desired and respected and a man, with nothing but his charm, can be quite succesfull in finding a woman much out of his league in superficial terms if he understands those dynamics.  Besides, in my case, and I am guessing in Davyj's also, a woman who is motivated by the superficial would just never cut it for me.

Ok, go ahead and throw rocks at me now.. I have my shield up.

Oh and finally, Davyj, don't give up!  Re-evaluate your approach, recuperate your bearings, immerse yourself in that which makes you succesfull in life and play that up with the ladies and give it another go.

[Daveman]

There has been a lot of discussion in this thread about whether a lady from St. Piter would move to Toronto, or anywhere else.  If she loves the man she will go wherever he is.  It is that simple.  It doesn't matter if she has options in St. Piter or not.  Equally it doesn't matter if she is from Piter or Pskov.. if she loves the man she will make the sacrifice (it isn't a sacrifice if it is true love) of moving to be with him.

So what does the man do if the woman makes the sacrifice to come to him, and then discovers that she is happy with him, but not happy with her surroundings?  Should he tell her to simply deal with it? Should he anticipate this possibility and also be willing to relocate together to a different environment more suited to both? 

What would you do in this hypothetical situation?

[Misha]

If two people find love with each other, and they happen to be a generation apart, WHO CARES? 

Well, the fact of the matter is that Dave did not find love. How does that song go: "looking for love in all the wrong places..."