Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

[GoodOlBoy]

When you going to get a decent lawn mower GOB? 

As soon as I can get the bank to "refinance" me!   

Then I am going to get me one of those "John Deere's" (with a "beverage" holder). 


GOB

[2tallbill]

1. In a market where the value of the object has decreased by 50% the 20% downpayment is no longr guarantee to recover the loan.
2. Credit history is usually based on small amounts. If a persone never needed credit, there is no history which might actually be preferred.
3. Employment where ? GM ? A bank ? For self-emplyed people the bar goes up to 10 years.
4. Lived all his life in a trailer park is stable...
5. As soon as the job is lost, payment and income will be out of line.

The values you show are great in times of a sure and stable market. At this time you will find that people are much more nervous...

The values I listed make sense in any market. Having a 20% down payment is
always better than having none. A record of steady employment / income are
better than having none etc, etc.

It was crazy for the government to force lending institutions to give credit to
people who had none of those criteria.

BUT
That wasn't my point anyway. My I was defending the free
market / free enterprise system, when a previous poster claimed that
my capitalist system didn't work and that the current financial mess is
the proof.

My point is that free markets and free enterprise, with a few protections
is the best system that has yet been devised, and that the Socialist Soviet
style system has never worked well, and has always failed. It wasn't the
huge defense spending that wrecked the socialist / Soviet system, it did
however quicken the demise.



 

[kryten41]

Re Russian cars:  http://videos.streetfire.net/video/190-Top-Gear-Communist_205207.htm

[OlgaH]

'Proletarians of all countries, unite'

[Shadow]

Re Russian cars:  http://videos.streetfire.net/video/190-Top-Gear-Communist_205207.htm

How about this one...
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vwZxvlruRk[/youtube]

[Mir]

The financial crisis explained in simple terms

Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Berlin. In order to increase sales,
she decides to allow her loyal customers - most of whom are unemployed
alcoholics - to drink now but pay later. She keeps track of the drinks
consumed on a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans). Word gets
around and as a result increasing numbers of customers flood into
Heidi's bar. Taking advantage of her customers' freedom from immediate
payment constraints, Heidi increases her prices for wine and beer, the
most-consumed beverages. Her sales volume increases massively. A young
and dynamic customer service consultant at the local bank recognizes
these customer debts as valuable future assets and increases Heidi's
borrowing limit. He sees no reason for undue concern since she has the
debts of the alcoholics as collateral.

At the bank's corporate headquarters, expert bankers transform these
customer assets into DRINKBONDS, ALKBONDS and PUKEBONDS.

            These securities are then traded on markets worldwide. No one really
            understands what these abbreviations mean and how the securities are
            guaranteed. Nevertheless, as their prices continuously climb, the
            securities become top-selling items.
 
One day, although the prices are still climbing, a risk manager (subsequently
of course fired due to his negativity) of the bank decides that slowly the time has
come to demand payment of the debts incurred by the drinkers at Heidi's bar.
 
However they cannot pay back the debts. Heidi cannot fulfill her loan
obligations and claims bankruptcy.

            DRINKBOND and ALKBOND drop in price by 95 %. PUKEBOND performs
            better, stabilizing in price after dropping by 80 %. The suppliers of Heidi's bar,
            having granted her generous payment due dates and having invested in the
            securities are faced with a new situation. Her wine supplier claims bankruptcy,
            her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor.
 
The bank is saved by the Government following dramatic
round-the-clock consultations by leaders from the governing political parties.
 
The funds required for this purpose are obtained by a tax levied on the
            non-drinkers.

            . . . Finally, an explanation I understand . .

[Mishenka]

The EASY FAST WAY to fix the economy in USA would have been to let the banks fail and give the bail out money directly to each legal citizen working tax payer. (only those paying taxes in deserve a bailout check)  We would all be enjoying a nice healthy economy with cash flowing freely through everyones' hands, no forclosures, no stores closing or going into Bankruptcy etc.  Obama is spending this country into certain death. It is clear that there will be no recovery as long as Obama and Nancy Pelousi are watching the store.  Still this is the best place on the planet to live during hard times. People voted and will reap what we sow, or in this case suffer with the poor decisions we made. We voted for the car salesman we believed in. We got the lemon, now we have to deal with the consequences. The joke is on us this time for sure. The whole world would be laughing at us if they weren't so angry to the core. The world Banks taught the world it's OK to lie, cheat and steal and get away with it. They not only got to keep the homes they repossessed, they got paid for with the bail out money and stayed in business after they defrauded all of us. The banks will still fail. When the people finally get pissed off and revolt, bank buildings will be burning from Wall Street in NYC to LA, California. The banks had an "exit strategy" from the beginning of this whole mess. They knew exactly what was going on and the result of it. It was only a matter of time before the disaster would happen.

[Shadow]

Most of the assets of banks are state bonds. If they allow the banks to go in to bankrupcy, the state would have to pay these bonds and go bankrupt as well. By taking a 'loan' from the taxpayers, both banks and state can continue.

Economy is simple in the bar, but not as simple for those actually in charge of it.

[Diplomacy]

I would suggest all Americans think long and hard about "We the people".  We the people voted in Obama, as you said.  He is doing some of what got him elected, for better or worse.

We the people, bought the homes we could not afford.  We the people, decided to not listen to our grandparents.  Buy things on credit, instead of saving up to buy it with cash.

We the people, decided to change the society into what it is today.  None of this would have happened, if we the people did not buy. 

We the people, must change our ways first.  We the people, must hold our politicians accountable.

This is a bottom up country, we the people need to get our act together.  Really, most of the blame is on us.  Whether we did any of this or not, we can fix this.

America is a fluid and ever changing, Lady of Liberty.  Maybe they should turn the Statue of Liberty around, and we can fix our own poor, huddled masses.

We have allowed generation after generation handouts.  It was just easier to do that, then fix the real issues.  If anyone wants to tell me, that the inner city offers the same education and chances as the burbs.

I am all ears

[Mishenka]

Good point diplomacy, well taken.  Most of "we the people" are so busy taking care of our daily lives working to support our families that we can't see past payday. We have many problems to solve. Throwing ungodly amounts of money at them won't solve them.  We the people must solve them, as you say, from the ground up. That's life.

[SANDRO43]

Sounds like a cultural (r)evolution. How about some re-education camps like they had in China back in the late 1960s, the first batch of inmates consisting of most financial-institution managers and the whole of Wall Street ?

Some extra space may be available in Gitmo in the future .

[acrzybear]

I would suggest all Americans think long and hard about "We the people".  We the people voted in Obama, as you said.  He is doing some of what got him elected, for better or worse.

We the people, bought the homes we could not afford.  We the people, decided to not listen to our grandparents.  Buy things on credit, instead of saving up to buy it with cash.

We the people, decided to change the society into what it is today.  None of this would have happened, if we the people did not buy. 

We the people, must change our ways first.  We the people, must hold our politicians accountable.

This is a bottom up country, we the people need to get our act together.  Really, most of the blame is on us.  Whether we did any of this or not, we can fix this.

America is a fluid and ever changing, Lady of Liberty.  Maybe they should turn the Statue of Liberty around, and we can fix our own poor, huddled masses.

We have allowed generation after generation handouts.  It was just easier to do that, then fix the real issues.  If anyone wants to tell me, that the inner city offers the same education and chances as the burbs.

I am all ears

 Part of the problem I have observed from my level of governmental service is that the government (politicians) find it easier to cater to the minorities.  I know some of the highly educated liberals will label me as a governmental knuckle dragging jack booted nazi thug for this statement, but I am stating things as I see them.

 The problem is several fold, the government finds it easier to throw money at feel good programs to make everyone feel all warm a fuzzy about how they are helping the poor (insert you choice of race here) instead of educating the people about things.  Instead of making sure people are getting educated and learning the basics, the education system lowers the standards so it is easier to graduate and therefore they keep their funding and the kids graduate with a diploma that they can't read.

 The high school graduate then manages to go to college (usually with some type of scholarship) and the school feels better about how they helped the poor underprivileged person get a degree and they get government funding for it.  Now this college graduate has his/her  BA/BS degree and they enter the workplace where their shortcomings are obvious, but if the company does not hire them,  then it does not meet the quota for hiring "minorities" and suffers a public relations problem of being racist.  Since it is cheaper, the company hires the person and and promotes them, because after a few years it will be an issue that the company has no "minorities" in management positions.

The same thing occurs with housing loans, the government allows looser guidelines so more people will buy houses (which they can't afford) and the economy grows, well eventually you have to pay the things you purchased. 

 I am a firm believer in maintaining a certain standard and giving people the means/tools to educate themselves so they can meet or exceed the standard.  If someone wants something bad enough they will educate themselves about it, if you keep giving free handouts (such as a stimulus package)  people will want/expect more and more.

  The United States has become pu$$ified over the years, the once great nation used to roll up it's sleeves and accomplish the most amazing things through hard work and sweat.  Now it's all about covering your a$$, political correctness, not offending anyone and profits, The great American dream is a thing of the past and is turning into a nightmare.

  It just pi$$es me off that this once great country is now a shadow of it's former character.  I have the upmost respect for the The WW II generation, they rolled up their sleeves, did what they needed to do and then after the war they returned to their jobs, provided for and raised their families-they did not expect handouts nor did they cry about how everything is owed to them.





   

[Shadow]

Bear I know where you are coming from. There has just been a row here as one of the provinces needed a new police chief. The guy who was recommended was initially rejected as he was a white male, and the minister was 'aiming for a female or a minority'.
After this became a public scandal, he was appointed as the 'most qualified candidate', but it was mentioned that among the chiefs a larger part should come from the minorities or females.

Being against discrimination of any kind (positive or negative) I feel that for any job they should take the best candidate, no matter the gender or race. Even if it is a white male.

[acrzybear]

Being against discrimination of any kind (positive or negative) I feel that for any job they should take the best candidate, no matter the gender or race. Even if it is a white male.

My thoughts exactly-the best person should get the job!!

[Diplomacy]

Officer Bear:

We see it the same way and I agree with everything.  I am just doing my part, to get it back to the way it once was.  I wanted something, I busted my butt to get it. 

I am not angry, just hope that we change as a collective.  I am sure, I can be angry at any point.  America has had many dark chapters, worse than anything we are seeing now.  We learned some valuable lessons, and were better for changing many things.

I guess I have hope, but it does test ones patience.

[acrzybear]

Things will have to get a lot darker in the United States before the ME generation does anything about it.  The problem with the folks that have been born within the last 20 years is they want instant gratification.  They have no idea of working towards a goal and the satisfaction you get upon completing that goal, they are so used to their video games and instant results.  That is part of the problem with credit-they feel they are entitled to it and they think of it as an extension of their salary.

  Another problem is this folks do not communicate, they talk at each other and not to each other.

[Diplomacy]

I would actually move that age to at least to the age of 34.  That was what happened, to the me generation.  Some of it was the latch key situation, there are now many 35 and under adults, that had to find motivation and sense of purpose within themselves.  I can only comment on 35, and below because I am almost 35.

By the time many parents got home from work, prepared some sort of dinner, took care of the house some, and a myriad of other reasons.  They were exhausted, and many parents did not instill any of the traits you speak of into the me generation.

Children got out of school by 3, and the afternoon special was the mentor.  Did or did not do their homework.  Made themselves a snack, and then went on to play video games.  Their parents were home by 7pm in most cases, and the children were in bed by 9pm.

This mess was made over decades by now, and it will take that long to fix.  It will only be fixed, if the majority cares to do it.  At the point of the majority actually starting to change it, that is when the timer starts.