Statistical abberation

[ECOCKS]

Possibly, but really, I have to take issue with those that are portraying Ken as the good guy martyr dishing out his altruistic "tough love" and everyone that has something to say to the contrary are "back biters". Seriously, what a joke.

But I guess that Ken is a big boy now and can take it as well as dish it out. His sympathy inducing comment about his current situation is stretching it a little though as he keeps on stressing that it was 8 or 9 months ago that they split very amicably and that life is just hunky dory now and "better than ever".

Whatever, I'm just classless I guess. 

I see a distinction in Ken's reaping what he sowed versus hashing out IN HIS THREAD the overall atmosphere of the forum. All I am saying is we need to shift off this thread with the discussion concerning attitudes, hostility and personal attacks. We should NOT be having general discussions in his marital thread. If you want to take him to task for his previous tone of voice, demeanor or arrogant comments do so, but don't drag the board and Dan into it.

[Mishenka]

I agree with you Ed, and will take it another step. There is no reason to start another Ken bashing thread for the young lions to roar. Anyone who has a problem with Ken are free take it up with him privately.  I take most of Ken's posts to me with a grain of salt. He is much nicer in person. I can see Through the BS and still respect him for who he is rather than judge him by a few misguided post towards me.   

The tone of this place needs to change. It has become a place more members avoid rather than meet for a good discussion. RWD's reputation has become stained with venomous attitudes of discord rather than the harmony it was meant to be. Working 12 hour days most of the week I don't have much time to read or post anymore. What little time I do have, I spend with Galina. Lately we miss each other a lot so I come in here to feel connected by reading up on members and their wives or GF etc.  Sad to hear of the many breakups, I even question if I want to continue in the one I am in. Seeing how 80% of the RW to WM marriages fail and 50 % of fiancee visa's result in failure as well, it makes one sober. It would be really nice if we could read about some successful marriages for a change.

Mishenka

[ECOCKS]

I suggest getting this thread back on topic regardng Ken's marital breakup and discussing the tone of the board over in the ANYTHING GOES section wher ethe poll was started a couple of days ago.

[acrzybear]

Ken C

So now that it has been several months since the divorce, do you still talk or associate with Lena?  Or did you just make a clean break and move on?

[Mishenka]

I think all the questions have been answered. anyone up for chat?

[SANDRO43]

Anybody care to join Mishenka and me in the Chat Room?

[Turboguy]

I don't read RWD quite as much as I used to since I am busy leading a happy married life and don't have the time I had when I was sitting around waiting for a visa approval that never seemed to happen.

I have been here almost from the beginning.  I don't think it has changed much.  I can think back to my early days here with Photoguy, Anono, Miss Sensuality and others.  There may have been periods where it was calmer but we are on opinionated lot and it comes out.   I have always been an opponent of the clue bat, tough love way of educating people and never hesitated to say so.  

In Ken's opening post he said something like "Let the bashing begin" that may not be an exact quote but the ideas is the same.  Ken has a lot of knowledge and perhaps it is his Russian bloodline but he doesn't hesitate to tell someone he perceives to be an idiot what he thinks of him.   When you do that you are bound to ruffle some feathers.  I am sure Ken expected some of what has followed.  I never cared much for someone who could dish it out but couldn't take it and Ken is a man and can take it so he has conducted himself well here and as long as he has been a member he has tried to help people and can be proud of that.  Still, after all these years of telling a few who were heading for problems the real truth of the matter to me what we are seeing is only to be expected.

The truth is Ken married Lena and had a lot of good, happy years.  Perhaps Jaded is right that had Ken married someone 10 years younger and someone else came on RWD with the same story he is telling now it is possible Ken may have been the most critical of anyone, and maybe not.  Still, Ken has been through a lot and I firmly belive that if you dislike someone or have a grudge against them you should keep it on the shelf,  When a man is down is no time to attack him.  It doesn't show much character at all.  

[Admin]

I agree with you Ed, and will take it another step. There is no reason to start another Ken bashing thread for the young lions to roar. Anyone who has a problem with Ken are free take it up with him privately.  I take most of Ken's posts to me with a grain of salt. He is much nicer in person. I can see Through the BS and still respect him for who he is rather than judge him by a few misguided post towards me.   

The tone of this place needs to change. It has become a place more members avoid rather than meet for a good discussion. RWD's reputation has become stained with venomous attitudes of discord rather than the harmony it was meant to be. Working 12 hour days most of the week I don't have much time to read or post anymore. What little time I do have, I spend with Galina. Lately we miss each other a lot so I come in here to feel connected by reading up on members and their wives or GF etc.  Sad to hear of the many breakups, I even question if I want to continue in the one I am in. Seeing how 80% of the RW to WM marriages fail and 50 % of fiancee visa's result in failure as well, it makes one sober. It would be really nice if we could read about some successful marriages for a change.

Mishenka

>>Seeing how 80% of the RW to WM marriages fail<<

I presume you are speaking 'off-the-cuff' - as that statistic is FAR from the truth.

- Dan

[KenC]

Ken C

So now that it has been several months since the divorce, do you still talk or associate with Lena?  Or did you just make a clean break and move on?

We tried to maintain a relationship for a long while, but in the end, it became too confusing for the both of us.  It seemed that being together sparked old flames (for both sides) but not enough to overcome the decision to divorce.  I finally had enough of the emotional roller coaster and pushed away.  It was time for us both to focus on our individual futures and not the past.  Maybe sometime in the future we will be able to be friends again, but then maybe not too.
KenC

[Mishenka]

>>Seeing how 80% of the RW to WM marriages fail<<

I presume you are speaking 'off-the-cuff' - as that statistic is FAR from the truth.

- Dan

 Theses are quotes from an attorney that I contacted, so off the cuff is accurate. I have no  clue if anyone even takes such polls or numbers, 50% is typical of any marraiges but doesnt take in account how many weddings per year and how many years the couples gettign divorced have been married so all numbers are not accurate, just off the cuff.
mishenka,

[LiveFromUkraine]

Possibly, but really, I have to take issue with those that are portraying Ken as the good guy martyr dishing out his altruistic "tough love" and everyone that has something to say to the contrary are "back biters". Seriously, what a joke.

But I guess that Ken is a big boy now and can take it as well as dish it out. His sympathy inducing comment about his current situation is stretching it a little though as he keeps on stressing that it was 8 or 9 months ago that they split very amicably and that life is just hunky dory now and "better than ever".

Whatever, I'm just classless I guess. 

No one is making KenC a martr.  It is just your jealousy coming through.  Basically, you may think I am reading too much in your name but your posts also contain mostly negativity.

Ken didn't have to come back here and tell his story knowing people like you would love to jump on him.  Ken didn't have to take divorce amicably, as well as Lena.  Funny how people question their love and yet the settlement wouldn't have been as easy as it is.

I would also label my Brother In Law as a real man.  He takes care of his child even after his divorce.  It isn't a normal thing for Ukraine.  His ex wife is a beast of a woman the way she treats him.   He just accepts it and does the right thing by not letting it affect his relationship with his son.  It isn't easy and most men in Ukraine would just leave just because his ex-wife is a pretty bad person.

No martr, I was talking about how he handled the situation, picked himself up and did it with class. KenC kept correcting misinformation not posting repeatably about a amicable split.  Even you asked him questions that were already answered.  Your statment (rolling eyes) that you don't believe Ken is alright shows how "Jaded" you are and tells everyone a little bit about you.

Honestly, it is people like you that made me decide to leave this and other boards.  Not a big deal since life is better offline anyway.  After posting in this thread I will probably disappear again while you continue to post your negativity.  

I would also say that most of the foreigners I met in Ukraine and the people that I have had to interact with on these forums should never pursue any type of woman until they fix their problems.  

[Ade]

Still, Ken has been through a lot and I firmly belive that if you dislike someone or have a grudge against them you should keep it on the shelf,  When a man is down is no time to attack him.  It doesn't show much character at all.  

Well, I thought the point he's made time and again was that he's over it and no longer "down". Or do you suggest we walk around Ken on tip toe for the next [fill in arbitrary time period here] in case it offends someone's sensibilities?

[Mir]

Once upon a time on a Planet called Love certain members here called a wife of another member here a "c" and a "w".<<

Why quote things on other boards?
Not too long ago the highly respected champion of though love JB called another member's wife a 'w' on this very board.
Never bothered to apologize and hardly any of the so called upright pillars of community condemned him on the board.
One this board as anywhere else fairness and decency is selective.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
(Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[facetrock]

  Why is it so hard for some people to believe that a marriage can end peacefully? Some people here I swear wish Ken and Lenas divorce would have been a knock down drag out fight. But it wasnt, its so peaceful its boring, their is no entertainiment whatsoever and that pisses some people off here. There is no drama like Scott, no DV charges like Maxx, no stupidity like Wayne(and Maxx)
  They were married for ten years, they both posted here and were obviously in love. You cant label Lena as a GCG because she stayed far longer than what was required. People change over time, they mature and not always in the same direction. Its life and it happens to most of us.
  I am sorry to say Ken but you have the most boring divorce anyone has ever read here:))))

[Admin]

Theses are quotes from an attorney that I contacted, so off the cuff is accurate. I have no  clue if anyone even takes such polls or numbers, 50% is typical of any marraiges but doesnt take in account how many weddings per year and how many years the couples gettign divorced have been married so all numbers are not accurate, just off the cuff.
mishenka,

Well, we spent a great deal of time, energy and money to arrive at some stats that I do not believe are "off-the-cuff" at all. They were professionally developed and vetted.

You can see them here -- http://www.goodwife.com/survey/xcultural_p01.html

- Dan

[Sculpto]

tip toe

SJ.. personally I like you.  Even though your posts are sometimes brutal I think you usually have a pretty good instinct about things.

here it is..

HOWEVER!

The Golden Rule applies here as much as anywhere else in life.  It doesn't matter if Ken has been at times harsh with others, or even with you.  As a recipient of a lot of harsh words on this forum I have to tell you, and others who think "tough love" is a way to get anyone to hear your point of view, IT DOESN'T HELP.  At a certain point people will just stop listening.  I know I am pretty much at that point.  In fact, in some ways the more virulent some people are in their opposition to my scenario the more inclined I am to ignore their comments and trust my GF and not the harshly critical words of strangers.  See my point?

Ken knows how things were with his Lena in ways NONE of us can appreciate no matter how much information he gives us in his thread.  He was there, we weren't.  The last time I checked EVERYONE on this planet makes mistakes.  No one is perfect, no one is without flaw, no one gets it right every time all the time.  So, why use langauge in a way that closes peoples minds and hearts to what might be an important message?  

I think we could all benefit from being more careful/thoughtful how we say things, myself included.

Humility is considerably more admirable than arrogance.  Humilty disarms peoples defenses while arrogance creates a highly flammable mixture.  

.78

[Vaughn]

 Why is it so hard for some people to believe that a marriage can end peacefully?

  Seems to me that aside from root causes, the real value is the manner in which KenC and Lena
conducted themselves. If my marriage drifted onto the rocks, you can bet they would be among
the first folks I'd call if 1) there was a fair chance to save it, and 2) there was little chance to save
it, but a marked desire to realize the mutually amicable split.

  If KenC would be willing to list some major points without revealing personal information that has no
bearing on the logistics of an amicable separation, I believe it would be of considerable value. I think
we've covered the nasty sort of split ad nauseum.

[Admin]

Why quote things on other boards?
Not too long ago the highly respected champion of though love JB called another member's wife a 'w' on this very board.
Never bothered to apologize and hardly any of the so called upright pillars of community condemned him on the board.
One this board as anywhere else fairness and decency is selective.

Mir,

I just did a search looking for all instances of jb using the term "whore." I found some - but none in which he calls a member's wife a whore. The closest he comes is referencing Bruno's ex-wife as a "GC whore", and to the best of my recollection, Bruno largely agreed with that crude assessment. In any case, the posts I found were several years old. If you know of something more recent, please remind me.

Couple of things that strike me.

It is in poor taste to resort to name-calling and vulgar terms of any sort.

It is in poor taste to make reference to people who are not active members here.

In the case of Dave's (Maxx2's) post, that was another feeble attempt to try to advance his argument using someone else's words. At least this time, they were not the words of a deceased man. This time, they were the words of someone who, like Dave, (sadly) harbors deep resentment over events occurring years ago. You see, Dave will drag anyone into his mire pit - if they allow it. I am not sure Mark gave permission for Dave to post those comments. It would be interesting to know - but we have already witnessed the wanton disregard Dave displays for others.

- Dan

[jb]

Damn-it~!  I see I'm still being trashed on this board although I haven't posted here in over a year, except to say "Merry Christmas" to a few old friends.

I only came over to RWD to find out if the rumors about Lena and KenC were true.   Unfortunately my worst fears were confirmed.  KenC,,, my heart goes out to you, I can appreciate how hard this must be for you.  

[KenC]

Vaughn,
Mutual respect is the key.  Nobody did anything "wrong" either.  (That is why I was thrown when asked about blame.)  Total honesty was another factor.  In many ways we both still love each other but the difficulties just became too much to bare.  Even if we grew apart as husband and wife, does not cancel out ten years of happiness for which we are both grateful.
KenC

[KenC]

Thanks jb.

[Mir]

It was wife of that chap from Norway, I think his name was Thor.
I am sure I can find the post but.......

It is in poor taste to make reference to people who are not active members here.

I accept that and apologize.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Personally, I think people sometimes talk too much about personal things on public forums.  KenC has his reasons for posting.  I know I wouldn't want to subject my wife to accusations by people on these forums. 

Ken, good luck even though I don't think you really need it.



Thomas

[KenC]

Thomas,
You're probably right, but I wanted to be consistant and honest here.  I posted so much about the good times, I thought I had to post about the bad too.  As it is I have been accused of "sugar coating" the events of our divorce.  I guess it just wasn't bad enough for some folks. 
KenC

[Sculpto]

Thomas,
You're probably right, but I wanted to be consistant and honest here.  I posted so much about the good times, I thought I had to post about the bad too.  As it is I have been accused of "sugar coating" the events of our divorce.  I guess it just wasn't bad enough for some folks. 
KenC

Some people are "rubber neckers" Ken.  They want to see the train wreck.  Look how many are cheering for me to crash and how disappointed they are when there are little successes. 

That said.. your experiences are really lingering in my mind these days every time I talk to my GF since the age gap is pretty much the same.