Realities of FSUW

[Zhena]

Although your posts indicate your age and inexperience, I'd pegged your photo at 40 - 45.

I suggest it was purposed to show your disgusting of my personality-well ,I ll gulp it. No,I looking younger than I am- but I dont care really. Maybe I am not so unexperienced as you think?
Now-have to agree with your picturing of a golddigger. If a woman leaves her husband for someone who can ofer more-I dont encourage that. She didnt have to marry him. I can see only one reason-he was doing good,then lost his job or business and doesnt do anything to improve the situation for the couple years or more. I just dont tolerate the lazy people.
What can I tell about the man who made his millions himself? He has to have at least those qualities:hes smart enough,not lazy,strong to follow his goals and ambitious. Probably,his self-esteem depends of what he has also. He likes the power the money bring and he is proud of himself.

[Zhena]

About the happiness,the question is complicated quite.
I kinda believe that the happiness is inside us and the external factors of life just somewhat influencing. You can meet the people who are happy just to be here and now and really dont need anything except the water and the bread. There is minority of such people though. Most of people need certain level of comfort to feel good. This level is different for the different people. And there is the small things what make our life brighter,like a candy for a child. For the "visual" type of people those things will be material mostly,something,that their eye likes. For the "sensual" type it will be more spiritual things. For the "audial" people-music etc. So,if the woman like some eautiful things,it doesnt necessarily marks her as a golddigger. Its simply something that makes her life brighter and happier. Of course she can live without those. But if she will have them-its like an icing,right,but that is the last point to the picture of the happiness.

[Ade]

I suggest it was purposed to show your disgusting of my personality-well ,I ll gulp it. No,I looking younger than I am- but I dont care really. Maybe I am not so unexperienced as you think?
Now-have to agree with your picturing of a golddigger. If a woman leaves her husband for someone who can ofer more-I dont encourage that. She didnt have to marry him. I can see only one reason-he was doing good,then lost his job or business and doesnt do anything to improve the situation for the couple years or more. I just dont tolerate the lazy people.
What can I tell about the man who made his millions himself? He has to have at least those qualities:hes smart enough,not lazy,strong to follow his goals and ambitious. Probably,his self-esteem depends of what he has also. He likes the power the money bring and he is proud of himself.

I just realized that you are the woman in the avatar photo. Well, that would explain some comments I guess.   And yes, you look 30ish, same age as my fiancée, although people keep on thinking she's younger than 25.

I've talked to and met some very dumb, self absorbed, egotistical and lazy wealthy guys. Some people made their money through blind luck.

Conversely, I worked with some very nice guys that aren't exactly wealthy and never will be and yet they are brilliant and very ambitious in their own fields; yes, they are happy and content because they are doing something they love to do.

Judging people's personal qualities by the amount of cash they have is inaccurate at best and I would consider anyone that did so to be fairly shallow or at least very inexperienced.

About the happiness,the question is complicated quite.
I kinda believe that the happiness is inside us and the external factors of life just somewhat influencing. You can meet the people who are happy just to be here and now and really dont need anything except the water and the bread. There is minority of such people though. Most of people need certain level of comfort to feel good. This level is different for the different people.

Actually, the level to be comfortable is much lower than most people believe. I know, I've been there and I grew up in an environment where most were like that and strangely, most people were happy. I've yet to meet anyone unhappy in the FSU no matter what their living conditions. Of course, there are those, maybe you are like them, that really are happier the more they material things they have.

FWIW, There have been numerous studies on this. You can find your own links I guess but here's one with some links to a few enjoyable reads http://neweconomist.blogs.com/new_economist/2006/02/forbes_on_happi.html 

So,if the woman like some eautiful things,it doesnt necessarily marks her as a golddigger. Its simply something that makes her life brighter and happier. Of course she can live without those. But if she will have them-its like an icing,right,but that is the last point to the picture of the happiness.

It will mark her as a gold digger if she values those things above the relationship with the person she is with.

[Caddydaddy]

As I started to write with my Baby 8 months ago I frankly told her she should not expect this is the "golden West", hehe.
But I am sure she appreciates that there is a house and garden and some stability. Which WW would not? And last but not least maybe because I am such a handsome guy 
Of course you can and should add some pleasant sentiments to your Baby with some nice boots, with a good french perfum or even with a laptop to make the long distance communication easier or whatever. I would not call this "materialistic". But only after you have reached a certain stage of relationship, i.e. after a personal meet and when you know each other a bit.
As I met my Baby for the first time in person, there was that certain click. No money was involved at all, except that I bought her a flight ticket.
Now I like to see her shining eyes when she walks with new boots, when she shows me her new makeup, I go down..., that is truly like icing on the cake 
I would certainly react completely otherwise when she would tell me I need $500 a day. I would say you live on another planet, better you move there.

Well, I think my Baby isn't like that 

some thoughts of her deduchka, darling, mynameboy, honey and supermachoman

alias
Caddydaddy

[pitbull]

I'll also reiterate what I've said previously; the MOB industry, by it's very nature, will attract those with a gold digger mentality in droves and skew the general perception of the men meeting these women.

SJ,

And equally (and some of the posts in this thread show this vividly) the MOB industry, by its very nature, attracts older men from the West, who are essentially losers in personal lives, are controlling and arrogant, and yet turn to MOB industry in their lust for a "young smooth flesh". And this skews the general perception of the women meeting these men.

I am actually appalled by some of the posts in this thread. Gentlemen, if you sincerely think that FSUW are inherently deceitful due to their "culture", will lie to anyone and everyone for personal gain, are materialistic golddiggers who will ditch a husband at the very first signs of financial problems, essentially have very low morality - why go to the part of the world which mentality you despise looking for a life partner?  Oh, wait, I think I know... there is no way a "highly moral" twenty-something pretty AW will look your way since you are in your 40-s and 50-s? And having a young beautiful body to yourself for at least a couple years is worth putting up with a horrible culture of these FSUW?

How can americans say that "nobody lies like FSU people", when the financial crisis in the US (and the world for that matter) started with lies and deceit of thousands of americans in the "mortgage meltdown"? Do you watch the news? Thousands of people who lied about income in their mortgage applications? Thousands tricked into bad mortgages by lying greedy agents? Madoff ponzy scheme that ran for years and left so many people penniless? and the story goes on?

In short, if you chose to associate with deceitful goldddiggers from FSU, this is your own problem (maybe because young pretty golddiggers are not interested in you here?  ) Please do not extrapolate on the whole culture and all women from FSU.

I apologize if my post is too harsh for some, but this thread just pisses me off

[GoodOlBoy]

31,having a child....

Just my two cents.....Never argue with a pregnant FSU woman!!  


GOB

[Mir]

For those who don't have considerable first hand experience FSUW are what they are advertised as.
And you can see how they are by looking at the adverts that are on all sides of this web page

[Faux Pas]

SJ,

And equally (and some of the posts in this thread show this vividly) the MOB industry, by its very nature, attracts older men from the West, who are essentially losers in personal lives, are controlling and arrogant, and yet turn to MOB industry in their lust for a "young smooth flesh". And this skews the general perception of the women meeting these men.

I am actually appalled by some of the posts in this thread. Gentlemen, if you sincerely think that FSUW are inherently deceitful due to their "culture", will lie to anyone and everyone for personal gain, are materialistic golddiggers who will ditch a husband at the very first signs of financial problems, essentially have very low morality - why go to the part of the world which mentality you despise looking for a life partner?  Oh, wait, I think I know... there is no way a "highly moral" twenty-something pretty AW will look your way since you are in your 40-s and 50-s? And having a young beautiful body to yourself for at least a couple years is worth putting up with a horrible culture of these FSUW?

How can americans say that "nobody lies like FSU people", when the financial crisis in the US (and the world for that matter) started with lies and deceit of thousands of americans in the "mortgage meltdown"? Do you watch the news? Thousands of people who lied about income in their mortgage applications? Thousands tricked into bad mortgages by lying greedy agents? Madoff ponzy scheme that ran for years and left so many people penniless? and the story goes on?

In short, if you chose to associate with deceitful goldddiggers from FSU, this is your own problem (maybe because young pretty golddiggers are not interested in you here?  ) Please do not extrapolate on the whole culture and all women from FSU.

I apologize if my post is too harsh for some, but this thread just pisses me off

Excellent point! But then you perpetrate exactly what you say pisses you off so much about others (on this thread).

Why the double standard? You didn't seem to mind painting Americans with a pretty broad brush there. Pit, that is a couple of posters on a thread and they are not all American. I agree with you btw. But, do as I say and not as I do is hardly a lesson to learn

[pitbull]

Excellent point! But then you perpetrate exactly what you say pisses you off so much about others (on this thread).

Why the double standard? You didn't seem to mind painting Americans with a pretty broad brush there. Pit, that is a couple of posters on a thread and they are not all American. I agree with you btw. But, do as I say and not as I do is hardly a lesson to learn

Faux Pas

Where did I say anything like "all Americans are inherently greedy and will lie and deceit for a profit because of their culture"?

I just pointed to a current US economic reality which involved a lot of greed and deceit from thousands of people... not 300 millions of All Americans. In fact, most of the them are suffering as a result. no need for AM to throw stones living in a glass house.

No double standard here. And yes, you are right. Foe some reason AM on this thread tend to bash FSUW culture, not European men.

my conviction is that human nature is essentially the same, and it is up to a person to choose who they associate with. My many American friends are great honest people, just like my FSU friends are. I just don't associate with liars no matter where I am.

[groovlstk]

The problem with these debates is that they start out with two interesting opposing viewpoints and then the participants always retreat to the most extreme examples to support their side of the argument.

It becomes the proverbial dirt-poor farmer who wants a woman to love him for his soul versus the proverbial material girl who will marry the first guy who offers to buy her a Maybach.

C'mon folks, these are premises for crappy Hollywood movies, the truth for most of us is somewhere in between.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas

Where did I say anything like "all Americans are inherently greedy and will lie and deceit for a profit because of their culture"?

You didn't. But you used this line which I thought was a pretty sweeping generalization. "How can americans say that "nobody lies like FSU people"" I am an American and I have never used such a line. In fact my experience is quite the opposite. Most all FSU people "I" know are honest people with admirable integrity. Maybe I am just lucky but I don't think so.

I just pointed to a current US economic reality which involved a lot of greed and deceit from thousands of people... not 300 millions of All Americans. In fact, most of the them are suffering as a result. no need for AM to throw stones living in a glass house.

And it is despicable. All Americans are suffering as a result and will for years to come. Most of whom had nothing to do with the fraud that was instigated by our politicians in Washington

my conviction is that human nature is essentially the same, and it is up to a person to choose who they associate with. My many American friends are great honest people, just like my FSU friends are. I just don't associate with liars no matter where I am.

I completely agree. Lying, deceitfulness and cheating is a deep seated personality choice and personality flaw that has nothing to do with ones nationality. I do not personally know any from FSU that fit the description but I do know plenty in America. That doesn't lead me to believe all Americans are lying cheats either.

[Wienerin]

Who doesn't like toys?  Even non materialistic people like toys.  The question is whether or not you live for them, can not be happy without them, and base your self worth and self image on your possesion or the ability to posess them.  

There're toys and toys. And yes, most of the people wouldn't be happy without something which isn't bare life necessities. Not everyone by far workes only to have their bellies full, non-leaking roof over their heads and something to put on their backs.

Even when I was struggling to feed etc. my boys, we paid attention to these "toys" - like when I would sit with them on Friday and put the options before them: here's how much money we have until the paycheck. We can eat sauerkraut schi, hash browns and pickled herring and bliny etc. (all very cheap) and go on weekend for a fling downtown, with a museum or/and a theater and bookinist stores (and buy some books, not just browse), or we can buy produce at a farmer's market, meats, etc. The choice was always the "cultural program", i.e. "toys"

"A" is a very frugal shopper.  When in Moscow she preferred to waste half a day going to Ashan to save a couple of pennies than to go to Petrovskys right across the street.

 
When one is working and raising a family spending half a day saving pennies isn't an option, and isn't frugality either. Time is money - and I prefer to earn more and to have more to spend than running around looking for "bargains". Though of course, I like a bargain, everyone does   And if something is worth more than I want to pay for it - more often than not I'll do without, even if I have the money.

She was at all times almost too aware of not overspending.  When we went to the theater on Saturday night and found out what I paid for the tickets she was upset that I had wasted so much money.

I would have been upset with a partner, who considered theater tickets, etc. "a waste".

The most miserable person I know in this life is also the one with the most money.  This is a guy I knew from high school.

 
Which only proves that thuis guy was an idiot - nothing to do with making big money.

The happiest person I know in this life is the one with the least money.  She is my "adopted" daughter in Mexico.  She lives in one small room with her husband and child on the hill above Puerto Escondido.  The toilet is an out house.  The cold shower is a bucket in between some mango trees.  She cooks the fish her husband catches every day from the boat.  When there are bad days and no fish and he runs out of fuel for the boat he dives off the rocky cliffs for lobsters.  She washes clothes by hand.  She does not have a tv, cell phone, cd player, car or any other modern toy.  But, when you see them with their child and the pure joy in both their eyes..

It's a happy life when you don't know anything better. Though how happy such really poor (and living almost in the 19th century - except for the motor-boat) people are when there's no fish, nobody buys ,lobsters, the family is starving or somebody gets really ill - I'll let you guess. (also why they flock to the US to be unhappy AND illegal here). I lived like this in most of the ways, and it wasn't a pretty life. Also why do these happy-happy people look like 60 when they're in their 30s - women in particular, - I'll let you guess also.

[groovlstk]

It is very touching and shows your love and appreciation. Also she would love a pair of the earrings for the anniversary,believe me. You can buy those really cheap,but your woman will be happy. You just should know her taste.

Zhena, you misunderstood me. In the last year alone, I've bought our first home (this home was my wife's choice and her name is on the title) and a brand new car. Perhaps for you a pair of nice earrings is preferable  - my wife doesn't lack for smaller gifts such as jewelry, also.

However, I don't buy her gifts because it's my obligation or I worry that she'll dump me for a wealthy man - and I think that's the root of the disconnect here. In a healthy relationship, when a guy buys his gf/fiancee/wife a gift, it comes from his heart. If he's doing it because she expects it as a token of his love or because he's afraid she'll dump him for someone wealthier, he has bigger problems.

I can only speak for myself, but years ago when I was single and read posts about how I must expect to buy x,y, and z to keep a RW happy, I used to get offended. Not because I couldn't afford x, y, and z, but because the idea that my primary motivation in giving gifts was to rise above other men pursuing her was a big turn-off to me. This may seem like a tiny distinction to many women, but for myself (and presumably other men) it's of paramount importance. Everything I did and everything I do for my wife comes from my heart, and at the end of the day it may seem all the same to you but it's not. 

[GoodOlBoy]

A little  BUT........

Look at this story about RM and their "toys":

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/600/42/376093.htm


GOB

[Misha]

In short, if you chose to associate with deceitful goldddiggers from FSU, this is your own problem

I believe this is in essence what I have been saying. Not all RW women are gold diggers, and my wife is certainly a great example. IMHO it boils down to this: what did men use to attract a woman? Personality, wit or a fat wallet? Did he send photos of his house and car to attract a woman or did he rely on his ability to impress a woman with conversation? If a man thinks that his most important asset is wealth, then he should expect to find a gold digger as if he uses cash as a lure he will invariably reel in a woman whose first interest is how much he can spend.  

[Misha]

It's a happy life when you don't know anything better.

TED has a great video where Dan Gilbert a Harvard psychologist explores what it is that makes people happy: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html. He comes to the conclusion that more money does not equal more happiness and that in many ways we generate our own happiness. When it comes to money, once you have reached a certain level that allows you to buy the necessities, then getting more money and more toys won't make you happier.

[Aloe]

Hello everyone, i wasn't gonna post anything but some ridiculous and some funny posts here just made me register.
What i don't understand is why so many people make generalizations like "All FSU people cheat and lie and its their cultural habit"? I have met so many lying foreign guys, and i don't go around slandering their entire nationality as liars and deceits. So what makes you think if your wife/gf/smb u talked to was a huge liar, and so were their friends (people tend to attract similar as themselves people as their friends, just because they can relate to each other better), that their entire nation is just liars?  And while you go around badmouthing russian women, have you ever taken a look in the mirror or around you? I spent 3 years on one popular dating website, guess what, very many guys begin telling about their house/cars/job and money very early on, trying to impress, i guess when they do find the girl that gets impressed by that, they date/marry her, then they realize she's only after the money, then they come complain on forums? Then why do you use money trying to impress women, if you don't like being liked for your money, i don't understand. If all you meet is liars and golddiggers, then perhaps you should look very closely at how YOU behave, what YOU emphasize when picking a partner, and what methods YOU use to attract a woman. That requires some degree of honesty to yourself though. You know the funny part about all those guys who would show off their money was that nearly all of them complained how all the women around them are such golddiggers and how there isn't a single decent woman and how they are tired of such women and just want to meet someone who likes them for who they are.

Actually the money/greencard paranoia in guys on such websites is quite funny. 1 time i wrote to this HANDSOME guy who happened to be 20 years older, the only reason i wrote to him was because he was extremely very very attractive, and he looked like 10 years younger than he was. The response i got from him was that he isn't interested, because in a couple years, when i get my green card, i'll dump him for a richer and better looking guy. Very funny.

Also, somebody said that with everything else being equal, a woman will prefer somebody with more money as their husband, i have a question there too, whatever happened to love? Normal woman will pick the one she loves, that's all. Although some women maybe would pick money over love, but i think that would be a very tiny, inferior and insecure minority. The ones you are talking about look for money and money only, otherwise she would base her choice on who she clicks with and falls in love with, not the one with more money. I used to be somewhat shallow too, caring about guys income and all, but then i simply fell in love, and i don't care that my fiance barely makes enough to provide food and shelter, i just love him and wanna be with him, and don't mind being poor for a few years until i finish my education or he gets a promotion.

[groovlstk]

Great post, Aloe. I hope you will stick around and share more of your thoughts and experiences here.

[Wienerin]

TED has a great video where Dan Gilbert a Harvard psychologist explores what it is that makes people happy: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html. He comes to the conclusion that more money does not equal more happiness and that in many ways we generate our own happiness. When it comes to money, once you have reached a certain level that allows you to buy the necessities, then getting more money and more toys won't make you happier.

Then we'll start argueing about what are the necessities   Let alone the sense of achievement and self-realization in your job, - which is not unusually higher rewarded than some work not requiring any qualifications and intellectual input.

Is travel a necessity? Are theater, museums, books... even good foods and nice shoes and clothes, of good quality and comfortable - necessities? Do you need a bathroom all to yourself, or is a "necessity" only a rickety outhouse or even a hole in the ground? And so on, and so forth.

We developed as humans because we used our brains to transform our environment to what suited us, made us comfortable. In order toeven sustain the level of development let alone to flourish, our brains need feed - which is information and exercise. So these are too necessary.
And the lack of these necessities WILL make one unhappy. But someone else will be perfectly conten with their, say, vegetable garden or knitting socks before the TV.

I'm at a loss to understand how this psychologist quantified happiness. Nobody is consistently happy. Mostly these are isolated mor or less brief moments. Or the general state of content. If you lack money for something you want - this is not conductive to happiness, I think.

BTW - I was never a woman to depend on any man for "providing". I did and do now rely upon myself. And yes, though I am reasonably happy, I'd like another 30-40K ... then it'd be pure bliss And my tastes do not run in the direction of mink coats or 5K diamond solitaires

[Misha]

Normal woman will pick the one she loves

Welcome! Great post. I am really happy as well that I married a normal woman 

[Misha]

Then we'll start argueing about what are the necessities  

I will comment more after my bike ride (which brings me much happiness)  However, I see it this way. There are some people who seek money as a means to do what they love (bike riding, visits to museums, going to the theater...). Some seek money to buy toys to inflate their egos and try to outdo friends and neighbors. Money becomes a means to an end. The latter IMHO are much less likely to be happy  :evil:

[SANDRO43]

Anybody read Erich Fromm's famous book (published 1976) ?

[Vaughn]

Hello everyone, i wasn't gonna post anything but....

A refreshing point of view from a new member!  Welcome, Aloe. Hope to see more of
you around these cloudy parts.

[Misha]

Is travel a necessity?

No, but I enjoy traveling. In other words, I will be happy if I travel, and can be happy if I don't travel. I don't tie my happiness to my travels, and relish the opportunity when it arises.

Are theater, museums, books... even good foods and nice shoes and clothes, of good quality and comfortable - necessities?

No, no, no, no, no and no, though I love going to museums. Again, I refuse to be unhappy just because I did not visit museum X or did not see play Y.

Do you need a bathroom all to yourself, or is a "necessity" only a rickety outhouse or even a hole in the ground? And so on, and so forth.

If that rickety old outhouse is in a beautiful meadow surrounded by flowers and trees and a great mountain bike trail, then I will prefer that toilet to a gilded toilet in the finest mansions or hotels.

We developed as humans because we used our brains to transform our environment to what suited us, made us comfortable. In order toeven sustain the level of development let alone to flourish, our brains need feed - which is information and exercise. So these are too necessary.

Well, this depends on your point of view of course. Some yearn for a simpler life.

And the lack of these necessities WILL make one unhappy. But someone else will be perfectly conten with their, say, vegetable garden or knitting socks before the TV.

I believe what you mean to say is that such a life will make YOU unhappy.

I'm at a loss to understand how this psychologist quantified happiness. Nobody is consistently happy. Mostly these are isolated mor or less brief moments. Or the general state of content. If you lack money for something you want - this is not conductive to happiness, I think.

I know too many people who put in a lot of energy not being happy. It is always easy to find a reason as to why you should be miserable, and those who are happy find ways of appreciating what they have while striving to achieve more.

BTW - I was never a woman to depend on any man for "providing". I did and do now rely upon myself. And yes, though I am reasonably happy, I'd like another 30-40K ... then it'd be pure bliss And my tastes do not run in the direction of mink coats or 5K diamond solitaires

Would you prefer to be miserable until you achieve another 30-40k? How does it go: "Везде хорошо, где нас нет!"

[Zhena]

Just my two cents.....Never argue with a pregnant FSU woman!!  


GOB

No,not pregnant anymore
Been pretty much pregnant on the avatar pic which Jaded criticised so much and somehow linked with my posts :DThan added that his fiancee looks as teenager-dont know,what it has to do with this topic,really When I dont wear my makeup everyone asks my ID also to make sure I am 21-so? Geez,this forum reminds me the bundle of the bees,disturbed by the bear,whos trying to steal their honey-thats how the men here react if some RW comes and starts to write. They try to stin Of course,they dont like if some stupid woman tells them she knows the women better than they do.