Realities of FSUW

[Aloe]

I do need it translated. " I will try my best if I see you're trying your best in things that are important to you" I got lost! 
What is "to get them for you to me is not trying"?

Он имеет в виду, что если он видит, что девушка изо всех сил сама пытается добиться чего-то(материальных благ) работая и т.д., то и он тоже будет изо всех сил пытаться этого достичь, но если он видит, что она сидит сложив лапки и требует дай мне то, дай это, то нафиг это надо )

[Doll]

 How old are remiel6 and Misha?
Aloe, thanks for explanation.

[Blues Fairy]

Very good. Your husband is not hopeless. You can teach him to give the presents
If you imagine me as some evil parasite who takes and takes only,you re wrong

Who says I want him to learn to give presents?  
It seems it's you who are hopeless; you just don't get it, do you.  

[remiel6]

I am 37

[Doll]

who wants to deliberately put themselves into financial straits before they even know a guy, right?

Right

But, you and I know that there are women out there that are just mercenary and their main consideration is money.

Correct again but we are NOT going for any generalizations regarding RW, ok? Like Misha does it. None of the extreme points of view are valid.

[Doll]

I am 37

And Misha? How old are you, Misha?
BTW most of guys RW marry are in their late 40s or early 50s. At this age the definition of a successful man is more clear- home, career, wisdom 

[Doll]

Who says I want him to learn to give presents?  
It seems it's you who are hopeless; you just don't get it, do you.  

Between us, girls, presents are not a must but that would be  awfully nice!
BTW I almost never get them- too bad. They are not about money- it is just some affection (or attention).
See, Misha? Nothing is perfect in our kingdom 

[Ade]

Right
Correct again but we are NOT going for any generalizations regarding RW, ok? Like Misha does it. None of the extreme points of view are valid.

As I have already said earlier in this thread, I don't believe that all, or even most, RW are mercenary as some others have stated. It's my guess that some people have gotten that impression because they've been exposed to a skewed sample from agencies and tours - we all know that agencies and tours do attract a disproportionate number of women whose primary goal is to better their life financially.

And Doll, you didn't answer my question; if your man had been demoted or fired instead of promoted, would you have left him? Do you love him for who he is or for what he provides?

[remiel6]

well I agree, attention and affection are vital to any happy relationship. I was specifically reffering to the buy me a new car or I won't love you anymore and divorce you. To me a Car might be a present for like brad pitt to buy, but me I don't make enough money to go around buying cars because someone "can't be happy." without one. Perhaps the dating profiles should come with this attached "Happiness is a BMW 750 series, or Lexus model number blah blah blah, oh and my own home in barbados and private jet so I can fly to the south of france to shop."

[Mishenka]

Nadya's words to me after she left me 2 years ago were " if you want me back, buy me a BMW sports car with only my name on the title, pay for my boob job, pay off my house, and while you're at it, pay my children's cost of University"  Was she joking? No. Did I want her back? No. Did she keep calling me? Yes, for 4 months, finally I told her to stop calling me. There was still something that we both could not let go of. Somethng deeper..... There is still some connection between us but we don't speak often. She told me "we cannot be friends again until one of us was married.  Now what is the meanning of this statement? 

Security to her was when her husband had enough money so she didn't have to work another day in her life. There is no such thing on this planet in the current condition we are in and this will not change in our lifetime, if ever. Let's get real. You can't live for the love of material things and have true love, they just don't fit together. After all  "the LOVE ( worship ) of money is the root of all evil"  True love in a relationship and practising the worship of money are diabolically opposed.

Mishenka

[Doll]

And Doll, you didn't answer my question; if your man had been demoted or fired instead of promoted, would you have left him? Do you love him for who he is or for what he provides?

I don't remember you asked me. Would have and should have don't count- let's be realists. Also my husband is an extremely responsible man and would have started looking for job right away, also he is a highly qualified person. So the answer is NO.
Do I love him? See- I am not specifying for what. The answer is yes I love him.
 
Hey after all we've been married for more than 7 years- this is a settled marriage and I don't feel like thinking what I love him for. I just do.

[Doll]

I forgot to add, SJ- I do work and will work as I also have some skills
(25 years in education))) The house is paid, my present car is going to be soon paid off, so no debts. The youngest kid is turning 16 so we all can and will work.]
This is quite a secure situation

[Doll]

She told me "we cannot be friends again until one of us was married.  Now what is the meaning of this statement?

She means you are not done in your relationships which is you still love each other.
Once one of you gets married - it means you (or her) is over this relationships.

[Misha]

Он имеет в виду, что если он видит, что девушка изо всех сил сама пытается добиться чего-то(материальных благ) работая и т.д., то и он тоже будет изо всех сил пытаться этого достичь, но если он видит, что она сидит сложив лапки и требует дай мне то, дай это, то нафиг это надо )

Правильно! Молодец! А я согласен. Кто хочет избалованная принцесса? Точно не я!

[Misha]

And Misha? How old are you, Misha?

I am 40, was 37  when I married my wife. So, how old are you?  :evil:

[Doll]

I am 40, was 37  when I married my wife. So, how old are you?  :evil:

120 pounds 

[Misha]

Correct again but we are NOT going for any generalizations regarding RW, ok? Like Misha does it.

What generalizations? I said that some RW are clearly motivated by financial goals when choosing a husband. I asserted that many/most RW marry for love. My point of view is that a man should avoid women who are interested first and foremost in material gain when choosing a marriage partner. Yes, even a "расчётливая" woman may make a wonderful wife, and may even come to love her husband, but it was not a quality that I was looking for in a woman. As I noted, if a man thinks he can attract a woman because of his cash and finds a woman who marries him for his gifts, more power to him. However, he should not expect much in the way of pity from me if she dumps him as she seeks to trade up  :evil:

[Wienerin]

Yes, nothing in that quote suggests that many or even most Russian women are interested only in the money. That is something you have added and isn't found anywhere in that quote.

Why then did I find exactly the same as Misha? The thesis goes something like this - if a woman has a choice, then she will choose a nice guy of modest means over a rich abuser, but if they both have nice disposition, then the subj. woman will choose the richer one.

It looks so absurd and insulting to a majority of women, that I do not like even to enter into an argument.

(BTW - in choosing a WM how does a RW decide who is a nice guy and who is an abuser? I've seen some spectacular flops, and even when the red flags were all over the chosen guy, the woman still insisted that he was OK...)

I would think that the first criteria would be whether I like a guy, whether there's some attraction, something in common, some interest. Otherwise his being well-to-do or not so "rich" do not even enter into the equation.

This discussion reminds me of an old anecdote (ascribed to Bernard Shaw and other poeple, but it doesn't matter). A man asks a pretty woman if she'll sleep with him for $100K... she's gets pensive, doesn't say "Yes" but looks at him favorably. Then he asks if she'll do it for $100... she waxes indignant, screeching "Who do you take me for? A prostitute?!" The man politely replies: "Ma'am, this fact we have already established, now we are haggling over the price"

[Misha]

Why then did I find exactly the same as Misha?

Thank you. I was beginning to wonder whether I was the only one who read it the way that I did 

[Mishenka]

Thanks Doll, Thats pretty much what I expected.
 
A few months later I got a call from her youngest daughter using her mom's cell phone. It was her birthday, she was turning 8 and wanted me to join them. They were going to visit Hollywood and Universal studios, then Magic Mountain. Nadya was standing with her as she spoke. Mom said no, he can not join us, just let him wish you happy Birtday. Asya said then I will stay home with Mishenka, you can go without me. That caused a little stir.  Mom takes the phone and says sorry, I didn't know she would do this,  I said no problem, I understand. I asked what the harm in it?  Asya is only 8 years old, let her see me. Nadya didn't want to talk about it, the pain of being apart was to fresh in her mind. She told me Asya loves you, you know this,, and I said yes of course, so let me love in return, and at least buy her some small gift, say hello make her happy.

That didn't work out. From June- December there was phone tags but no face to face meetings. By then I had been dating 3 or 4 others,,, None who could compare with Nadya, she spoiled me for any other woman. Chemestry,,,,, so strong,,,, it was scared both of us to death. We couldn't keep our hands or lips off each other, it was out of control. RW so dislike loosing control! We had met on the beach that one last time, kissed for 3 hours and said goodbye. She called me 6 times that night asking me questions about my past marriage, finances, how I can be taking so much time off  work to spend with her back when we dated, etc. When I asked why she came to meet me on the beach that day, she said, I just wanted to kiss you. 3 hours? That was a long kiss goodbye. She wanted more than a kiss goodbye. I haven't seen her face to face since. Just one phone call while I was in the hospital in December.

Funny how life goes. Pain, comfort, pain, move on, but do we ever really move on? I have vivid memories of every relationship.
Mishenka

[Mishenka]

I am 40, was 37  when I married my wife. So, how old are you?  :evil:

Misha,,, NEVER ask a woman her real age!!!
She will never tell.
In the future, look at her profile, add 10 years to her posted age and be silent that you know the real answer. Then imagine her without makeup, without her hair salon color and well, you get closer to the true picture. When you see her passport you will confirm it.

 

[Misha]

Misha,,, NEVER ask a woman her real age!!!
She will never tell.
In the future, look at her profile, add 10 years to her posted age and be silent that you know the real answer. Then imagine her without makeup, without her hair salon color and well, you get closer to the true picture. When you see her passport you will confirm it.

 

Well, of course I did not expect an answer 

[Aloe]

i just realized, some time ago i saw a topic with a poll (anonymous, so trustworthy i presume) on a russian forum for women who are married or are going to marry  american guys, the question was: "will you leave your husband when you have enough money", 75% said "no, i love him", about 10% said "yes i will" and the rest said maybe. so there.

[Wienerin]

who?

 let's say it more correctly- money is not the whole thing.
Though we are talking of women who start searching abroad so they are going to leave their environment- parents, families, jobs  for....for what? it is not a sightseeing. it is marrying a man and living in another country! see the difference between A-A marriages and R-A ones?

So how big a price tag is put by "Women who start searching abroad" (it's their free choice, isn't it?) on their parents, families, jobs, etc. - so that she'll graciously agree to move abroad? Providing, of course, the guy isn't "a rich abuser" (though some would still go - the question will be "how rich", I suppose)

I agree that in the somewhat unconventional marriages of WM|RW mone4y should play a part. Especially since the flame of love rarely burns strongly and irresistingly based on some correspondence/talks and 2-3 visits of 2-4 weeks. Miracles happen, of course, but still...

But what kind of money we are talking about? What lifestyle? And what is the part the WM perceived affluence plays in the decision to move away from the parents, family, friends, etc.?

You see, I actually do not understand. I cannot conceive of the price of leaving all my life behind me just to go after a man whom I didn't truly and totally love. And I wouldn't even leave if there were not other factors - I had everything one could wish for: the work I loved, modest fame and respect in my professional circle, nice apartment, my beloved city, enough money for everything I needed, etc., etc. Including my family and friends. But I needed to leave - and was going to do it even if I didn't meet The Boatswain... that was serendipity

So you leave because you have to or with the one you love, but money shouldn't be a serious consideration in my very humblest of opinions.
 

[Zhena]

Hate to eat in bed 
Zhena, stuffed krolik in the morning? I don't believe you- no American would make it for breakfast

Dolka...that was a toy