Realities of FSUW

[Zhena]

Before my last trip I would have been inclined to agree Misha.. but all of "A"s friends are dating much older men.. well in fact so is "A", that being me.  

"A" is well aware of my financial status and is in no ways put off by it and is very anxious to "build the garden" with me.  Maybe I found one in 140 million, but, somehow I don't think so.

My opinion, not backed up by any solid evidence other than the four RWs I know the best, is that given the right circumstances and the right man any RW is capable of marrying any man that suits her fancy and meets her ever evolving needs, be it emotional security, financial security or just really good sex.  

Oh,Sculpto...be careful! Tell us what happens in in some years

[Sculpto]

Thanks for the heads up Sculpto, but actually I came back to this board because I had read about two of the long standing members on here having marital issues. One of them gave my a warm welcome when I initially joined awhile back and even private messaged me which I greatly appreciated. I read through both threads in their entirety, and my heart goes out to both of them. And I am very family with a number of RW/AM relational disasters both on the various boards and personally in my own sphere.

that is good to know.

Actually it is exactly the opposite. It is the content of this debate I find problematic. It is one thing to be sensitized to an issue, its another thing to continue to mis-characterize someone's post because of that sensitivity.  

Nothing about what Zhena has said all day has been miscategorized.  She even kind of stuck her tongue out at us earlier when talking about getting her perfume.. or was that Doll?  I don't remember anymore...

She has made it clear that getting material gifts are important for her to feel loved and to motivate her to give love to her husband.  Sorry but I find this exceptionally sad and I feel pity for both of them.

[Sculpto]

OK its midnight in California which means the rest of you are staying up too late.  Time for bed kids.  See y'all manana.

[Zhena]

(
Zhena, you don't HAVE to read anything.  You started the debate with your comments and too bad for you but your comments have a really rotten smell for a lot of us men.  But, honestly I have to thank you because you have given me a big awareness of what to be aware of and watch for.  I am pretty sure I already made sure I will not have a woman who will make such demands as you do on your poor husband, but, I will triple check my assumptions because of what you have said.  So, thanks.  

Sculpto-I wont ask you ,should I read,or not,the topic where my name is mentioned so much. And where the not very smart men,who dont know anything about me neither my husband and our relationship,dare to say the dirty things about me.Call me names. I dont care how my posts smell for you,you re nothing for me. I even dont have any respect for your level of intelligece. Misha,by the way,claims he is intelligent too(very funny). All of you,just immature  despite of the age because they dont know what they argue about. Study the subject,you still have alot to learn. And my husband,unlike you,is not poor at any sense. You choose whoever you want,I wont shut myself cos you dont like me

[Zhena]

As you saw from my previous post I know why women from the FSU will need some assurances about life style; my fiancée has even asked me about this for other women considering coming to Norway - "is this a sufficient salary to live on?" And that's the thing, the women that do not prioritize money over other things just want to be assured that there's enough for a normal start. There's also a difference between the woman that is solely interested in money and those that prioritize it way up their list of criteria and expect to be taken care of for the rest of their lives. The former is little different than a prostitute, and in all likelihood the latter is a brat with entitlement issues and will attempt to trade up if they feel hard done by; surely you've heard the term, "High Maintenance"?

And you are wrong about the situation with my ex - money was not an issue because she wasn't totally dependant on me and had nothing to do with me having "enough".

BTW, I'm 6 pages behind and at this rate I will never reach the end of this thread.

You are missing one important point,Jaded.
I have never said I expect to be cared for till the rest of my life on the highest level. Never . I lke to work,I have an excellent profession and I will work as soon as I can. Actually my salary then will be enough to provide for me and my husband too. But I,being like to work,attracted only to the same men-who like to work,not lazy asses. I simply dotn respect that and dont tolerate that.In other words,I choosed a person wth the similar values.

[Ade]

You are missing one important point,Jaded.
I have never said I expect to be cared for till the rest of my life on the highest level. Never . I lke to work,I have an excellent profession and I will work as soon as I can. Actually my salary then will be enough to provide for me and my husband too. But I,being like to work,attracted only to the same men-who like to work,not lazy asses. I simply dotn respect that and dont tolerate that.In other words,I choosed a person wth the similar values.

Then you should be careful how you clarify your statements. You stated that if a guy could no longer provide you would leave him. I even asked if that was what you meant and you said I'd read it correctly. This is a big difference than not wanting "lazy asses" - and, fwiw, there are many reasons why a man may lose an income besides laziness. I wonder if Scott's wife would use similar logic to describe her decisions, I vaguely remember he mentioned that she did think he was "lazy".

IMO, your value system does shine through and, IMO, it's not a particularly nice one.

BTW, Your comments about the guys intelligence is uncalled for and highly inaccurate.

[Zhena]

The guys got what they deserve-I dont let anyone to insult myself and I didnt do that first. If I will be banned for that-its ok,I will survive that. They should watch their mouth and learn to be reserved.
Now-if you ll read again the original post,I said,that a guy who lost his income for whatever reason and DOESNT TRY to improve the situation for a couple years. A person,who does something,even not very resultative-but does!-should be only supported. If he lies on the grass and observes the birds in the sky,while I will try to save the situation and not let the family to starve-well,too bad. Personally I will not tolerate this. I am too responsible and I dont understand other.

[Ade]

The guys got what they deserve-I dont let anyone to insult myself and I didnt do that first. If I will be banned for that-its ok,I will survive that. They should watch their mouth and learn to be reserved.
Now-if you ll read again the original post,I said,that a guy who lost his income for whatever reason and DOESNT TRY to improve the situation for a couple years. A person,who does something,even not very resultative-but does!-should be only supported. If he lies on the grass and observes the birds in the sky,while I will try to save the situation and not let the family to starve-well,too bad. Personally I will not tolerate this. I am too responsible and I dont understand other.

Then at least some of my conclusions have been based on a misunderstanding of what you wrote.

Your materialism (or what seems to be your materialism by my understanding of your comments) is still there though but maybe that's not so very uncommon among women your age. Not something I'd appreciate, find attractive or accept in a partner.

As for your insult, well, they are obviously not stupid.

[Zhena]

They are not stupid in the sense they are selfish But that may be not obvious for some women. For me it is,so I dont see anything smart in that.
That you dont welcome my viewpoints-God bless you Its your right as soon as you dont proclaim your opinion the only right one.

[Zhena]

Time to sleep though-had a nice day with you,gentlemen

[Ade]

They are not stupid in the sense they are selfish But that may be not obvious for some women. For me it is,so I dont see anything smart in that.
That you dont welcome my viewpoints-God bless you Its your right as soon as you dont proclaim your opinion the only right one.

I don't get the "selfish" comment, maybe you can explain when you wake up?

[Doll]

Politely? Of course, always welcome I got to the USA on an airplane... No, I didn't marry an American. I have a very good and satisfying job. I have two kids, one of whom also has a kid. My kids are older than you are, and they live in StPetersburg and Vilnius. I have been married twice, and now I live (for 17 years) with my boyfriend, The Boatswain.
 

Вот елки- Киса!  ;Just changed your name! It explains! 

[Misha]

First, truth isn't determined by counting noses.

Yes, but when you have one person insisting that five or six other people are wrong and are "misreading" something, then I usually side with the five or six.

Strange. You just got through accusing me of making extreme statements, and then you turn around and make extreme statements.

For Gator and for you, I will define once again my "extreme statement" so you can stop misquoting me. I believe: most RW (there are exceptions) are not materialistic and will not marry a man if they do not love him, no matter if he has a lot of money. Sure, they may not want to go to another country to live with a man who can't provide the basic necessities (food, shelter and clothing), but most women will also not go live in another country with a man that they do not love. My opinion is not based on women in agencies or women who have married foreigner, but the average Natasha or Sveta that you are likely to bump into in the streets of Moscow, Irkutsk or Ekaterinburg.

However it is a back door way of trying to sneak in your continued mis-characterization of several Russian women in this thread when you have repeatedly tried to suggest that they said that RW are in this marriage thing only for the money. It was wrong then, it is still wrong now.

Several? It was two: Zhena and you can perhaps throw in Doll if you wish. And, I note that some other Russian women found some of the comments objectionable such as Wienerin and Blues Fairy.

What is interesting is that you continue to dodge issues, offer iffy support for your contentions, look for other people to support your position as if somehow that makes it right, and then try to throw out a red herring by offering up something that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Again, many others have read Zhena's post and come to the same conclusion. If you do not agree, fine, that is your right.

Normally I would answer that, but since it is such a weak and blatant attempt to sidestep what we are talking about, I think I will just ignore it.

Please do.

[Doll]

Misha, you are amazing! 

[Misha]

Misha, you are amazing! 

I am confused. Should I read this as a compliment or insult  I will assume the worst LOL  :evil:

[Doll]

I am confused. Should I read this as a compliment or insult  I will assume the worst LOL  :evil:

Well, you should know Russian women then. They like to tease and AM buy it like they bought my yesterday  "Chanel story" 
BTW, Misha, why do you expect the worst?

[Misha]

BTW, Misha, why do you expect the worst?

Well, we have exchanged our fair share of barbs these past few months   

[Doll]

Well, we have exchanged our fair share of barbs these past few months   

So you know

[Gator]

That's okay Gator, you impress me as a Sugar Daddy  

Is this supposed to be an insult after my pesumption that you do not have children?

Five points:

1.   If one is generous, Sugar Daddy is a term of endearment.
2.   Now that I am in my Golden Years, I could give away my money to the poor; however, I would not want to deprive people like you and Slightly Jaded from realizing the joy of success of accomplishing something on your own.  You should try it.
3.   I am married, and I assure you that being a Sugar Daddy is far less expensive than marriage.  So it is not about money, but fulfilling my true nature of being a family man.
4.   Perhaps you too have written a book and planted a tree as have I, yet children complete the man.  You are missing something very special.  I did what you are now doing in the innocent naiveté of my late 20s, not in my early 40s.  In my 40s I was doing Boy Scouts, Atari, sleepovers, fishing trips, soccer, summer adventure trips, and teaching important life lessons such as how to crap in the woods.
5.   If your wife is close to your age, her biological clock is going “Tick Tock.” Don’t deprive her and yourself.  If she is much younger than you, why are you casting stones regarding one of many issues in this RW endeavor when you live in one of the many models of RW glass houses?

You are an intelligent man, yet I find the breadth of your interests to be very narrow.  You could add more to RWD than to keep singing the same old song.

[Ade]

I see the thread has gone full circle and we're now on to willy waving.

[Misha]

Is this supposed to be an insult after my pesumption that you do not have children?

Gator, it is not polite to presume anything about someone. So, yes, it was a jibe, but I see based on your reaction that it did touch a nerve  :evil:

Now, on to your points.

1.   If one is generous, Sugar Daddy is a term of endearment.

I agree, which is why I chose this jibe LOL.

2.   Now that I am in my Golden Years, I could give away my money to the poor; however, I would not want to deprive people like you and Slightly Jaded from realizing the joy of success of accomplishing something on your own.  You should try it.

Again, very presumptuous. You are presuming that I cannot realize anything on my own

3.   I am married, and I assure you that being a Sugar Daddy is far less expensive than marriage.  So it is not about money, but fulfilling my true nature of being a family man.

I will take your word for it  

4.   Perhaps you too have written a book and planted a tree as have I, yet children complete the man.  You are missing something very special.  I did what you are now doing in the innocent naiveté of my late 20s, not in my early 40s.  In my 40s I was doing Boy Scouts, Atari, sleepovers, fishing trips, soccer, summer adventure trips, and teaching important life lessons such as how to crap in the woods.
5.   If your wife is close to your age, her biological clock is going “Tick Tock.” Don’t deprive her and yourself.  If she is much younger than you, why are you casting stones regarding one of many issues in this RW endeavor when you live in one of the many models of RW glass houses?

Again, can you find one post where I said that I did not value children? Once again, you jumped to a conclusion and made presumptions that were not based on anything I have posted. I for one love children, but also believe that ideally men and women should marry out of love, respect and shared values, goals, interests, etc... Financial stability is good, but it should not be the sole or even the primary motivator.

You are an intelligent man, yet I find the breadth of your interests to be very narrow.  You could add more to RWD than to keep singing the same old song.

The same old song that most Russian women are interested in more than money and gifts? Sorry, if that annoys you, then perhaps you should put me on ignore  

[Gator]

Misha,

You did not hit a nerve.  I am who I am, and you are you. 

If the title of your song is "most Russian women are interested in more than money and gifts," then I applaud you for a positive message.  Yet your lyrics tend to be negative about many RW whom I have found to be good-hearted.  Nevertheless, you are not as negative as your sidekick and rarely do you place words in the mouths of others.  And I commend you for the latter. 

[Doll]

The same old song that most Russian women are interested in more than money and gifts?

Wow, Misha, are you really saying it?

[Misha]

Yet your lyrics tend to be negative about many RW whom I have found to be good-hearted.

Many? Again, who are these hordes of women? Yes, I did not agree with Zhena's perspective as I found she overgeneralizes, and, yes, I believe that individual RW can overgeneralize about RW, in the same way that some WM can overgeneralize about WM. Also, I was not alone in my interpretation of Zhena's words. Wienerin, Blues Fairy, Aloe, also did not concur with me as to my interpretation of what Zhena was saying.

As for Doll, well, I do enjoy sparring with her. Call it a guilty pleasure  :evil: I do respect what she says, though I won't necessarily tell her this directly LOL!

Nevertheless, you are not as negative as your sidekick and rarely do you place words in the mouths of others.  And I commend you for the latter. 

Thank you. I just find it annoying when people assume things about me   As that childhood ditty goes, when you assume things, you make an ASS out of U and ME.

[Misha]

Wow, Misha, are you really saying it?

I have been saying this all along since the very first day that I joined this forum  I was saying this many moons ago when I was arguing discussing with you about salaries and RW and marriage.