First date went well, won't return calls, how many times should I try?

[SomeDude]

Yeah she's forgotten by me already. No need to  over a single date.

I could honestly care less about how I recieve the message, even something as immature as having a friend do it would be more acceptable then not answering back at all. If I get an answer I can delete her from my contacts and move on that minute. It's final, the decision has been made. If not I'm wasting my time wondering about all of the things that have been mentioned above in other posts.

Plus in any case the SMS was acceptable. I SMS'ed her and she replied using the same medium.

[Gator]

I don't see what's wrong with "vaporizing". Do you think it is better to tell a guy "thank you, but I am not interested in meeting you" ?

Thanks for responding.  Yes.  It is called closure.  Also as GOB said, it is polite.  A "go away you loser" or "phuck off" is a more understandable message than nothing, although I would feel better if it were sugar coated. 

This vaporizing act puzzles me.  In face to face communication, RW typically are forthright, a and I find that refreshing.  Yet, once in the world of emails and phone calls, some RW may simply ignore you.  My wife never ignored me, even when she was busy.  She made a point to respond, and that impressed me.

If dating again (God forbid), I need to be more like Kievstar.  However, I was not raised that way, and in business I always quickly moved to the point and avoided delays as much as possible.  When it was time to fire an employee, I hesitated for only one night.

[Mishenka]

Guys take it as a lesson, RW who are not interested in a future with you are notorious for silence, not returning calls, and just vaporzing into thin air. In their mind, they don't owe you anything so don't expect it. Rude? yes they can be, so let this teach you a lesson. If they want you, they will let you know. In every date I went on it was clear what the RW wanted, she simply took it. She never turned down a gift, flowers, a good meal at an expensive restaurant or good sex.  After all, at my age, their age, they live under communism most of their life, they share everything in common. If  you have nothing to offer them or they don't want anything from you, they go to where they can find something they do want. You become a vague memory.  If they do want you, they will invest everything they have to keep you happy and satisfied. It's a two way street. Just watch for green lights, orange lights, red flags and checkered flags,

Mishenka

[mies]

Thanks for responding.  Yes.  It is called closure.  Also as GOB said, it is polite. 

Well, maybe.
Maybe it is just my experience, but I am strongly convinced that it is the cultural difference, rather than difference between russian women and western men. FSU men are much more famous in vaporizing than FSUW. Moreover, I believe in practice even western men disappear much more often than you may think. They also may say "in theory, I will tell her", but how many times did you in reality told these things to a woman rather than "postponing a call" or "sending e-mail a bit later"?

and my own attitude - I am not rude, but I hate dramas and "drama kings". I would do anything to avoid the dramas.
Also, there are many rude people around, and men are often rude when their "feelings" and pride are being hurt. For woman it's easier to vaporize rather than being polite and getting rude remarks back from "hurt" man. And even the most tender and polite men have tendency to act unpredictable. For example telling to a woman "you gave me hope, you went on a date with me, you OWE me and I am going get from you what you owe me" (this is quoted from a real story). Or a quote from a different story "You know - I don't need you! I don't have time for you! I decided to break up first - not you! Why do you bother me?" {being shouted in a hysterical way}
The problem with those "first dates" is that you dont' have a chance to learn person well enough on a first 1-2 dates, and you don't know what's the reaction going to be. The risk of getting rude remark (or something else) is very high. Yes, I am polite, and I try to be nice with everybody, but my own well-being, good mood, and feeling happy and being safe is more important to me rather than pleasing the world. When my comfort is jeopardized - I rather vaporize than play Mother Theresa.

[kievstar]

Hi Gator, regarding dating an AW still need to be a gentleman and romantic.  Not sure you understand what I mean. Internet is probably not best way to describe it.  But a man a asking for a second date or sending several sms is not best way.  I mention asking as it is not a confident way of getting second date.

[acrzybear]

Mies

 I hate drama as well, I would prefer that a woman tell me that she doesn't want to see me again because I'm ugly, smell bad whatever the reason is.  I would then thank her for her honesty and move on.  After all how much does a NORMAL person have invested with one date? ZILCH!!  Why do people need to be all emotional over a person they have nothing vested in?  A date is just a meeting to see if two people have anything in common and might perhaps want to move forward-nothing more nothing less.

[SomeDude]

I can tell now i used the wrong wording in my original post. I really didn't feel any chemistry either, but I was willing to give it one more date to see if it was a fluke or something.  I still found her pretty, engaging and good at conversation so I found have gone out with her once more.

When she told me "not interested" I simply went "ces't la vie" and deleted her number and could have cared less. I just needed the finality of it to do that. I like have the chapter end, the story close and so forth.

I would tell a girl "not interested" after one date and not feel bad about it because I thin it is polite to tell someone. My limited understanding of mies post also rings true about a Russian girl thinking it is simply ok to just vaporise. Russians don't spend much time on pleasantries so there would be no reason for them to take time to tell you that they are not interested in you, for you will eventually stop calling anyways. To imagine their courtesy I remember getting dirty looks and scoffs from cashiers in Omsk for having to make 800 rubles change for me in a grocery store.

When I first became interested in Russian girls I told someone (a Russian or Ukrainian) that I wanted to learn Russian first so I could communicate, they told me that was stupid, "learn the culture first and last" was what I was told. Well I must say I've got a bit of cultural learning out of this post

[JR]

I just needed the finality of it to do that. I like have the chapter end, the story close and so forth.

OK, pretend I am her..."Dude, I don't want to see you again."

Ahhh....another happy ending

You may now start a new chapter, Oh look, it's blank! Please feel free to fill it with anything you wish

[Aloe]

she didn't answer not because she's impolite, but probably because she hates to make other people feel bad. i do that sometimes, i really really hate telling that to people, especially with voice, esp considering how many russian guys would definitely say something rude in return, even if 5 minutes ago they were telling how much they liked you, but when they hear it's not gonna work, they start saying mean stuff, from which i draw a conclusion that they feel hurt (or their ego feels hurt? ), and i really hate hurting people. so there.

[Aloe]

i encountered that attitude from foreign guys as well. i send a reply to somebody's letter saying i'm not interested, and get in reply something that can be summed up to: one pretty face more one less, you aren't special, doesn't make a difference.

[Gator]

Aloe,

You need to learn how to close relationships with men.  Remember when closing that you are a fine young lady, and strong too knowing that the man may be a jerk. 

What you did in the past is to move on without closing, i. e. "vaporizing."  You give your reasons:

i really really hate telling that to people, especially with voice, esp considering how many russian guys would definitely say something rude in return

If RM are rude to you and do not respect your opinion, it is additional proof that these RM do not deserve someone as fine as you.  You should feel better about yourself for learning that fact.

i encountered that attitude from foreign guys as well

The same as with RM. Good riddance! 

....and i really hate hurting people. so there.

You can not hurt a jerk, and only a jerk would be rude if you said "no."   Next time, when you say "no" and the man is rude, feel proud of your strength.  Feel better about yourself that you were smart enough to not waste time with jerks.



In contrast, a gentlemen is confused by your vaporizing act. 

[GQBlues]

If this were an American girl I would just take the hint and scratch this one, but with it being a FSU girl I'm thinking it just my be part of the chase I need to go through to get her.

Hindsight's address will always be 20/20.

One of the oldest (wisest) thing people will tell you involved in international relationships is to 'never chalk up strange (bad) behavior on cultural differences'. Please take that simply as a cautionary suggestion.

The Saturday moment may have only been nothing more than a fun 'friendly' time for her, like spending a day with a 'pal'. She told you the truth, via text, when she agreed it was a nice time. Could it be that 'you' wanted (saw) more out of it than she did? A day out with a 'nice guy' (?).

You text'd her on Monday, then followed it up with 3 calls in the same week for possibly hooking up that weekend - seem like a bull rush to me...and I'm a guy. Sorry.

Bottom line...if the girl really liked you (attraction), regardless of culture and nationality, they will let you know. It will be obvious. While there will be exceptions, it will be very few and far in between. The 'hug' at the end of the date Saturday suggested that at least for me.

As for women ignoring phone calls to avoid additional dates, yes many do that. Many don't want to have to deal with potential confrontational (uncomfortbale) situations. In the US, beautiful, single, young, and foreign is prime choice. There's a great likelihood you fell into the group of men vying for her attention by constantly calling her. You simply became 'faceless' and non-significant - one of 'those' guys..

Just let it happen and drop it for now. If there is something about you, she'll get back to you. If there never was, you at least kept your integrity intact. If you sway with the grain, sometimes it's difficult to be noticed. Cut across it now and then, women seem to take note.

Good luck.

[HiTech]

Aloe, If you say goodbye to a man, and he gets angry, why do you not take the view , "Now I know I am glad to be rid of him" ?

HiTech

[ECOCKS]

she didn't answer not because she's impolite, but probably because she hates to make other people feel bad. i do that sometimes, i really really hate telling that to people, especially with voice, esp considering how many russian guys would definitely say something rude in return, even if 5 minutes ago they were telling how much they liked you, but when they hear it's not gonna work, they start saying mean stuff, from which i draw a conclusion that they feel hurt (or their ego feels hurt? ), and i really hate hurting people. so there.

Aloe:

A word of advice. Be more selective with which men you date. Strengthen your profile to weed out a few more of the emotionally insecure and clearly state you will give a quick response one way or the other as to interest. Normal guys don't feel a pathological need to fire back something like that. They may be inexperienced with regard to the international dating world but it sounds more like they wanted to fire off a malicious last shot at a polite, system processed indication of no interest.

As for you "hurting" them, it's really in everyone's best interest to not waste either your time or theirs.

[JR]

someone as fine as you. 

Gator...how do you know Aloe is fine? Maybe I should marry Aloe instead of Yana?

[Aloe]

lol well thanks for advice, but hopefully i won't need it. i think i found my love, so no dates anymore
Didn't think it would bother someone so much, if somebody doesn't answer calls after 1 or 2 dates, it obviously sends the message that the person isn't interested, isn't that closure enough? I'm talking about 1 or 2 dates thing, not a relationship. Obviously if it's a relationship, then you HAVE to tell the other party when you wanna break up.

[Aloe]

Aloe,

You need to learn how to close relationships with men.  

1 or 2 dates is not a relationship 

[Aloe]

Gator...how do you know Aloe is fine? Maybe I should marry Aloe instead of Yana?

does Aloe get a say in this? 

[Faux Pas]

1 or 2 dates is not a relationship 

Common courtesy would have been to accept the call and tell Dude, thanks but, no thanks. Of course that is for someone perhaps with some breeding and good manners?

[groovlstk]

Common courtesy would have been to accept the call and tell Dude, thanks but, no thanks. Of course that is for someone perhaps with some breeding and good manners?

I certainly don't blame women like Aloe if she's timid about telling a guy to flake off, especially one like the OP who came away from a first date way too fired up and aggressive.

i really really hate telling that to people, especially with voice, esp considering how many russian guys would definitely say something rude in return, even if 5 minutes ago they were telling how much they liked you, but when they hear it's not gonna work, they start saying mean stuff, from which i draw a conclusion that they feel hurt (or their ego feels hurt? ), and i really hate hurting people. so there.

Sadly, men like she described are all too common - why should she bother with explaining something that's obvious to everyone in the world except him when there's a good chance she'll be insulted? In a perfect world her honesty would be respected but there are too many men with fragile little egos.

[Aloe]

Common courtesy would have been to accept the call and tell Dude, thanks but, no thanks. Of course that is for someone perhaps with some breeding and good manners?

Common courtesy would have been not to launch into personal attacks at somebody for sharing their thoughts on the subject, however appalling they may seem to you.

[Aloe]

I guess i need to clarify that in my post i never said that i ignore them completely, what i said was that i sometimes ignore calls. It doesn't mean that i don't send them sms. I also said that i hate doing it, but then again, it doesn't mean i don't do it.

[Aloe]

Ok, i just reread my later post about closure, it seems to send the message that i do completely ignore them, but that wasn't what i meant, because i was talking about feeling of "closure" in general, that i didn't think somebody wouldn't find closure only because somebody ignored them after 1 or 2 dates. Not because i personally ignored them, but in general when such situations happen. Jesus, you better be so damn precise on this forum otherwise some people will assume the worst of you.

[ECOCKS]

Don't be surprised at that level of personal involvement Aloe.

People, at least ones from western cultures, tend to get pretty emotionally invested in discussions on politics, religion, relationships and money.

That might be a bit different from the FSU where questions are regarded as more intrusive, personal viewpoints are more-often talked around and long discussions on topics like these are a bit baffling. I cannot count how many times I heard "Why do you care about these things (many contexts)?" while in Eastern Europe. The western view tends to be "Because we can," and "Because we are simply curious about the subject rather than attacking the situation."

Also, a major problem with printed response forums is that black and white rendering of your words and feelings.  Many simple and innocent things are stated but without inflection, facial expressions or the atmosphere of a face-to-face meeting, they are more apt to be twisted by all sides in a debate.

You might want to look at the discussion on "Realities of FSU Women" and the other one on Education and Higher Degrees to see how the discussions flow.

[Faux Pas]

I certainly don't blame women like Aloe if she's timid about telling a guy to flake off, especially one like the OP who came away from a first date way too fired up and aggressive.

Sadly, men like she described are all too common - why should she bother with explaining something that's obvious to everyone in the world except him when there's a good chance she'll be insulted? In a perfect world her honesty would be respected but there are too many men with fragile little egos.

I disagree with you. It is a matter of preference and courtesy. If she goes out with a guy she certainly "owes" him nothing. She is completely within her rights to vaporize and leave him hanging. That is not the nice thing to do and one with proper manners wouldn't. It doesn't matter how she lets him know she isn't interested in anything further. SMS, write him a card or tell him point blank on the telephone. She accepted and went on the date in good faith and it didn't work out for her. All fine and well but, in my neck of the woods it is in poor taste to ignore the person when you can save them and yourself any further thought or grief. It can be done where both retain their face and dignity whereas when one gets blown off it can leave them with a degree of shame.

Common courtesy would have been not to launch into personal attacks at somebody for sharing their thoughts on the subject, however appalling they may seem to you.

Aloe, I certainly didn't mean to appear to be attacking you, I wasn't and I apologize if you thought otherwise. I realize you may not be familiar with such common courtesies that are considered in good taste in my part of the world. I was merely explaining it.