When *she* wants a prenup

[Gator]

The best way to measure sincerity is to ask the question:

Does she have more to lose than you do?

My guess is "yes."  Why?  You have already mentioned her independence.  It seems that she will be giving up a very successful job to move to another country where she has no professional contacts and her work experience and two degrees are not worth what they were in the FSU.   So she wants some protection if you dump her (or turn out not to be her man).

Also:

-  She is experienced, having made two trips to meet you.  Experienced RW know about prenups (marriage contracts in Russia).

-  RW are natural skeptics.  So asking for something in writing confirms the promises you made in spoken words.

-  What she asks for, is not large, something you would do anyway.  It is a little protection to cover her risks.  You can add stipulations about whether you are employed.  

The only problem is if she has a hidden agenda and plans to bolt upon arrival.  Even though you have met 4 times, it still is not enough time together IMO for most RW to BIG LOVE, especially if they are over 25.  So add in the prenup that you will only provide what's she wants if you have not filed for divorce within the first year.  A year of living together should be enough to decide.

If you have one-year threshold, she will want some protection.  How about opening up an account for her with $2,000 - 3,000 in it as running away money.  That and her return ticket should be enough.  


"Budget" is better than "allowance."  If you give her money monthly until she finds a job, make sure that most of it is to cover some household expenses for which she will be responsible (food shopping).  The rest could be for cosmetics, manicure, hair and her clothing.   That means if your food budget is $800/mo, you will need to give her $4,000/mo.   (that's a joke)

This issue perhaps is moot because I don't think you have enough time to develop anything other than a straightforward prenup before her arrival.  Talk to an attorney.  And your attorney will think of other stipulations to protect you.

[groovlstk]

Apparently, "she" knows how ugly people are when they deal with the divorce ( just take this forum with all the advises that you, AM, give each other).

True enough in many cases, but I'd consider your advice to be ugly and humilating, also. In a nutshell, your consistent response is to blame the man, advise him to sit back and let his soon-to-be ex-wife help herself to anything she'd like, and then not interfere w/her attempts to get a GC.

If we can say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the same applies to ugly.

[UTRO]

Apparently, "she" knows how ugly people are when they deal with the divorce ( just take this forum with all the advises that you, AM, give each other). As for the American government that guarantees the rights and protects RW- give me a break!
If there is no property acquired in marriage- then "she" knows what she is doing ( I mean if her husband-to-be already owns the house)

Doll, are you implying that the American government doesn't protect the FSU Bride?? I'm sure it can't be any different than Canada?? See below....


How long is your husband responsible for you as your sponsor?

When your husband signs the sponsorship agreement, he promises to sponsor you for at least three years from the day you become a permanent resident.   


What are your husband's obligations as a sponsor?

Once the sponsorship application has been processed and approved, and your husband is legally considered your sponsor, he has certain legal obligations:
Financial Support   
The agreement or undertaking your husband signs with the Canadian government is legally binding. The agreement is a promise to financially support you for a period of at least three years so that you do not need to access financial assistance through the government. If, for some reason, you do access social or government assistance, this sponsorship agreement means your husband has promised to pay the government for your use of its services.   

Before your husband's sponsorship application is accepted, he will have to prove to the government that he has enough money to support you for the specific period of time laid out in the agreement (usually three years). If he cannot prove this, it is possible that his sponsorship application will not be accepted.   

Basic Requirements   
As a sponsor, your husband must provide you with the basic needs you require to live in Canada. This usually means supporting you financially, which includes providing you with shelter (a place to live), clothing, and food. It also means providing you with the means (again, financial) to receive medical attention that is not covered by the public health system should you require it (for example, dental care, eye care).   
 
It is important to remember that once the sponsorship application has been approved and you have gained permanent resident status, your husband does not have any legal power over you personally. This means he cannot legally force you to have children or take care of his parents, and he cannot have you deported even if he has threatened to do so.   
 
If your husband stops supporting you before three years have passed, he may not be allowed to sponsor anyone else. Consult a lawyer to ask about taking legal action against him.    



What are your obligations as a sponsored person?

As a sponsored person, you do not have additional responsibilities to your husband. This means that you are not legally obligated to do what your husband says or what he wants because he is your sponsor. Legally you do not have to bear his children or take care of his parents if you do not want to do so.

You have the same responsibilities as any other permanent resident or Canadian citizen. You are responsible for following the laws of Canada and the province where you live.
 
Your responsibility is towards the Canadian government, not your husband. You have to take actions to become self-supporting. This means that while you are being sponsored and your husband is taking care of your basic needs, you have to be finding ways to support yourself financially. Often, this means looking for work, taking English language classes, and learning about Canadian society. This will help you integrate into Canadian society.

I'm sure the American system is set up similarly and protects the Immigrant Wife!

http://www.lawforforeignbrides.ca/fb/

[UTRO]

Yeah, drives me nuts!

What drives you nuts.... asking Her for a new blouse or pair of shoes?!? 

[SMS60]

I would stop, step back and take a good look at your situation.

Using your description......................

First, you have doubts which should be enough to put things on hold. She has doubts which would be more of a reason to stop.

You have a young women who is extremely ambitious. She knows the atmosphere of your life.

You will be a mule for a women looking for a BBD

Stop, Look , Listen.

[ECOCKS]

What drives you nuts.... asking Her for a new blouse or pair of shoes?!? 

Huh?

You mean, "HER asking," I guess?

She won't go buy anything for herself.

[Ooooops]

How long is your husband responsible for you as your sponsor?

When your husband signs the sponsorship agreement, he promises to sponsor you for at least three years from the day you become a permanent resident.   


What are your husband's obligations as a sponsor?

The agreement is a promise to financially support you for a period of at least three years so that you do not need to access financial assistance through the government. If, for some reason, you do access social or government assistance, this sponsorship agreement means your husband has promised to pay the government for your use of its services.   
 
As a sponsor, your husband must provide you with the basic needs you require to live in Canada. This usually means supporting you financially, which includes providing you with shelter (a place to live), clothing, and food. It also means providing you with the means (again, financial) to receive medical attention that is not covered by the public health system should you require it (for example, dental care, eye care).   

It's 10 year sponsorship in US, if I'm not mistaken.   But it only refers to If, for some reason, you do access social or government assistance, this sponsorship agreement means your husband has promised to pay the government for your use of its services.    Shelter (a place to live), clothing, and food is optional, but can be used against you if they are inadequate.    

[UTRO]

Huh?

You mean, "HER asking," I guess?

She won't go buy anything for herself.

lol! Okay it went over your head ECOCKS Just twisting your words to make a feeble attempt at humour!  
I understand what you're saying.... she always asks, even though you don't want her to and have told her not to.

[ECOCKS]

Sorry, cabin fever while holed up in Denver waiting for the weather to clear and get on my way towards Idaho.

[HiTech]

I'm trying to figure that out too.  The best I can figure right now is that she wants something to promises I'll take care of her until we get married and she finds a job.

Which is it, worry before you are married, or after?

[Doll]

True enough in many cases, but I'd consider your advice to be ugly and humilating, also. In a nutshell, your consistent response is to blame the man, advise him to sit back and let his soon-to-be ex-wife help herself to anything she'd like, and then not interfere w/her attempts to get a GC.

If we can say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the same applies to ugly.

Wait a minute, what advise did I give? What is ugly and humiliating?

[Doll]

Doll, are you implying that the American government doesn't protect the FSU Bride?? I'm sure it can't be any different than Canada??

How does the US government protect RW? Don't make me laugh. If a husband thinks it is right for his wife to not have a penny - no governments will protect her.
This is what this girl (who wants the prenup ) is talking.
There  is a thread on a RW forum about it - go and read. This government won't protect me either 

[UTRO]

How does the US government protect RW? Don't make me laugh. If a husband thinks it is right for his wife to not have a penny - no governments will protect her.
This is what this girl (who wants the prenup ) is talking.
There  is a thread on a RW forum about it - go and read. This government won't protect me either 

Perhaps her only reference is indeed what happens in Russia and is turned Blind Eyed by the Administration, when a Man and Woman break up. I would be too. It's disgusting.

[roykirk]

I would stop, step back and take a good look at your situation.

Using your description......................

First, you have doubts which should be enough to put things on hold. She has doubts which would be more of a reason to stop.

You have a young women who is extremely ambitious. She knows the atmosphere of your life.

You will be a mule for a women looking for a BBD

Stop, Look , Listen.

Well, it's all moot now and I'm glad I didn't follow any suggestions to just dump her because she asked.  I brought up the point about the protections that are already built in to the K-1 process and explained to her how community property works here.  She was satisfied and let the entire matter drop.

[tfcrew]

It's 10 year sponsorship in US, if I'm not mistaken...   

This is correct.
Everyone should read or should have read carefully...

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-864.pdf

[siberia]

The reality is that it is not a 10 year commitment, I quote from your link at uscis.gov


When Will These Obligations End?
Has worked, or can be credited with, 40 quarters of coverage under the Social Security Act;
Your obligations under a Form I-864 will end if the person who becomes a permanent resident based on a Form I-864 thatyou signed:
Becomes subject to removal, but applies for and obtains in removal proceedings a new grant of adjustment of status,based on a new affidavit of support, if one is required; or
Dies.
Note that divorce does not terminate your obligations under this Form I-864.
If you do not provide sufficient support to the person who becomes a permanent resident based on the Form I-864 that yousigned, that person may sue you for this support.
Your obligations under a Form I-864 also end if you die. Therefore, if you die, your Estate will not be required to takeresponsibility for the person's support after your death. Your Estate may, however, be responsible for any support thatyou owed before you died.

The 40 quarters of work takes a minimum of 10 years however if they do not work full time for each quarter, it can take a longgggggg time. Everyone feels so confident that 10 years is it but reality is different.

[Doll]

  the protections that are already built in to the K-1 process

How? How is the wife guaranteed she will have money? The time before she starts working she might have not a single penny and if the husband decides she does not need something (clothing, food that she wants , etc) then he will not give her anything. Correct? Correct. What does it have  to do with the K-1 process?

[Faux Pas]

How? How is the wife guaranteed she will have money? The time before she starts working she might have not a single penny and if the husband decides she does not need something (clothing, food that she wants , etc) then he will not give her anything. Correct? Correct. What does it have  to do with the K-1 process?

What about this didn't you understand?

Has worked, or can be credited with, 40 quarters of coverage under the Social Security Act;
Your obligations under a Form I-864 will end if the person who becomes a permanent resident based on a Form I-864 thatyou signed:
Becomes subject to removal, but applies for and obtains in removal proceedings a new grant of adjustment of status,based on a new affidavit of support, if one is required; or
Dies.
Note that divorce does not terminate your obligations under this Form I-864.
If you do not provide sufficient support to the person who becomes a permanent resident based on the Form I-864 that yousigned, that person may sue you for this support.
Your obligations under a Form I-864 also end if you die. Therefore, if you die, your Estate will not be required to takeresponsibility for the person's support after your death. Your Estate may, however, be responsible for any support thatyou owed before you died.

Doll we have no guarantee that the sun will rise tomorrow however, the probability of it rising it very good. There are no absolute guarantees. Please tell me what kind of guarantees the lady has in Russian courts when her Russian husband leaves her?

[Ooooops]

The reality is that it is not a 10 year commitment, I quote from your link at uscis.gov


When Will These Obligations End?
Has worked, or can be credited with, 40 quarters of coverage under the Social Security Act;

That's right.   Government just doesn't want to be responsible for any financial charges that sponsored person may claim.   As soon as government feels safe from those obligations, you are off the hook.   

[Gator]

Has there ever been a case of a RW becoming a public charge for any length of time? 

Any RW I met had the skills and survivor instincts to stay above the level where her "means" would satisfy the criteria for means-tested public benefits.  What RW would choose to live among the poor just to receive public benefits?

I do not know about the Canadian law, yet the US Govt "protection" is minimal.

[GoodOlBoy]

Has there ever been a case of a RW becoming a public charge for any length of time? 

Good point Gator.

At least once a day the local TV camera crews are down in the Section 8 Housing Projects (low income/welfare housing) here in Miami covering some kind of tragedy (drugs, rapes, shootings, stabbings, murders, child abuse/neglect...etc.) and I can honestly say I have NEVER seen any signs of Russian Women living there! 


GOB

[Ooooops]

Has there ever been a case of a RW becoming a public charge for any length of time? 

Have you ever seen Antarctica?      But is still exists, you know...

Any "length of time" isn't necessary - one trip to ER will do it.

[Misha]

Has there ever been a case of a RW becoming a public charge for any length of time?

Define "any length of time." I knew one Russian woman who ended up leaving her husband. She had a small child who had immigrated with her to Canada and was on social assistance while she filed for divorce. I do not know how long she was on social assistance (i.e. a public charge) but certainly it was months, perhaps longer. 
 

[tfcrew]

 I did notice this on the FAQ Site...

Expiration of the I-864

No, the validity of the I-864, I-864 EZ, or I-864A is considered indefinite; beginning from the date the sponsor files it with either the National Visa Center, the U.S. embassy or consulate.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_3183.html
"..the validity.."
On my copy of the 864 [now 9 years old] ..I don't see this word 'validity'.

[Gator]

Have you ever seen Antarctica?      But is still exists, you know...

Any "length of time" isn't necessary - one trip to ER will do it.

Good point.  And a lingering disease could cost a million.