In Kharkov April 27 to May 24

[Doll]

I was discussing simply asking a few questions to be sure that the lady met the minimal requirements of the small personal ad, basically nothing by comparison...

And in the case with Mila, Azif and A what was or was not done by Mila?
My answer is- she did what she was paid for.

[Doll]

Are you aware that this is not the only service she provides? that the clients used her other service of placing local personal ads?

Yes, I am- I've just read what she is writing on her site.

[Daveman]

And in the case with Mila, Azif and A what was or was not done by Mila?
My answer is- she did what she was paid for.

Sounds good to me! 

Really, Doll, I would have been happy to seriously debate this topic 6 hours ago (and I tried), but after Mila's classy response, I've just lost interest.  I think we should let it rest.  At least I intend to do exactly that.

[Shadow]

Years ago when I was a young boy, we made a round trip through Bulgaria.
In the bus were two other Dutch couples who seemed to enjoy the trip.
Come the last day, when it was time to say goodbye to the guide and driver (and reward them for ther services  ). Suddenly the couples were complaining about the food, thatthey did not get an egg with every breakfast and that they were not given enough time to see the places where we stopped on the way.
They went as far as telling they would complain to the touroperator, which made my father write a letter to them in support of the guide.

Some people will not open their mouth for 10 days seeming to enjoy all, and when its time to pay the bills start complaining hoping to get a discount.

I don't know if this was the case with CC and Az, it just came to my mind as something I experienced first hand...

[CCowboy]

I'm sorry that it seemed I had abandoned my trip report.  I've read everyone's comments and appreciate what each had to say, whether I agreed with them or not.  I became involved in AZ1's report so all my comments are posted there and they should answer some of the questions I read.  There is really nothing more I have to say that I didn't say on AZ1's report.  I don't know AZ1 and I doubt if we will ever meet.  But I learned about AZ1 from Mila as she told of her experiences with him.  Why she told me of her experience with another client, I don't know.  I didn't ask Mila to tell me.  I do know that the money Mila returned was prepayment for English lessons for "A", which she apparantly was not putting out much effort.  Instead, the money was for "A"'s request for money for her sick son and he told Mila to give "A" the money rather than send it back to him.

Regarding people wondering if other RWD members know me?  I've met about 10 or so members going back to 2001.  Some were just one time meetings while a few have remained friends over the years.  I haven't asked anyone to vouch for my credibility or to say that I'm a good guy, and I won't.  I made my first trip, in 1994, married a UW in 1995, but the marriage did not last.  I won't write anything personal about why it failed.  Most of my trips have been during the past 3 years because I had the time and money to make them.  This was just my second attempt using a personal ad and I only had my previous experience as a guideline how they should be run.  I chose to use Mila because of her reputation on RWD and because of the strong recommendation of another RWD member.

I think if you read my posts on AZ1's thread, things may be clearer about the problems Mila and I had.  I have no intention to write anything more regarding my trip.  I think all that needs to be said by me has been said.  CC 

         

[erudite]

I joined this forum in December 2008. I have mostly lurked and read threads since then, but spent most of my time on another forum. I read this thread with interest because I have just finished spending 3 weeks in Kharkov with Mila as my guide and interpreter.  It was an experience that I enjoyed immensely and I will return in September.  Again Mila will be with me and I do not anticipate utilizing anyone else actually because my experience with her has always been good, mostly excellent.  She works very hard for her money and she will not deliberately mislead you.  She will save you some heartache, money and trouble if you listen to her.  Her age is not that much of a factor since she is very street smart besides being intelligent.  When you add ethical and honest to the mix, you have a great person to help you. I stayed in the same apartment that CCowboy stayed in I think and found it just fine.  The kitchen worked for me.  I don't dye my hair and I always tell a woman the basics.  Any relationship has to begin with honesty and all warts and blemishes need be acknowledged.  Any woman wants an honest man first.  Especially in Ukraine. So if you do not tell your age or real age, dye your hair, wear a support belt or elevator shoes, stuff a sock in your pocket, wear a wig, she is going to know this right up front.  Would you want her to not divulge her age or correct age, wear some sort of girdle that hides her gut and butt that you can sit a beer can on or who does not tell you that she has had a masectomy or is bald and wears a wig (I had that happen in the US and the bald woman killed the moment for me)? I am younger than CCowboy by a bit, but I have no trouble finding, meeting and attracting reasonable candidates who are in a wide age range. But I am honest and truthful with them from the beginning. Women usually know this right away.  And besides most of the men I have known personally that dyed their hair, you either could not tell it or they looked like an insurance salesman or an undertaker because the dye job was not so good.  Vanity is a good trait in a feminine woman, not a man.

[CCowboy]

Erudite,  Let me begin by setting the mood of this post.  You're an idiot.  First, it's been nearly a month since there's been any activity on this TR or AZ1's.  My last comment on either TR was June 5th.  I'm sure you're familiar with the saying: "Let sleeping dogs lay".  If you've been lurking since 12/08, you've had plenty of time to make any of the comments you made, except those regarding Mila.  By attacking me, all you're going to do is reopen a matter than has been thorughly discussed and long put aside.  Don't you wonder why no one posted anything after your post?  I'm glad you had a good experience with Mila.  I think it's reasonable to expect that after the negative publicity she's received, you or any of her clients are going to receive VIP treatment. 

With nearly 500 posts between the two TR, I seriously doubt you read every post word for word.  If you had, you'd know that from the beginning I did not accuse Mila of being dishonest or deliberately misleading, although I think it's very questionable why she would arrange a meeting for me with a 30 y.o. woman with a 7 y.o. child when she knew well in advance from e-mails and conversations that I would not be interested in such a woman..regardless of appearance.  The same applies to nearly every woman she arranged for me to meet from the ad.  But if you read each post, you already know this. 

Before arriving, I specifically told Mila I did not want a bed with two twin mattresses, especially with a large gap between them.  There are king sized beds and then there are twin mattresses that are presented as king beds.  When I'm in an apartment for a month, a good nights sleep is very important to me.  A well stocked kitchen is also important to me because I cook much more than go out...and Mila knew this well in advance.  Did you have rotten potatoes in the frig like I did?  This may seem trivial, but it doesn't take any time to open a frig to see if it's clean. 

Did you have internet in the apartment?  Although Mila had rented this apartment many times before, she knew it was already wired for cable ethernet....which is exactly what I requested.  Instead, she arranged her PeopleNet service which I later learned it was not her modem, it was not her account, and she had no idea what the cost would be for a month of internet.  By the time the owner of the modem took her cut, Mila took her's, I had 11 days of internet before the time expired.  My guess is that $20 of the $50 I paid went for actual internet usage.  I used PeopleNet before and this is why I specifically told Mila I wanted cable internet.  For $20-25, I would have unlimited internet for my entire stay.  The fact that the apartment was already set up for cable internet pissed me off.  Mila's excuse was she didn't know who the internet provider was.  It already had cable TV.  All she had to do was ask the owner, but she had made up her mind to make a few dollars with her PeopleNet.

Although some people have disagreed, I see nothing wrong with omitting my age from the ad.  I had sent Mila detailed information about myself including photos.  Mila was free to disclose anything about me, including my age.  However, based on the women I met from the ad, Mila did nothing to screen the women.  Otherwise, I would have never met the 30 y.o. and I would have never met several of the other women from the ad.  I gave Mila an age range up to 48 and I even agreed to meet a woman 52.  But besides age range, Mila was SUPPOSED to ask a woman's height and weight, if she had children, if she wanted children, and if she was a smoker or more than a casual drinker.  She did nothing except arrange a meeting.  So, I NEVER told Mila not to disclose my age...just to not include it in the ad.

As I've admitted before, I erred in not insisting to approve the ad before Mila placed it.  I also let my guard down and relied on Mila's reputation and personal recommendations.  I should have quizzed Mila in detail before agreeing to meet any woman.   She'd never had a client in my age range who placed an ad and she never had a client who stayed for a month...usually it was anywhere from a few days to maybe 2 weeks.  That's why I wrote in the TR that Mila the lacked the experience to be placing ads for men, at least that was my experience and a couple of other's.  Since you read both trip reports, I don't need to go into more detail.  On AZ1's report, I wrote a nearly day by day accounting of my experiences with Mila.

Before I wrote my trip report, I wrote to Mila and gave her advice on the things that went wrong with my trip and how to avoid these problems in the future.  I also told Mila I was going to write a trip report and some things she is not going to like.  But before writing it, I discussed it with several friends of mine and they felt I needed to be honest and accurate in my trip report because sharing both good and bad experiences benefits everyone.  They also felt I owed it to the RWD members....especially newbies  I've taken a lot of heat for what I wrote from several members  I could have easily written nothing or wrote about only the good and then let everyone who uses Mila's services have their own experiences.

With nearly 500 posts, Mila made a single comment threatening AZ1 and in the end of her comment, myself.  Mila never refuted anything I wrote because she couldn't.  She knew that what I wrote was the truth.  After I told her I was going to write more on my TR, this is what Mila wrote to me:

"Hi Robert! I am glad you got home safe and sound. Thanks for your letter, i know i did many things wrong as i have never dealt with a client like you. Sorry again. Can you do me a fvour, please, don't write a trip report, you have already wrriten one. If you want to write more, please, don't mention about all these stuff. It is my reputation and nobody was disappointed with me before.Do me a favour and don't mention bad things about me. If you do, then you are not a man. Thanks.

Mila

P.S: don't spoil my life, please, it is not easy."

By the time I received it, I had already posted the next segment of my report.  By then, the avalanche had already started.  Mila was invited to make her comments.  Some members were sure she would put me in my place.  Instead, she remained silent.  We use a term quite often called "Manning up" when a man makes mistakes.  If Mila had written something like she did above admitting that she made many mistakes, then I think the content of the TR would have been very different.  Instead, I was the bad guy and Mila was the innocent victim.  Mila made mistakes.  I also made mistakes that I've admitted to.  She didn't follow through with things we had discussed prior to my arrival...specifically relating to the apartment and the internet but especially with the ad and her failure to screen the women.  As I wrote in the beginning of my TR, Mila is young and inexperienced.  If Mila had admitted on RWD to the mistakes she made, it would have been better than remaining silent.

So, I have no doubt that you and future clients will be pleased with Mila's services.  After you wrote your post, I contacted Mila and told her I have no problem with clients writing positive comments about her.  But when in doing so I'm attacked, I will defend myself.  I also told Mila that if she is soliciting clients to bad mouth me, this thread is going to start all over again and it won't be in her best interests.  Ironically, the very next day JesterJohn makes positive comments about Mila with the disclaimer it was not solicited by Mila.

I stated in my TR that I would recommend Mila if someone needed to rent an apartment or needed a translator.  In fact, someone from another list asked about renting an apartment in Kharkov and I recommended Mila and gave him her contact information.  I didn't follow up so I have no idea if he contacted her.  I think I'm objective enough to know if Mila is someone to recommend for an apartment or as a translator.  Mila is an excellent translator and just because of my experience wasn't so good, it doesn't mean I think Mila is someone people shouldn't use her services.

Finally, there is one more issue, and that's why I think you're an idiot.  What makes you so high and mighty as to tell someone what they can and can not do?  Are you living in the dark ages?  I color my hair.  So what?  You think a man who colors his hair is effeminate?  You care to tell that to the Governator and many other celebrities, athletes, politicians, and millions of regualr guys?  Do you see the commercials on TV with Keith Hernandez and Emmet Smith?  Care to tell them they are effeminate and don't have the right to color their hair..or beards?  Frank Sinatra wore a piece as does Burt Reynolds.  Care to tell them?  So it's OK for a 65 y.o. woman to color her hair to hide the grey but it's not OK for a 65 y.o. man.  I suppose hair plugs are out too. 

WTF are you to dictate what someone can or can't do.  Flatly, it's none of your business.  At my age, most women I meet color their hair.  If a woman has a problem with me coloring my hair, don't you think it's hypocritical?  A woman coloring her hair in Ukraine is quite common...and for women of all ages.  I've even seen men in Ukraine who color their hair.  It's called freedom of choice.  I think before you criticize someone's freedom of choice, you'd better ask yourself if it's your right.  I honestly don't care if you or anyone else doesn't like it.  Think what you want but keep your thoughts to yourself, especially on a public forum.

If you had done nothing more except post how much you enjoyed working with Mila and plan to use her services in the future, I wouldn't have responded...just as there's no need to respond to JesterJohn.  I expect that Mila will be doing a good job with future clients with many positive reports.  Attack me in the future, and this thread will continue.  You may think you're doing Mila a favor by trying to discredit me, but you're not.   As was posted in the trip reports, there's only two people who really know what took place between Mila and me and everything else is speculation.  CC           
     



         

[facetrock]

  I dont think Mila asked Erudite to post. The reason I think that is because I asked her on skype. She was sending me some pics of women to me earlier and I asked her about it. She would have been very happy to let this thread die and said she knew nothing about the last post in advance.
  We had a lively debate and everything that needs to be discussed was discussed. Dredging it back up will do no one any good.
 I agree with CC. Let sleeping dogs lye.

[Boethius]

  So, I NEVER told Mila not to disclose my age...just to not include it in the ad.

Weasel words.

[Ade]

WTF are you to dictate what someone can or can't do.  Flatly, it's none of your business.  At my age, most women I meet color their hair.  If a woman has a problem with me coloring my hair, don't you think it's hypocritical?  A woman coloring her hair in Ukraine is quite common...and for women of all ages.  I've even seen men in Ukraine who color their hair.  It's called freedom of choice.  I think before you criticize someone's freedom of choice, you'd better ask yourself if it's your right.  I honestly don't care if you or anyone else doesn't like it.  Think what you want but keep your thoughts to yourself, especially on a public forum.

Actually, the fact that your didn't want you age included in the advert, the fact that you do dye your hair and, most importantly, the fact that you seem so freaking sensitive about these two things indicates that you should work on some of those self esteem issues and maybe come to terms with who you are, what your age is and what you look like.

Just a thought.

[Sculpto]

aww come on now SJ.. dont burst his bubble

[Ade]

aww come on now SJ.. dont burst his bubble

[erudite]

I was not even going to bother giving a response to CCowboy's posting, but after seeing others confirming what I already know, I will reply.

Mila never asked me to post or respond to anything CCowboy has posted, nor anyone else for that matter.  I do not make many posting on forums for the reasons that the truth of situations and personalities is hard for many to face.  But I will say that in reading the thread (and I did read all of it) before I posted something, it pissed me off that there was so much negative impact on Mila Lobunko and I found she had written a wonderful response to it herself.  

Since my experience with her service was great and I will recommend her to anyone in thier right mind, I decided to post a response that included my experience with her which was completely opposite of CCowboy. I did not post anything on the thread before my first post because I was in Kharkov having a good time and much too busy to bother with reading a forum I can read anytime on my own in the USA.  I did not waste internet time on forums when I was in Ukraine and I had internet at every single apartment I stayed in, including Odessa. I have a life and I enjoy it. I do not need the forum to make me feel fulfilled or happy. What is more I did not call CCowboy any names, which I easily could do as many come to mind, but I will leave it all lay and this will be the last thing I write in regards to this thread.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Wow, what a thread!

I will just say that I agree that both are to blame, inexperience on one side and unrealistic expectations on the other plus miscommunication between the two. At the end it's a good lesson for everybody. Yeah, this business isn't easy.

[Taz]

Actually, the fact that your didn't want you age included in the advert, the fact that you do dye your hair and, most importantly, the fact that you seem so freaking sensitive about these two things indicates that you should work on some of those self esteem issues and maybe come to terms with who you are, what your age is and what you look like.

Just a thought.

These are his choices and wishes. He was the client here and long as he doesn't do anything immoral, illegal or totally unethical, he has the right to do so. MANY women lie about their age in ads. He simply wanted his withheld as he had better success based on his past experience.

Dating is obviously more challenging when you are older. Someday we may all may be faced with this situation and I can understand the additional challenges he faces. Before someone wants to comment on someone's personal history and see SURE based you the kind of person you ARE, you will surely be looking for another partner, stop to think for a second that many older folks lose their partners due to death. I work with a very nice gentlemen who just recently lost his wife and now finds himself looking for love at the age of 63. He lived with his 3rd wife for over 30 years and she recently died. It has been a really difficult situation for him to start dating again. He is now considering searching for a Russian woman.

As for Mila it would have been much better if Erudite had started a new thread rather then resurrecting this one. I felt that while CC wasn't fully satisfied with Mila's services, in general he would recommend them with some caveats. Bringing this thread up just drags her through the mud again. I noticed that she was carefully reading each post before deciding and I had the sense she was trying to gauge public sentiment before ultimately replying. She did herself no favors by threatening to release personal information about people here if they crossed her. That was a pretty major mistake in how she handled this.

In general that should be a lesson for everyone here. The more PII (personally identifiable information) you give out here, the more likely some unethical person will use it against you or try and use it as a way to attack you rather than your argument. My sense was that sense Mila couldn't rebut what CCowboy had to say, her only option apparently left was to threaten a personal attack. The old kill the messenger if you can't kill the message.

I never had a major problem that the ad was screwed up, doo doo happens. CC trusted her too much and she screwed it up. They were both sort of to blame on the ad. Modem is a bit shadier as I've delt a lot with Internet there. She could have done more with the cooking utensils in the apartment but again no biggie. CC was pickier than most but I understood his piont. The threatened release of PII by Mila was the real deal breaker for me.

[Daveman]

CCowboy...

You wanna color your hair? go for it.  Who cares? I certainly don't... that being said...

you know, I can understand your being disappointed and posting about it.  However, posting Mila's private correspondence to you was inappropriate  (as was her threat to post yours) and a low blow.  Even if she were here posting something negative about you, which she isn't, private correspondence is just that. 

[Taz]

You have a point about this. I think CC's attempt was to show that he was right about this issue more than many people believed but I agree it was in poor taste. Private correspondence should remain private for the most part. If someone has threatend in a private message, then please by all means contact the moderators.

[Ade]

These are his choices and wishes. He was the client here and long as he doesn't do anything immoral, illegal or totally unethical, he has the right to do so. MANY women lie about their age in ads. He simply wanted his withheld as he had better success based on his past experience.

My comments were directed at the reasons behind his choices and those reasons may very well be at the root of his unrealistic expectations and his 3-5 year search.  

[Taz]

He apparently has done this in other local and had no issue meeting women. Based on his past track record, I don't think his expectations were unrealistic. Apparently he did this in another city and got a much better response from women when he omitted his age. I think he said he used the word mature or something similar to that. He got a lot more responses.

It is human nature to try and minimize what we perceive as possibly being negatives to the opposite sex. Women don't post what they think are their negatives front and center either. It goes with the territory so to speak. I think that they should be spoken about with the woman though in a very direct way and not hidden from her especially if they are material to the relationship. Age is definitely material for most people.