Ways my wife can meet new friends (especially RW) after arrival in America

[SANDRO43]

BTW a bord in Dutch is a plate, you will meet them a lot in Belgium.

What's the proper etiquette when one is introduced to a Dutch board ? Knock on wood ?

[Faux Pas]

My wife had almost the exact same reaction, after the initial euphoria wore off in a few months she longed to talk to Russian people her own age who understood her jokes, cultural references, and who had dealt or were dealing w/the same sort of homesickness.

It rings true and completely understandable. It is something I never even considered (truly) how it must be for them until I saw it turned inside out. The guy had a real loneliness. He emailed back home and had english speaking TV, he told me that equates to living in a glass bubble from something you crave. He and his wife are very much in love and communicate well but it was still missing it. Ironically enough they met and married in the US and then went to Siberia to live.

[Ooooops]

BTW a bord in Dutch is a plate, you will meet them a lot in Belgium.

And Smörgåsbord is the most dangerous of those board species!   

[SANDRO43]

And Smörgåsbord is the most dangerous of those board species!   

But that's Scandinavian, not Dutch .

The Swedish word "smörgåsbord" is a word consisting of the words smörgås ("open faced sandwich") and bord ("table")....a type of Scandinavian meal served buffet-style with multiple dishes of various foods on a table. In Norway it is called koldtbord and in Denmark it is called kolde bord. Smörgåsbord became internationally known as Smorgasbord at the 1939 New York World's Fair when the Swedish Pavilion offered Smörgåsbord at the "Three Crowns Restaurant" there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smörgåsbord

[Ooooops]

But that's Scandinavian, not Dutch .

Don't be a stickler...   

[Shadow]

What's the proper etiquette when one is introduced to a Dutch board ? Knock on wood ?

Depends on if you are selling, buying or getting fired. 

[mendeleyev]

What they claimed was a woman named ______ used Russian Ukrainian social groups to find AM/RW couples and break them up. I have heard variances of this through out America. Something to keep in mind.

The Phoenix group was at one point one of the most active in the USA. I was a board member for several years and one of the few non-Russians to have held office. A woman did come in and use the group as a feeder for her non profit group of "rescuing" women from AM. In the eyes of many this "shelter" gained a reputation as having defrauded the women as well after the shelter's attorneys stripped lots of assets away from the western husbands. Unfortunately they have the reputation of being "pros" and once their claws are into a RW/UW the man is screwed.

The woman had herself gone thru a high profile divorce herself and then her exhusband from Russia joined her. Soon thereafter some would say that this male's connections with the Russian mafia brought in a whole new "feel" to the Arizona Russian community. These days the Phoenix and suburban police forces have a special task force to deal with Russian mafia issues.

The cultural group, formerly hundreds of members strong with a very active social agenda each month, was ripped to shreds and disbanded in spite of it's long history.

Phoenix has several Russian Orthodox churches, a Ukrainian Orthodox church, a Ukrainian Uniate Church (Eastern/Roman Catholic), and the Jewish community was able to bring in their own Russian rabbi as well. There are at least 4 well known Russian markets one of which is more of a supermarket, and other Russian restaurants and varying businesses from housewares to hair/beauty salons to jewelry to car repair. It's just not a united community as it was formerly. There is a Phoenix Russian yellow pages with thousands of listings and ads and those are available at the markets. There is a weekly Russian newspaper/magazine also available at the markets.

I ride the Metro train most days commuting and hardly a day goes by that I don't hear Russian being spoken either in AM or PM commute. Go back to my Russian mafia comment and take note: be careful with whom you make friendships. Do it, but let it happen naturally, individual by individual, and don't force it just because the other person speaks Russian.

The markets and those publications and posted announcements are a great way to start slowly. Eating at one of the Russian restaurants once in a while might not hurt either. My wife has met most of her American friends at church (we are both Orthodox) and via her work as an artist. Even with both of us spending significant chunks of time in Russia these days we have some very close Russian couple friends, over time developed individually and carefully.

[mendeleyev]

Pardon me for posting again but perhaps I can lend some insight from having worn "the other shoe." When I first moved to Russia it was working for an American company but in a Russian affiliate. There were basically two groups with whom I interacted most frequently: fellow journalist broadcasters at Radio Mayak, most of whom speak a variety of languages including English and loved to practice it, and a group of Western journalists who primarily spoke English although they represented just about every Western nation. Speaking English was so common that it was easy to be a crutch and looking back I allowed it at that time to retard my Russian language abilities, something I am bent on perfecting these days. It would also be a mistake for your wife slip into a Russian language world here and stunt her English abilities.

After getting married about 18+ months later my wife went out of her way to introduce me to just about anybody who spoke English. She meant well. But once you've lived in a place for awhile you no longer feel the need to "cling" to someone just because of language. I came to realize that I had very little in common with a English speaking businessperson from say, Eastern Canada or deep south USA, when my frame of reference was West Coast America. Other than speaking English, we might have absolutely no basis for a friendship.

Eventually my wife and I agreed that we were better off making friendships in Russia starting from her natural circles of influence and from my work. We stopped "forcing" the issue. Not only was that the best course of action, but my Russian abilities have grown and flourished because of it. She has great friends and the vast majority have welcomed me into their hearts as if I was family. When in the USA she started with my circle of friends, added more from church and from her work. Living in two places has it's difficulties but genuine shared friendships make it a little easier.

Is it possible that your wife doesn't need Russian friends as much as she just needs friends?

[GQBlues]

Like my wife, I too went through the experience of immigrating to this country, and both my wife and I agree with everything in Mendeleyev’s post. Undeniably, there’s a momentary ‘comfort’ in meeting people who speaks your tongue when in a foreign land, but the notion of creating friendship simply because of this is frankly over-rated IMO. In more ways than one, it does stun people’s acclimation process.

Call it the ‘Latino’ syndrome.

Midway through the first month’s subscription to Russian TV, my wife asked if we could stop the subscription.

The same dynamics can also be seen with AM/RW couples. Having married a woman from Russia doesn’t always guarantee you full compatibility to becoming friends with other couples in the same pairing you do. More times than not, you realize you really have nothing in common both from your perspective/interest and your wife's perspective/interest.

Strike a balance in your attempt to aid her adjustment period.

Of note, a lot of Russian immigrants who settled into the US that didn’t arrive here by way of K-visas actually snob those who did.

YMMV.

[ECOCKS]

Thank you for the post Mendeleyev, very informative and deeply appreciated.

Aside from the drama associated with the women leading others astray the language issue is the only thing that leads me to discourage a rush to find a Russian buddy for my wife. I know my wife hates being the translator for small groups of Russian wives of expats and has seen too many examples of what happens when those crutches get in the way of the learning.

What happened to that woman who was the provaceteur among the Phoenix group? Someone posted the links to two news specials about her but I don't think there was any comment as to the outcome of whatever investigation they were doing.

The similarities to Scott's comments were there to consider as well. The FSUW legend continues to grow.

[Aloe]

Of note, a lot of Russian immigrants who settled into the US that didn’t arrive here by way of K-visas actually snob those who did.

seems like this is the same everywhere, especially from the guys, on the forum i go to for russians in belgium, most of the guys look down on all the women and call them a name they made up just for such women, and say stuff like "how our women desperately lay down under belgians". I think they are jealous haha.

[groovlstk]

Aside from the drama associated with the women leading others astray the language issue is the only thing that leads me to discourage a rush to find a Russian buddy for my wife.

I'm always curious and more than a bit skeptical when I read posts from jilted men complaining that their wives left them in part because of the influence from her Russian friends. I'd be willing to bet she wasn't all that dedicated in the first place and her friends enabled her to do something that was inevitable. A jilted guy always avoids looking in the mirror for the source of her discontent and will do backflips to avoid admitting she never loved him in the first place. It's always easier to blame some external source over which he had no control.

FWIW, there's a fine balance between men who wish to "help" their wives assimilate and those who think they are being the prototypical strong man (that RW supposedly love) by forbidding their wives to watch Russian programs on TV or make Russian friends.

I have plenty of admiration for those who can discipline themselves to avoid fellow expats or influences that might slow down their assimilation - on the flip side, I have disdain for anyone who'd try to force his wife or fiancee into befriending people he deems more "appropriate." (And FYI, I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of this, simply I've seen this position advocated here in the past).

My wife looks to me for guidance in many areas of her life, much moreso than any American woman I dated in the past. But she's been making friends since she was a child and doesn't need my help or interference in that area. FWIW, it's quite possible her English would be perfect after two years in the US had she avoided making Russian friends, but she'd certainly be less happy without this small island of stability - and for those of us who did K1s and got a crash course in the ups and downs of cultural and geographic adjustment, it's a weighty consideration.

[Misha]

call them a name they made up just for such women

You have piqued my curiosity. What is the name? Feel free to write it in Russian.

[Aloe]

You have piqued my curiosity. What is the name? Feel free to write it in Russian.

it's not so bad i guess, белгожены, and they call belgians белги и бельжики, but sounds disrespectful to me and not uncommon to be used in disrespectful manner, but it looks like other people picked it up and sometimes use as a common word, i just don't like it, it is often used to generalize women, like, what do you expect from a белгожена? Or if somebody asks about problems in their marrige, they always joke about how she only wants to rip off "poor бельжик" or get passport, only because she came to belgium because of marriage, while all the topic starter  did was ask advice about some kind of situation. Sometimes very inadequate answers there.

[Blues Fairy]

But once you've lived in a place for awhile you no longer feel the need to "cling" to someone just because of language. I came to realize that I had very little in common with a English speaking businessperson from say, Eastern Canada or deep south USA, when my frame of reference was West Coast America. Other than speaking English, we might have absolutely no basis for a friendship.

Excellent observation.  
I agree 100% that sharing a common native language is a very weak basis for a friendship.  There's a sizable Russian community here in NC, but after visiting their forum a couple of times I realized I have zero interest in meeting any of those people.

[Misha]

I agree 100% that sharing a common native language is a very weak basis for a friendship.  

Yes, it would be comparable to going out in a Russian city and picking people at random and expecting to become friends with them.

[ECOCKS]

I'm always curious and more than a bit skeptical when I read posts from jilted men complaining that their wives left them in part because of the influence from her Russian friends. I'd be willing to bet she wasn't all that dedicated in the first place and her friends enabled her to do something that was inevitable. A jilted guy always avoids looking in the mirror for the source of her discontent and will do backflips to avoid admitting she never loved him in the first place. It's always easier to blame some external source over which he had no control.

So, you are skeptical with regard to the Phoenix gal (she's a helping hand and not a chaos agent then?) and that people like Scott and the guys in the TV clips are not facing facts?

[Ooooops]

Yes, it would be comparable to going out in a Russian city and picking people at random and expecting to become friends with them.

No, it's rather like this - The Voice of the City   

http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/O_Henry/The_Voice_of_the_City/Squaring_The_Circle_p1.html

[mendeleyev]

So, you are skeptical with regard to the Phoenix gal (she's a helping hand and not a chaos agent then?) and that people like Scott and the guys in the TV clips are not facing facts?

Ed, the negative reaction by the Russian community in Phoenix towards that "shelter" would give you a clear answer on that. I've not seen the TV show in question so don't know much about the men interviewed.

[ECOCKS]

Ed, the negative reaction by the Russian community in Phoenix towards that "shelter" would give you a clear answer on that. I've not seen the TV show in question so don't know much about the men interviewed.

That is how the news clips made it sound.

Scott's story and some other things I have witnessed makes me a bit wary of some FSUW women married to expats I know as well.

[Maxx2]

 I've not seen the TV show in question

Part 1 http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play/929346/men_foreign_brides_accused_them_of_abuse_to_stay_in_us

Part 2 http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play/930799/grooms_say_russian_brides_coached_by_woman 

Some new brides seek out people like this woman in the second clip. Others are found and their unhappiness of their marriage is exploited. Some women find their new husbands are not the men they thought they were. Other women knew in advance that their husbands were never going to due but they married them anyway. Some women have perfectly fine husbands (like you guys  ) but have unrealistic expectations.   

A few years ago I have talked to all these men (and several more) in Phoenix. They impressed me in that they as a group wanted to expose this IMO racket.


Here is a link to a discussion where the Shield Foundation (Olga's organization) makes counter charges to the above TV clips.
http://www.alipac.us/ftopicp-898698.html


Maxx

[Misha]

My wife is especially looking for a source of films that could provide American (Hollywood) or European-made films with Russian dubbing (soundtrack). 

If she wants to watch some movies via computer, limon-online.ru has an excellent selection of dubbed American movies. Warning: you will get some dubious pop-ups, so better to have your pop-up blocker on, but it serves its purpose which is to watch the occasional movie.

[Journeyman]

As the originator of this thread, I want to thank everybody again for all their continued helpful ideas, suggestions, and interesting comments.  I think that this discussion could be useful to many people in the future.

Journeyman

[MarkLeftTX]

We may be in the minority, but we never found Russian friends to be particularly helpful or desirable, as a rule.

As Viktoriya put it to me once: "Why would I hang around a bunch of women that I wouldn't be friends with in Ukraine just because they speak the same language I do?"

Most of the Russian/Ukrainian women we knew who would hang around together and go places all the time together did so because they had bad marriages and didn't want to be around their husband. Not all. But most.

There were a couple Russian women that Viktoriya actually liked, but most of them were just unhappy women who used to hang around and bad-mouth America and Americans. If the men could actually know what their wives say about them (in Russian) their hair would stand on end.

If you really want to find ways of hooking your wife up with those kinds of women... good luck...

YMMV...

[KenC]

Just FYI, Lena always resisted going out of her way to meet other women from the fsu too.  She eventually did make some friends from the fsu, but did it over time and in a more natural way as she met them in the course of daily life.
KenC