Ukraine vs. Russia, Pros and Cons?

[BrianW]

Anyone have an opinion on which country is better to visit in this process?

I was thinking of going to Odessa or St. Petersburg next summer? Thanks.

[ECOCKS]

Re: Ukraine

Pretty B&W considerations would be:

No visas required for entry.

Cheaper.

Easier to get around in.

Language the same.

Subjective opinion:

Women are just as pretty but I stop short of saying the same (see below).

Attitude is a bit more pro-western and less exposed to the propaganda.

As for Odessa, city has a pretty open feeling to it. Between the tourism and city's position as an international port with lots of history, there is a fairly friendly atmosphere there. A million or so folks makes it big enough to be big, but not so big you cannot walk around the main areas or get where you're going relatively quickly.

Enjoy!

[Sculpto]

finally we agree on something

[Gator]

Visit for women or for travel experience?

IMO St. Petersburg is the best travel mecca in the FSU  (architecture, museums, entertainment venues, ease of walking around, restaurants, etc.).  In fact, I found more to do in St. Piter than Moscow.  It is also one of the most visited cities (lots of "ugly" tourists).

Years ago I found it not easy to fly to and from St. Piter.  After that I went there twice by overnight train from Moscow.  That was a breeze.

Ukraine's not requiring a visa eliminates a pain in the ass with traveling to Russia (and the fees of $200 or more).

What are you planning to do about meeting RW/UW?  Agencies?  Correspondence?Many St. Petersburg women are sophisticated.  Are you?

If you want to meet the people and have an experience I would suggest that you go to smaller cities than Odessa and St. Piter.

[Turboguy]

As far as great cities to visit and enjoy sightseeing those two would be among my top choices.   As far as places to try and meet women they would be the absoulte bottom of my list. 

If your goal is to meet a good woman I agree with Gator, go somewhere else.   Anywhere else is better except Gary Indiana.

[Doll]

Where is Gary Indiana?
Sightseeing is better in St Petersburg
Women are same

[Ooooops]

Where is Gary Indiana?

You don't wanna know, trust me...   

[I/O]

Pros and Cons?    Population numbers would suggest 2 - 3 times the number or "Pros" in Russia vs Ukraine and 2 - 3 times the number of "Cons" also. I found Ukraine slightly "Easier"  but ended up marrying a Russian. 

I/O

[Doll]

I don't know any substantial difference between Russian and Ukrainian women, the latter seem TO ME a little more stubborn and it just seems so. They both are stubborn and smart 

[Faux Pas]

I have never been to Ukraine. When I started to look seriously for women to meet I considered the entire FSU with emphasis on Ukraine and Russia. Quite frankly, I didn't at the time know or think there was much difference. I still don't. I didn't give much consideration to the logistics of travel at the time. If I had, I wouldn't have met my fiancee.

I ended up going to Russia on my first trip and hit it off wonderfully with my lady and have made a number of trips since. Russia has a visa requirement which can be a pain in the butt, but it isn't really a big deal. Just another document to be obtained and another added expense. During all my trips to Russia I have found it easy enough to negotiate  (this includes 2 large and 1 sizable city) with little and few problems.

Brian if you are going to meet a specific woman, I would say go where you find her. If you are going to meet a lot of women I would probably recommend Ukraine as it seems to be more of a cottage industry there. More accommodating agencies for this type quest it would appear.

If you are at all curious about Russia and enjoy seeing some of the truly great sights of Europe I would suggest St Piter or Moscow. Personally I preferred Piter over Moscow but I enjoyed Moscow as well. Piter is a wonderful place to meet a specific lady and also a good place to "wing it" and meet the locals. I found them very approachable. Unless you are a social leper, you can't help but have a great time in Piter whether you are with someone or alone.

[Ooooops]

I'm half Russian - half Ukrainian (mother - father).    But I also think that I've combined the worst of those two halfs...   

Anyway...  back to the question - what kind of qualities are looking in the future wife?   Something purebred of puppy mill?    Hair color?   Ability to cook?   Childbearing? 


Sorry, people, but when I read posts like that it just ticks me ...    Sounds like somebody's going to pick up a prise cow and asking which country produces the best one... 

[Doll]

Ooooops , let them go (shopping)! 
They'll see very soon there is no difference between AW and R(U) women.
God bless their hearts! 

[Faux Pas]

I'm half Russian - half Ukrainian (mother - father).    But I also think that I've combined the worst of those two halfs...   

Anyway...  back to the question - what kind of qualities are looking in the future wife?   Something purebred of puppy mill?    Hair color?   Ability to cook?   Childbearing? 


Sorry, people, but when I read posts like that it just ticks me ...    Sounds like somebody's going to pick up a prise cow and asking which country produces the best one... 

Come on Ooooops. The OP made no reference as to the puppy mill scenario. I thought he asked an honest question about one's opinion of which country is better to visit for the pursuit. You might need to understand most men on this forum don't actually go to Ukraine or Russia for the architecture or the culture but in fact to see and meet the ladies 

He wasn't at all specific in his motivations. You could have been assuming his was going to discover the history of the Lada as much as hitting the puppy mills from the little information he provided. 

[groovlstk]

Anyone have an opinion on which country is better to visit in this process?

I was thinking of going to Odessa or St. Petersburg next summer? Thanks.

You should concentrate on the individual women you are in contact with whom interest you, that should determine where you plan to visit - not cheap airfare, cities with Western amenities and services, or those rumored to be home to many single women.

Your question is very open-ended so forgive me if I'm reading intentions that are not there, but if you're looking for the easiest and fastest way to find a "good wife," you're going about this ass-backwards. Treat this like a trip to Kmart and you'll end up with Kmart quality - and there are no warranties or exchanges.

Ukraine is definitely easier to visit as a tourist if you're from certain Western countries, but if your goal is to find someone to spend the rest of your life with then the visa issue is not even a footnote in your long-term plan (and by "long-term plan" I don't mean marriage, I'm referring to the work you'll have to do just to get to the serious relationship part). Don't mean to scare you off, but there are so many obstacles, speed bumps, and pitfalls to this endeavor and those who look for the easiest path are likely to fail, IMHO.

[Ooooops]

Ooooops , let them go (shopping)! 

That's exactly the root of my problem with it...   :evil:

[acrzybear]

OOOOppps

You worry to much, from what I have learned during my travels is that the professional daters will use him and make him feel good and the serious ladies will chew him up if he does not have his act together.

 I am 6'5" , in charge of 12 type A personalities and carry a gun for a living but even I don't want to pi$$ off a FSU lady 

My approach has always been to discover the country and make friends, so far it is working out fine.  If I meet the right lady then I will change my focus and concentrate on the possible relationship, but until then I will just continue to visit my friends and have a good time with them.

[Ooooops]

 I am 6'5" , in charge of 12 type A personalities and carry a gun for a living but even I don't want to pi$$ off a FSU lady 

 


I, being a Moscovite, still spent a lot of time in the country during my school brakes - 10 summers in almost total wilderness in northern "taiga" - horse riding, mushroom picking, hay cutting etc.    So now I'm like an Indian guide we go off-roading - I know what to eat in a forest, how to make a fire, etc...   

[acrzybear]

I, being a Moscovite, still spent a lot of time in the country during my school brakes - 10 summers in almost total wilderness in northern "taiga" - horse riding, mushroom picking, hay cutting etc.    So now I'm like an Indian guide we go off-roading - I know what to eat in a forest, how to make a fire, etc...   

You would fit in just fine here in Texas 

[Ooooops]

You would fit in just fine here in Texas 

I know and I did - for 2.5 years, Dallas and Houston.       And you know what my favorite band is?   ZZ Top!   

[Turboguy]

If you dig back into some of the old polls or surveys done here it might open your eyes a bit.  I have not seen them for a while but I do remember what they said pretty close.

There was a poll a while back that asked where everyone was going to meet their potential dream girl.

About 65% , or more, of the men were going to Ukraine.  I am sure the ease of travel was a big factor in that.

There was another poll back somewhere in the same time frame asking where the married guys and engaged guys had met their mate. 

About 60% had met their SO in Russia and about 30% found thier success in Ukraine.  The other 10% or so was other FSU countries.

It seems to me if you think about what those two surveys tell you then Russia is the obvious choice as the best place to go.   If most of the guys are going to Ukraine and most of the guys who have luck have that luck in Russia then the percentages of finding a really great woman are far, far better in Russia.

[HiTech]

It seems to me if you think about what those two surveys tell you then Russia is the obvious choice as the best place to go.   If most of the guys are going to Ukraine and most of the guys who have luck have that luck in Russia then the percentages of finding a really great woman are far, far better in Russia.

Turbo, this is a classic example of how statistics can be miss used.  The numbers you showed do not say that if you choose Russia, you will have a better chance of meeting a woman. The stats really say that of a random sample of men , the men who choose Russia were more success full. You have cause and effect mixed up, the effect is choosing Russia, and the cause is these men are more committed to finding some one.

The reason for this is most likely that because Russia is slightly harder, the men who went there vs the Ukraine were more likely to find a wife in general (They were more dedicated to finding some one), I.E. if these exact same men went to the Ukraine they would also have a higher percentage chance of finding a wife.

HiTech

[Sculpto]

If I had it to do over again..

I would have followed up my first month long trip to Donetsk with an even longer one.. either to the same city or some other city...

If you are in a place a long time you WILL meet some amazing ladies and one, or more, of them will rise to the top.

All this corresponding crap was at first to keep myself interested and I let myself get suckered in by the fantasy peddlers.

A 2 week trip isn't long enough to do anything but have a vacation though.  It will be hard to meet women who will take a man seriously in such a short time.  So, writing in advance makes sense.  Given that scenario I would still pick one place and concentrate on ladies from that place.  I would not promise ANYTHING and would inform anyone I was corresponding with that I was coming to learn Russian, and, I would enroll in a Russian language course so I wasn't sitting around waiting for my next date who might or might not show up.

That said.. I liked Odessa.. maybe it was the Jewish vibe in the air.. the Italianesque architecture.. the Ukrainian rasta/hippies that showed me around the music/underground scene... or all the above.  Plus, it is a manageable sized city.. and the little flat I stayed in was only $35 a night and right on Ekaterinaskaya one block from the walking street.

[jdk1963]

Turbo, this is a classic example of how statistics can be miss used.  The numbers you showed do not say that if you choose Russia, you will have a better chance of meeting a woman. The stats really say that of a random sample of men , the men who choose Russia were more success full. You have cause and effect mixed up, the effect is choosing Russia, and the cause is these men are more committed to finding some one.

The reason for this is most likely that because Russia is slightly harder, the men who went there vs the Ukraine were more likely to find a wife in general (They were more dedicated to finding some one), I.E. if these exact same men went to the Ukraine they would also have a higher percentage chance of finding a wife.

HiTech

Judging from the questions asked Turbo is correct. 

Where do you plan on going 65% Ukraine
Where did you meet your mate 60% Russia 30% Ukraine

If those in fact are the questions asked then the cause and effect is not as you claim.  Granted there is information missing.  That does not diminish the fact that more men are successful in Russia than Ukraine.  What it tells me is that the women in Russia are more committed to finding a mate than in Ukraine.

All this corresponding crap was at first to keep myself interested and I let myself get suckered in by the fantasy peddlers.

I half agree.  I think corresponding is important and not crap.  There is no way I am going to know in a short amount of time if a particular woman is right for me.  That will take more than one trip.  I can thin the herd through correspondence.  On the other hand you are open to abuse and exploitation from the fantasy peddlers.

[Sculpto]

Judging from the questions asked Turbo is correct. 

Where do you plan on going 65% Ukraine
Where did you meet your mate 60% Russia 30% Ukraine

If those in fact are the questions asked then the cause and effect is not as you claim.  Granted there is information missing.  That does not diminish the fact that more men are successful in Russia than Ukraine.  What it tells me is that the women in Russia are more committed to finding a mate than in Ukraine.

I half agree.  I think corresponding is important and not crap.  There is no way I am going to know in a short amount of time if a particular woman is right for me.  That will take more than one trip.  I can thin the herd through correspondence.  On the other hand you are open to abuse and exploitation from the fantasy peddlers.

Personally I think it is a bit harder to determine the sincerity of ladies from Ukraine simply because the economic situation there is so much rougher than it is in Russia.  That might be a factor in the statistics.

Crap may not have been the right word.  But, I wasted enough money corresponding to have paid for a ticket.. I wasted so much time corresponding that I could have financed the in country expenses of an extended visit simply through economizing during the time spent. 

Bottom line remains.. pick a place.. and/or some ladies.. and get on a plane.

[Doll]

I am telling you, guys, one more time- there IS no difference in your case. None! RW and UW are same. If it comes to sightseeing though St. Petersburg is way better.