Ukraine vs. Russia, Pros and Cons?

[groovlstk]

Groovstk doesn't speak to my situation though I don't doubt he is correct in some situations. 

Ronnie, my apologies to you or anyone who interpreted my post as applying to all men here, particularly those who are married. That wasn't my intention.

I base my observation on the reasons that most new guys post in their intro here about why they've given up on local women. There are all sorts of goofball reasons on why they can't find a local GF (my fave was the guy who claimed that local woman on his dating website didn't believe he was for real because he was too good to be true  ).

I wouldn't knock a fully grown man for pursuing what he believes will provide happiness, but I respect guys (like Thor) who are at least honest with themselves about their motivation.

[Sculpto]

Sculpto, why didn't you pursue a woman in France or Italy or Spain, then?

You may not be consciously aware of it, but the economics of Ukraine and Russia are a major factor in why women there are eager to meet Western men.

Groov.. i first got involved with the FSU because of geneaology.. got hooked on the ladies after a cultural visit.  I was once involved with a French woman.. she made the American women I had dated look wonderful.

[Stix]

Sculpto, why didn't you pursue a woman in France or Italy or Spain, then?

You may not be consciously aware of it, but the economics of Ukraine and Russia are a major factor in why women there are eager to meet Western men.

But again isn't it a myth that most of the women in Ukraine and Russia are seeking western men or are even inclined to leave their home country? In fact one of the more disappointing topics we've discussed on this forum is that many of the women who advertise that they are seeking western men aren't really serious about it.

[ECOCKS]

I think that is a fair statement Stix. Most don't think about it seriously anymore than the little boys, who eventually will grow up, wanting to become policemen, firemen, fighter pilots or soldiers. It gets a lot of publicity but I suspect many of them are amused 9not exactly in a negative way). Out of 3-4 dozen married expats, I know of none who have ever mentioned that any of their SIL/BIL are also expats. I have one Russian BIL out of three, so maybe he would sort of count as an expat legally, but culturally no one here thinks of it from day-to-day.

[groovlstk]

But again isn't it a myth that most of the women in Ukraine and Russia are seeking western men or are even inclined to leave their home country? In fact one of the more disappointing topics we've discussed on this forum is that many of the women who advertise that they are seeking western men aren't really serious about it.

I agree with this, but relatively speaking, there are a good number of women who are interested and willing to relocate in comparison with Western countries w/stable economies. I don't get spammed by MOB agencies pushing Swedish women or Italian women. What else, besides economics, explains this?

[groovlstk]

Groov.. i first got involved with the FSU because of geneaology..

Yeah, and I looked at the photos of nekkid Pygmy chicks in National Geographic when I was 8 because I was interested in broadening my cultural horizons. 

got hooked on the ladies after a cultural visit.  I was once involved with a French woman.. she made the American women I had dated look wonderful.

Again, whatever your reasons are, young and beautiful women are receptive to your advances primarily as a result of economics. I'm not saying that most women are out for your $$ - As an example, guys like GOB point out that Russian men are often scofflaws and alcoholics - whether you agree w/that or not, their plight is rooted in economics, not bad parenting.

[JR]

As George Putnam used to say, "Follow the money trail."

Immigration, by whatever means, happens primarily for monetary considerations. From the illegal alien swimming the Rio Grande, a Ukrainian beauty marrying an old Austrailian man or the Sudanese seeking asylum in Britian instead of Kenya, people tend to migrate to where the money is. I am not speaking about race, religion or political beliefs, certainly people uproot for those reasons. Aside from those specific reasons I am talking about a general movement towards a financially brighter future.

There is a lot of evidence for this position in that the Immigration is largely uni-directional. You don't see Americans sneeking across the border into Mexico tp find a better living. And you don't find Canadian men seeking to marry a Chinese woman so he can live in Nanchang.

Obvioulsy there are exceptions, like Aloe who happened to fall in love with a Belgian. But even she may have said to herself, "If he doesn't have a job I'm not going." Most women will tend to incorporate into their search criteria the ability of a man to provide properly for a family. How many women state they are looking for a "man who needs/wants me to support him financially?" I haven't seen one.

[Sculpto]

Yeah, and I looked at the photos of nekkid Pygmy chicks in National Geographic when I was 8 because I was interested in broadening my cultural horizons. 

Again, whatever your reasons are, young and beautiful women are receptive to your advances primarily as a result of economics. I'm not saying that most women are out for your $$ - As an example, guys like GOB point out that Russian men are often scofflaws and alcoholics - whether you agree w/that or not, their plight is rooted in economics, not bad parenting.

Groov, if in my case I had any money or equity to speak of that might be true, but, I dont and my girl knows it.  Being more or less broke is a great way to sift out the gold diggers. 

And, despite your tongue in cheek remark.. I went to Ukraine because of interest in the culture.  I had vacation time due and had been planning to go to Mexico when my Mom called and informed me she had found the name of her grandfathers village in Galicia.  I lost a weekend on google looking at maps and finally found the village which no longer exists.  It was located between Lviv and the modern Polish border.  I started reading about Ukraine, saw MOB sites and thought they were a scam and decided to go to Donetsk because I found an article that spoke about Donetsk being against the Orange Revolution.  You all know I am interested in politics and liberation movements and I was fascinated by the fact that Donetsk is a very big city and there is so little information about it on the web.  Stoked my curiosity and I chose to go there.  While I was there the ladies were obviously gorgeous and unlike the unfriendly shrews in SF when i smiled they smiled back.  I was hooked and understood i had good chance to find what was missing from my life if I put some effort into it.

My continued attraction to Odessa and Crimea is totally because of Jewish history.  My GF has never been to Ukraine and I will at some point vacation with her there because I am still interested, especially in the Odessa connection.  I will never know for sure but it is pretty certain that my ancestors walked those streets at some point.  At some point in the future I will also get myself to Kiev for the same reason as my Mom was able to locate the origins of additional ancestors and one side of the family lived either in Kiev or very nearby.  Not all of them came to the US.  Some stayed behind.  I have ghosts in Babi Yar almost certainly.

[groovlstk]

While I was there the ladies were obviously gorgeous and unlike the unfriendly shrews in SF when i smiled they smiled back.  I was hooked and understood i had good chance to find what was missing from my life if I put some effort into it.

Sculpto, you sound a little like the protagonist in Everything is Illuminated

Again, I'm not knocking you, but I would have to say that those gorgeous girls who were smiling back at you wouldn't have done so if you looked like a Russian man and not a foreigner.

[Sculpto]

Groov.. I blend in very well.. people were really surprised when they discovered I am not Russian/Ukrainian.  I had a lot of fun playing with that.  I would simply sit on a  bench in the park and people would come up and politely ask in Russian if they could sit.  I would answer them in English, sorry I don't speak Russian but please sit down.  I made tons of friends doing that and in not one occasion did anyone suspect I wasn't local.  Donetsk doesn't get a lot of visitors to begin with so its not like people were on the lookout for foreigners.  I just looked like an average local enjoying the sunshine.  Same thing happened in Moscow all the time.  Its really funny when Russians would come up to me on the Metro and ask directions and get the "ni gavorite pa ruski"... And I would get the same in Italy.. Spain.. France.. even in Mexico City.. like I said.. I am really good at blending in.. its an art.    The only time I visited a place and didn't blend at all was in Belize City.. and well.. I just can't pull off black. 

[Ooooops]

Perhaps the best part of this site is that RW themselves come here (each for their own reasons) and demonstrate the broad cross section of women one can expect to find in the FSU.  There are all kinds examples evidenced here - from the conceited, ignorant and insolent to the gracious, thoughtful and caring.

Ouch!   

[Ooooops]

And was the answerer I gave to many AW as to why, when they said I should look at home. I would simply give them the following.

1. I want to meet a woman who wants to have children.
2. I want to meet a woman who does not already have any children.
3. I want to meet a woman who has not been married before.
4. I want to meet a woman who I am attracted to.
5. I want to meet a woman who's primary motivation is not wealth.

So, you are saying that you were looking for a young woman?   Or old beautiful spinster will do?   

[Ooooops]

My FSU wife is not nearly as physically attractive as the my former wife (AW) from whom I made the difficult decision to part.  Nor is she as attractive as another AW that sought a relationship with me after my divorce.   

Another OUCH!!!   I hope your wife doesn't read this forum!!!   

[HiTech]

So, you are saying that you were looking for a young woman?   Or old beautiful spinster will do?   

The younger the age lower they would be on my scale.  But obviously they must be young enough to have children.

I truly believe beauty is in the eye of the beholder,so saying someone must be beautiful is a meaning less statement in my view, but I absolutely I must be physically attracted to who ever I would have considered. 

[JR]

Another OUCH!!!   I hope your wife doesn't read this forum!!!   

That's exactly what I thougt too....Oh no! Now I want Oooooops

[Ooooops]

But obviously they must be young enough to have children.

Modern medicine works miracles...       So, let say 38-42 is OK for you?

[Ooooops]

Oh no! Now I want Oooooops

How about punch on the nose?   :evil:

[Sculpto]

 

[Bored1]

You sound to me to be very intelligent but also very naive which  equates to very young. I do not mean this in any negative light but, if you'll only believe a man, no matter Russian or American can only love you for your youth and beauty, you will likely be in for many disappointments in your life. 

That is not what I try to say - I try to say that if they are only attracted to my femanine then they should not try to hide that fact by dishonest comment about being attracted to other things to validate that position.

A mans who want me only for beauty and health is not a mans for marrying to my brain.  But if that is all the mans sees then it is dishonest to say the mans see more than this.

It may be that is all I see in the mans also which is not enough to marry him.

[Ooooops]

Bored1, do you mind if I point some mistakes in your English?   I know, that I wouldn't mind myself, actually I'd appreciate somebody telling me about the mistakes I do in foreign language versus sweet-coating it and saying "you're doing great!" when I'm not.   

[Bored1]

It would be good.  A reason I joined was to make it better.  I do not write English fast for chat rooms yet.

[Ooooops]

It would be good. 

OK, then      First of all, you should have some proof reading program installed, that does spell check.   It weeds out the mistakes and also makes you to memories those mistakes (that if you waht to do it  ).   Second, may I ask you how you learn English?    Tapes, DVDs, friends...?

[Bored1]

Music and TV and through works.

I had some lessons 2 years ago.

[Mir]

My continued attraction to Odessa and Crimea is totally because of Jewish history

If you have not read them already I recommend writings by Isaac Babel.

[Aloe]

Modern medicine works miracles...       So, let say 38-42 is OK for you?

how about a 60 yr old woman who froze her eggs when she was younger, she can still have a baby via surrogate mom