Kharkiv (Jan - Feb 09) - My experience so far

[facetrock]

   Very possible she might lose a few men that have no business being there or a few sex tourists.  But then again she might gain alot more. To give some generic Walmart type answer will do nothing to please anyone. She is a small business and everything comes back to her. She showed she has guts and is not afraid to lay it all on the line to defend her name. She showed what all FSU women desire in a man. Sometimes in life its better for you to stand up and meet the shi$ flying through the air face first.
   If I go to Kharkov I would want a woman like that on my side.
 

[Daveman]

I waited before I responded to this thread because I wanted to see just how big of a hole Asif dug for himself.  You see, I was in Kharkov at the same time as Asif and knew about some of what was happening with him because Mila was helping me as well.    Now I will freely admit that I have a bias toward Mila.  She introduced me to the future Mrs. GB.  However, there are definitely lies of omission in your story, Asif.  Some of which have already been exposed by others.  I will just say that Mila and her husband went out of their way to look out for your health and safety and made sure that you made your flight home and leave it at that.

GB

     

     

GB,,  now this is a curiosity piquing twist. Some questions please if you don't mind answering...

did you actually see what transpired? how exactly did you learn about these lies of omission or Az1's situation at all? Did someone actually discuss *his* situation with you?  How do you know what Mila and her husband actually did to look out for Az1's health and safety? What exactly did you witness first hand as opposed to being told?  What is the confidentiality policy you were quoted or given prior to using the services yourself?

You were there and he was there, at the same time, but did you actually interact with Az1 in any real context?

[GoodOlBoy]

I find it interesting that member's of RWD are ready to COMPLETELY accept the word of someone (Az1) who has been registered here a couple of month's......

But yet when somebody like GoodBrew (a 3 YEAR RWD member) steps forward and begins to reveal the "truth" about this whole scandal........

Some of the RWD faithful want to tie GB to the "whipping post" and interrogate him and put the bad mouth on Mila for defending herself???

And if that isn't enough, we actually have member's who think Mila should come on this forum in a contrite manner....admit her "guilt" and "beg" forgiveness for something she probably never did to begin with (talk about bad business practices)!!

This IS a very strange forum, with a very strange group of people. 


GOB


BTW....I believe that the only 2 "discrepancies" here are Az1 and CCowboy.

[Daveman]

I find it interesting that member's of RWD are ready to COMPLETELY accept the word of someone (Az1) who has been registered here a couple of month's......

But yet when somebody like GoodBrew (a 3 YEAR RWD member) steps forward and begins to reveal the "truth" about this whole scandal........

Some of the RWD faithful want to tie GB to the "whipping post" and interrogate him and put the bad mouth on Mila for defending herself???

This IS a very strange forum, with a very strange group of people. 


GOB

Now that's a very strange interpretation of my post there GOB.  Where exactly is the whipping post?

I would like to know exactly what was witnessed as opposed to what was told, and what, if anything, is represented as confidential.  It does make a difference.

[facetrock]

  Daveman, I seriously doubt Mila has some kind of form she gives out stating her confidentiality rules. I know of no agency or interpreter that does and in Ukraine it would be as good as toilet paper anyway. But I do think we are jumping to a few conclusions here. We really dont know what Mila would post or how revealing it would be. Maybe it would be just a point by point retraction.

One thing I do believe is all the things Az1 is whining about could have been cleared up while he was there if he would only have had the balls to say something, same with CCowboy. To toss grenades at Mila from a public forum where you know that it will hurt her reputation and expect her sit by and do nothing while you destroy her is a little much.

Mila has taken off her bra and is threating to lob two grenades at once and I think right now Az1 knows it and is ready to sign a peace accord.


  

[Sculpto]

I think guys from the west just assume confidentiality is the norm.  I can tell you though.. from lots of different conversations with customer service on different agency sites.. forget it!  No such thing.. its really easy to get them to talk about other men, in specifics with identifying information.

That is part of the fundamental problem when civilians decide to go into the matchmaking business.  They simply are not qualified. 

[JR]

 Daveman, I seriously doubt Mila has some kind of form she gives out stating her confidentiality rules.

I am sure she doesn't. But it is a western expectation and by openly breaking that and then going so far as to threaten to post their names and exploits on the internet for anyone to google and read...well a lot of western men will just look elsewhere to spend their money. Encouraging her or defending this behavior will only hurt her business.

[Daveman]

 Daveman, I seriously doubt Mila has some kind of form she gives out stating her confidentiality rules. I know of no agency or interpreter that does and in Ukraine it would be as good as toilet paper anyway. But I do think we are jumping to a few conclusions here. We really dont know what Mila would post or how revealing it would be. Maybe it would be just a point by point retraction.

One thing I do believe is all the things Az1 is whining about could have been cleared up while he was there if he would only have had the balls to say something, same with CCowboy. To toss grenades at Mila from a public forum where you know that it will hurt her reputation and expect her sit by and do nothing while you destroy her is a little much.

Mila has taken off her bra and is threating to lob two grenades at once and I think right now Az1 knows it and is ready to sign a peace accord.


  

I agree entirely there that this could probably have been very easily cleared up with some communication while there.

I also doubt very seriously that there is a contractual confidentiality agreement on paper somewhere, or enforceable in a court system somewhere, but I think those questions are absolutely valid and should not offend anyone.

I also haven't given any personal opinion of either Ccowboy, Az1, or Mila for that matter.. I've asked questions and raised points. Nothing more nor less.  

Did you ever see that movie about the young kid who played chess? I can't remember the name of it right now, but there is a catch phrase "Don't move until you see it... don't move until you see it..."   While perhaps only a phrase of a movie, there really is great value in the underlying reasoning and lesson in pragmatism.  

[Ravens9273]

There is alot of talk about customer service and confidentiality. However when two people are dragging Mila's name through the mud this is a whole different story and she should stand up for herself. What happen here is far beyond a normal customer service situation. Two individuals possibly told lies (many here picked up on this) and adzagerated the truth (also many here picked up on this).
Now for Mila to have kept silent here reputation would have been ruined. Now it is being said if she opens her mouth she will be ruined.
I have been taught one thing in life. If you want to push me down I am going to go down fighting.
There is a time when customer be damned and the gloves come off.
This was a case where two customers pushed it to the limit and as stated above under false pretenses.

Mila made the right choice in her post. She did not expose them. (Sorry I do not feel saying Robert is exposing. Million Roberts in the world).
She warned then if they continue with the lies she will expose them for who they are.
In all honesty I would have done the same. No business should sit there and just take slander if they know it is not true.
By the fact that one dog has already tucked his tail between his legs and ran when the cat came into the yard says all about this person and his comments. At the present the other has also become silent.
This would give anyone the feeling they were full of it with what they wrote.
Do you really think Mila should bend over and take Slander?
Personally I say good for her and lucky for them she did not do to them what they did to her.
If it were me. I would not have been so nice.

[facetrock]

Ravens I dont think anyone could have said it better. 100 percent agree. Great post.

[Daveman]

...
This was a case where two customers pushed it to the limit and as stated above under false pretenses.

...

Again this begs the question... what *exactly* were the "false pretenses"?  And how did you draw that conclusion?

Sometimes excellent people drop the ball in specific situations for various reasons - spread too thin, not enough time to do a job thoroughly, etc... How do you know for sure that this was not the case with the situations of these two individuals?  

The real issue here as I see it is that none of us were there.  Someone post up some real information without personal attacks, smoke screen deflections, emotional knee jerks, and it'll become a very interesting discussion.  So far I see a lot of hot air flow in all directions without any real substantive value.

I still would have zero problem at this point using the services of Mila; nothing which has been put forth thus far could not be countered with initial in depth communication prior to launching the campaign (for lack of a better term).  

[Ravens9273]

Daveman,

I respect your posts.
What I wrote was Possibly because others determined this. I am not saying I determined anything. I did not want to come across that way. I explained how others here felt they were not being completely on the up and up.
Also Mila knows what happened. Only 3 people honestly know the truth.
Mila made comment they were telling lies.
My point was Mila knew truth and felt she was being slandered. In this case she has right to defend herself for what she knows is the truth.
I will not say what happened. I do not know nor was I there. I do have my opinions but will keep it at that. An opinion.
My post came more from Mila's prospective in the fact she knows what truth is. If she feels she was slandered and the way the slander was being presented. I as her would have stood up for myself.

I will admit that the way AZ1 responded then ran, and CCowboy became silent after Mila's post I would believe Mila now more then them. But as stated this is my opinion.

[Taz]

Hello Asif. I've been reading this thread and i was very offended by the lies you've been saying here. I will let this whole matter drop and fade away into the forum. But if you make one more negative comment about me, i'll tell my version of what had happened. I will hold no details back and get very personal, because as far as i am concerned, you have made this thread personal by attacking my character. I will give a chronological event from the time you arrived and from the time you left and I will also include the events that took place with Anna after you got home.
Some of you here might think this is very unprofessional, but where I’m from in Ukraine defending myself is a matter of pride. Asif, it is your choice, this will be your decision as to what direction this thread takes.
P.S: Robert, I know you are reading this and the same applies to you too.

I don't know Mila and I don't care to after reading this. Who in their right mind would use someone after they post something like this? Being in business means sometimes you have to take l your lumps along with the profits. It is obvious she shows a lack of wisdom in her response here. Shame on the rest of you for encouraging her to do something tantamount to professional suicide. This is something similar to attorney-client privilege.

Not every person is going to have a good experience every time. It is important to hear about the good as well as the bad. It seems there is a common theme in this thread and CC's thread. It reminds me of the failure of other people to post the negative about another translator in Kharkov. His services started to decline but he coasted on his reputation for a long time before people finally stood up but and started to post about what was currently happening.

Maybe Mila is too busy and can't service her client's as well as she should. Some clients will be more difficult than others. It goes with the territory. When you go into business, there are no guarantees you'll only get good clients to deal with. Mila's threat to release personal details about her client shows a total lack of professionalism and I would make sure every one I know to be sure to stay away from terps like this.

While I don't know all the story this one post of Mila's alone was enough for me to definitely lose any respect for her. She should have done the smart thing and remained above the fray rather than to "call out" her clients. She has everything to lose and almost nothing to gain.

If I were Az in this situation. I'd call her bluff. He has nothing to lose compared to her. She raised the stakes to a level that wasn't required and went all-in on a hand she can't win. Az can walk away and that will be all but her reputation will be besmirched for a long time if she follows through. She has done more to tarnish it herself with that one post than almost anything CC or Az said about her.

As an aside to Goodbrew's comments carrying more weight than Az, why would he piss in his own pool? If he were to say anything against Mila now, she could potentially sabotage his relationship with his woman. He would be a fool to do this when he has so much to risk. Based on Mila's post I quoted above, it doesn't seem like a stretch to say that she'd try and interfere with Goodbrew's relationship if he did bend to her will. Just musing out loud here.

FYI- the 1000 grivna table bill seems like a rip-off. I think he got shafted on that one. I've been in similar situations and never spent anywhere near that amount.

[GoodOlBoy]

As an aside to Goodbrew's comments carrying more weight than Az, why would he piss in his own pool? If he were to say anything against Mila now, she could potentially sabotage his relationship with his woman.

Now this post is REALLY bizarre!!

Why would GoodBrew post anything at all?

What is his motive?

Are you saying that the "evil" Mila forced GB to come up here on RWD and post something nice about her......

And if GB didn't post something nice, the "evil" Mila was going to sabotage GB's relationship with his girl?

Do you also believe there was another man (2nd shooter) in the grassy knoll (JFK)? 


GOB

[facetrock]

  So what is Mila to do? She posts she loses business. Was she just to sit by and let Az1 and CCowboy ruin her?  I really believe Az1 would have put more heat on her if she wouldnt have responded. Many here were starting to doubt his bull*snip* story and he really had no other option than to hammer Mila somemore in my opinion. Taz you want to talk about revealing personal information? It was Az1 who posted private emails from her. Doesnt he have any obligation to her privacy, or is it a one way street.
  I think your wrong that and her post will ruin her business. I give anyone credit for standing up for themselves when they feel they have been slandered.
    In the world of small business when you get slandered by a customer you fight back. They sure as hell wont be your customer any longer so you might as well go down swinging and protect your reputation as much as possible. Ravens understands this concept clearly.

She is not Walmart where losing several customers doesnt mean squat. And I really dont think Goodbrew is any way at all concerned about Mila sabotaging his realationship
   

[Taz]

GOB- it is pretty obvious based on Mila's own post, she isn't above threatening others to get the desired action she wants. She would have been more intelligent to take it offline and contact Az directly than to post her threat here. Her immaturity is showing here. Her lack of experience with older clients in the other thread (CC's).

So...if could follow that she could contact all past customers and ask for their "assistance" to rally the troops in support of her. If she had a little "dirt" (which almost all terps likely will) she could use that as a bargaining chip. I've spent enough time in the FSU to know how business often gets "done".

I'd be willing to make a substantial wager that once these threads (CC's and Az') started that Mila most likely started contacting past clients asking them for their support or something of the such.

If you are alluding to that I am conspiracy theorist, guess again. I have enough life experience to know that Mila isn't as clean as she portrays herself to be nor is Az as without fault as he maintains. If Mila made a mistake, she would have been better to just own up to it, learn from it and move on. I didn't get the sense that Az was trying to character assassinate her in the first place.

I have no skin in this game so it doesn't really matter that much to me. I did learn however of one terp I will think twice about before recommending to anyone I know. I would never ever recommend someone who might divulge (or even threaten to divulge) personal information of a client. That is an unforgivable sin!

[Taz]

  So what is Mila to do? She posts she loses business. Was she just to sit by and let Az1 and CCowboy ruin her?  I really believe Az1 would have put more heat on her if she wouldnt have responded. Many here were starting to doubt his bull*snip* story and he really had no other option than to hammer Mila somemore in my opinion. Taz you want to talk about revealing personal information? It was Az1 who posted private emails from her. Doesnt he have any obligation to her privacy, or is it a one way street.
  I think your wrong that and her post will ruin her business. I give anyone credit for standing up for themselves when they feel they have been slandered.
    In the world of small business when you get slandered by a customer you fight back. They sure as hell wont be your customer any longer so you might as well go down swinging and protect your reputation as much as possible. Ravens understands this concept clearly.

She is not Walmart where losing several customers doesnt mean squat. And I really dont think Goodbrew is any way at all concerned about Mila sabotaging his realationship
   

Sometimes opening your mouth (keyboard) causes you to lose more business. I don't think 2 negative posts are going to ruin her. This isn't the ONLY forum on the Internet. I don't agree that Az should have posted those emails BUT SHE has a bigger responsibility to NOT DO IT! She is the professional providing the service here. I truly think some of you are blinded by loyalty to Mila. I don't know her nor do I know Az.

I don't oppose Mila standing up for herself but the THREAT is a major faux pas!!! She can stand up for herself in other ways. I work in a VERY client sensitive area. My reputation and that of the company I work for must be 100% above reproach with no possibly appearance of impropriety. If I were even to threaten to divulge client info likely my butt would get sued off or I'd be in court so quick the ink on this Internet page wouldn't be dry.

As a "professional" (if you want to call her conduct that in this instance concerning the public threat) she should (and must be) held to a higher standard! Do any of you really get this? What if you attorney sold you out because you said something he didn't like? As long as he doesn't slander her, I have no problem with what he says. She however must be held to a higher standard.

[facetrock]

  Its amazing how high of a standard Westerners hold other people to while at the same time we think its perfectly acceptable to come to a public forum and trash someones reputation and then expect no retribution.
But so far Mila has not released any private information other than Asif and Robert and I dont think she will even if she does answer.
Taz,You think Az1 should call her bluff. Maybe thats all it really is. We wont know unless she posts again.

[Taz]

I don't think anybody should "trash" a reputation. I do think that you should post both the good and the bad when it is encountered. It is often people remaining silent about the good or giving too much the benefit of the doubt. Without data points we can't spot any trends. If Az is legit and telling the truth, then he deserves to be heard. Ditto for CC.

I don't believe that they should randomly shoot off their mouths without having their ducks in a row. If they do have accurate info then I'd like to see Mila's rebuttal rather than her threats. Her threats make her look childish and unprofessional at the very least. She can provide her rebuttal and do it in a high class way and possibly gain clients rather than driving them off. In general CC didn't speak that badly of her other than the ad. The continued attacks on him did more to muddy the issue rather than provide clarity.

If everyone attacks the dissenting voice, who will dare to speak up? It is obvious that many here think Mila is the "golden girl of RWD" or something akin to that but even the best make mistakes. What if she did screw up here? My buddy JD had this same sort of experience with a terp from Kharkov who had a sterling reputation until he used him. I found out later that other people had recently had a bad experience with him and the service was slipping. Nobody wanted to speak against the "golden boy" for fear of getting gutted like Az and CC have so far. What if they are right and her service has slipped? If so they are doing everyone a valuable service. Instead many hear attack the messenger rather than listening to the message. It is no wonder many people don't like to post on forums such as this and only lurk...

If they are wrong then time will show it. I am sure we haven't seen the end of this mess yet. I do hope Az comes back and lays the cards down and we get to the bottom of this. I have no doubt CC will likely do the same. What does he have to lose?

This is a lesson Mila hasn't learned yet. The most dangerous people in life are the ones with nothing to lose. I don't Az has as much to lose as Mila in this and I think CC has nothing left to lose in this scenario. Based on that Mila is playing for much higher stakes now. She raised the ante now she better be willing to "woman up" if her bluff is called. She has put herself in a corner with that threat where she can almost only lose with a slim chance of winning.

[Ade]

I agree with both Taz and (mostly) Daveman.

In addition, I find it strange that more people aren't raising a stink that members have stated they explicitly requested to not to meet certain women (e.g. women with kids) and Mila seemed to totally disregard their wishes or at least not put any effort into vetting the women. Regardless of what you think of their criteria, Mila was being paid to provide a service which she doesn't seem to have performed very well.

And guys, Az1 is a young 27 year old guy so cut him a little slack. Seems to me some people are being less than objective about these posts. I wonder if that would be the case if Mila weren't so hot. 

[Taz]

I agree with both Taz and (mostly) Daveman.

I wonder if that would be the case if Mila weren't so hot. 

Is that her real photo in her avatar? I didn't know she was hot. I didn't know she was hot. That changes everything! I of course take back everything I said and bow down before her beauty...

Oh Mila, I am not worthy. Please forgive my transgressions and calling into question your professionalism and judgment. I should have known better. I will know better next time. Please don't punish me by taking away your avatar... I wish to gaze upon it a wee bit longer

So now we have a new rule, you can't question the judgment of "hot terps". Is that commandment #11 now for RWD. So who decides what terp is hot? Does the terp in Dnepro, Armina, count as hot? I vote yes. Let's have a "hottest terp" contest. I vote for Armina based on her avatar. I LOVE her eyes! 

[Mir]

I'm with JR here. Mila (and her business) looked best silent.

I disagree.
If someone who used her service posts things on the board against the quality of the service she will lose business as well.
She should defend herself but in a non-confrontational way.
Instead of threatening she should ask the reasons for clients's unhappiness and give explanations for why she did what she did.

[Daveman]

I wonder if that would be the case if Mila weren't so hot.  

Actually it would... and I really don't understand why.  I remember a thread a couple of years ago where Kuna dared to be disappointed with the service rendered by a guy named Pavel I think it was.  Kuna presented his case in a point by point manner, giving specifics of when, where, how, and why -- without any personal attacks that I could see (from my more objective perspective - without a dog in the hunt).  The outcry against this thread was truly unfathomable with the Pavel supporters crawling out of the woodwork to sing his praises, completely disregarding the sincere validity of what was being posted.  In any event, I can't imagine Pavel winning the Hot Terp Crown in this lifetime yet at that moment in time he would have appeared to be the Messiah.

The same is happening in this thread... people are disregarding the validity of the perceptions and experience of those posting negatives and worse, posting personal attacks and insults rather than debating the real underlying issues of what could clearly be cases of poor service, or sour grapes.  Impossible to determine in a crossfire of insult.

Mila is also quite young, and I doubt very seriously that her "threat" carried any real potential of action.  No one could really be that stupid, could they Mila? no, I didn't think so.  I would say cut her a little slack about the threat as well.  I'm sure the call to arms of people wanting to see the brawl played a role in her bit of bravado.  She's a young lady trying to make a living and can learn a great deal from what has transpired here and turn these negatives into positives.  However, I still have the concern about Goodbrew's "facts".  The discussion of another client is an absolute no-no.  

[facetrock]

   Taz I respect your opinion, but Mila is not in charge of the next IMF loan to Ukraine, nor is she an attorney. She is not some Harvard MBA in charge of a million dollar company. She doesnt have a six figure salary, she doesnt even have a five figure salary. She is a young woman from Ukraine working for ten dollars an hour and I believe trying to do her best to help men. Ten dollars an hour to try to help some very helpless men meet a good woman. Does anyone get any of this?
  She is not getting rich. She has problably made mistakes and I would wager she would admit it if given the proper chance.

   Now a man like AZ1 shows up and becomes enamoured with a woman with a child. Exactly what he said he didnt want. He admitted she warned him about her. In the email he posted it shows Mila warning him that this woman is no good and just wants money. Everyone here with any experience at all knows what happened. Az1 did not like to hear Milas opinion because it wasnt consistent with his fantasy.  I think Mila was absolutely sick of this guy and was happy to be rid of him.
  Then Az1 chops down the money tree. Anna dissapears and somehow in his warped broken hearted psychology educated brain he looks for someone and anyone to blame.
   He comes to a public forum and starts trashing her. She bites back a little and many here jump all over her for not being professional.

You men who want a true professional, someone who is trained in this field, plan on paying close to 100 per hour to set up your dates and advise you. Thats what I would charge to put up with men that complain about pots and pans and no internet for a day or men who cant see a scam right before their eyes no matter how many times they were told about it. For ten bucks an hour we dont have much of a right to b!tch.

   But we know no one will pay that for a truly qualified matchmaker, not even men who claim money is no problem. Its to easy to just pay ten dollars an hour and expect miracles from our local homegrown interperter. And then if were not satisfied with her service lets stiff her on the bill, trash her on a forum. Who cares, and what can she do about it anyway.

  Do you think this doesnt hurt her? Do you think she enjoys seeing some men trying to destroy her TEN DOLLAR AN HOUR JOB. Do you think with the Ukraine economy in the toilet that this thread scares the hell out of her?

She is a product of her culture and our western business views are foreign to her. Isnt that part of the reason why we seek these women is because of the culture they come from?

  Az1 and CCowboy, are you both really so ruthless that you would try to destroy what this woman has worked so hard for? The deck is already stacked against this woman in her country. Just think what a woman like that could do if she had the chances we have here in the west.

  Mila doesnt work for some multi million dollar scam agency. I do not believe she trys to scam anyone. She works alone and has a small website. Mila is a young Ukrainian woman who speaks english and is doing her best to survive in a difficult society.

 

[ECOCKS]

Another city is heard from:

From reading this over and discussing a few choice parts on the PM circuit, my feeling is that the two posters told the basic truth with a bit of emotional inflation slipping in every now and then. None of the "inflation" seems serious and anyone that has ever worked a customer service position knows this happens frequently and its best to let them vent and wind down. It's also true that both need to accept the feedback from the board that if they expect to pursue FSUW they had better grow some thicker skins and understand that things don't always go according to plan in the FSU. The people there struggle with our concepts of accountability and responsibility which affects their whole interpretation of what we would call blame and control.

That said, I don't see much other than that Mila made a few missteps. No big deal, she's young and it's how you learn when you're an entrepreneur. Even Nordstroms and The Park Plaza have occasional negative customer reviews. CC particularly commented several times that despite the problems he would still use Mila's translation services and assistance. Nothing particularly negative or vindicative there. Az1 mentions the table issue and the similar situation to CC's with regard to not properly vetting some of the dates. I view this in the same light as my son insisting to me a week ago that it was true a Senator really did publicly suicide on at a press conference. He demanded to bet a $100. It was the State Treasurer of somewhere like PA BTW.

Young people get arrogant and cocksure sometimes, they make mistakes. Couple that with the reflexive defensiveness and insistence that they can NOT make a mistake which is  almost a national characteristic of Ukrainians and then read Mila's hot-headed threatening response, to me it adds up that Mila needs to learn more about communication and customer service while the westerners need to be continually on their toes that even an interpreter doesn't always understand everything you want.