Confused as to what to do - need advice

[MatryoshkaMan]

Hi all, this is my new user name, I am registered here under another name but decided to stop using it as it is the same as my Skype name that I have been using to chat with and well I am trying to be a bit low key just in case a certain someone ever happens upon this site...I hope you understand.

So here's where I am at - I started to look for a new RW in April. I contacted a bunch of women on EM and through the weeding out process I started to focus on a couple of women who interested me the most. As it happened I ended up chatting only with one woman and let the rest go (we are talking 2 or 3 other women at this point). I was having direct contact with all of these women by email - no agency was involved. So I went "exclusive" with her about 1.5 months ago, with me thinking she is just right and that I am more of a WOVO type anyways (a WOVO resulted in my first marriage to a RW many years ago).

She has a fierce jealous streak in her. She asked me several times in the beginning if I am chatting with other women and also if I would mention that I was seeing my ex for whatever reason she got upset about it. This is natural and I do not blame her for it. She was pretty firm that if I wanted to be with her I can't be chatting with others.

So fast-forward to where I am today and the reason for this post. We chatted on Skype for about a month before I made the first phone call. I wanted to call sooner but she always said she was afraid for me to call and that she was nervous about her English ability (which in fact is pretty good).

We had lots of long on-line chats - hours on end - but I started to get the impression that these were pretty one-sided conversations. Her answers are pretty brief and lacking in much detail or thought. At times it felt that I was having a conversation with myself.

So I decided to call her and we have chatted a few times on the phone. These calls are the same thing - I feel like I am having a conversation with myself! I ask all the questions, she gives very brief answers, giggles a bit and then I have to ask another question to kill the silence. I get the feeling that if I did not ask another question she would just let the silence run on and on. I thought conversations were supposed to be two way deals! It is so akwards that the calls are only a few minutes long and I find a reason to have to end the call. And also its usually late there and she is preparing to go to sleep (14 hour time difference).

It has gotten to the point that we are not chatting on Skype anymore (because we have moved onto phone calls at my choosing) but I am afraid to call to have another akward one-way conversation with her. I am really trying hard here to have a good long conversation with her but it is just not working. I am quite chatty and when I was recently dating a local woman our first phone call was about 5 hours so I don't think it is me that is the problem here....

So I am in kind of a bind. I am not sure about what is the problem. There could be a few things at play here:

1) She is just really shy (which she says she is) and is too nervous to chat with me (she has a lot of nervous-type laughter when she talks)
2) She is not into me at this point

I have no idea which is the correct answer!

I am not sure what to do at this point and that's why I'm looking for advice. I am not really willing to do an expensive WOVO trip into the middle of nowhere in Russia to meet a woman who I cannot even have a decent conversation with beforehand. Yes she is attractive and has a sexy voice but that's just not enough. She said all the right things in our on-line chats at the start but now I just don't know anymore..
If I go there to meet her and this continues in real life it will be a disaster for sure. It could just be that she likes me but cannot show it, is shy or just not a lively, full-of-life kind of person.

I have 2 choices at this point:

A) Just continue on with her and hope for the best and PRAY that in person things are better (I am going over to FSU in September).

or

B) Start chatting with other women and see what happens. If I tell her this it would be game over. I could do this without telling her but I would feel like a totall snake for doing it.

A is the easy choice at this point. B is hard, very hard, especially if I have to tell her that it is not going well between us and I want to communicate with others...

By the way I am in my late 30's and the women I am chatting with is in her late 20's and has a child.

Thanks in advance for the advice. I will read it all with interest.

[groovlstk]

I'd say it's way too easy to write off her silence as shyness - she may well be shy, but haven't you been chatting/speaking for months now? She's an adult, she should have overcome any shyness long ago. I'd go with B - all the women I dated who were into me were always eager to talk, had a torrent of questions - I'd never ever put all of my eggs in one basket if the woman is showing strong signs of indifference.

[MatryoshkaMan]

Thanks groovlstk for thethoughtful answer. I am afraid you might be right. Even if she is shy and not communicative by nature (better that than she is indifferent to me) I have to really ask myself is this the kind of person I can be with over the long term. I am a type-A go getter type and not passive at all. Perhaps she is just not what I am really looking for despite what I thought until recently.

If I was to go with Plan B and start communicating with other women do I have an obligation to tell her - because if I did it would be game over 100% with her. I already asked her what she would think if I came to Russia to meet her and possibly another woman and she flat out told me that she would not want to meet me in that case. I have to come to see her and her only.

My first time around it was so easy...WOVO and married in Ukraine 3 weeks later. Now that time has passed it all seems so hard to find a compatble and interesting RW!

[brucen36]

Why don't you just ask her the reason for her not talking more?  What's to lose if you're considering a plan B anyways.

[Shadow]

She has a fierce jealous streak in her. She often asked me a while back if I am chatting with other women and also if I would mention that I was seeing my ex for whatever reason she got all flipped out about it. This is natural and I do not blame her for it. She was pretty firm that if I wanted to be with her I can't be chatting with other for a while before we stareted chatting on the phone.

It is not natural, and you should make that clear.
At this point the two of you have never met and there for if she wishes to make her your only option she should be at her best behaviour. If you continue to make excuses for her, you will be used as doormat and walking wallet.

Make it clear to her what you do not like and that you have no obligations towards her until you met in person and decided to start a relationship, and that includes chatting, mailing and talking with other women.

If she does not accept this, let her go and find a woman with less issues.

[Ronnie]

It seems I could have written the original post, with only a few differences.

The UW who would become my wife, was not a shy person but was shy in my presence.  I had to initiate every dialogue and would often get short answers to questions and few unsolicited comments.  She also averted her eyes a lot.  After a week, I decided she was not into me and made the choice to move on.

I reconnected with her on her birthday several months later and learned that she was deeply disappointed that I had ended the relationship before it really got going.  I didn't drop everything and go see her right away but we did meet about a year after our initial meeting.  Still, no certainty in my mind so I again moved on.  Then 3 months later I was passing through her town and called her from the train station.  She told me to wait there and she'd come fetch me.

When I saw her enter the station and we made eye contact, I saw in her face for the first time a kind of joy, that had been previoulsy missing.  We were married in the U.S. 7 months later.

Jealous?  Yes, she was that too.  Shyness and jealousy can be the product of fear of looking bad - a common characteristic in eastern women.

It's been five years now and I'm pleased with the choice I made and (surprisingly) so is she.  She is not shy anymore and jealousy is no longer a factor.

I hope this helps.  Good luck!

[kievstar]

Some RW I have met want the man to do most of the talking.  They love to hear stories.  She may also not know as much English as you may think.  I have found that men need to speak more around RW than AW.
 

[MatryoshkaMan]

I think I will give it another week and if the quality of our communications do not improve I will have to flat out ask her why she is unable to communicate at some basic level especially since we have been at it for 2 months and she knows that I said goodbye to the other few women I was chatting with just to show her I was serious about her. I am hoping that it is not due to a lack of interest but rather to her personality which holds her back from really opening up until she meets me in person. Its the classic catch-22!! Nobody said this was easy and and I am realizing that now! WOVO is risky as hell. I don't get a lot of vacation time and money is an issue somewhat although the time is more of an issue than money. My boss grits his teeth everytime I ask for a vacation. So I really have to know before I go that everything is in place and there is a very high probability that we will hit it off in person just as we have in the months of constant communcations beforehand.

[Show Time]

Stupid newbie question:  What is a "WOVO"?

[Misha]

Stupid newbie question:  What is a "WOVO"?

Write one, visit one. In other words, find one woman that you really want to meet before flying to the FSU.

[Show Time]

Write one, visit one. In other words, find one woman that you really want to meet before flying to the FSU.

Thanks, Misha!

[Shadow]

Thanks, Misha!

If you need further help with acronyms, check the RWD Glossary

[Ronnie]

Its the classic catch-22!! Nobody said this was easy and and I am realizing that now! WOVO is risky as hell. I don't get a lot of vacation time and money is an issue somewhat although the time is more of an issue than money. My boss grits his teeth everytime I ask for a vacation. So I really have to know before I go that everything is in place and there is a very high probability that we will hit it off in person just as we have in the months of constant communcations beforehand.

If time is the major obstacle, then there is nothing you can do to make the probability high.  It will be, as you said, "Risky as hell." 

Didn't you say you already were married to an RW that ended in divorce?  The best route to finding a good match on limited time just might be E-Harmony.

[Sculpto]

E-Harmony.

SCAM!  Don't do it!

[Taz]

If you go the WOVO route, you better make sure you are pretty confident that all the eggs you stuffed in the basket is really the basket and eggs you want! Since there is no real commitment yet, it seems unreasonable to not write or speak with anyone else. To this point all you have is a virtual relationship and really nothing more. It can evaporate in a matter of seconds. I've have witnessed this first hand more often then I care to remember with friends.

Since your vacation time is an issue and to a lesser extent $$$,  you need to stack the deck in your favor as much as possible. This woman doesn't seem to be a good bet. I'd run away from any woman with a strong jealous streak. A little is fine but you haven't even met and she is already trying to control you. At least she should wait until she has put the wedding ring through your nose before trying to do that...

All the other things you mentioned seem to indicate the odds of success are pretty small with this woman. If she is on her "best behavior" now, I'd hate to see her worst. Thankfully I am not in your shoes and I can just play Monday morning QB.

[Gator]

Matryo,

A simple solution.  Call her again but use an INTERPRETER.  If your woman continues to be reticent in her own language, you have a reticent woman.  Based on the length of your post, that does not sound like your type of woman. 

 
The interpreter will also give you her opinion regarding your woman's personality.

I would have stopped further communication at the "fierce jealous streak."  Also, I never met a RW with whom I could not converse freely and spontaneously in an interesting manner on the phone (sometimes with an interpreter). 

If a WOVO trip gave you your now divorced ex-wife, why repeat a WOVO?

[MatryoshkaMan]

Thanks for all the replies guys. You guys are right, if at the 2 month stage the spark is dying on my side then its a real sign. At first we had long, engaging chats on line and I though WOW this woman is great and I forged ahead too fast and let go of the other few ladies that I was chatting with at the time and decided that (even a week into the process) that this lady was THE ONE. But then as the weeks have rolled past doubt has started to creep in...

She is not very conversive either on-line or on the phone. Several times I have remarked that I feel like a KGB officer during an inrerrogation as all I do is ask questions of her and all she does it give brief answers. I thought it was because I am a fast typer and we are using English but this lady is an English intructor and has a great command of English. I was excited to chat with her on the phone for the first time (after her putting it of for over a month - not tonight, I am afraid, I am scared, maybe you won't like my accent..etc etc.) but even that has not turned out very good.

The weekend that we were FOR SURE going to have our 1st conversation was Sat June the 6th. I texted her and she said don't call I am out. So I said let me know when you get home and I'll call then. Nothing. Repeat Sunday and Monday. Same thing, she is out 3 nights in a row exactly when she knew I wanted to call. Each of these 3 days I woke up at 6am my time to call her at 8pm her time. I was a little upset. She knew that I wanted to call her and that I was waking up early to do so. I really felt like she was avoiding me. I finally spoke with her for the 1st time Tuesday the 9th of June. We have chatted I believe 4 times after that first call. Each time has been 5 minutes or less. She litterally does not say a word and at one point I wanted to see if she would say anything and there was perhaps a 15 second pause on the line. Dead silence. How akward! So I had to chime back in and ask her another question. After a few minutes of this I have had enough and say goodnight to her.

Another thing that is rubbing me the wrong way is her sleeping habits. Any day that she has off work she sleeps in till 12pm at the earliest and sometimes till 2pm. Hell even if I am up to 2am I still am up before 8am. This is not a huge problem but I can't call her in the mornings on work days as she is getting ready and on weekends she is asleep till 12AM which is 10PM my time and even then she is still usually sleeping. So if I want to call her I have to wake up no later than 6am on the button because by 6:30am my time she says she is getting ready for bed (8:30pm her time).

Oh I am frustrated, I was so sure that I had found someone that I really clicked with. But now I am realizing I have been on a 2 month wild goose chase...

In regards to what Gator mentioned maybe this September will not be a 1 woman trip, perhaps 2 or 3. I am starting to think that WOVO is just too much pressure for me to stomach...I could easily go to 1 city and spend 3 weeks and meet 2 or 3 women. That would be a lot less pressure and leave me lots of time to spend with the woman that I click best with.

[groovlstk]

Move on, man. This woman is indifferent to you, you deserve better.

[Faux Pas]

Move on, man. This woman is indifferent to you, you deserve better.

No doubt. There is something very wrong with Matryo's picture. Phone conversations go a long way in solidifying some initial feelings, not the other way around. It stinks to high heaven. Are you sure you have the same lady on the telephone as the chat? I've heard of scammers where one works the online business and others answer the telephone.

[JR]

Or her boyfriend is in the other room

Dude, if you made prior arrangements to call her and she avoided it three times....you need to think about that. If she's in to you she should be anxious to chat and be full of questions for you. I smell fish...

[MatryoshkaMan]

She us not a scammer that is 100%. She is totally legit. I offered to send her money to pay for her internet cards and sms fees and she flat out refused (but I sent her some anyways - I felt guilty - yes I know, #1 commandment...). I guess I cannot accept that she is not totally into me (yes I have a big ego!).
I just talked with the "expert" ie my ex-wife (from Zaporozhye Ukraine). I explained it all to her and she is also saying that something is going on - most likely that she has decided that I am "not the one" but she is afraid to tell that to me. She told me that just previous to us starting our chatting that she was communicating with a Russian guy who lived in Israel for 2 full years and told him before they had ever met that "he as not man for me".
I have already re-activated my Elena's account and started the ball rolling again. I will not do anything witht he lady in question but she is now on the backburner pending future developments.

[ladyR]

SCAM!  Don't do it!

Why? I've met really nice people at this site, one of them already visited me three times .

Another question is that I'm not sure that their "scientific approach" is really good to find a soul mate, but to find friends - definitely. Plus it can be a very long process.

[Ooooops]

Move on, man. This woman is indifferent to you, you deserve better.

We don't know that.   All we know that she's reluctant to give explicit answers to "interrogating questions" about herself to a guy she's been chatting with for 2 months.    Well, some people are more reserve than others.   

Matryoshkaman, did you ask a lot of personal question when "had long, engaging chats on line" at first?   Or was it more about general stuff? 

[Zmejka]

We don't know that.   All we know that she's reluctant to give explicit answers to "interrogating questions" about herself to a guy she's been chatting with for 2 months.    Well, some people are more reserve than others

I think her being reserved looks like being indifferent and not interested enough. Ok she can really be shy or reserved but it's not constructive in international dating. Does she expect that any man would go out of his way to ask her questions, to keep the conversation and all she is able to produce is an image of answer. She doesn't try to work on herself, to change herself, to make other people feel comfortable with her - so why other people should care about making them comfortable for her? This should be 2-way communication - and if one doesn't understand it or does nothing about it - it becomes only one's problem, not a problem of another person.
I feel from the story that this woman is enough controlling while it's only chatting and nothing was promised to her - so either she has law self-esteem or for other reasons - but again that should be her problems to solve. If she's in the international dating she should work on the chatting, e-mailing, phone conversations to create a relationship out of it - seems she only takes what comes to her and doesn't go half her way. It says enough about her personality to me.
I think it's not neccesary to tell her that you'd like start chatting with other women - it's your choice and you're not dependant on her to make it. She can as well chat to others at the same time - may be she just hides it, you'll never know. You'll understand when you'll find a real one for you - how different it will be to this woman, i think she was given a chance but she doesn't want (can't) how to use it, i hope she can learn from it, but i doubt she really will be able to.

[MatryoshkaMan]

Thanks for all the thoughtful answers. One interesting point is that she knew that I removed my profile from the website where I met her but she did not do the same and in fact I just checked and its still there and she is likely still recieving emails. She told me she registered at a lot of sites and I did find her at another site after she pointed it out to me. So for the past 2 months I was cut off from all other options as I had voluntarily removed myself from the 2 sites I was using and she did not reciprocate (but did tell me that she was not communicating with anyone else).

I have not heard from her in 2 days. I leave the ball in her court. One thing that I am embarrased to admit is that I sent her $150 to buy a digital camera because she did not have one and I wanted regular photos from her - of herself, her place, city, family, etc. I know I broke a major rule here but I did it and if nothing comes of it well so be it, live and learn. I sent the money a week ago by Western Union (she did not ask for it, I just surprised here with it) and she did not pick it up all this time. I was thinking that she maybe felt guilty about taking the money/gift from me knowing that she didnt have strong feelings for me BUT she took the money today from the bank and I am just waiting to see if there is going to be a thank you or something to show that she has a twinge of appreciation. When I sent her the text message last week notifying her that I had sent her a gift and to check her email (that had the details in it) I go no reponse at all. This was a pretty big gift knowing that her salary is $400 per month! I had to later ask her "did you get the details of my present" and she just said "I did, thank you" and that was it. And then for about 6 days she didn't say anything again about it until again I just noticed that she picked up the money last night (got email confirmation from Western Union). You have to understand that my heart got ahead of my head in this case and I wanted her to know I was serious about her. So I threw caution (and money) to the wind....

So I am just going to sit back and wait and see if she bothers to contact me again. I thought we had something (and no I did not fall in love with a picture - to be brutally honest she is not that great looking - say 6 on a scale of 1 to 10). I just really liked her character and personality in the beginning - again all by chat on-line and not by phone. But as I said before along the way I realized I was putting a LOT more effort into building the foundation of a relationship than she was. It all boiled over when I started to call her and got excuses why she couldn't talk or silence on the other end of the line when we did briefly connect.

Well in any case I am feeling better as I have already "met" (I know, I know....) another woman who I am already exchanging emails with but this time I am going to GO SLOW and not committ to any one women. If they ask, I will say that I am communicating with others as I would expect that they would. When I go to Russia or Ukraine this fall I will resist the natural tendancy in me to do a one-women trip (I am too nice of a guy and it works against me...). I want to meet 2 or 3 women. In fact I find the proposition quite exciting!!! I am just hoping that I can find 2-3 women from the same area to make things easier to line everything up.

I can't wait to get the adventure going again! I first did this in 2000 when I was 28 and wow it was a powerful and crazy experience. I still smile when I think of it. I was there for 6 weeks in the dead of winter and came home a married man...much to the shock of my family who thought I was going there as just a regular tourist!!