Realistic Expectations

[Show Time]

The was a post in the experienced forum that discusses American women's "shopping lists".

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9668.0

The post brought up a few interesting points about AW and FSUW, and I thought about adding my thoughts.  However, I didn't feel right about posting in the experienced forum and, quite frankly, I had more questions than answers.

So, my loyal support group, I place my hopes and dreams in your (hopefully) capable hands...............................

The phrase "Realistic Expectations" has always been a bit of a sticking point with me.  Let's face one obvious fact here.  We (the guys searching for FSUW) are searching because we're not satisfied with what we can realistically find in our home country.  Right?  I think that it is also fair to say (technically type) that for ANY woman to consider moving eight to twelve timezones away from her family, friends, and virtually every comfort she has ever known that she must not happy (at the very least) with what she can realistically expect in her home country.

I'd like to throw these two questions to the AM who are currently dating or married to a FSUW and the FSUW that are currently living away from their country of origin.

To the AM:  What are the realistic expectations that I can have as far as finding a FSUW?  Age?  Looks?  Career Goals?  Family Values?

To the FSUW:  What are the expectations of a FSUW who is considering relocating for her husband?  Lifestyle?  Wealth?  Home? 

To help in answering these questions I've included a little of my bio. 

The picture in my avatar is less than a year old.  I pretty much look the same.  I'm 33 years old, 5' 10" tall and weigh 170 lbs. 

My salary is in the $75 - $100 k/yr range.  I'm currently renting an apartment simply because I have no need for a house right now.  I would prefer to continue to save for the down payment (already have the 20%, but would like to put more down) and buy a home with my wife (should that day come).  I've included a few links to the type of homes that I could afford on my salary alone.

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=26250120&backButton=Y&Address=1904%20San%20Jose%20St

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=6006103&backButton=Y&Address=1911%20San%20Joaquin%20Pkwy

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=6412155&backButton=Y&Address=3810%20Shiloh%20Park%20Ct

I've run the numbers and figure that I could support a family of four without my wife working provided:

The children went to public school.  (Note: The houses I've listed are in one the best school districts in the Houston area.)

We would drive reliable vehicles, but not luxury vehicles.  (I currently drive an '05 Nissan Frontier)

We could take nice vacations, not globe trot.  (We could "go home" to visit her family instead of Disneyworld).

Keep in mind that, from my perspective, whether or not she worked would be her choice as I have no preference for a working wife versus a home maker.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[Misha]

To the AM:  What are the realistic expectations that I can have as far as finding a FSUW?  Age?  Looks?  Career Goals?  Family Values?

Well, if all that you have written is true (it is the internet after all), and you do not have any major personality flaws, then IMHO you should not have any problem finding a very attractive woman in her twenties. The only real question is what is the best strategy for you to follow to meet women and find the one to marry.

[mendeleyev]

First please accept a compliment for doing some wise planning and research. That isn't often done appropiately.

Next however, and this may sound contradictory but it isn't, I believe all things "material" are ultimately immaterial. While you can't be a pauper and do this venture, the rest is meaningless. You should approach this like you're willing only to marry for love and that means even if the right woman is the cleaning lady in your building, and hope that she looks at love the same way.

Otherwise, and very unfortunately, one may get what he pays for.

[Shadow]

You can expect any babushka of over 60 to immediately fall for you and asking for marriage. 

Ok now serious. What I see you have not a lot to worry about. The basic things RW look for in a potential husband is that he looks better than a monkey (tough!) and is financially stable, and does not drink excessively or has a bad temper.
From this it seems you will do well.

As Mendeleyev mentioned, you will have to be careful not to flash your wallet and possibilities, as it might attract the wrong kind of woman. Just tell that you will be able to provide for a family and that she has a choice to get a career or stay at home.

What you can expect ? Not for me to tell. I would advise you to read hundreds of profiles and bookmark the ones that you find interesting not only by the picture but by the description as well. Start writing a lot, and narrow it down to a small number that you feel there can be mutual interest. Get the phone number and call.

Then its up to your personal habits to either visit them one at the time, starting from the nr1 prospect, or visit more than one at once.

If you will be as realistic about yourself, your idea of what a partner should be and how you expect to proceed, you will find what you look for.

[ambach123]

It baffles me.

You appear to be young, handsome and financially stable.

Why would you want to look for a woman in FSU?

There are millions and millions of AW, and you can't find one?

AW come in all varieties, and you should have no problems. I don't bash AW, they are your mothers and your sisters, and they are most suitable for you.

This pursuit is very difficult, time consuming, and expensive; you will also have to live in a one income family for a long time, as she would have limited if any earning capacity at least for a long while.

OTOH, according to stats, only 5% of people who venture into this ever even take a trip to FSU, let alone bringing a woman. I believe that ratio is 1% of those who pursue this. So eventually you will do what the 99% do,  find an AW.

[BC]

It baffles me.

You appear to be young, handsome and financially stable.

Why would you want to look for a woman in FSU?

There are millions and millions of AW, and you can't find one?

May we ask you the same question ambach?

LOL - just couldn't pass up on the jab.

Seriously though, using your guidelines if one is old and/or ugly look for a RW?  That really reeks.

[ladyR]

What are the expectations of a FSUW who is considering relocating for her husband?  Lifestyle?  Wealth?  Home? 

I think there are two parts at this question:

1. The expectations from searching for a man abroad
2. The expectations of relocating

My reasons:
1. Best overall "quality" of men 30+. Of course there are different people everywhere. But speaking about big figures they are in general more healthy physically, less demanding to woman:), less childish and more responsible (in almost all aspects of life).
2.  Only headaches, no good expectations at all. But it can be solved if you find a right person and want to be with him (see point 1 .)   

[Caddydaddy]

You can expect any babushka of over 60 to immediately fall for you and asking for marriage. 

  Shadow, and what if she will be very rich??  :usdeyes:
Would be worth a thought and the older the better, hehe

I AM KIDDING!

Caddydaddy

[gemini]

As I remember this what you are looking for

I want the two-dimensional woman.  I want someone who is attractive, fit, and fun.  The lady who likes to dress up and go out.  Someone who is very socialble.  The lady that knows how to work the room.  She takes pride in her appearance.  She ALSO realizes nothing that comes easy is worth having, life is filled with compromise, and happiness is internal.  She isn't necessarily religous, but is a person of faith.  She is guided by the principle, "If my children were in the same situation, how would I want them to act or what would I want them to do?"

I am sure you could find a AW with all this qualities. I think the reason or one of the reasons why you are looking for a RW is your disappointment with AW you use to date. I was disappointed with RM after my divorce.

I will try to answer your question what RW are looking for. People in Russia tend to marry early. It is probably sounds ridiculous but 25+ woman is old made in Russia because most of the men are married by 25. It is changing now in the big cities but not so much. My niece is 25 and lots of her friends are 25, divorce and have one child. For most of the women is close to impossible to find a husband. Financial situation is not as good in Russia as it is in US. Lot of the young (and not so young) men in Russia are not able to support themselves, not speaking about a wife and children.
The situation with housing is horrible. Some of my friends' children are married and live with their parents/parents-in-low in small 2 bedroom apartments and it is common situation. There are some other reasons but my point is for lots of RW it is the only hope to find a husband.
     

[Misha]

You appear to be young, handsome and financially stable.

Why would you want to look for a woman in FSU?

Let's see, you keep telling us that you have sooooo much money. I also believe that you are not old. So, I presume by your logic that means that you are not very handsome as you too are pursuing a RW  :evil:

This pursuit is very difficult, time consuming, and expensive; you will also have to live in a one income family for a long time, as she would have limited if any earning capacity at least for a long while.

Ambach, what exactly is this obsession of your with living in a one-income family? You keep repeating how difficult it is to live on one income. Did you even read the original post? Show Time specified that his income would be sufficient and she could work or not work depending on  her desires and circumstances.

[kievstar]

Hi showtime, you should do well in your search.  But do not discuss financials with RW as most do not understand it and if they wanted money most have the opportunity to date / marry millionares.  I would also encourage you to visit women in their home country and preferably home city .  

I see to many men going on vacations for first meeting and to be honest most women do not take guys seriously when this happens.  There are exceptions to meeting outside the country first but you seem to have no flaws so most girls will not be afraid to show you off to her parents and friends.  A serious woman will not have to try you out in a foreign country or city first.

You probably not going to find the 22 year old who is a real model as there no different than other women.  But you can find a very attractive 25 to 28 year old.  My advice look at women over 25 years old unless your prepared for them to make a drastic change in life.

[I/O]

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=26250120&backButton=Y&Address=1904%20San%20Jose%20St

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=6006103&backButton=Y&Address=1911%20San%20Joaquin%20Pkwy

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=6412155&backButton=Y&Address=3810%20Shiloh%20Park%20Ct

What you can expect is closely linked to your self beleif IMO.

BTW, housing is awfully cheap where you're looking. I can't quite take those prices in to be honest.

I/O

[Whynot]

Hey Showtime -

Off-topic - i can't believe how much house you can get in the US (Houston) for so little money - wow!

On-topic - i'll echo most other posters here and am sure you'll have no problems finding a number of potential candidates for the role you are seeking to fill....as a matter of fact i think you'll have a bigger challenge short-listing in the first instance!

All the best and get over to the FSU as quick as you can - i'm sure you'll love it!

WN?

[Whynot]

Ok I/O - stop making that psychic connection.... ;-)

[Taz]

I'll encourage you to continue to do your due diligence. You are at a good age and seem to have your head pretty squarely on your shoulders. Don't rush this. It may take time. Much more than you think. Don't fall for the first lovely face you run across. Make sure she is the one you REALLY want to spend your life with.

If you have the time, go for a month (or more) and make as many contacts as you can there. I've been fortunate in that often I will be introduced to a friend of a friend and I've met some amazing women that way. I'd also encourage you to learn some of the language. While it isn't absolutely necessary it will enrich your trip in so many way you just can't fathom at this point.

As mentioned don't discuss your financial situation other than you are capable of supporting a family. Definitely don't go too young even though based on your age you could easily draw from the low 20's. I would suggest reading some of the sections in the RWPedia. Go here and look under the best RWD threads:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

The triple trip report will be pretty interesting I think.

Feel free to contact some of us off list. I'll be glad to talk with you in more detail in a private setting rather than a public forum. Shut me a PM and with your contact info and I'll give you a call and we can chat if you like.

Best of luck in your search! Don't rush it and enjoy the ride. It will be one heckuva ride I can assure you.

[myrddin]

To the AM:  What are the realistic expectations that I can have as far as finding a FSUW?  Age?  Looks?  Career Goals?  Family Values?

Some of my impressions - I'll do a complete analysis after I've dated a statistically significant sample of FSUW and AW  

Overall it is a lot like more local dating, except with extra pitfalls, higher expense, long distances, and often language and cultural issues.

I'd suspect you'd have no trouble finding women to date ages 18-32.  Personally, I'd suggest not going lower than mid-20s.  And things must indeed be changing, there are many women in their late 20s without children, and many have not been married.

Her looks...well, there are a lot of very attractive, very fit women over there.   No matter what she looks like, don't reject yourself - let her do it.  And she might surprise you.  It seems to me it is more common to find W in the FSU who, regardless of their own beauty, are looking at a man's character (as long as you're more attractive than a monkey).  I've known a fair number of AW to give this notion lip service but not live up to it.

It seems to me less common for RW to put career ahead of family than it is for AW.  I've read that pretty much the only young RW who do not want children have medical issues.

Career goals vary widely. That's something you'll need to talk to her about!

The best preparation you can get before actually going yourself is to read everything you can here.

Good luck! Though your experiences will not be *exactly* like anyone else's here, it will indeed be one heckuva ride.

[Blues Fairy]

Showtime, why are you focusing on realistic expectations?

My own expectations, if I had any, have always been unrealistic and I have fared quite well with them thank you.
The higher you shoot the more chances to find something extraordinary, and why settle on something mediocre?
Look for someone who can be your best friend and lover and soul mate, and don't exclude worldwide opportunities.

Life is long enough to invest time in finding your ideal partner - but too short to waste it on living with someone just good enough.

[kievstar]

Housing market collapsed in 1980's in Texas and never had another boom.  Many areas of the USA did not have the big increase in housing problems that New York, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, and California had.  

[Sculpto]

I want to make a small point to follow up what Kiev said.  Show.. I was not impressed at all by you spelling out your economic situation, in fact it was a bit of a negative.  I suspect if you go about it with that as being a positive for an FSUW and you promote your material well being.. you will find yourself a very sophisticated gold digger who will ultimately make your life miserable. 

I might have totally misunderstood your post, but, I thought you would be telling us what a great guy you are and how interesting and cultured you are but it ended up coming off like a financial statement.

Read Ambach's threads.  Is that how you want to be seen?

I would also advise talking to Aloe if she has time because she is young and will have a solid perspective on the priorities of ladies in the age range I think you are looking for.  She married the guy without money even though guys with big money were flashing it around her.  My GF is doing the same thing with me.

True love doesn't care about the size of your house.. the type of car your drive... or even the size of your ....  concentrate on finding someone that you have strong emotional chemistry with, compatibility, and who PROVES through her actions that she loves you.  Takes time.. don't rush and make sure your eyeballs don't pop out on your first days in the FSU. 

 

Housing in some parts of the US is incredibly cheap.  If you think you can get a lot in Houston.. take a look at places like Iowa.. Nebraska.. Kansas.. parts of Utah.. even these days some parts of SoCal.  I know a guy that picked up a house in SoCal.. 6000 square feet.. sorry not sure what that is in meters.. but its a very big house.. anyway... he got the place in a foreclosure sale from a bank on the brink of failure.. 50K.  There are others.. the only problem is there is NO WORK right now in that area. 

[Lee08]

Hello Showtime,
I would also be happy to talk with you in a private setting. I have some experience and a wife at home.
Phone call or Skype video call with me and my wife.

Anyway, good luck with everything you do. 

[Daveman]

Some excellent info in this thread..

Nothing really to add but maybe a different thought.

"Realistic expectations" are for those who plan to fail.  Maybe that's an overstatement in a way, but not far off.

In Business, 95% will fail within 5 years.. so why do it?  Realistic expectations -- you will fail.

Look at the numbers of guys going over as opposed to those who are happily married, even on this board.  Realistically, you should give up the ghost and not even try because the realistic expectation is that you will fail miserably. 

It take a special kind of personality to succeed at anything.. one who is capable of self assessment and continual  adjustment.  Everything in life, regardless of what it is begins as someone's *dream*. It doesn't exist beyond the scope of thought. So dream big, and then be willing to *do* what it takes to get it.

The point being that you should first focus in on exactly the kind of woman who will make YOU happy...what do you want? what does she look like? what kind of personality does she have? Get serious and maybe even write it all down to get completely focused on it... then go find her and don't quit until you get her (even if the first 10 are not her).  Planning, leg work, tenacity, and a bit of luck...  sounds like you have the planning under control... so my only real addition here is you must be willing to put in the time and effort, and be willing to walk away rather than settle.  Reflect and revise, then shoot again, until you find that elusive jewel.

Any fool can marry an FSUW. Really... it's about as difficult as falling and hitting the ground.  Finding that diamond is another story altogether.  Unless you are seriously lucky from the outset, you'll be creating your own opportunities with the tenacity of action. 

[Show Time]

Next time I'll hire better security in an attempt to thwart the hijackers.

I guess I'll start with Sculpto since I had to stop, think, re-read, re-think, get a cigarette, and calm down before replying.  (BTW, we have found the first character flaw of mine.  I smoke.  I plan on quitting next Sunday as a Father's Day gift, but I can not guarantee the success as I'm not quitting for myself.  But on with the show.)

Sculpto,

I truly believe that your heart is in the right place.  I would like to caution you on your posts as they sometimes come off a bit rough. 
You did say

I might have totally misunderstood your post

So please allow me to clarify. 

The point of the "financial statement", from the perspective of someone essentially starting from scratch, was to paint a very real picture of the living conditions an FSUW would encounter if she chose to marry me and then compare that to what expectations she might have.  I have heard in other circles that there are actually agencies in Ukraine that promote the idea of finding a "rich American man" in order to lure attractive women to their agency.  Perhaps I should have brought that point out in my post. 

 but, I thought you would be telling us what a great guy you are and how interesting and cultured you are

Very interesting point.  Question though?  How does one do that?  "I'm interesting and cultured!"  Does that make it so?  I have always been one to deal in facts.  That's just my nature.  I have always found that the best way to describe my character is through what I say and do.  The fact is then what other people say about me.  Apparently, you do not think much of me right now.  That's you're choice and I can not change that.  If there has been a communication gap, then WE can work on that. 

To All,

If my original post seemed that I was bragging or trying to be flashy, then please accept my sincere apologies.

Just a few words on the Houston economy since it seems to be an interesting topic of my hijacked post.

Houston is a hot, humid, mosquito infested swamp that gets hit by a hurricane every so often.  Who in their right mind would want to live here.  People that make stuff, that's who.  We make stuff that people use every day.  We make gasoline, we make plastic, we grow food.  In fact, the unit I work in makes the active ingredient in laundry soap.  So while consumption has slowed due to the economy, people are still driving, they are still eating, and they are still buying laundry detergent in plastic bottles.

Housing prices have not dropped in this housing crisis (primarily because we shot all the speculators in the area after the 1980's  ). 

While the unemployment rate is higher than we would like, it's still well below the national average.

If you have an industrial trade, can stand stand the heat, humidity, mosquitoes, and the occasional VERY high winds, then we're looking for you.   


Let's continue...........

On the topic of realistic expectations.  There have been some very good points about having high expectations and failure rates, etc. but the purpose of the post was to separate the myths from reality.

Go to ANY foreign marriage websites and what do you see?  Young, beautiful, provocative women who just "can't find a good man in my home country."  Really?  If I saw American women doing this, I would hunt them down and slap them (kidding).  However, I would ask, "Are you blind, stupid, or both?" 

There are approximately 46,000,000 people in Ukraine.  15,000,000 of those are men between the ages of 15 and 64.  There are currently 14,251 Ukraine women on AFA's site.  Some of these women are movie star gorgeous.  They cant find 14,251 men (0.9% of the population).   BTW, what's going on in Ukraine?  They have twice as many profiles as Russia and a third of the population.

Granted, I'm a good looking, interesting, and cultured man.  BUT, I don't speak the language and I live on the other side of the world.  Surely, 0.9% of the men have to be just as interesting and cultured.  (Yeah, I know I left out good looking.  Laugh people!)  So I raise the question again.  What are they expecting to find?  Remember, Houston has to be like walking on the sun after growing up in an area further north than Bangor, Maine.  And that's just the climate shift.

[brucen36]

So I raise the question again.  What are they expecting to find? 

They are expecting to find a visa.

[Sculpto]

The point of the "financial statement", from the perspective of someone essentially starting from scratch, was to paint a very real picture of the living conditions an FSUW would encounter if she chose to marry me and then compare that to what expectations she might have.  I have heard in other circles that there are actually agencies in Ukraine that promote the idea of finding a "rich American man" in order to lure attractive women to their agency.  Perhaps I should have brought that point out in my post. 

Very interesting point.  Question though?  How does one do that?  "I'm interesting and cultured!"  Does that make it so?  I have always been one to deal in facts.  That's just my nature.  I have always found that the best way to describe my character is through what I say and do.  The fact is then what other people say about me.  Apparently, you do not think much of me right now.  That's you're choice and I can not change that.  If there has been a communication gap, then WE can work on that. 

Show..
Sorry if I pissed you off.. wasn't my plan.  I just had an odd/strong reaction to your original post.. made me feel the same way reading Ambach's stuff does.  My first impressions of you were very different than that so I was surprised.  Please be assured I do not have a negative opinion of you.  In fact, I would not have bothered to write as much as I did if I didn't think you are worth the effort. 

I still think you are focusing on exactly the wrong thing though.  At this stage you don't have a relationship with an FSUW that would warrant even casual mention of your financial situation.  At this point it is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!  If a lady would even ask abut it before you have met her.. before you have an actual relationship.. it would be a big red flag.  Even if you get to an exclusive stage of letter writing and online communications it would still be a mistake to dangle the carrot of what might or might not be an improved lifestyle for the lady.  You might be surprised by how well some of the ladies are doing in the FSU.  Not all are $200 a month wage slaves desperate to escape their material poverty.  There are plenty of ladies who through smart and hard work have carved out pretty comfortable lives.  Those are the ones that to me are the best candidates.

If a lady is on an international site with serious intentions she already knows her life is going to change dramatically.  She also at least remotely understands the basics of the economic differences.  But, all of it is still totally abstract until she gets here.  So, why bother filling her head with expectations or ideas? 

I think you should be focusing on the fact that you ARE and intelligent and well spoken man with diverse interests and some early career success.  That would be putting your best foot forward.  In a highly image conscious society like the FSU you stand to gain a lot more respect and mileage by being vague about your finances and specific about how awesome you are. 

On the topic of realistic expectations.  There have been some very good points about having high expectations and failure rates, etc. but the purpose of the post was to separate the myths from reality.

There are approximately 46,000,000 people in Ukraine.  15,000,000 of those are men between the ages of 15 and 64.  There are currently 14,251 Ukraine women on AFA's site.  Some of these women are movie star gorgeous.  They cant find 14,251 men (0.09% of the population).   BTW, what's going on in Ukraine?  They have twice as many profiles as Russia and a third of the population.

I think there are simply more agencies in Ukraine because there are fewer "legit" business opportunities in that country.  The number of ladies available on agency sites is not a true indicator of anything except the number of agencies that exist in a particular place.  Plus, Ukraine is a lot easier to enter, and probably easier to get around over all than Russia.  In my own case I avoided Russia for the first two years of my search because I didn't want to deal with the visa, registrations, discomfort of the idea of providing my passport just to buy a sim card, the incredible distances and so on.  Ukraine is a lot more compact and seemed more manageable.  Funny that I found my fiance in Russia.  All the things that kept me out of Russia proved to be nothing to worry about at all. 

[Misha]

What are they expecting to find? 

Depends on the woman. Let me preface by saying that I did not use any agencies, and instead I used free Russian dating sites. I have never been to Ukraine, only Russia. I was lucky in that I found a woman who was not looking solely for a foreigner, but a good husband. I would like to think she found what she was looking for.