Realistic Expectations

[Taz]

I'd like to add that even if a woman is in a $200/mo job, many of they can be quite happy  (other than wanting a man). I have met quite a few that weren't interested in being economic immigrants. They just wanted to find love.

As for the number of profiles and the ratios vis a vis the population with respect to UA and RU, currently I would submit it has to do with the economic crisis hitting UA harder than RU at this moment. As a result I'd wager there are more "economic" immigrants searching than before. The longer it goes on, the more likely women will again begin to search beyond their borders for a mate capable of supporting herself and a family.

[Sculpto]

Wait.. if you look on flirt or other russian language dating sites the disparity disappears..

that to me indicates a few things..

either more economics motivated ladies.. or.. more agencies.. or both.. I lean to it being both.

[kievstar]

What some of the agencies do is go to modelling agencies and pay girls for their photos.  They also tell these girls they can get gifts, money, cars etc of rich men.  The model looking girls under 24 years of age are not looking to get married.  AFA and Anastiaweb have a ton of these girls. 

Anastiaweb has more than 2000 girls 20 years and younger looking for marriage.  They have less than 400 women over 40 years old.  It is all about the letter writing and the foolish men who do.

 

[Sculpto]

Kiev.. isn't that how some of the agencies got started in the first place?  They were actually modelling agencies.. I heard that somewhere..

[kievstar]

Hi Scultpo, that is true but they branched out to add older women.  The girls I know who work in the agencies go to modelling agencies and universities to recruit women. Note: these girls are not looking to get married let alone a foreigner.  Playing around with school age girls is not easy when it comes to marriage. 

I remember this one guy who I met in Kiev connections.  We were sitting next to each other in the agency and working on the computer.  He was looking at girls (picking his potential dates) and telling me these girls are not as hot as Anastiaweb and he could do better somewhere else or in the USA.  Than we had a conversation with the owner about financially secure and the guy realized the good looking girls can date millionaires if they want.  This guy I believe did not date anyone from this agency and moved on. 

I could write forever on this.
 

[Ronnie]

Show Time,

Please don't worry about Sculpto.  If he didn't rip you, you'd have to figure something's out of place in the universe, so don't let that bother you.

I find myself doing something I seem to do way too often - agreeing with Blues Fairy.  You are at the ideal age, in ideal financial circumstances (which are further magnified by the low home prices in Texas) so here is what you can have on your "shopping list:"

Physically Attractive - look for good genes..check out her mother..that's how she'll likely look down the road:

Intellect:  Does she reason well or is she emotionally driven?  If the latter she will be trouble for the relationship.  If she uses reason, you can solve any problem.  I say this because you have written enough here to give us a peak into your intellectual capacity and it's impressive.  

Kindness: If she is devoid of or lacking in kindness, the other attributes lose all their value.

I want to relay a short story that happened to me last week.  I work on a military installation I was a in a rush to pick up my wife after her class and left ID card in my keyboard.  The card is needed to get back onto the installation.  When I got home, I emailed a co-worker telling him what I'd done and said if I couldn't talk my way back on the base I would call him and ask him to bring my card to the gate.  I also told him the time I expected to arrive.

I was able to convince the Marine guard to let me on base without my card but when I got to the office, my co-worker was gone.  "That's odd" I thought, "what if I'd needed him to bring me my card?"  Then I noticed my card was not in my keyboard and realized he had misunderstood my request and was waiting for me at the gate.  Turns out that was exactly what he was doing, if fact he had walked to two different gates, not sure which I might be arriving at.

The purpose in telling this story is this:  I selected this co-worker to call because unlike some of my co-workers, I knew this young gentleman would not hesitate to help a co-worker.  Even when he returned to the office after his 40-minute walkabout looking for me, he was not upset at the miscommunication.  Just concerned for me.  That young gentleman will be a fine husband when he finds the right woman.

Back in college, when I was dating, I devised a test that early in the relationship I would purposely be late picking up my date or meeting her somewhere.  I would then gage her reaction when I showed up.  Most were insensed and asked if I had any idea how long I had kept them waiting.  A few (very few) were smiling and relieved to see me, having worried that some misfortune had befallen me along the way.  Kindness.  If you must compromise in some aspect (and I agree you don't need to) kindness should be off the table.

And, Show Time - I suppose it must be said that you may be handsome, successful and intelligent, but if you are one of those unkind souls (if, I said), then please do youself and some woman a favor and stay single.

[Blues Fairy]

There are approximately 46,000,000 people in Ukraine.  15,000,000 of those are men between the ages of 15 and 64.  There are currently 14,251 Ukraine women on AFA's site.  Some of these women are movie star gorgeous.  They cant find 14,251 men (0.9% of the population).   BTW, what's going on in Ukraine?  They have twice as many profiles as Russia and a third of the population.

And how are the movie-star gorgeous single women supposed to scour the country in search of suitable men?  If she works in a small firm where colleagues are mostly women, goes out to clubs where men are hardly marriage material, and prefers not to make acquaintances in the street or in public transport (a certain stigma attached to that mode of hooking up) - her pool of possible candidates is hardly 0.9% of population.  Hardly even 0.01%.  Chances of finding a soul mate among 2-10 unmarried guys she gets to know?

But then, there's the Internet.  She gets online, and her chances instantly go up.  And why, explain to me, does she have to limit herself to the domestic dating scene if she's adventurous and ready to move, and speaks decent English, and is already sick and tired of working as an accountant in that small firm?  Why not expand the dating pool even further?  Don't think the women on international dating sites have not tried or are not trying the same through local dating sites.

[Taz]

I am surprised Lily hasn't posted anything here yet. I figured she'd have something to add to this thread. 

[Lily]

My bad, Taz, thanks for your reminder

Go to ANY foreign marriage websites and what do you see?  Young, beautiful, provocative women who just "can't find a good man in my home country."  Really?   If I saw American women doing this, I would hunt them down and slap them (kidding).  However, I would ask, "Are you blind, stupid, or both?" 

There are approximately 46,000,000 people in Ukraine.  15,000,000 of those are men between the ages of 15 and 64.  There are currently 14,251 Ukraine women on AFA's site.  Some of these women are movie star gorgeous.  They cant find 14,251 men (0.9% of the population).   BTW, what's going on in Ukraine?  They have twice as many profiles as Russia and a third of the population.

Show Time, you are welcome to read this:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5404.0

[gemini]

My bad, Taz, thanks for your reminder


Show Time, you are welcome to read this:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5404.0

Excellent posts, Lily! I could add many more information and stories. I use to live in one of the multiple "town of brides"  where women were fighting for a good man, sometimes for real. All boys were married just after army (21-22 yo). Most of the  unmarried men were heavy drinkers. There were very pretty women in that town, lots of them looked like photomodels.

[Misha]

I use to live in one of the multiple "town of bribes"  where women were fighting for a good man, sometimes for real. All boys were married just after army (21-22 yo). Most of the  unmarried men were heavy drinkers. There were very pretty women in that town, lots of them looked like photomodels.

I presume this is a typo and you meant a "town of brides" (город невест). My wife, also from another such town/city, describes dating and trying to find a decent man to marry in the same way.

[gemini]

I presume this is a typo and you meant a "town of brides" (город невест). My wife, also from another such town/city, describes dating and trying to find a decent man to marry in the same way.

Yes it was typo. I have couple friends in this town (город невест), they would love to find a husband anywhere in the world. The only problem they don't speak English. However the situation with my friends and relatives in St-Petersburg is not so much different. There is another problem in the big cities now; young men don't want to bring a wife to the parent's house anymore but they can't afford to buy or rent an apartment and support the family. There are lots of men in 20-30th  that are not in hurry to commit. Most of the women are quite opposite, they are desperate to find a husband and have a child before age 30. 

[Daveman]

On the topic of realistic expectations.  There have been some very good points about having high expectations and failure rates, etc. but the purpose of the post was to separate the myths from reality.
...
What are they expecting to find?

That's a question which each individual lady with whom you communicate will have to answer.

Listen, there are very few 100% facts, and very few 100% myths.  I basically use four primary categories to keep my perspective straight.

A) Women seeking a foreign man specifically (probably the smallest group, but having the most number of problems)
B) Women seeking a relationship but open to the possibility of a foreign man
C) Women seeking a local man (whom you can sweep off her feet under the right circumstance
D) Women absolutely not interested in a foreign man (this may well be the largest group  )

Generally speaking, the priorities of the first three groups will fall at different plot points along the curve.  You have to be very careful treading through group A because this is where most of the problem children reside.

As to answering what they expect... other than stability in life and love, the answers are as varied as the colors of the spectrum of individuality.  This is why it is most important to get clearly focused on the kind of woman YOU want. If you don't know what you really want in a woman, you'll probably end up chasing your tail or worse. 

Of course, setting high standards is an individual mindset -- what may be high standards for me may not be the same for you.  The rule of thumb is -- the higher you set the bar, or the more picky you are (and you SHOULD be) the more time, effort, and money will be involved in finding a lady who meets YOUR expectations, and to whom you meet hers.  It's a very individual thing. 


The married guys can tell you what their wives wanted.  And that's a good start, but unless you are identical to these guys, the information there is baseline and nothing more.  The ladies here can tell you what they want, but, they are not necessarily the type of lady your are seeking -- so again, baseline info to get moving, but you still have to MOVE to accomplish anything.

Other than a few cultural differences in relationship roles, etc, there is very little difference between AM and RW.  A specific woman from one culture can vary greatly from a specific woman in the other (and obviously from within the same culture - wherein lies the main point), however, if you were to superimpose one entire group on top of the other, they would be virtually indistinguishable.

Fact/Reality: You can find *any* kind of woman you want to find, here, there, in any country, if you are willing to put in the time and effort to do it.

Myth: Russian women are [fill in the blank]. 

It's not about what *they* expect, but in finding women, or rather a woman, for whom YOU, whatever "you" happens to be, are their dream/expectation and she is yours.  That's the bottom line. Anything else is just chatting around the campfire and sharing stories of individual situations which may or may not help you in your search.

So, good luck.. and best wishes.

 

[Faux Pas]

Other than a few cultural differences in relationship roles, etc, there is very little difference between AM and RW.  A specific woman from one culture can vary greatly from a specific woman in the other (and obviously from within the same culture - wherein lies the main point), however, if you were to superimpose one entire group on top of the other, they would be virtually indistinguishable.


 

True dat 

[Ronnie]

Other than a few cultural differences in relationship roles, etc, there is very little difference between AM and RW. 

 :hairraising:

[jdk1963]

First please accept a compliment for doing some wise planning and research. That isn't often done appropiately.

Next however, and this may sound contradictory but it isn't, I believe all things "material" are ultimately immaterial. While you can't be a pauper and do this venture, the rest is meaningless. You should approach this like you're willing only to marry for love and that means even if the right woman is the cleaning lady in your building, and hope that she looks at love the same way.

Otherwise, and very unfortunately, one may get what he pays for.

Valuable pearls of wisdom. 

Put another way; If you advertise yourself as a prostitute do not be surprised at having a pimp for a husband.

More important than the material, do you share the same values with your prospective spouse?

[jdk1963]

I have been reminded by a friend of another pearl of wisdom!

No matter how beautiful (intelligent, pleasant, interesting, etc.) she may be, some guy, somewhere, is tired of her crap.

 

[ECOCKS]

ST:

You'll obviously be able to do well in the standard scramble for an FSUW.

The real question I would ask you is how much effort you really are putting into this exercise?

Would you reasonably try to date a girl in NYC from Houston and expect that she will fall in love as a result of dozens of long, steamy, romantic phone calls over a few months punctuated by a week-long visit or two (including the one where you magically met and "chose" each other?). I guess with a NY location you might even try a few weekenders if the tickets were cheap enough.

Just ask yourself if you believe a quality relationship can be built this way? Will you each know enough about the other? Will you have prepared a home for her that she will be happy with? What if she hates Nissans and loves Toyotas?

IMO you're starting at the end result and trying to work backwards from your goal.

I'd suggest you first layout your strategy to get to know Eastern Europe and its people, determine the area you wish to look around in and then plan a couple of 3-4 week trips at least 3-4 months out. Then get on a good dating site (I regard EM as the best for searching/dating) which moves you into direct contact quickly and setup a few (determine your own number) online relationships. When you begin identifying women you are interested in, let them know roughly when you will be in country and begin setting up "dates" to explore each other.

I can't tell you how long you'll need to plan for this to gel but think through the logistics and timing. Some guys will tell you they went and picked a girl out (and was in turn selected by her) in the first day or so, then they came home did the K-1 and life will be a bowl of pre-pitted cherries for the rest of their life. Others will tell you of missteps, good intentions, bad timing, career conflicts, financial issues and so on which got in the way of building a long-term relationship. To each their own.

The bottom line is you have the potential to find an absolutely drop-dead gorgeous woman from the FSU (who Donald Trump or Ron Perlman would be envious of) if you really want to invest the time and effort into finding one you are compatible with and who wants to be with someone like you appear to be.

Now, go turn the potential into a reality.

[Faux Pas]

ST:

You'll obviously be able to do well in the standard scramble for an FSUW.

The real question I would ask you is how much effort you really are putting into this exercise?

Would you reasonably try to date a girl in NYC from Houston and expect that she will fall in love as a result of dozens of long, steamy, romantic phone calls over a few months punctuated by a week-long visit or two (including the one where you magically met and "chose" each other?). I guess with a NY location you might even try a few weekenders if the tickets were cheap enough.

Just ask yourself if you believe a quality relationship can be built this way? Will you each know enough about the other? Will you have prepared a home for her that she will be happy with? What if she hates Nissans and loves Toyotas?

IMO you're starting at the end result and trying to work backwards from your goal.

I'd suggest you first layout your strategy to get to know Eastern Europe and its people, determine the area you wish to look around in and then plan a couple of 3-4 week trips at least 3-4 months out. Then get on a good dating site (I regard EM as the best for searching/dating) which moves you into direct contact quickly and setup a few (determine your own number) online relationships. When you begin identifying women you are interested in, let them know roughly when you will be in country and begin setting up "dates" to explore each other.

I can't tell you how long you'll need to plan for this to gel but think through the logistics and timing. Some guys will tell you they went and picked a girl out (and was in turn selected by her) in the first day or so, then they came home did the K-1 and life will be a bowl of pre-pitted cherries for the rest of their life. Others will tell you of missteps, good intentions, bad timing, career conflicts, financial issues and so on which got in the way of building a long-term relationship. To each their own.

The bottom line is you have the potential to find an absolutely drop-dead gorgeous woman from the FSU (who Donald Trump or Ron Perlman would be envious of) if you really want to invest the time and effort into finding one you are compatible with and who wants to be with someone like you appear to be.

Now, go turn the potential into a relaity.

Good stuff and excellent advice

[Kvinna]

It baffles me.
You appear to be young, handsome and financially stable.
Why would you want to look for a woman in FSU?
There are millions and millions of AW, and you can't find one?

I am sorry I am a bit later but I can't just walk past those words of wisdom

ambach123 if to follow your logic -> you are old, ugly and financially unstable, right? otherwise why you look for a woman from FSU?

[groovlstk]

Two out of three ain't bad, Kvinna 

[CallMeSasha]

Showtime, why are you focusing on realistic expectations?

My own expectations, if I had any, have always been unrealistic and I have fared quite well with them thank you.
The higher you shoot the more chances to find something extraordinary, and why settle on something mediocre?
Look for someone who can be your best friend and lover and soul mate, and don't exclude worldwide opportunities.

Life is long enough to invest time in finding your ideal partner - but too short to waste it on living with someone just good enough.

BF i really don't understand your posts sometimes, you talk of "finding something extraordinary" but when our "friend" Duke spoke of his high expectations you said this:

"Don't forget to check the teeth of your future horse bride.  Very important." 

[Gator]

BF i really don't understand your posts sometimes, you talk of "finding something extraordinary" but when our "friend" Duke spoke of his high expectations you said this:

"Don't forget to check the teeth of your future horse bride.  Very important." 

This seems to me as picking off a scab.

[Blues Fairy]

BF i really don't understand your posts sometimes, you talk of "finding something extraordinary" but when our "friend" Duke spoke of his high expectations you said this:

"Don't forget to check the teeth of your future horse bride.  Very important." 

 
Our "friend" Duke had very high expectations indeed.   Do you seriously think I was talking about things like good breeder genes in my post up thread?

Anyway, if you don't get it then so be it; I'm not going to waste time explaining the obvious. 

[Faux Pas]

BF i really don't understand your posts sometimes, you talk of "finding something extraordinary" but when our "friend" Duke spoke of his high expectations you said this:

"Don't forget to check the teeth of your future horse bride.  Very important." 

If you had followed the thread that you are referring to you would have known where the horse/bride comment was borne. In any event the dukemaxwell saga continues to be hashed over, under and sideways in the other thread. Perhaps you'd like to join in that fray rather than trying to breathe life into and then sidetrack this long dead thread?