How fat is too fat?

[Gator]

Sculpto - wait until you marry.  I don't know about other men, but I have gained weight after marrying my Muscovite.

My waist has gone from 36 to where I am buying 40 just to be comfortable, thinking I will throw them away.  I am 6' and weigh more now (210) than I did 6 months after Vietnam (I weighed my adult minimum upon leaving VN).  


What does my wife say?  She likes my fuller face, cares less about my belly but wants stronger arms and legs.  Nor does she encourage me to eat less.  I think it is the bottle of red wine every day (sometimes two).

[Gator]

There is no such thing as a "cosmopolitan" peasant.  My grandmother was a peasant, and I am proud of that. 

Anyone who has immaculate table manners and refined wine tasting skills, yet uses dog hair to treat an aching back, does indeed have some peasantry under her cosmopolitan facade.

[Simoni]

 I think it is the bottle of red wine every day (sometimes two).

Did you mean to write "glasses?"

You are drinking two bottles of wine a day????  WOW!  She did drive you to drink:-)))

[Boethius]

Anyone who has immaculate table manners and refined wine tasting skills, yet uses dog hair to treat an aching back, does indeed have some peasantry under her cosmopolitan facade.

My peasant Baba, who also had nice table manners (though I doubt she would have known when to use a fish fork) had many remedies for ailments, almost all herbal.  There is also a strong notion of wax pouring as a remedy for certain (largely psychological) illnesses.  But, even she would have laughed at the notion of using dog hair to cure, or ease, a backache.

[Sculpto]

I hope not Gator.  But I did do well when I was with her, both times came back from Moscow lighter than when I arrived.. she is all about salads, hardly any meat.. pelmini no more than once a week.. I am really hoping she will love Mexican food.. the southern Mexican diet is really healthy.

I find it really hard to cook for one person.  I always make too much or not enough and after a while get frustrated and end up eating out all the time.  I am in a battle right now.. slacked off cooking.. ate out three times in the last week and I can feel it.  The whole car thing made me crave comfort food.

[OlgaH]

But, even she would have laughed at the notion of using dog hair to cure, or ease, a backache.

Socks, mittens, belts and other wearing knitted of dog fluff (hair)  have always been very popular in Russia. And people still use it as a mean to get rid of pain (rheumatism, radiculitis, osteochondrosis and etc)

Medicinal belts made of dog hair.
http://www.poyasnica.ru/index.php?page=about_dog

Thermal Knee-length socks made of dog and lama hair
http://shop.avesnin.ru/TUkGUYTUccUg1.htm

[SANDRO43]

That is not an absolute truth in the case of Tsarist Russia.

Again very variable situations. I already related how my grandmother (www.floriani.it/nonnaeugenia-eng.htm) told me that in WWI they had converted a hunting lodge to a convalescents' home for the (lucky) sons of their peasants returning home only wounded from the front. To them, their estates were one large extended family.

Granted it was a paternalistic view, but in the Russia of the 1910s not all followed that model .

[Gator]

Socks, mittens, belts and other wearing knitted of dog fluff (hair)  have always been very popular in Russia.

Thanks OlgaH.  Our American doctor said without missing a beat, "Dog hair is good for a sore back, just put ice on top of the dog hair." 

[Gator]

Did you mean to write "glasses?"

Nope, but note that a bottle contains 5 red glasses - 4 for her and 1 for me.  So if I want a second glass, we need to open another bottle.

[Taz]

Maybe they just want the dog hair to hide the few extra pounds they've stashed away on their bodies over the years...  

I used to sell lots of garments made from the hair of the Samoyeds I raised. Amazing garments to wear. They were warmer than wool and didn't shrink. Very nice hair to spin into yarn.

[OlgaH]

Maybe they just want the dog hair to hide the few extra pounds they've stashed away on their bodies over the years...  

Taz, I think you should abstract your mind away from extra pounds   

Samoyeds are cute dogs.

[Taz]

I am just joking about the pounds. I don't take weight that seriously. I take my own weight that seriously. 

Yes, Samoyeds are awesome. I started to breed them with wolves for a while. They made incredibly cute pups.

[OlgaH]

Yes, Samoyeds are awesome. I started to breed them with wolves for a while. They made incredibly cute pups.

Our papa had a white wolf (maybe half wolf, I don't remember). Her name was Tundra. She was very old and loved when I scratched her head. Now he has a Samoyed named Moose. Such funny fluffy fidget.

[Taz]

Wolves are amazing animals. You can never be their master (sort of like RW ) not that I'd ever want to be the master of a woman anyway. I want there to be mutual respect.

[OlgaH]

I agree with you about wolves. There is really something enigmatic about them.

I just asked Robert about papa's Tundra. She was 70% wolf.

[Taz]

You really have to understand what it means to be the Alpha male/female, beta, etc. It does prepare you for understanding certain aspects of male/female relationships in general. For many foreign men it would help them to understand the dynamics with RW/UW. It would help some men to be "men". I don't mean as in being a predator (хищник). But by being strong and in command.

[Taz]

Welcome to the thread. Interesting name; pilljame. Does it have any connection with your signature? Are you suggesting that RW need diet pills or are you here to do a little commercial promotion? 

[JR]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!!

I just put 2 and 2 together: America is the most abese nation on earth with roughly half the population being considered "overweight." America also has roughly twice the population of Russia. Therefore the number of "slender" AW verses RW is roughtly equal.

[Sculpto]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!!

I just put 2 and 2 together: America is the most abese nation on earth with roughly half the population being considered "overweight." America also has roughly twice the population of Russia. Therefore the number of "slender" AW verses RW is roughtly equal.

lol brilliant logic.. if it were only true..

remember "the breakfast club"?  I think it went.. "you are a fat girl that just hasn't gotten fat yet"  or something like that..

[Taz]

This might be of interest to some. I've been saving it for a "rainy" (slow) day in this thread. So does this mean all obese AW are just big boned muscular women?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

Top 10 Reasons Why The BMI Is Bogus

by Keith Devlin

The BMI Formula

BMI = weight in pounds/(height in inches x height in inches) x 703
The 703 is to convert the index from the original metric version of the formula.

CDC Recommendations:

Below 18.5 = Underweight
18.5 to 24.9 = Ideal
25.0 to 29.9 = Overweight
30.0 and above = Obese

 
Weekend Edition Saturday, July 4, 2009 · Americans keep putting on the pounds — at least according to a report released this week from the Trust for America's Health. The study found that nearly two-thirds of states now have adult obesity rates above 25 percent.

But you may want to take those findings — and your next meal — with a grain of salt, because they're based on a calculation called the body mass index, or BMI.

As the Weekend Edition math guy, I spoke to Scott Simon and told him the body mass index fails on 10 grounds:

1. The person who dreamed up the BMI said explicitly that it could not and should not be used to indicate the level of fatness in an individual.

The BMI was introduced in the early 19th century by a Belgian named Lambert Adolphe Jacques Quetelet. He was a mathematician, not a physician. He produced the formula to give a quick and easy way to measure the degree of obesity of the general population to assist the government in allocating resources. In other words, it is a 200-year-old hack.

2. It is scientifically nonsensical.

There is no physiological reason to square a person's height (Quetelet had to square the height to get a formula that matched the overall data. If you can't fix the data, rig the formula!). Moreover, it ignores waist size, which is a clear indicator of obesity level.

3. It is physiologically wrong.

It makes no allowance for the relative proportions of bone, muscle and fat in the body. But bone is denser than muscle and twice as dense as fat, so a person with strong bones, good muscle tone and low fat will have a high BMI. Thus, athletes and fit, health-conscious movie stars who work out a lot tend to find themselves classified as overweight or even obese.

4. It gets the logic wrong.

The CDC says on its Web site that "the BMI is a reliable indicator of body fatness for people." This is a fundamental error of logic. For example, if I tell you my birthday present is a bicycle, you can conclude that my present has wheels. That's correct logic. But it does not work the other way round. If I tell you my birthday present has wheels, you cannot conclude I got a bicycle. I could have received a car. Because of how Quetelet came up with it, if a person is fat or obese, he or she will have a high BMI. But as with my birthday present, it doesn't work the other way round. A high BMI does not mean an individual is even overweight, let alone obese. It could mean the person is fit and healthy, with very little fat.

5. It's bad statistics.

Because the majority of people today (and in Quetelet's time) lead fairly sedentary lives and are not particularly active, the formula tacitly assumes low muscle mass and high relative fat content. It applies moderately well when applied to such people because it was formulated by focusing on them. But it gives exactly the wrong answer for a large and significant section of the population, namely the lean, fit and healthy. Quetelet is also the person who came up with the idea of "the average man." That's a useful concept, but if you try to apply it to any one person, you come up with the absurdity of a person with 2.4 children. Averages measure entire populations and often don't apply to individuals.

6. It is lying by scientific authority.

Because the BMI is a single number between 1 and 100 (like a percentage) that comes from a mathematical formula, it carries an air of scientific authority. But it is mathematical snake oil.

7. It suggests there are distinct categories of underweight, ideal, overweight and obese, with sharp boundaries that hinge on a decimal place.

That's total nonsense.

8. It makes the more cynical members of society suspect that the medical insurance industry lobbies for the continued use of the BMI to keep their profits high.

Insurance companies sometimes charge higher premiums for people with a high BMI. Among such people are all those fit individuals with good bone and muscle and little fat, who will live long, healthy lives during which they will have to pay those greater premiums.

9. Continued reliance on the BMI means doctors don't feel the need to use one of the more scientifically sound methods that are available to measure obesity levels.

Those alternatives cost a little bit more, but they give far more reliable results.

10. It embarrasses the U.S.

It is embarrassing for one of the most scientifically, technologically and medicinally advanced nations in the world to base advice on how to prevent one of the leading causes of poor health and premature death (obesity) on a 200-year-old numerical hack developed by a mathematician who was not even an expert in what little was known about the human body back

[JR]

lol brilliant logic.. if it were only true..

remember "the breakfast club"?  I think it went.. "you are a fat girl that just hasn't gotten fat yet"  or something like that..

It's not the women Sculpt, it's the environment and habits. Many foreigners will come here and pick the habits of their environment and and the pounds.

[Taz]

I've met very few RW here that didn't gain a few pounds after coming here. Most of them have gained (according to them, I didn't weigh them nor did I ask and they just mentioned it in passing) about 15 lbs or so. Of course some gained more, some less. The "weight" advantage the RW held over the AW definitely diminished (unlike their weight).

I know a very well known Russian gymnast, the absolute best in the world during her generation, and even she has complained about gaining weight living in the US. She still looks attractive but when you are have the form of a gymnast, any weight you put on is more noticeable than if you started out a bit heavier. What can I say though, I always had a thing for female gymnasts...

[Boethius]

Socks, mittens, belts and other wearing knitted of dog fluff (hair)  have always been very popular in Russia. And people still use it as a mean to get rid of pain (rheumatism, radiculitis, osteochondrosis and etc)

Medicinal belts made of dog hair.
http://www.poyasnica.ru/index.php?page=about_dog

Thermal Knee-length socks made of dog and lama hair
http://shop.avesnin.ru/TUkGUYTUccUg1.htm

Socks made of dog hair, I heard of.  But never belts, or putting dog hair on the back.  I asked my husband, and he had never heard of this either, and he lived in (then) Leningrad for 4 years.

[Boethius]

Again very variable situations. I already related how my grandmother (www.floriani.it/nonnaeugenia-eng.htm) told me that in WWI they had converted a hunting lodge to a convalescents' home for the (lucky) sons of their peasants returning home only wounded from the front. To them, their estates were one large extended family.

Granted it was a paternalistic view, but in the Russia of the 1910s not all followed that model .

I liked your site, Sandro.  Here is a link to a genealogy website.  I couldn't find your mother's surname, but I did find the other surname - perhaps they are related to you.

http://88.217.241.77/amburger/tabellen/D.htm

vgd.ru is a good general source as well.  Much of this information is still making its way online.

[OlgaH]

Socks made of dog hair, I heard of.  But never belts, or putting dog hair on the back.  I asked my husband, and he had never heard of this either, and he lived in (then) Leningrad for 4 years.

Sorry, I don't know what to say. My grandmother used to knit different things of dog hair including belts for back. She had a spinning wheel and spindle to spin yarn. My music teacher, who was a survivor of  Leningrad siege, also used dog hair belt for her back.