How to start a conversation...

[janic]

a guy whose dream is sit on the couch all evening wont get along with a girl who likes going out, theres the lifestyle question

So assumingly I at least more-or-less covered that point...

How about writing a short engaging letter with some humor in it

a) It is very difficult to joke in languages you don't know very well and I can't tell you how many times in my life I messed a situation up, because I tried to joke and failed to do it adequately. - Well I never came into as much trouble as a US-guy I knew in Central America.... He was part of a group of locals and expats, but had only very limited knowledge of Spanish, but he heard that we addressed each other quite often with "Pendejo" (moron) or sometimes even "Maricon" (fag). One evening he decided to be very cool and went to order some more beer, telling the shopman "Hey maricon, da me cinco cervezas!"... Lol, it was quite a job to convince the shopman that the guy justed wanted to be nice and shouldn't have the sh* beaten out of him...
b) I would say my humor is mostly pretty 'dry' or even british...

instead of this longspun bore of an introduction?

I think I stated before that most of the time I use shorter or rather short messages. The one above was a [last] try of a long-form before I decided to ask here.

Perhaps instead of choosing women who don't speak English and write skeleton-like profiles, you might want to look at those who are actually able to put two words together. 

Let me correct you assumption: I stay 99% of the time away from woman who speak only Russian and contact only the ones who state on their profile that they speak one of the languages I also know, but unfortunately there is the problem that many woman who effectively speak no English at all still state they do. So normally I mention in my first message that I can communicate in Russian too and wait for her reply. In the above case she wrote that she's happy that I speak Russian and so I replied in Russian. (Therefor the start with "пожалуйста, не переоценивает мои знания русского языка ...")

There must be *something* that caught your eye, that's a good start.

Yes, but IMO it would sound extremely lame if I would write "I like the pleasant expression in your eyes"... 

As a wordy guy myself, I can (sometimes!  ) sense when people are losing focus.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me. Explain pls.

Even if your Russian is pretty good (and looks like it's A LOT better than mine)

Don't overestimate my knowledge. It took a lot of time to write these lines...

consider having a translator help with an intro letter or two.  Anastassia Ash from this board helped me with mine.

Hm, I don't feel comfortable with a translator, even if I've given it recently some more thoughts. Rather I would like to have a ghostwriter, but than it wouldn't be ME who writes...

Talk about something she's passionate about.

Of course, but that was my point, when I started this thread: When the profile only provides scarce information I have no clue what she eventually could be passionate about....

Don't get hung up on response rate.

I don't and my response rate is not even so bad. I would guess around 15-20% on a international site and around 10% on a local site. What worries me is the IMO extremely high drop-off rate after about < 5 messages.

No such thing.  There's too open, too much, too soon, but not too truthful.

Yeah, I used the "too truthful" in the meaning of 'too open'...

Couldn't resist this little tidbit, from a 9-year-old kid who appears to have some decent advice ("Pretty girls are like cars that need a lot of oil.") 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12022008/news/nationalnews/i_wrote_the_book_of_love_141817.htm

What a cool story. - And cool boy! LOL!

[Blues Fairy]

I think you appreciate such men as much as I appreciate cats.  What would you do if a man failed with a joke?

Some men are so cute even I can forgive their silliness.  

[Gator]

I would say my humor is mostly pretty 'dry' or even british...

Although British humor can be slapstick (many of the Monty Python skits), the educated Londoner humor is close to Russian humor.  Just be sarcastic.

If a RW says she likes cats, don't respond with "I like cats too.  Lets get together and share recipes."

[Gator]

Some men are so cute even I can forgive their silliness. 

PTL, there's hope.

[janic]

Although British humor can be slapstick (many of the Monty Python skits), the educated Londoner humor is close to Russian humor.  Just be sarcastic.

If a RW says she likes cats, don't respond with "I like cats too.  Lets get together and share recipes."

Lol, in any normal conversation (read: conversation with a FSUW) I would elaborate on why I prefer cats over dogs...
I see, I've to work on my attitude.

Btw: Once I pi*ed a woman off while we had dinner in a restaurant. There was a screaming baby closeby and she said to me smth like "Look at the baby" and I replied "Yeah, it still fits into the microwave"...  :evil:

[Blues Fairy]

There was a screaming baby closeby and she said to me smth like "Look at the baby" and I replied "Yeah, it still fits into the microwave"...  :evil:

My husband keeps speculating how much an international adoption would cost and if we could raise the $$ by selling our own baby.  :evil:

[SANDRO43]

Although British humor can be slapstick (many of the Monty Python skits)

I wouldn't call it slapstick, but surreal :

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_u7VGiMO0U[/youtube]

[Daveman]

How about writing a short engaging letter with some humor in it, instead of this longspun bore of an introduction?  
And I completely agree with Aloe regarding questions.  

Perhaps instead of choosing women who don't speak English and write skeleton-like profiles, you might want to look at those who are actually able to put two words together.  

This is absolutely key, IMO.  Humor goes a long way.  

What I do which seems to have good results in generating replies is to give a bief wacky intro of myself, then take her profile sort of line by line and point out similarities between us, ask several questions about her interests, and crack jokes about myself, life, the universe.

"Hi, I'm Dave... it all began many years ago in a dark and warm embryo...blah blah...  monkey experiment gone awry... blah blah... one smile from me will scare away all spiders and insects in the area.... blah blah... "

Then mention what you have in common from her profile, bit by bit, and ask her opinions and thoughts about what is there, and about other things which are related.... and as BF mentions, engage her.   If you put a smile on her face while she's reading, it's almost guaranteed that she'll reply -- if she likes your photos.

I write some wacky intro letters for sure, but for some reason they do seem to get a very nice response rate.  

[NJ]

What I don't get, is what you mean with "description of your current lifestyle". It would be nice if you would elaborate a bit on this.

Janic by current lifestyle I mean all the activities and the environment you seem every day. It includes your work (occupation, work schedule), couple words about the area you are living in (big\small city, cold\warm weather etc), the way you spend your free time and finally other things that are extremely important to you(family, children, hobbies, travelling).

[Gator]

I wouldn't call it slapstick, but surreal :

My fault.  I confused Benny Hill with Monty Python.  As different as night and day.

Monty is brilliant at times thanks to John Cleese.  The parrot sketch is indeed a classic.  Among my favorites are Mr. Creosote, Irish vs. Protestant Couple, Grim Reaper, Jesus opening the window...

Fawlty Towers was entertaining.  Although not Monty Python, Cleese with kevin Kline in a Fish Name Wanda  had me ROFL.

[Mir]

Few months ago John Cleese hosted Royal Variety Show and mentioned the retirement of George W Bush, then went on to say W stands for 'What A BLOODY DISASTER'

Another good comedy was the Black Adder series with Rowan Atkinson.

A new good comedian is Omid Djalili (British-Iranian)

[Ade]

Few months ago John Cleese hosted Royal Variety Show and mentioned the retirement of George W Bush, then went on to say W stands for 'What A BLOODY DISASTER'

Another good comedy was the Black Adder series with Rowan Atkinson.

A new good comedian is Omid Djalili (British-Iranian)

A few of the best comedians from over our way, Dave Allen (on "giving up smoking")

[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4cT-BQLX6nU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4cT-BQLX6nU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

And Billy Connelly (on "women's demands") Oh damn, that one is hilarious and so very apt. Be prepared for the, um, adult language.

[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sXit0FTxa1U&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sXit0FTxa1U&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

[elliott]

If a RW says she likes cats, don't respond with "I like cats too.  Lets get together and share recipes."

Actually Gator, I think that could be very funny.  It would tell you right away what kind of wit and humor she has if she responds with something like "Mmmm...roasted cat with lemon and garlic seasonings is my favorite."  It would also clue you in to her humor if she doesn't understand the joke, or if she's offended.

[kryten41]

Lol, in any normal conversation (read: conversation with a FSUW) I would elaborate on why I prefer cats over dogs...

I wouldn't assume she likes cats better than dogs.  Some men prefer cats.  Some women prefer dogs.  Some like ferrets best.

[myrddin]

b) I would say my humor is mostly pretty 'dry' or even british...

Splunge!

Yes, but IMO it would sound extremely lame if I would write "I like the pleasant expression in your eyes"... 

Yeah, women hate to read stuff like that.  Maybe relate it to what she was looking at that's so pleasant, or pick a better adjective than "pleasant".  Tough to be really general about this sort of thing, especially when the whole point is to pick something specific about this one woman you're interested in.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me. Explain pls.

Use her letters as a guideline to her "attention span".  Don't write a really long letter to her unless she's written one to you.

Hm, I don't feel comfortable with a translator, even if I've given it recently some more thoughts. Rather I would like to have a ghostwriter, but than it wouldn't be ME who writes...

At least you considered it  .

Avoid ghostwriting.  Advice is one thing, but you can't outsource the process.

Of course, but that was my point, when I started this thread: When the profile only provides scarce information I have no clue what she eventually could be passionate about....

Start with what your own interests, try to relate it to her somehow.  Or write to women with fuller profiles.  I don't recall ever writing to someone with nothing to interest me in the wordy part of the profile.

What worries me is the IMO extremely high drop-off rate after about < 5 messages.

I wouldn't worry about a drop off rate as long as it's not 100%.  There are many reasons women stop communicating. Once she decides to move on (for any reason), she's not gonna invest more time. 

A couple women disappeared on me after meeting in person (hmm, that could make me sound bad, there was communication after meeting, and no obvious reason for the disappearance.)   Maybe my cat recipes didn't include enough garlic.

[janic]

Splunge!

Lol, I learned a new word....

Use her letters as a guideline to her "attention span".  Don't write a really long letter to her unless she's written one to you.

Now I get you. Thanks.
A useful hint, but

I wouldn't worry about a drop off rate as long as it's not 100%.  There are many reasons women stop communicating. Once she decides to move on (for any reason), she's not gonna invest more time.

Well, it's pretty irritating to say "Hello!", get a reply on that and not to get any answer on my reply-on-her-reply. It recently just happened much too many times to be ignored and so I opend this thread.

At least you considered it  .

Let me share my thoughts about using translators, because it comes down to two major reasons:
a) I was to quite some countries and even when I always already knew some of the language or were able to quickly acquire a good knowledge of it I needed many times the assistance of a translator. Of all the many ones I used up only two were what I would call a good translator. They were able to get in the target-language extremely close to what I was saying. But still with these two I had (have, bcause with one I'm currently working) to pay quite some attention what he was saying and sometimes correct them. The rest of my experiences with translators was disappointing or even disastrous, like in one case where I had to fire my translator during a court-session while I was giving a sworn testimony and had to continue without assistance of a interpreter. And believe me, this douchebag wasn't the worst one I met in my life and all of them were upper-class certified translators.
b) But lets assume I would hire a translator. He/she assists me with my profile, with the introductionary letter, with the correspondence, the phone-calls and even participates in the first couple of meetings. But than what? Shall the interpreter move in with us and we open up a happy community? Well, unless the interpreter is a she and my fiancée is very much into threesomes probably rather not.
So, then why should I hire a translator at all? To make a better (and false) impression? - I already do worry using too much time, dictionary, spell- and grammar-checking in what I write in Russian. But thats still me, because even if it doesn't reflects my true writing skills (and I do mention this always) it still shows that I'm willing and able to put an effort into what I'm doing.
And for the rest I'm very happy that I have ppl here who care helping me when I've some question. (Btw: Thanks to all!)

Avoid ghostwriting.  Advice is one thing, but you can't outsource the process.

I would never do that. Wouldn't be me who writes.

Start with what your own interests, try to relate it to her somehow.  Or write to women with fuller profiles.  I don't recall ever writing to someone with nothing to interest me in the wordy part of the profile.

Well, I do write even to woman who decided not to write even a single word. I don't like it very much and maybe I should further limit it, but I find too many profiles which are still interesting enough.

Maybe my cat recipes didn't include enough garlic.

You should consider adding some mice-powder. It adds a nice contrast to the cat-taste...

Greets,
j.

[SANDRO43]

Lol, I learned a new word....j.

But do you know its 'etymology' ?

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v0I4OQi7CQ[/youtube]

[janic]

But do you know its 'etymology' ?

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v0I4OQi7CQ[/youtube]

Yep, I learned about it through google....

Btw: What I don't understand is, why your youtube-link isn't visible unless I quote your post...  ???

[ECOCKS]

2 cents worth with a 100% discount

Write a profile which describes yourself and what you are looking for. This should give you plenty to talk about through the course of the first 2-3 conversations.

As for an opening, you can start by introducing yourself and referring judiciously (just a little bit) to your profile for illustration. If you really want a script, you can try something like this:

Hi <insert her name here>, my name is <insert yout name here> and I just wanted to take a moment and express interest in the way you describe yourself/present yourself in your pictures or something similar. A short paragraph which concludes with, something like, "so please let me know if you would like to explore whether there is any interest in getting to know each other" should suffice nicely as an opening gambit. Invite her to talk about or expand a couple of things from her profile. Could be interest in music, sports, literature, travel, etc. You're looking for common ground.

Hope this helps.

[myrddin]

Yep, I learned about it through google....

Btw: What I don't understand is, why your youtube-link isn't visible unless I quote your post...  ???

Nor do I, but I'd have posted it myself if I wasn't so lazy. Thankfully Sandro was there to pick up the slack 

[janic]

2 cents worth with a 100% discount

Write a profile which describes yourself and what you are looking for. This should give you plenty to talk about through the course of the first 2-3 conversations.

As for an opening, you can start by introducing yourself and referring judiciously (just a little bit) to your profile for illustration. If you really want a script, you can try something like this:

Hi <insert her name here>, my name is <insert yout name here> and I just wanted to take a moment and express interest in the way you describe yourself/present yourself in your pictures or something similar. A short paragraph which concludes with, something like, "so please let me know if you would like to explore whether there is any interest in getting to know each other" should suffice nicely as an opening gambit. Invite her to talk about or expand a couple of things from her profile. Could be interest in music, sports, literature, travel, etc. You're looking for common ground.

Hope this helps.

Yep, it helps imagining variations of what I usually write. Tnx! And no I neither want nor need a script. Wouldn't be me at all....

But somehow I've the feeling that I wasn't able to express myself sufficiently when I opened this thread: It's not about the 'Hi, would you like to...' but about what follows immediately after it.
So let me give you a better example:
Profile: http://freepersonals.ru/profile?id=318991; (I just picked one that is exemplary. Picture with no background, no meaningful text at all. For the sake of this example we will assume two things:
a) Instead of "Occupation:   работаю" there is a "Occupation:   lawyer" and I'm interested in lawyers
b) I feel attracted to that lady... ... We only assume!  :evil: )

I write her:

Приветик Наталя! Я видел твою анкету и хотел бы познакомиться с тебе.
Если ты имеешь интерес знакомиться со мной, пиши мне. До скорого? ___

There is nothing else that comes to my mind, because there nothing at all in the profile that I could use.

She replies:

Hi....

Yeah, that's a real answer I got. And it's not the only one that is so dam* short.

I send her smth in reply. Lets even say it's the message I posted at the beginning of this thread.

She: drops off. Never heard of again.

Well, possibly I should just assume that such short contacts just show that the woman is even more incapable of starting a conversation than I am and therefor not worthy to spend a single thought on. But should I assume so?

[janic]

May I kindly ask for your thoughts (rather perception than grammar) about that phrase?:

"Если мода, украшение, домашнее хозяйство и клубы являются приоритетами в твоей жизни, то мы вероятно не гармонируемы, так как я ищу женщину и никакую щеголиху; сам умею хорошо варить и - к сожалению - не умею танцевать. Но, если ты являешься веселой, образованной и независимой девочкой, которой родители всегда сказали что ты сорванец и надеваешь слишком часто брюки, тогда есть хороший шанс, что мы совместимы."

Thanks in advance for any feedback you will offer me!

[SANDRO43]

Btw: What I don't understand is, why your youtube-link isn't visible unless I quote your post...  ???

Nor do I, but I'd have posted it myself if I wasn't so lazy.

No idea, I can see it alright .

[jdk1963]

You could always just say, "Hello I'm the man from Nantucket. Nice to meet you!"   

[Ade]

She replies: Yeah, that's a real answer I got. And it's not the only one that is so dam* short.

Dude, if she responds with just a polite "hi" and nothing more after you've introduced yourself and expressed an interest there's a damn good chance it can be interpreted as "sorry dude, I'm not really interested but I'm being polite and at least saying hi".

Seriously, stick to the ones that have a reasonable profile written; if they're too lazy or can't be bothered to write they aren't that serious anyway.