One woman's opinion of Elena's models

[Sculpto]

I don't think that I ever feel like that. That makes me rather sad, that's it. Is there any difference for EM who is paying, men or women? For them, I was a potential paying client.

Thats almost my point Lily.  There are lots of ladies capable of paying but for whatever reason the owners of these sites choose to let women on for free and overcharge the men.  It doesnt seem like a sustainable business model to me.

[Faux Pas]

Thats almost my point Lily.  There are lots of ladies capable of paying but for whatever reason the owners of these sites choose to let women on for free and overcharge the men.  It doesnt seem like a sustainable business model to me.

You don't seem to recognize the laws of supply and demand

[KraftSport5034]

However, the fact that some ( not all) RW's expect a"serious" man to jump on a plane and rush over asap is ridiculous. Some of us have to save our vacation time, and money, and allow for all of the normal issues to be handled while in the UKR or RUS. And the trip itself- not exactly a quick 3 day getaway, wouldn't you agree? I do however think that 6 months is enough to ask anyone to wait before getting on that plane, and after that you are either stroking them or yourself and shouldn't even be in this game.

[Lily]

You don't seem to recognize the laws of supply and demand

Would you Faux Pas please elaborate how the laws of supply and demand apply to this particular situation? I am curious.

[Taz]

I think FP is saying that more WM are in a position to pay for this service than RW/UW. Should I roll out a qualifier her to make it apparent this doesn't apply to ALL foreign men or ALL Russian women. This really is one of the things that people seem to get hung up on here. In general most EM or AM have more disposable income and are in a better situation to pay for these services than RW/UW.

[Lily]

Taz, I am not saying that women should pay at EM. I am saying that EM should probably consider a paid option for women in order to get some additional advantages on site, like making their letters free for the men to read, for instance. This is just an additional source of business income, I agree with Sculpto that it wouldn't be reasonable from the business point of view to renounce this income. What business does not want to increase their cash flow, I wonder?

As for the argument that most RW cannot afford this, well, I am almost sure that RW throw out much more money  each month for cosmetics, clothes, books, entertainment and all kind of things like that, in comparison to eventual EM charges. Especially if we speak about disposable income.

[ECOCKS]

Would you Faux Pas please elaborate how the laws of supply and demand apply to this particular situation? I am curious.

Actually, I believe that FP is pointing out to Sculpto that the laws of Supply and Demand are what make this a working business model for the agency owners.

[Gator]

Thats almost my point Lily.  There are lots of ladies capable of paying but for whatever reason the owners of these sites choose to let women on for free and overcharge the men.  It doesnt seem like a sustainable business model to me.

Considering the very small percentage of men who eventually take a trip to the FSU, the EM business model is about delivering a fantasy, not facilitating introductions and marriage.   Men in pursuit of a fantasy will spend money.  Consequently, businesses such as EM have done okay so far, and will continue to do so as long as men receive attention from pretty women who, if residing in America, would not give the same men the time of day. 

[Gator]

As for the argument that most RW cannot afford this, well, I am almost sure that RW throw out much more money  each month for cosmetics, clothes, books, entertainment and all kind of things like that, in comparison to eventual EM charges. Especially if we speak about disposable income.

True. 

Let's assume that a RW could have a paying membership at EM, would the EM men be the best men to pursue?  Most are not serious (defined as willing and capable of taking a trip to the FSU with the intent of marriage).  Would a higher percentage of men at eHarmony or Yahoopersonal or matchmaker be serious enough to eventually take a trip to the FSU even though the concept of a RW is not even on their mind?

Lily,

How many men are members of EM?  I can not open such data sources.

[boaterguy]

Thats almost my point Lily.  There are lots of ladies capable of paying but for whatever reason the owners of these sites choose to let women on for free and overcharge the men.  It doesnt seem like a sustainable business model to me.

LOL, Have you never seen bars that have Lady's Night? Can't say I,ve ever seen a men's night! Perhaps since their are supposedly more women than men in the FSU their bars have men's night?

[Lily]

Let's assume that a RW could have a paying membership at EM, would the EM men be the best men to pursue?  Most are not serious (defined as willing and capable of taking a trip to the FSU with the intent of marriage).  Would a higher percentage of men at eHarmony or Yahoopersonal or matchmaker be serious enough to eventually take a trip to the FSU even though the concept of a RW is not even on their mind?

Lily,

How many men are members of EM?  I can not open such data sources.

My belief is that EM does not offer to RW any better pond to fish for men than EHarmony or others, if we see it from a RW point of view. The Western sites can however ban Russians from registering, in this regard EM beats the competition.

An introduction of a pay option would not indeed make EM male members the best to pursue, but may eventually push them to react to the ladies' letters. As I wrote earlier, some do no bother to react at all, leaving a woman to guessing on reasons.

No idea how many men are on EM. My profile is hidden and I don't think I will renew it, so I don't visit EM. As far as I now there are no automatic count.

[myrddin]

I am saying that EM should probably consider a paid option for women in order to get some additional advantages on site, like making their letters free for the men to read, for instance. This is just an additional source of business income, I agree with Sculpto that it wouldn't be reasonable from the business point of view to renounce this income. What business does not want to increase their cash flow, I wonder?

I wonder the same thing.  Lavalife used to (maybe still, haven't been there in awhile) allow free profiles and charge for actual contacts, but men or women could pre-pay the response "postage", kind of like an electronic "self-addressed stamped envelope".  Still no guarantee of a response, but certainly more likely.  

I'd think EM would be perfectly willing to take money from RW willing to pay for something like that, even if the bulk of their profits will always come from men.

[SANDRO43]

No idea how many men are on EM.

Just did a Search there, setting range parameters to their widest and other parameters to Not  Important:

- Men:  205 pages (100 profiles/page) = 20,500
- Women:  70 pages (100 profiles/page) = 7,000

It'd seem there are almost 3 times as many men as women on EM .

[Misha]

LOL, Have you never seen bars that have Lady's Night? Can't say I,ve ever seen a men's night! Perhaps since their are supposedly more women than men in the FSU their bars have men's night?

Depending on the city in Russia, every night is a men's night  In my wife's city, there are often two or three times as many women in a nightclub as there are men. It, however, has a reputation of being a "city of brides."

As to the fact that there are more women than men in Russia, Paul Goble has an interesting piece where he presents some translated information from a Russian newspaper article. He writes:

"According the Moscow daily, there are currently a total of 22 million men aged 20 to 40, the prime age cohorts for new fathers. “Of these,” however, “about 700,000 are in prison, 2.1 million are registered alcoholics—and how many of those are uncounted,” the paper asks. And there are 2.5 million drug addicts. As result, 5.3 million potential fathers are not really available."

Source: http://windowoneurasia.blogspot.com/2009/06/window-on-eurasia-high-mortality-among.html

[Blues Fairy]

I am saying that EM should probably consider a paid option for women in order to get some additional advantages on site, like making their letters free for the men to read, for instance. This is just an additional source of business income

Making letters free to read = additional income for EM? 
I don't think charging you a fee will compensate for this loss.

[Sculpto]

You don't seem to recognize the laws of supply and demand

uh.. on the contrary.. there are how many millions of PEOPLE on a certain Russian language dating site?  Users: 11,230,387, New: 47,022, Now online: 84,751

Plenty of ladies PAYING to be VIP on that site.  Guess what, they all have their own computers too and MANY of them speak English and one other very valuable fact.. if they are looking for a sponsor they can state so in their profile, and many do.  If they just want a vacation they can search for that too.. makes things a lot more clear.

Then, go the agency route and it is the same 40 or 50,000 women on all the sites.. some with profiles and photos five years old or more.  And then of course the 18 year old hotties willing to marry up to 60 year old men.

You guys keep wanting to waste money on an outmoded model that gives all the advantages to cheaters and scammers.. go right ahead.  But then again I suppose it is a big ego stroke to get a letter from some superhotkova who is required by her TOS to reply to EVERY letter she gets.. even if she isn't interested, for the purpose of generating MORE revenue for the site.

it is true though that the response rate is a lot lower than it is from marriage agencies.. but.. see above.  Reality is a beetch.

Personally I would rather get one honest reply for every 20 letters I send then to get 20 BS replies to every letter.  That is, if I was still looking.

[Sculpto]

Depending on the city in Russia, every night is a men's night  In my wife's city, there are often two or three times as many women in a nightclub as there are men. It, however, has a reputation of being a "city of brides."

You understand what is going on in the nightclubs right?  Sex, drugs and rock and roll.. oh and recruitment and "persuassion" to provide "services".  Just look at the Hungry Duck site and reviews and you get the idea, even though, that sleazy place is focused on the expat community, the concept of getting ladies drunk and whipped up into a frenzy with male strippers is common in almost every nightclub around.  Seeing gorgeous ladies dancing alone in front of mirrored walls really illuminates the whole sordid deal.

[Misha]

You understand what is going on in the nightclubs right?  Sex, drugs and rock and roll.. oh and recruitment and "persuassion" to provide "services". 

Sculpto, you do let your imagination get the best of you at times. Here is a secret, most Russian women that I know like to dance. Many, will go out with their friends to a night club or café/restaurant with a dance floor to dance. Much like they do in North America. I can't say anything about the expat pubs in Moscow, but I can affirm that there are some decent places where somebody can go just to spend some time with friends and dance.

[Misha]

uh.. on the contrary.. there are how many millions of PEOPLE on a certain Russian language dating site?  Users: 11,230,387, New: 47,022, Now online: 84,751

Before, men had an excuse as it was all in Russian, now they even have an English version. If you go to singles.ru and scroll down, you will see a English (UK) link that will bring you to the English version of the site.

[Sculpto]

Sculpto, you do let your imagination get the best of you at times. Here is a secret, most Russian women that I know like to dance. Many, will go out with their friends to a night club or café/restaurant with a dance floor to dance. Much like they do in North America. I can't say anything about the expat pubs in Moscow, but I can affirm that there are some decent places where somebody can go just to spend some time with friends and dance.

I know Misha.. my GF took me to just such a place.. no alcohol.. they only served tea.. very relaxed and about an equal number of men and women.. but.. there are plenty of the other type of nightclubs.. when in Donetsk with the Nigerians every club they took me too was like that.  They would point out the gangsters in the private booths and which girls were "employed" and so on.  Nothing was a simple as it would have seemed had I walked in alone.

[Sculpto]

Before, men had an excuse as it was all in Russian, now they even have an English version. If you go to singles.ru and scroll down, you will see a English (UK) link that will bring you to the English version of the site.

yup.. and even the ladies that don't speak English seem to know what translation sites to use.  It also shows when a person last signed on, how many views of their page in the past month and you can see who looked at your page which is really useful because a lot of ladies still wont write first.

Guys need to start using their noodle if they want to get past the agency BS.  Besides the site we are talking about there are many more sites out there and quite a few oriented to specific localities.  Learn to seach in Russian and how to use google translate or other translation engines.. english to russian.. back to english.. make corrections.. back to russian.. cut and paste in message window.. you don't have to be Einstein to figure it out.

[Misha]

They would point out the gangsters in the private booths and which girls were "employed" and so on. 

And? Again, you simply have to know where to go. Besides, the "gangsters" aren't really going to do anything to you, and you can always say no even if a woman offers you to sell her services   One must keep things into perspective. However, I see that your vision of the FSU was influenced by your Nigerian friends  

[Misha]

many more sites out there and quite a few oriented to specific localities

The mamba network (of which singles.ru is one site) allows you to search by city and in Moscow by neighborhood.

[groovlstk]

.. if they are looking for a sponsor they can state so in their profile, and many do.  If they just want a vacation they can search for that too.. makes things a lot more clear.

When I was using Russian dating sites I was shocked at how open some of the less marriage-minded women were. If they're looking for a sugar daddy they have no problem being clear about it in their profiles.

[Sculpto]

And? Again, you simply have to know where to go. Besides, the "gangsters" aren't really going to do anything to you, and you can always say no even if a woman offers you to sell her services   One must keep things into perspective. However, I see that your vision of the FSU was influenced by your Nigerian friends  

Of course the gangsters aren't going to do anything.. unless you walk up to their table uninvited.. that would be rather stupid.

The hookers NEVER approached.  I was told the process requires the man to approach and make the proposition.  I DID NOT indulge since most of the time the Nigerians brought women they knew to accompany us.. but.. I will say those girls really enjoyed the male strippers.. kind of freaked me out.

The Nigerians had one perspective of things.. the Ukrainians I hung out with had a different one since their economy was quite different than that of the Nigerians.  With the Ukrainians we hung out in the square and strolled around like the thousands of other people in the square every night.  Those girls were not going to nightclubs even on a weekly basis and when I invited them they were really excited and acted with real class in the club, arranging the fruit and snacks and keeping the juice glasses full and asking to dance every slow song.  It was a very different experience than what I had with the Nigerians.  However, my point was.. when corresponding on the internet you really just don't know what your love interest is doing when she isn't responding to your love letters.  I would also propose that the nightclubs are major recruiting grounds for young women to join agencies.. think about it.. where else are you going to find a lot of pretty young ladies all in one place who might be open to getting free glamour shots done in exchange for adding their profile?