One woman's opinion of Elena's models

[janic]

now they even have an English version.

Unfortunately. Nowadays I see more and more foreigners showing up there and in the time the amount of remarks like "Foreigners please walk on" on the womans profiles raises too. The place is starting to get littered. I think I've to hurry up with what I'm doing... 

[Sculpto]

When I was using Russian dating sites I was shocked at how open some of the less marriage-minded women were. If they're looking for a sugar daddy they have no problem being clear about it in their profiles.

Absolutely correct.  I remember one I had written who was looking for a vacation to a 5 star resort.. I was just curious about the mentality.. she told me she hated "losers" from the provinces and that some man had just given her a new BMW.. for some girls it is simply their job to be a beautiful bracelet.  

I also wrote to one who was looking for a small group to go on vacation.. she was offering to pay for everyone.. so there are all types and every variable combination of values.  

But, it is nice that such information is spoken about openly unlike on many agency sites with the censorship and obfuscation of intent.

[Misha]

I would also propose that the nightclubs are major recruiting grounds for young women to join agencies.. think about it.. where else are you going to find a lot of pretty young ladies all in one place who might be open to getting free glamour shots done in exchange for adding their profile?

Again, I was in cities in Russia where there were no agencies of any kind to speak of. Just a lot of normal young people (and the occasional somewhat less than normal ones as well  ) doing what young people do everywhere: going out with friends to dance and talk. Nothing truly sinister there.

[Misha]

When I was using Russian dating sites I was shocked at how open some of the less marriage-minded women were. If they're looking for a sugar daddy they have no problem being clear about it in their profiles.

I like this. I knew right away which women to avoid.

[Sculpto]

Unfortunately. Nowadays I see more and more foreigners showing up there and in the time the amount of remarks like "Foreigners please walk on" on the womans profiles raises too. The place is starting to get littered. I think I've to hurry up with what I'm doing... 

Yes you are right.. but I will add this from research on social networks.. this is going to sound bad and it is absolutely not my intent to cast a negative light on any race.. but.. there are a lot more arabs and turks "competing" for the attention of FSUW than is obvious from this forum and I think the "Foreigners please walk on" message is aimed at them.  This comes from recent research on several different social networking sites where I maintain profiles for the purpose of learning more about the FSUW mentality.  I get advice and give it.  Simply people helping people.

[Misha]

Unfortunately. Nowadays I see more and more foreigners showing up there and in the time the amount of remarks like "Foreigners please walk on" on the womans profiles raises too. The place is starting to get littered. I think I've to hurry up with what I'm doing... 

It is all a numbers game. Given the number of women on the site, you can never truly exhaust the possibilities and if you send out enough messages, eventually you will get women who are interested. Given that it is free, you can easily sending out thousands of messages at no cost (other than your own time of course).

[Sculpto]

I like this. I knew right away which women to avoid.

yeah it makes everything clear.

BTW.. the search function also allows you to search other countries and regions.  Many ladies who would like to live in another place put "Baltimore or Sacramento or Sydney" in their locations so they get "hits" from men searching those locations.  I have talked to many who had work travel visas or even tourist visas or who had already been to the US on vacation.  Some of them change their locations frequently.  Many also state clearly they are only looking for a pen pal.  

I also avoided any profile that had only one photo and nothing written in the profile.  The site is not scammer free.. the YO and Nigerians do some "phishing" there and there has been some amount of spam.  But, you can report scam/spam profiles and they seem to get removed really fast.  Faster than on agency sites.. go figure..

But, I am going to say it again.. the response rate is a lot lower than on agency sites.  The ladies have no obligation to respond and will only do so if they are really interested.  Keeping them interested is  a lot harder as well.  If they really like you they will ask very quickly in the correspondence if you intend to visit.  But, I think all that is a good thing.

[Sculpto]

It is all a numbers game. Given the number of women on the site, you can never truly exhaust the possibilities and if you send out enough messages, eventually you will get women who are interested. Given that it is free, you can easily sending out thousands of messages at no cost (other than your own time of course).

Again spot on.  Also, look how many new members there are!  I first signed up on that network about two years ago.. it has more than doubled in size in that amount of time.  I expect it to continue on that pace for along time as more and more people are becoming first time web users.

just a little suggestion/strategy.. at one point I searched obscure places like Samarkand and wrote a short intro to a bunch of ladies there.. maybe about 20.. got about an 80% response rate.  Mostly curiosity on the part of the ladies but if I had been able to travel I certainly could have had a small army of lovely ladies waiting for me at the train station in Samarkand.. I was curious about that location after reading about it and seeing many photos and the ladies were very impressed I knew about their historic little city.. I think there are thousands of obscure localities worthy of searching that are full of ladies who have little or no idea that they could be contacted by a foreign man.

[Faux Pas]

Would you Faux Pas please elaborate how the laws of supply and demand apply to this particular situation? I am curious.

Sure!   I feel confident most sites that have both WM and FSUW profiles on their site will show more men than women searching for a partner. It is also very convenient in that the WM have the lion share of disposable income  and willing to spend it in this particular pursuit. Any good marketeer worth their salt is going to target the cherry pickings first. The WM plainly and simply have more money than the FSUW and willing to spend it. Some plan to make the trip and some merely fantasize about it but, both are willing to spend it.

That said, yes, if I was EM and there were services I could offer and charge RW for that didn't conflict with my business  of the cash cow of WM, I would certainly offer it and charge them as well. Lily, there is an old American saying, "spending a dime to make a nickel makes no sense".

[janic]

Yes you are right.. [...] but.. there are a lot more arabs and turks "competing" for the attention of FSUW than is obvious from this forum and I think the "Foreigners please walk on" message is aimed at them.

Partly ur right. But if it's against turks or muslims (which is the majority of the 'no thanks' remarks than it's clearly stated. But the amount of general 'no foreigners' or 'no western man' remarks is raising too. - When I found the first mamba site in ~2006 I didn't stumbled over even a single 'no westerners' statement. Now it's already I would say ~1-2%...

I get advice and give it.  Simply people helping people.

As you certainly will have realized, I'm not from the US. There's a reason why I joined this board. Ppl here might be - how someone phrased it shortly ago? - bitey, but I would consider most of the board members to be good people who deserve to have success and FSUW wouldn't make a bad catch marrying one of them. But I can tell you that in the WM-chasing-FSUW cUmmunity of my hemisphere are so many jerks that I'm _very_ cautious in giving advises.

[janic]

The site is not scammer free..

Can't comfirm that. Never met one there.

there has been some amount of spam.

Yep, agree.

Keeping them interested is  a lot harder as well.

Yep! - I've experienced that  :/

But, I think all that is a good thing.

Wouldn't strongly disagree...

Again spot on.

Of course misha is right. But it's not only about numbers. As I said before: Too many jerks out there and negative experiences spread pretty fast.

[...] I searched obscure places like Samarkand and wrote a short intro to a bunch of ladies there.. maybe about 20.. got about an 80% response rate.

Psshht. Don't reveal all of the nice strategies... LOL!

[Faux Pas]

uh.. on the contrary.. there are how many millions of PEOPLE on a certain Russian language dating site?  Users: 11,230,387, New: 47,022, Now online: 84,751

Plenty of ladies PAYING to be VIP on that site.  Guess what, they all have their own computers too and MANY of them speak English and one other very valuable fact.. if they are looking for a sponsor they can state so in their profile, and many do.  If they just want a vacation they can search for that too.. makes things a lot more clear.

Then, go the agency route and it is the same 40 or 50,000 women on all the sites.. some with profiles and photos five years old or more.  And then of course the 18 year old hotties willing to marry up to 60 year old men.

You guys keep wanting to waste money on an outmoded model that gives all the advantages to cheaters and scammers.. go right ahead.  But then again I suppose it is a big ego stroke to get a letter from some superhotkova who is required by her TOS to reply to EVERY letter she gets.. even if she isn't interested, for the purpose of generating MORE revenue for the site.

it is true though that the response rate is a lot lower than it is from marriage agencies.. but.. see above.  Reality is a beetch.

Personally I would rather get one honest reply for every 20 letters I send then to get 20 BS replies to every letter.  That is, if I was still looking.

As I am sure you'll expect, I think you are full of pooh. Up to the gills   I don't know what site you are citing but, take Elena's as an example. There are 3 times as many men on EM. Think of the $300 it takes to be a full fledged member and use all of the services ($300 is just an ex. as I don't remember how much it was). Suppose there are only 400 members total. 300 men and 100 women. Who is your target? 300 men ready willing and more specifically ABLE to pay the required $300 or the 100 women of which maybe only 5-10% are CAPABLE of paying? 100 women who will have to save up for several months and likely won't renew or 300 men who can enter a debit or credit card, pay instantly and most likely will renew.

The ladies PAYING to be a VIP on the sites you mention are generally paying in the terms of $20-$30 per period. If EM could offer them services that didn't conflict with the WMs requirements, I am sure they would collect that $20-$30 as well.

Something you fail to understand here is the current model isn't outdated for the WM. Perhaps for the FSUW I don't know, I can't speak for them as you do so freely and without thought.

Your previous remark reeked of feminism as if the WM has been elevated and the FSUW have been trampled on in the agencies and likely it is true. But the bottom line is, your majority FSUW cannot afford the costs of the entire process from cradle to grave and show no signs of paying for it even if they could. If you are opening an agency and you wish for profit and paying customers, go where the money is.

[Sculpto]

As I am sure you'll expect, I think you are full of pooh. Up to the gills   I don't know what site you are citing but, take Elena's as an example. There are 3 times as many men on EM. Think of the $300 it takes to be a full fledged member and use all of the services ($300 is just an ex. as I don't remember how much it was). Suppose there are only 400 members total. 300 men and 100 women. Who is your target? 300 men ready willing and more specifically ABLE to pay the required $300 or the 100 women of which maybe only 5-10% are CAPABLE of paying? 100 women who will have to save up for several months and likely won't renew or 300 men who can enter a debit or credit card, pay instantly and most likely will renew.

The ladies PAYING to be a VIP on the sites you mention are generally paying in the terms of $20-$30 per period. If EM could offer them services that didn't conflict with the WMs requirements, I am sure they would collect that $20-$30 as well.

Something you fail to understand here is the current model isn't outdated for the WM. Perhaps for the FSUW I don't know, I can't speak for them as you do so freely and without thought.

Your previous remark reeked of feminism as if the WM has been elevated and the FSUW have been trampled on in the agencies and likely it is true. But the bottom line is, your majority FSUW cannot afford the costs of the entire process from cradle to grave and show no signs of paying for it even if they could. If you are opening an agency and you wish for profit and paying customers, go where the money is.

Faux.. you can think what you want but the reality is you are close minded about it.  I dont care if EM or any other agency site makes a profit or not.. what i care about is being able to communicate with REAL PEOPLE and helping guys achieve that goal.  EM as far as the agency model goes is superior than 99% of the others, but, it is still overpriced because you can get the same thing, in much greater number of potential ladies, for free.  The marketeers of agencies are the only ones that want you to believe otherwise.

[Sculpto]

Can't comfirm that. Never met one there.
Yep, agree.
Yep! - I've experienced that  :/
Wouldn't strongly disagree...
Of course misha is right. But it's not only about numbers. As I said before: Too many jerks out there and negative experiences spread pretty fast.
Psshht. Don't reveal all of the nice strategies... LOL!

I found one lady who stated in her profile she was coming to California.  When I asked her if she had her visa.. she told me she needed $3000.  Scammer or not?  But that was one out of hundreds of contacts.

Spam is spreading there.. thats how I found out about the new casual sex sites.  I have not signed up on those and will not.. but it appears to be a trend that is expanding very fast. 

LOL who the heck is going to travel to Samarkand?  I have it on my list of "must visit places" but purely as adventure travel.

[Sculpto]

this is a cut and pasted profile.. anything that could identify the lady has been removed.  I am posting it purely as an example of the kind of ladies I saw all the time on the mambo network.  BTW.. she is 44 and rather good looking.  My comments about her profile are in italic bold underline.  I also like the fact that there are detailed survey questions and a lot of people answer them.  It gives a much more complete view of the personality than I have ever seen on any "for pay" agency site.  There is also a space for blogging on every ladies page.  Lots of them use it.  You know what else?  You can see the men also.. you know who the "competition" is.. and if anyone has given a virtual gift.. you can see who that is also.  Everything is transparent and real. 

But.. you you are a pathetic muddy and slippery guy with no game or patience.. it isn't going to work for you.  Because NO ONE is FORCING the ladies to answer to men they have no interest in.

 About me
Женщина, которую не интересуют жалкие, мутные и скользкие...
Women who are not interested in the pathetic, muddy and slippery ...  that was a google translation as will be any other translations, if anyone wants to improve them go ahead
 I am looking for
I am seeking a:
Man aged 41-50 I see all kinds of age gap preferences.. seems the older they get the tighter the gap they want to accept

Who I want to find:
мужчину, с которым будет интересно и комфортно во всех отношениях.
man, which will be interesting and comfortable in all respects.

рост от 180

Looking for:
Love, relationship

Children:
Yes, we live apart

Marital status:
Single
 Description
Height, cm: 172

Occupation:
Кино, вино и домино...
Entertainment, wine and domino ...

Weight, kg: 85

Income:
High income / Well off
this is interesting isn't it?  I see a fairly large number of such declarations which are usually accompanied by the comment "not look for a sponsor or willing to be one"

Build:
Average

Accommodation:
Separate flat (rented or own)

Languages :
English
Русский

Hair colour:
White

My day regime:
I am a night owl (I like to stay up late)

Priorities in life:
Creative self-realisation
Maximum sex
Family, long-term relationship
Spiritual harmony
Material well-being
Career
looks like a nice lady.. her photos give the impression she is defintely aware of her sexual power and is "workin" it, also interesting that she puts sex above family.. lol she is "peaking" at 44


 Interests
What I will do in my free time :
Go for a walk
Read at home
Stay on my own
Go to the countryside
Surf the net
Work


Sport activities:
Walking
Fitness
Swimming

My interests :
Arts
Cinema
Music
Theatre

Favourite music styles:
Blues, Jazz
Ethnic, new-age
Classical
только высокое качество звука и исполнения..
Smoking:
No

Drinking habits :
Social drinker

 Car
Ford
 Telephone 
Nokia
 Sexual preferences
Sexual orientation: Heterosexual

My turn-ons:
мужчина+мозг и размер мозга, прежде всего, имеет значение.
+ man brain and brain size, especially, is important. I get the feeling there is something lost in this translation

[Faux Pas]

Faux.. you can think what you want but the reality is you are close minded about it.  I dont care if EM or any other agency site makes a profit or not.. what i care about is being able to communicate with REAL PEOPLE and helping guys achieve that goal.  EM as far as the agency model goes is superior than 99% of the others, but, it is still overpriced because you can get the same thing, in much greater number of potential ladies, for free.  The marketeers of agencies are the only ones that want you to believe otherwise.

Sculpt, this was just another one of your examples of stating your conclusion as fact and trying to back it up with some piece milled opinion. You do that quite often. Call me closed minded if you wish. It's no skin off my patootie. I see most things in money as black and white, I was trained that way. It's worked out well for me so far 

[Sculpto]

I see most things in money as black and white, I was trained that way. It's worked out well for me so far 

And that is exactly why we disagree so frequently Faux.. because the world is not black and white but an incredible array of colors and grey values.  I can see your point of view, but, you always miss mine.. so.. who really has something to learn from the other?  I am just sayin..

[janic]

I found one lady who stated in her profile she was coming to California.  When I asked her if she had her visa.. she told me she needed $3000.  Scammer or not?

I've my reason why I mostly stay away from profiles of FSUW who state that they are already in 'the West'. Lots of them have some issue with 'la Migra' and try to resolve it by quickly marrying a WM....

LOL who the heck is going to travel to Samarkand?  I have it on my list of "must visit places" but purely as adventure travel.

Isn't meeting a nice girl also kind of an andventure...? You [or smbdy] could have two adventures in one trip...

I also like the fact that there are detailed survey questions and a lot of people answer them.  It gives a much more complete view of the personality than I have ever seen on any "for pay" agency site.  There is also a space for blogging on every ladies page.  Lots of them use it.  You know what else?  You can see the men also.. you know who the "competition" is.. and if anyone has given a virtual gift.. you can see who that is also.  Everything is transparent and real.

Imo mamba has produced the most sophisticated dating-site-software on this planet. No doubt.
And they make money with it. And probably quite a lot of it. And they try to keep the system clear of spammers, scammers and other kinds of garbage.

But.. you you are a pathetic muddy and slippery guy with no game or patience.. it isn't going to work for you.  Because NO ONE is FORCING the ladies to answer to men they have no interest in.

Sculpto, pleease it's already too much. Thats not a level of communication I fancy.
And if it's really a urgent need you have, please take it to the 'pick on Sculpto' thread. (Btw: The same goes for you Faux Pas)

[janic]

Priorities in life:
Creative self-realisation
Maximum sex
Family, long-term relationship
Spiritual harmony
Material well-being
Career
looks like a nice lady.. her photos give the impression she is defintely aware of her sexual power and is "workin" it, also interesting that she puts sex above family.. lol she is "peaking" at 44

The order of the list is defined by the system and not by the user.

My turn-ons:
мужчина+мозг и размер мозга, прежде всего, имеет значение.
+ man brain and brain size, especially, is important. I get the feeling there is something lost in this translation

Better translation would be: "Man and brain. Brain goes in the first place."

[Sculpto]

The order of the list is defined by the system and not by the user.

I dont think so.. I am going to go test it now on my old profile.. just for the heck of it..

edit:  I cant tell for sure.. mine came up in the order I clicked.. I tried it three times..

[Sculpto]

Sculpto, pleease it's already too much. Thats not a level of communication I fancy.
And if it's really a urgent need you have, please take it to the 'pick on Sculpto' thread. (Btw: The same goes for you Faux Pas)

it was the general "you" not you Janic.. sorry if misinterpted..

[Faux Pas]

And that is exactly why we disagree so frequently Faux.. because the world is not black and white but an incredible array of colors and grey values.  I can see your point of view, but, you always miss mine.. so.. who really has something to learn from the other?  I am just sayin..

Numbers and the world of profit and loss is most generally black and white. Seldom a gray area or more specifically I try to keep my money away from the array of colors and the grays. You trying to teach me economics is like me trying to teach you how to sculpt. I've resigned myself that neither is possible. I don't always disagree with you but when I do I will point it out, like now. You have nothing to learn from me and have made that abundantly clear but, it's not for you that I point these things out. 

[Sculpto]

profit and loss is black and white.. but marketing is not.. nor is business development.. the later two are both creative endeavors that can have unpredictable results.  When agency sites get too motivated by profit and forget they are providing a service that is fundamental to human emotion there is a point at which an ethical line gets crossed.  Elenas on the surface does not appear to cross that line.. but it is on the border.  Again, it is another example of quantity over quality and easy money over actually providing a valuable service.  My only bone with Elenas was that it took so long to get off their spam email list.  It took harsh words.. several "please remove me" were ignored.  Marketing over quality.. its really a plague far beyond our little subculture.

[Turboguy]

Numbers and the world of profit and loss is most generally black and white. Seldom a gray area

I think that might have been true 50 years ago but I can't say I particularly agree with you any more.    Just think for a minute about Enron, many banks, and all the compan ies that have been in trouble lately.   Can you really say there wasn't a lot of black that was really grey or red.

  I dont care if EM or any other agency site makes a profit or not..

Personally when I find a company that provides me with a good service I really hope they make a profit.   Otherwise they won't be around much longer to provide that good service.

As far as the suggestion of having a premium service for the ladies that would let men open and / or respond to ladies my feelings on it are that it would not be a good deal for the ladies.   When I was a member of Elena's I had the platinum membership which let me open as many letters as I wanted and write as many women as I wanted.  The idea of a premium service would mostly generate letters from the free members and basic members who are probably mostly armchair romantics that never make a trip anyway.   If someone can't afford a membership that lets them read and respond to letters they probably are not all that serious.

[Aloe]

there is NO way that 10% of men are serious on EM, i was an active member for 3 years, its more like 1% of men are serious; at some point id agree to meet ANY guy who i remotely liked, because as experience showed, most of them werent gonna come over in any case, out of dozens who said they would come over, only 3 made it, and all 3 of them within 3 weeks of the first contact;
Sure they all sound serious, but in reality so few are