Ladies, Do you think of America as the "Land of the Free?"

[Ronnie]

the hypocrisy of those people makes me sick.  Separation of church and state is a basic freedom.  Worship however you want, but do not force me to worship your way.  There are not many things I have a black and white opinion on, but, that is one of them. 

Eric, Doesn't it affend your black and white sensibilities that you pay city taxes to a city that promotes the Catholic Church in it's very name - Saint Francis?  Or is it okay since it's in Spanish?

It wouldn't bother me in the least then, if the ACLU would sue each city and county in the country whose name, in Spanish, honors a Catholic saint.  Where's your consistency, amigo?

[Boethius]

Norway has an upper income tax rate of 45%.  And, they pay a value added tax in everything they buy. I'm told that 50% of the price of a new car is various taxes.  The Norwegian GDP is inflated due to nationized oil and gas industry (no qualms about drilling there - as long as it's the government doing it, eh?).

The top marginal rate in Norway is about 47.8%.  The combined top marginal rate in the US is a little over 45%.  Payroll taxes are slightly higher in the US.

Where the US has lost ground is in corporate tax rates, which now, are just as high as in many European jurisdictions, and higher than many.  With the theory of integration (i.e. as corporate taxes rise, personal taxes decrease because, in theory, it should not matter if income is earned personally or through a corporate entity), the US tax burden is, in many states, no lower than in many EU countries, including Norway and, in some cases, is actually higher.  I can tell you that the combined personal marginal/payroll US tax burden in many jurisdictions is already higher than comparable tax burdens in many Canadian provinces.

Public companies in Canada which had ceased residency for tax purposes are now reorganizing to reestablish Canadian residency (Delaware, the darling of tax planners, no longer cuts it) because the overall tax burden is lower.

In many European jurisdictions, including Norway, sales taxes are higher than comparable state taxes, but look at the services the population enjoys.

Don't forget, the US also has a luxury tax.

Now, on Norway's oil revenue, there are economists who have looked at this.  Here is one view.  

http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/1199

[Ade]

Norway has an upper income tax rate of 45%.  And, they pay a value added tax in everything they buy. I'm told that 50% of the price of a new car is various taxes.  The Norwegian GDP is inflated due to nationized oil and gas industry (no qualms about drilling there - as long as it's the government doing it, eh?).

Actually, upper tax bracket is higher - I pay 48% on a chunk of my income but it's banded so my overall income taxation last year was just 37.5%. But we don't have to pay exorbitant health insurance rates with companies that will screw us over the first chance they get, and we have, as standard, 5 weeks of paid holiday plus national holidays totalling as much as 2 weeks. In addition, my company gives us a week extra at Christmas. We have excellent infrastructure, roads, you name it. Quality of life here is awesome, poverty is hard to find and crime extremely low. Yes, Norway's economy has benefited from its natural resources but the economy has started to diversify a lot over the last few decades so it's not an issue.  

So yes, we pay a lof of taxes and the cost of living is high but it's well worth the price. You can keep your system and you're welcome to it thank you very much.

[boaterguy]

I have always said we "working"  Americans pay as much tax as the socialist type governments but we do not get the benifits the socialist's receive.  

[kievstar]

People need to consider the impact of Value added tax when looking at corporate income tax rates.  Can be 21% in Belgium.

Problem in America is 10% of the population pays 99.5% of the tax.  To many free loaders in USA.  Also, when people over spent the government gave them a handout.  Quality of healthcare will be like Canada and most of the EU which is not very good if we go socialism like Obama.  But for 60% of the population this will be better than the healthcare they get now.

USA people want cheap crappy healthcare.  Want bailouts for the millions to stupid to find a job.  The bad business models for companies get rewarded.  USA is going to be like many of the EU in 20 years - debt ridden and not able to pay for socialism.  2030's will be an interesting and tough time for people living in EU and USA.

[acrzybear]

.  Want bailouts for the millions to stupid to find a job.  The bad business models for companies get rewarded.  USA is going to be like many of the EU in 20 years - debt ridden and not able to pay for socialism. 

Of course good leadership also goes along way

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_banking_scandal

Can't pay your bills and hold a job-then fool enough people to vote for you and you to can have better retirement and healthcare then the majority of the population.


"America, is a nation without a distinct criminal class with the possible exception of Congress." Samuel Clemens

"Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate; now what's going to happen to us with both a Senate and a House?"  Will Rogers

"Our constitution protects aliens, drunks and U.S. Senators." Will Rogers

"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." John Kenneth Galbraith

"Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book." Ronald Reagan

"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."  Ronald Reagan

[Faux Pas]

the hypocrisy of those people makes me sick.  Separation of church and state is a basic freedom.  Worship however you want, but do not force me to worship your way.  There are not many things I have a black and white opinion on, but, that is one of them. 

Sculpt, That is a down right shame and a travesty! Who pray tell, has FORCED you to worship their way? Have you also been wife hunting in Saudi Arabia and Iran again?

[Sculpto]

Faux.. when I was FORCED to sing Christmas songs in public school and was then ostracized and beaten by gangs of Christian kids for being Jewish any hope of you winning that argument went out the window. 

The constitution is very clear.  Separation of Church and State.  No exceptions.

You want to put a cross on your front yard, be my guest, but, ANY religious iconography is out of place in any publicly owned venue.  Period, end of story.

[SANDRO43]

"Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate". Will Rogers

I don't know who this Will Rogers fellow is, but I can tell WHAT he is: a historical IGNORAMUS .

The Roman Senate was gradually deprived of any actual powers by Rome's first Emperor, Octavianus, around 30 BC. After reaching its widest extension under Emperor Trajan around 100 AD, the Roman Empire finally collapsed in 476 AD, some 500 years after the Roman Senate had become a mere debating society, with little or no influence over Roman policy.

[Faux Pas]

Faux.. when I was FORCED to sing Christmas songs in public school and was then ostracized and beaten by gangs of Christian kids for being Jewish any hope of you winning that argument went out the window. 

The constitution is very clear.  Separation of Church and State.  No exceptions.

You want to put a cross on your front yard, be my guest, but, ANY religious iconography is out of place in any publicly owned venue.  Period, end of story.

WOW Sculpt, some gangs of Christian kids in school beat you up and FORCED you to sing Christmas songs. How traumatized you must have been. Bad kids....BAD kids. It's probably about time you get over it, ya think? 

[Sculpto]

WOW Sculpt, some gangs of Christian kids in school beat you up and FORCED you to sing Christmas songs. How traumatized you must have been. Bad kids....BAD kids. It's probably about time you get over it, ya think? 

No Sandro it isn't time to get over it.  Bigotry never stops.

[Lit_1nce]

The US has paid for universal health care for years before Obama..
In Iraq and Afghanistan.

The health care system in the US needs to be changed. Unfortunately, there are those who live in fear of change.. (Only explanation for a second Bush term). If people really believe that the system as it is is fine, they are living with their head in the sand. The coverage that I can get now is not as good as what I could get in the 80's and costs me and my employers a bigger chunk of money in proportion... The talk of people wanting a crappier health care is moot, we already have that. At most employers this is the lowest level of health care plan that you can contribute to, and pretty much worthless.

Nobody really wants people to have a free ride.. The problem is that people with a lower income who would be willing to pay for health care, usually can not afford it under the current system so they do without it. Then when they get sick or injured they are forced to get care and blow off the huge bill that comes later. This is one of the reasons health care is so expensive.. so if you have a health plan, you are already supporting socialized medicine because your high rates are paying for those who don't.

Auto insurance used to be like health coverage is now (optional).. Isn't it much better to require all drivers to be insured ?

[SANDRO43]

No Sandro it isn't time to get over it.  Bigotry never stops.

Leave off the grass - for alternative fuel or otherwise - you're confusing me with Faux Pas .

[Sculpto]

Leave off the grass - for alternative fuel or otherwise - you're confusing me with Faux Pas .

Sorry Sandro.. I haven't smoked in weeks.. its the headache from the car crash.. have slept good in over a week.  SORRY.. funny thing is I thought that was out of character for you.. lol

So anyway.. Faux.. you are welcome to bow down to whatever god you want.. just don't do it on public property.

[acrzybear]

I don't know who this Will Rogers fellow is

William Penn Adair “Will” Rogers (November 4, 1879 – August 15, 1935) was a Cherokee-American cowboy, comedian, humorist, social commentator, vaudeville performer and actor. He was the father of U.S. Congressman and WWII Veteran Will Rogers, Jr.

Known as Oklahoma's favorite son,[1] Rogers was born to a prominent Indian Territory family. He traveled around the world three times, made 71 movies (50 silent films and 21 "talkies"),[2] wrote more than 4,000 nationally-syndicated newspaper columns,[3] and became a world-famous figure.

By the mid-1930s, Rogers was adored by the American people, and was the top-paid movie star in Hollywood at the time. Rogers died in 1935 while on an around-the-world trip with aviator Wiley Post, when their small airplane crashed near Barrow, Alaska Territory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Rogers

[Faux Pas]

Sorry Sandro.. I haven't smoked in weeks.. its the headache from the car crash.. have slept good in over a week.  SORRY.. funny thing is I thought that was out of character for you.. lol

So anyway.. Faux.. you are welcome to bow down to whatever god you want.. just don't do it on public property.

Sculpt..... apparently you didn't watch all of the clip. It is a memorial that happens to be a cross, built and used by same the Vets that have fought to protect that constitution you seem to love to refer to yet, find disgrace in protecting and preserving. They don't worship, they honor. I didn't hear a single one insist that you worship at all.

I'll kneel and worship anywhere I damn well please and without your permission. I have no doubt you were beaten up as a child and probably well into your adult life too. It is no wonder with the hate and bile you spew. You should fire up, take a toke and get that bug out of your ass

[Sculpto]

Sculpt..... apparently you didn't watch all of the clip. It is a memorial that happens to be a cross, built and used by same the Vets that have fought to protect that constitution you seem to love to refer to yet, find disgrace in protecting and preserving. They don't worship, they honor. I didn't hear a single one insist that you worship at all.

I'll kneel and worship anywhere I damn well please and without your permission. I have no doubt you were beaten up as a child and probably well into your adult life too. It is no wonder with the hate and bile you spew. You should fire up, take a toke and get that bug out of your ass

Hey Faux.. pray all you want.. just don't put crosses on public spaces..that is all I am saying.  I watched the whole video and what I see is another form of veiled religious discrimination and exclusion.  Sorry I do not want any part of that and will never accept it.  I had enough of the hatred people like you promote as Christian love when I was a kid.  The hypocrisy is really hard to take keyboard tough guy.  The only bug in my ass is keeping idiots like you from over running this country/ the world.

Frankly, you don't love this country at all.  You have no clue as to its history, are willing to abuse the constitution you claim to hold in such high regard as long as it serves your purpose, have no willingness to question any of the BS that the politicos tell us and so on.  You have no clue what freedom really is which is the real sadness of this thread because the OP is just as clueless as you in this regard.  You sir, are a hypocrite of the highest magnitude and, a sheeple which is even worse.

I just thank god I am not you.

[Faux Pas]

Geeze Sculpt

More bile and name calling. You really should get back on your meds. Delusion and denial. You sir, are dismissed
 

[Sculpto]

Geeze Sculpt

More bile and name calling. You really should get back on your meds. Delusion and denial. You sir, are dismissed
 

Go ahead and pound yourself in the head.  Read your own post and then consider the response you got. 

[Show Time]

Wow.  I didn't realize we had so many "ladies" on this forum.

Crap!  I guess I'm one too.   

[Blues Fairy]

BF, the basic difference in perspective is whether to privilege the whole community or the single individual, with all possible local variations of course.

Community consists of individuals; if you keep privileging the community at the expense of individual rights, you will get a typical dictatorship, eventually.

If socialism did so well in Europe, why did the socialists suffer such a crushing defeat at the most recent European parliamentary elections?  Obviously it must be some indication of their performance, n'est-ce pas?

[Simoni]

I don't know who this Will Rogers fellow is, but I can tell WHAT he is: a historical IGNORAMUS .

One of the most humorous guys of the 20th century, that's who.

[Boethius]

Problem in America is 10% of the population pays 99.5% of the tax.  To many free loaders in USA.  Also, when people over spent the government gave them a handout.  Quality of healthcare will be like Canada and most of the EU which is not very good if we go socialism like Obama.  But for 60% of the population this will be better than the healthcare they get now.

Actually, Canadian healthcare is very effective.  There is less bureaucracy than in the current US system.

I can walk into a clinic and see a physician without an appointment, waiting time is anywhere from 15 minutes to 2 hours (depending on the season - in flu season, the wait can be up to two hours).   I usually call around to check the waiting times.  I can also book an appointment with my GP independently at my convenience.

When I was pregnant, I was usually in and out of the OB's office in 20 minutes, which included blood pressure/urine tests/examination by the OB.  

Where the Canadian system fails is in two areas, being the underfunding of health research and the supply of elective surgeries (i.e. - things that will affect your quality of life, but won't kill you).  You will have surgery eventually, you'll just have to wait.  However, there are private clinics in some provinces that offer these services for a fee.  Overall, however, Canada needs to improve in these two areas.

[Ronnie]

Community consists of individuals; if you keep privileging the community at the expense of individual rights, you will get a typical dictatorship, eventually.

If socialism did so well in Europe, why did the socialists suffer such a crushing defeat at the most recent European parliamentary elections?  Obviously it must be some indication of their performance, n'est-ce pas?

What she said.

[Boethius]

 

if you keep privileging the community at the expense of individual rights, you will get a typical dictatorship, eventually.

But most European countries, and the EU Constitution, enshrine individual rights.  Canada has always been a country which protected collective rights, often over individual rights (even enshrining certain collective rights in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in 1982) and yet, there is no dictatorship.

I think you have missed a step; Countries with strong democratic traditions and, most importantly, the rule of law, don't generally succumb to dictatorship.

If socialism did so well in Europe, why did the socialists suffer such a crushing defeat at the most recent European parliamentary elections?  Obviously it must be some indication of their performance, n'est-ce pas?

European conservatives aren't calling for the abandonment of the majority of "socialist" programmes.