Where to meet - Russia or Ukraine?

[Boethius]

I think you should ask her if she is comfortable with you meeting in her city.  She may be seeing someone there, even if not seriously, and if things don't work out with you, she may be thinking it could affect her future.  She also may not want to bump into colleagues if she is with a foreigner, in case things don't work out.  Why not just ask her?

I don't think you will see a woman in her "everyday life" unless she doesn't change her routine for you.  Unless you are staying with her, if she goes to work daily and meets with you after work, how are you going to know her daily routine?  Unless the woman is a fantastic actress or you are incapable of reading cues, you will "see" who she is no matter where you are.  

If you do want to visit Moscow or St. Petersburg, google "Uncle Pasha".  He runs a business arranging apartments/visas/travel for foreigners.  I know people who have used his services on multiple trips to Russia and been very happy with his services.

[Billgreen54]

Women in this part of the world, rarely get a chance to travel outside their country.  Most women would jump at the chance to tell her friends and family that she met a wonderful man on an excursion to Ukraine.  Having her go to Kiev or Odessa to meet you would most likely, be a real life adventure for her and you as well.  Has she ever been out of her country?  Where exactly does she want to meet you?

Just remember that meeting on the internet should be regarded as a place to get acquainted and nothing more until you have met face to face.  The second you both meet in person anywhere, the clock starts over.

[Kuna]

MM,

I've been thinking about the decision you have to make and I've changed my mind.

I think boethius' comment about the girl potentially not being comfortable meeting in her hometown is a good one. 

What if she is currently seeing someone in her town???  What if it doesn't work out with you???  It'd be a shame for a current relationship (even a casual one) to end just because she is corresponding with you and exploring the possibility of overseas marriage.

I still think it's important to meet friends and family as early as possible.  It's reasonable if you don't get to meet family on the first trip though it'd be a big positive if you do.  Meeting friends is a different thing though. 

As you've been advised to take her to St Pete or Moscow (because you wouldn't want to interrupt any existing relationships she has with other men in her own town) you might like to consider letting her bring 3 or 4 friends to St Pete too.  It's not going to be THAT costly if you ask the girls to share one or two rooms between them.  Catching cabs wil be a bummer with the girls in one cab and you constantly following them around.  But it's OK...  it's better than confronting the lities in her hometown.

If I were you I'd start sending money now so she can start going shopping for new clothes and new luggage for the big trip.  Send a little extra too because she'll need some extra beauty treatments and all RW LOVE cosmetics!

Both you and her will be wanting to make a good impression on the first meeting, this is your chance to relaly make her feel good!

I'd thoroughly recommend Peterhof in St Pete not only because it's beautiful...  its actually a very close representation to how most Russians live on a daily basis so there's no real advantage to go to her hometown rather than either of the big two cities... If you really want to impress her and her friends a dinner at the Premier Casino Club is a great night out.  We were there with the BIL and his friends for dinner one night and they dropped a few grand for dinner for 7 ppl...  was very nice though - the smoked salmon and caviar kept flowing at the same rate as the Russian Standart vodka so make sure you drink lots of water before sleeping that night!

Good luck... make sure you get lots of photos. 

I'm really glad you've received some good advice on RWD.  It was a great help to me when I was searching and I'm sure this will be a great help for you - even if the advice (and brains trust) is VERY different from the men who gave me sound advice.

Kuna


btw...  If you choose to meet in her hometown (good idea) you CAN see her in a fairly normal routine if you're there over a weekend.  Yes,  she may have to work while you're there but spending time with her in the evening should be a pleasure anyway.  More likely, any REALLY interested woman should be able to get a day or two off work.  You CAN spend time together and if things are going well you should offer and/or expect to meet some friends over the weekend.  My wife discretely introduced me to one or two friends on our first trip but whisked me away from the difficult qusitons before they arose.

[Boethius]

Yes, I know.  Twenty five years of marriage to a Kyiyanin and half a decade living in Ukraine really taught me nothing. 

The problem I often see on this forum is twofold.  One is the view that there is a magic formula for finding "the one".  Do X, go to Y, ensure you meet Z, A, and B.  Don't do C or E.  If you don't do these things, you are doomed.

It doesn't matter where you meet someone.  If you are observant, you will see the true person.   If you are going to be scammed, you will be scammed whether you are meeting in her hometown or elsewhere. 

The second is not considering things from the woman's point of view because, after all, you are spending all this cash to go see her.

This woman has no firm commitment to MM.  I highly doubt she is pining away in a chastity belt, waiting for a foreign man to show up on her doorstep.  She and MM haven't even met yet.  For all she knows, he could be a sex tourist.   Plus, as a foreigner, he will stick out like a sore thumb.  If she bumps into anyone she knows, tongues will be wagging.  Everyone in her community will know.  Not a problem if they maintain their relationship, or eventually marry.  But it will be a problem if they don't click. 

So go ahead and look at it from one side.   These women should be grateful for the opportunity to be wined and dined by a foreigner, right? 

[Misha]

If she bumps into anyone she knows, tongues will be wagging.  Everyone in her community will know. 

My wife lives in a small city. We dated quite a few weeks before bumping into someone she knows. If a woman is so worried about  someone spotting her on a date with a foreigner, then perhaps she should not be dating foreigners. Perhaps I am biased in that I would not want to be with a woman who would be soooooo worried about what other people will think.

[Boethius]

I go to Kyiv about three times a year, always on business, and for very short periods.  Each time I go even now, I still see at least one person I knew.

Lots of North Americans go to Russia and Ukraine without knowing anything about the culture, about the language, about the community.  They don't understand that there, people are attached to their communities, and to the people who live in them.  People will talk behind their backs, and it can affect their relatives.  Perhaps your wife didn't care, but a lot of people do.

[SANDRO43]

They don't understand that there, people are attached to their communities, and to the people who live in them. People will talk behind their backs, and it can affect their relatives.  Perhaps your wife didn't care, but a lot of people do.

That doesn't apply to the FSU alone, it also happens in our smaller provincial cities . We have an old saying that goes:

Il paese è piccolo, la gente mormora.

The place is small, people 'murmur' (talk, gossip) .

[Misha]

Perhaps your wife didn't care, but a lot of people do.

No, she doesn't, which is one of the reasons why I married her 

[MatryoshkaMan]

At this point it is not decided where we will meet. Not a rush rush intil I need to book flights, accomodations etc. I think I will consider both mine and her opinion about it but I will be the final decider of course. My preference is still her city but I am open to her opinions if she differs. For me cost considerations of course do play a part. It will be much cheaper to spend 2 weeks anywhere outside of the the capital cities. For the same budget we can live more in style, rent a better place, eat in better restaurants. I'd like to be able to do the on-the-ground expenses for less than $200 per day and this will be impossible in Moscow, and maybe even Kiev. Unlike my ingrained temdamcy to be a manical traveller zooming around at break neck speed on a whirlwind tour of wherever I am, this time it would be better in some ways to a dull Russian city so there is few distractions and I can concentrate on her and us.

[Kuna]

Yes, I know.  Twenty five years of marriage to a Kyiyanin and half a decade living in Ukraine really taught me nothing. 

I don't know what your experiences taught did or didn't teach you... but I'll guarantee they didn't teach you EVERYTHING!

The problem I often see on this forum is twofold.  One is the view that there is a magic formula for finding "the one".  Do X, go to Y, ensure you meet Z, A, and B.  Don't do C or E.  If you don't do these things, you are doomed.

There is no magic formula but after more than a two years on this board I can promise you there are dumb things some guys do all the time... and when we see them happening we know the outcomes will almost ALWAYS be the same.

Nothing will protect everyone from everything bad that can happen... but the advice given out here is mostly aimed at reducing risk for the men AND WOMEN.

You're advice of not going to her hometown if she is uncomfortable because: "She may be seeing someone there, even if not seriously, and if things don't work out with you, she may be thinking it could affect her future" is foolish... you even tried to justify it in the other thread.. God knows how anyone could justify such advice!

I think it also comes down to a values thing.  If a FSUW is dating at home while seeking a foreign husband it says something about her character - and any man considering marriage should consider that.  Avoid her hometown in case she is dating someone else???  NO WAY!

It doesn't matter where you meet someone.  If you are observant, you will see the true person.   If you are going to be scammed, you will be scammed whether you are meeting in her hometown or elsewhere. 

You're twisting your crap advice of "Don't go to her hometown if she's uncomfortable because she may be seeing someone there...  etc... etc   (btw, I'd call that a bf - but you say you didn't say bf - so I guess you mean F%$#-buddy???)

Some men have chosen NOT to meet in a ladies hometown onthe first meeting and from memory I'd say these guys run a higher risk of not marrying the woman after several more trips...  butthat's not the point.  the point is the advice about the poor girl being found out if she had a F%$#-buddy!

The second is not considering things from the woman's point of view because, after all, you are spending all this cash to go see her.

Most men looking for marriage in FSU (and at home) are not considering things from a woman's perspective...  RWD will give men MUCH more of an insight into the woman's perspective than any other source available.

This woman has no firm commitment to MM.  I highly doubt she is pining away in a chastity belt, waiting for a foreign man to show up on her doorstep.  She and MM haven't even met yet.  For all she knows, he could be a sex tourist.   Plus, as a foreigner, he will stick out like a sore thumb.  If she bumps into anyone she knows, tongues will be wagging.  Everyone in her community will know.  Not a problem if they maintain their relationship, or eventually marry.  But it will be a problem if they don't click. 

1. She shouldn't have any firm commitment to a man before meeting...  but a man shouldn't be expected to fork out for a woman's exciting little vacation just because she doesn't want to be exposed for dating at home and seeking a foreign marriage.
2. She shouldn't need a chastity belt...  but if she's in a sexual relationship with one or more men whilst corresponding with her foreign "meal-ticket", it'd be nice for the "meal-ticket" to know his status.
3. All she needs to do to ensure he isn't a sex tourist is not have sex with him.. then he's just a tourist.  I wanna know...  why is it so hard for some women to not have casual sex?
4. Not all foreigners stick out like a sore thumb...  and those that do may be some of the ones not ultimately introduced to family if that's a problem. A man visiting a woman's hometown does not GUARANTEE him of meeting the family...  but if things go well he may have the opportunity.
5. As for bumping into someone in her hometown... yes, it might happen - but people can meet and date discretely. You, like I, regularly bump into associates because we follow routines.  If she and a man are following different routines to her normal one the likelihood of bumping into the babushka's at the door of her apartment building are much lower.  Agreed?  Good!

Now,  do we concede a man avoiding a woman's hometown in case she is exposed by the man she might happen to be "seeing" is just strange advice?

[BillyB]

 I think you should ask her if she is comfortable with you meeting in her city.  She may be seeing someone there, even if not seriously, and if things don't work out with you, she may be thinking it could affect her future.  She also may not want to bump into colleagues if she is with a foreigner, in case things don't work out.  Why not just ask her?
 

This should not be an issue. Before any man goes and visits a woman, he should ask if she has a boyfriend/relationship. If she has a boyfriend, it's all the more reason not to take her on a romantic vacation. He should not even be thinking about visiting her at all since she will have proved she can two time on a man. Of course she could lie but it's better to find out the lie during a 1st visit than the 2nd.

  Plus, as a foreigner, he will stick out like a sore thumb.  If she bumps into anyone she knows, tongues will be wagging.  Everyone in her community will know.  Not a problem if they maintain their relationship, or eventually marry.  But it will be a problem if they don't click. 
 

People from the FSU can spread rumors and make problems for others to bring them down but ultimately if it were me, I couldn't live in the shadows when visiting a woman in her hometown. If she is so worried about what others will say over the opportunity to find happiness, then maybe she's got more problems than she cares to admit. I will admit, some FSU women can lose their job if the wrong kind of manager finds out but that's a chance she'll have to take otherwise she shouldn't be looking for foreign men.

[Hub]

I'd like to be able to do the on-the-ground expenses for less than $200 per day and this will be impossible in Moscow, and maybe even Kiev.

I have recently returned from Kyiv.  You can get very good apt there for $60 a night and less.  A top meal will be $50 or less for two.  You can eat at some Ukrainian fast food places for around $5 each.  Good food also.  Then figure eating a meal or two in your apt each day; eggs, ham, cheese, bread, etc.  So even if you splurge for the $50 meal out every day, you can still do this for around $120 per day in Kyiv.