Being Greedy....

[mies]

Not always. I took out some student loans to go to university. I saw going to university as a way to get a better job and make more money in the future in a job that I liked. In other words, I borrowed money to be able to meet future needs. Not all borrowing is about living for the present, prudent borrowing can also be about building a better future.

ok - about education - I agree.
Regarding me missing your point - I have not. If you are saving to pay the debt - you are already using the good. If you are saving for the sake of saving - you have not bought anything yet. Let's not start demagoguery of a kind "reckless spending" and "frugality to pay the debts". There is a vast difference between reckless spending and a flower for woman every now and then. Dozen of roses is $9 at Safeway. If this is a reckless spending for you - maybe you were not very frugal when you were creating your debts. If male created his debts, I don't see why his wife should be kept responsible for them, these debts weren't her choice to start from. And if she were buying a house - maybe she'd be more frugal and had chosen more modest option, which would allow higher liquidity of family budget later on. 

[Lily]

There is a huge difference between the two. Difference in financial terms, and difference in psychology of individuals.

People who save - choose to have more goods later rather than having them now. They give greater value to the future than to nowadays.
People who borrow - choose to spend more now rather than spending more later. They give greater value to their current needs, often are too optimistic about their future earnings and downplay their future needs.

These are the key differences between saving and borrowing.
  

In terms of different psychology of savers and borrowerd I'd add that savers seem to be more reserved and risk averse people than borrowers, because ssaving does not request any extra mental work and skills like calculating and planning. Just don't spend your earnings, let them grow in bank on your salary account on a meager saving interest, that's it. Savers are the people that don't give themselves an effort to convert their willingness to live modestly today for an eventual gain in the future. This, coupled with absence of any meaningful investkment market, was a reason why savers were that many in the USSR.

A borrower takes a very different approach to his personal finances. His mentality is to make money work, and for the sake of it a borrower has to learn more sofisticated financial instruments. He is also more inclined to take a risk than saver. Borrower realizes that there are things that value tomorrow more than today, he understands inflation, he makes calculations and plans his future, including his future needs and earnings. Of note, I don't mean borrowers who make loans for consumer goods, except for some means of production or life necessities. I mean borrowers who borrow to invest, after all. In the USSR, people could only earn their wages, there were almost no investments at that time.

[Misha]

ok - about education - I agree.
Regarding me missing your point - I have not. If you are saving to pay the debt - you are already using the good. If you are saving for the sake of saving - you have not bought anything yet. Let's not start demagoguery of a kind "reckless spending" and "frugality to pay the debts".

Here is one of the definitions of the verb "to save" courtesy of dictionary.com: "to avoid the spending, consumption, or waste of: to save fuel." You can save money by spending/wasting less.

There is a vast difference between reckless spending and a flower for woman every now and then. Dozen of roses is $9 at Safeway.

Where exactly did I say that spending for flowers every now and then was reckless?

[mies]

I agree, Lily.

[mies]

Here is one of the definitions of the verb "to save" courtesy of dictionary.com: "to avoid the spending, consumption, or waste of: to save fuel." You can save money by spending/wasting less.

Where exactly did I say that spending for flowers every now and then was reckless?

then why do you use appealing terms like "frugality" and "reckless spending" when we were discussing definition of "greediness" by FSUW?  

regarding the definition - let's just drop it. I am not going to agree with you, and you most likely will not agree with me. If you are paying the debt - you are returning what you owe. You have promised these money earlier. You got a good. You are already using the good. You aren't using the piece of the house you already paid for - you are using the whole house. Hence - these money do not really belong to you. You owed them even before you earned them. 10-20-30 years ahead.
Saving - is when you are not using something to use it later. Same with natural oil/gas. When you say you are saving oil/gas/energy - you are using less now, to be able for the humanity to use more of oil later. If you fill your fuel tank full with gas, paid only for 50%, and then pay for the rest 50% during next month - you aren't saving the world reserves of oil. You are living in credit, and you owe the money for 50% of gas.

[Misha]

This, coupled with absence of any meaningful investkment market, was a reason why savers were that many in the USSR.

The main problem in Soviet times was that there was more money in circulation than good that could be bought. This meant that every babushka could easily have thousand of rubles in her savings account. This is one of the main reasons as to why there was hyperinflation in the 1990s: when you finally had large quantities of goods that could be bought, prices skyrocketed.

[Misha]

then why do you use appealing terms like "frugality" and "reckless spending" when we were discussing definition of "greediness" by FSUW? 

I would define buying a dozen roses at Safeway as frugal as opposed to spending hundreds of dollars on a fancier bouquet at an exclusive florist  Again, as noted, different women have different definitions of "greedy" and I did my best to choose a woman whose approach to money and spending was more frugal and reasoned.

[mies]

I did my best to choose a woman whose approach to money and spending was more frugal and reasoned.

  Congratulations!

[Misha]

Congratulations!

Thank you. Though hard to tell if you are being sarcastic or not  :evil:

[mies]

No :-) Of course I am not sarcastic. I am genuinely happy when I see happy people and happy couples :-)

[Misha]

No :-) Of course I am not sarcastic. I am genuinely happy when I see happy people and happy couples :-)

Me too 

[Doll]

Hi Doll, I see you find me amusing.  Can you go into more detail and explain in more than 5 sentences why?  I always like to learn things.  Not sure your English level and maybe this why half a sentence? 

Just one sentence: people with more than a million on the account most likely won't go for looking for a Russian wife.

[kievstar]

Doll, I did.  I know many more as well.  A million in cash is not much money.  But you did say "people with more than a million on the account most likely won't go for looking for a Russian wife.  most likely is the important part.  How do you Know?  I know you married a guy but you were in your 40's and rich men most likely are not looking for 40 year old women. 

[Doll]

My advice for guys worth more than a million in cash is not to talk about money around RW - meaning how much you have, how much you make, etc.  Women change around money.

Ok- I'll say more.It is not about Rissian women- it is about any women. Or do you really think that AW will not take care of this million right away? Come on. She will do it times faster.

[Doll]

Doll, I did.  I know many more as well.  A million in cash is not much money.  But you did say "people with more than a million on the account most likely won't go for looking for a Russian wife.  most likely is the important part.  How do you Know?  I know you married a guy but you were in your 40's and rich men most likely are not looking for 40 year old women. 

Actually I married a wealthy man

[Aloe]

being "greedy" is being unwilling to spend an insignificant for you (in my eyes) amount of money on something. So if you have 100 million bucks and you dont wanna spend a million, you are greedy, or if you have 5k bucks and dont wanna spend 200 you are greedy too

[Aloe]

the key here is to convince me why the amount i want you to spend is significant to you, so i understand your view of things and dont view you as cheap anymore. While with 100 million bucks you most likely will never convince me that 1 mil is significant for you, with 5k it is very possible because 5k is nothing, and if you are saving for something big, 200 in that case is very significant. I thought my husband was really cheap, frankly at 1 point on our first meeting i thought it will never work between us because he was acting cheap, but now i see where he was coming from and i dont think hes cheap anymore

[JR]

When my ex-wife first came to America we were on a tight budget. There were many things we had to purchase for our life together. New clothes was one thing we needed to get her. She was limited in the amount she could bring with her.
She needed new shoes. I sat her down and showed her the budget and how much we could spend for new shoes and then we went shopping. Ten hours, five malls and I don't know how many shoe stores later the only pair of shoes she "felt something" for were 5.2 times the budgeted amount and also just happened to be the most expensive pair of shoes we had seen all day.
Even after I explained to her that we had X amount of money to get us to my next paycheck which was a week away and that amount had to buy gas, food to eat and everything else we would need, she didn't care. I tried to explain to her that it was 110% of everything we had and that if we bought them neither of us could eat for the rest of the week, (seven days). She just pouted, took her wedding ring off and called me greedy. I was at a loss for words.
I could not and do not understand how someone can say they love you but not care that you will have nothing to eat so that they can the pair of shoes they "feel something" for instead of a perfectly good, fashionable pair that leaves enough so that the family can survive.

[Daveman]

When my ex-wife first came to America we were on a tight budget. There were many things we had to purchase for our life together. New clothes was one thing we needed to get her. She was limited in the amount she could bring with her.
She needed new shoes. I sat her down and showed her the budget and how much we could spend for new shoes and then we went shopping. Ten hours, five malls and I don't know how many shoe stores later the only pair of shoes she "felt something" for were 5.2 times the budgeted amount and also just happened to be the most expensive pair of shoes we had seen all day.
Even after I explained to her that we had X amount of money to get us to my next paycheck which was a week away and that amount had to buy gas, food to eat and everything else we would need, she didn't care. I tried to explain to her that it was 110% of everything we had and that if we bought them neither of us could eat for the rest of the week, (seven days). She just pouted, took her wedding ring off and called me greedy. I was at a loss for words.
I could not and do not understand how someone can say they love you but not care that you will have nothing to eat so that they can the pair of shoes they "feel something" for instead of a perfectly good, fashionable pair that leaves enough so that the family can survive.

Neither can I.  I guess that well describes the western version of "greedy", as well as selfish and a few others..

Was she this demanding during the dating time are well?

[Misha]

She just pouted, took her wedding ring off and called me greedy. I was at a loss for words.

Paradox is that those who call others greedy, tend to be the greediest of all 
 

I could not and do not understand how someone can say they love you but not care that you will have nothing to eat so that they can the pair of shoes they "feel something" for instead of a perfectly good, fashionable pair that leaves enough so that the family can survive.

They don't as they can only love what you buy them 

[JR]

Neither can I.  I guess that well describes the western version of "greedy", as well as selfish and a few others..

Was she this demanding during the dating time are well?

No she wasn't. But the dating period wasn't that long. That is one of the pitfalls of long distance realationships: not enough actual interaction.

[Aloe]

When my ex-wife first came to America we were on a tight budget. There were many things we had to purchase for our life together. New clothes was one thing we needed to get her. She was limited in the amount she could bring with her.
She needed new shoes. I sat her down and showed her the budget and how much we could spend for new shoes and then we went shopping. Ten hours, five malls and I don't know how many shoe stores later the only pair of shoes she "felt something" for were 5.2 times the budgeted amount and also just happened to be the most expensive pair of shoes we had seen all day.
Even after I explained to her that we had X amount of money to get us to my next paycheck which was a week away and that amount had to buy gas, food to eat and everything else we would need, she didn't care. I tried to explain to her that it was 110% of everything we had and that if we bought them neither of us could eat for the rest of the week, (seven days). She just pouted, took her wedding ring off and called me greedy. I was at a loss for words.
I could not and do not understand how someone can say they love you but not care that you will have nothing to eat so that they can the pair of shoes they "feel something" for instead of a perfectly good, fashionable pair that leaves enough so that the family can survive.

that is horrible and immature, sounds like she did not love you at all. I've been here for almost 2 months and still didnt get any new clothes except for some gym clothes and house shoes and i dont go around demanding we dip into emergency budget to fix that, because my husband sat me down and explained to me, how eletricity, gas, car insurance companies all like to calculate your real expenditures only in the end of the year and send you bills for a few thousand euro

[Gator]

my husband sat me down and explained to me, how eletricity, gas, car insurance companies all like to calculate your real expenditures only in the end of the year and send you bills for a few thousand euro

????

We are missing something.

I can understand that your car insurance would cost a lot with a RW driver.    Are the gas and electric meters not read monthly?

[Lily]

When my ex-wife first came to America we were on a tight budget. There were many things we had to purchase for our life together. New clothes was one thing we needed to get her. She was limited in the amount she could bring with her.
She needed new shoes. I sat her down and showed her the budget and how much we could spend for new shoes and then we went shopping. Ten hours, five malls and I don't know how many shoe stores later the only pair of shoes she "felt something" for were 5.2 times the budgeted amount and also just happened to be the most expensive pair of shoes we had seen all day.
Even after I explained to her that we had X amount of money to get us to my next paycheck which was a week away and that amount had to buy gas, food to eat and everything else we would need, she didn't care. I tried to explain to her that it was 110% of everything we had and that if we bought them neither of us could eat for the rest of the week, (seven days).

She just pouted, took her wedding ring off and called me greedy. I was at a loss for words.
 

The ugliest wife behaviour I can ever think of ...

It should be enough to send her back home.

If she wants expensive shoes, she should be able to buy them with her own money, that she either saved from her working life in Russia, or earned from her employment in the U.S.

If she is not able to earn money, she should be content with the budget that her husband, the earner, has estimated.

[mies]

Aloe - that's very strange explanation. Are you sure that твой муж не ездит тебе по ушам?