I met a girl under special circumstances

[GoodOlBoy]

Its a normal word and men can be whores as well.

I agree Kievstar, BUT.......Nobody ever wants to pay me! 

Performance level is OK........It must be my age!




GOB

[BillyB]

Billy, your not 100% correct.  A whore does not always receive money nor give sex.

I didn't make up the definition and the other definitions of whore do not apply to this situation. The people who refered to the OP's girl as a whore is correct based on the fact she provides sex in exchange for money. It may not sound nice but it's true.

[ECOCKS]

Well, you got most everyone's attention....

I guess I would ask her what her exit plan looked like. Second career, lifestyle she envisioned, family plans, etc.

Then it just remains to see whether you feel you could fit into whatever picture she paints. It probably would have been better if you had not been a customer and already imparted your particulars since you might have to wonder if that had been added to her planning.

It's your life but it seems clear that the mood of the board is negative. You wanted the thoughts and analysis from here and it looks like you got a truckload (or six).

Just don't let yourself believe you're Richard Gere.

[remiel6]

okay, I am going to put myself in the middle of this and hope I don't catch one of the stray bullets flying past. Like sculpto I am an artist, Like sculpto I have known many girls who provided income from umm.... curious means. Unlike sculpto I do not agree with his assertions. The reasons why a person chooses to do what they do are fascinating in and of themselves, the problem is what it does to them and thier world view in ways that cannot be seen. You have a girl who gets money from most of the men she knows. This is her job, her job is to talk money out of mens wallets. She always sees men at thier weakest point and in someways this affects a person and how they view the world. Second, I agree with blues fairy, If she has told her mother about her life and her mother hasn't basically disowned her what does that say? The problem with the equation is that the alternative is that she is a liar about the most basic elements of her life, ie what she does for a living with the people who are suppose to be honest closest ot her.
Finally, from the greatest Con Man in the history of the world Casanova, He says in his memoirs If a person is honest about something you do not expect them to be honest about, Ie being a whore, the other party is less inclined to ever question thier truthfullness again. It is a way of getting confident, a way of breaking down thier defenses. For what reason may not be known. Perhaps she just strings you along for a place to stay while in the states. Who knows. Casanova would keep writing to people for years and years staying close until they needed them for something. Its hard to say.
Yes she might change, yes she could be a swan inside an ugly duckling, my advice is. Lets her change her life on someone elses dime. Not yours

[GoodOlBoy]

......If she has told her mother about her life and her mother hasn't basically disowned her what does that say?

Maybe it's a "career path" that runs in the family???  :evil:

Kind of like an old family "recipe", that is passed down from generation to generation.


GOB

[Ininiteluck]

okay, I am going to put myself in the middle of this and hope I don't catch one of the stray bullets flying past. Like sculpto I am an artist, Like sculpto I have known many girls who provided income from umm.... curious means. Unlike sculpto I do not agree with his assertions. The reasons why a person chooses to do what they do are fascinating in and of themselves, the problem is what it does to them and thier world view in ways that cannot be seen. You have a girl who gets money from most of the men she knows. This is her job, her job is to talk money out of mens wallets. She always sees men at thier weakest point and in someways this affects a person and how they view the world. Second, I agree with blues fairy, If she has told her mother about her life and her mother hasn't basically disowned her what does that say? The problem with the equation is that the alternative is that she is a liar about the most basic elements of her life, ie what she does for a living with the people who are suppose to be honest closest ot her.
Finally, from the greatest Con Man in the history of the world Casanova, He says in his memoirs If a person is honest about something you do not expect them to be honest about, Ie being a whore, the other party is less inclined to ever question thier truthfullness again. It is a way of getting confident, a way of breaking down thier defenses. For what reason may not be known. Perhaps she just strings you along for a place to stay while in the states. Who knows. Casanova would keep writing to people for years and years staying close until they needed them for something. Its hard to say.
Yes she might change, yes she could be a swan inside an ugly duckling, my advice is. Lets her change her life on someone elses dime. Not yours

Thanks. What I said about telling her mother before was -  her mother asked her how she got her money and she replied that she didn't want to say and that she didn't want her mother to ask again. Her mother was very upset, cried etc. and they didn't talk for a while. Now they are on speaking terms however I guess her mother is worried although living with it

[Misha]

I guess her mother is worried although living with it

Getting a new apartment out of it is certainly helping  :evil:

[NJ]

I agree with most post authers here. Prostitute is never respected woman in Russia. I dont really think that any Russian man would ever think about marrying a woman like this.

I just wonder even if you will take her to your country and give you brand-new life, how will you feel when once you'll meet her ex-client and what you will feel knowing you give your name to a woman others gave cash for sex? Would you really be able to trust her when she sais she wants to meet her friends and will get back late? Do you imagine to have kids with this woman and what will kids say if they will ever get to know what their mother was doing?

But if you are very ok with all above I believe you are a one in a million guy with no prejurance at all. Wish you all the best any way.

[AugustD]

I am not sure I am buying this story.  I think everyones opinions will be the same toward prostitution though our morality or ethics might be different.  To think prostitution is more acceptable in her culture after the explanation of the mothers reaction does not make sense.

You met her 4 months ago, and in that time she has come to stay in the US 3 times at 1 month intervals AND you have been to visit her in Russia in the same timespan.  It does not make sense to me.

You state that "this could be the one" and yet guys (correctly) call her a "whore" and you dont react but rather thank them for their opinions and give some sort of "that was what I was thinking...oh well" spiel.

I am sorry but I am not buying this one.  Maybe this is a new "hard to find talent" position in the US now and she got an H1B Visa for it and travels back and forth but I am not seeing it.  Also what does the morality of Russia have to do with your decision anyway?  I would think it is your morals and ethics that should be checked and not the good people of the Russian Federation.

[Faux Pas]

I think you would be really surprised who has worked in the sex trade Misha.  REALLY surprised.  Just like the OPs girl started out by going to Turkey and worked as a "bar girl" and moved up to other things.. SF is full of girls from every part of the country that do the same thing.  And you know which ones make the most money?  

My sample is based on reality.  Most girls who have done such work will never admit it.  Encounter them on the other side of the fence, and guess what happens, the truth comes out.  

So, there was one girl in the circus.. she went by the name of Snow.  She was hotter than hot and we worked as partners for a while.  She teased the hell out of me.  Finally I asked her to get together and she declined.  I said why?  She said, I will show you later.. then you decide if you still want to.. meet me at X address tomorrow night.  So, I met her there, we went to get something to eat and then she said, I have to go to work but i want you to come see me work.  OK, sure.. we walked a few blocks over and when we were right in front of the biggest most high end XXX strip club in SF, she said.. "are you coming in?"  I went in, saw her show.. she was awesome.  While I was there I ran into three other women I knew.  Two I already knew about from the circus, but one of them, I was shocked.  I knew her Mother!  Her Mother is an ordained priest in the Unitarian church.  I always thought that girl was a prude.  I had eaten dinner at their house a bunch of times.  But there she was, up on the stage doing what they do.  She needed college money.. saw me in the crowd, came over and made me promise not to tell her Mom.  But, she was clearly enjoying her job.  I did not get together with the stripper, for the same reasons I would advise the OP not to get serious with his girl, and I kept the other ones secret to this day.

No matter how much you attempt to sanitize and white wash whore, you can't. Whore, hooker, prostitute, working girl they are all the same and you can post until you are blue in the face and it will remain whore. Sculpt if you personally knew 10,000 whores all intimately and they were all artists and daughters of a minister guess what, they are still whores. The connotation of whore isn't good but, that isn't to say that there aren't whores who are good people but at the end of the day, they are still whores.

[Sculpto]

So, anyone who takes money for the services they provide is a whore? 

The bias here is moral outrage over someone using her body to provide service in exchange for money.  How is that different than a carpenter?  Carpenter builds a house leveraging his skill and physical power.  A sex provider uses her skill and physical ability to create pleasure. 

You guys are just moralizing about something that you find distasteful.  Why do you find it distasteful?  As a hooker I know would say, it is because you fear a powerful woman.  It is the same mentality that accused women of being witches and the crime of bewitching men.

And I thought you guys were modern and civilized. 

But, i would bet that given the chance and a lack of consequences you would all jump at the chance.  And I also bet, most of you are wishing you could see a photo of the lady in question.

Ok, go ahead and throw some rocks now.. I have a shield. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prostitutes_and_courtesans

[Misha]

Why do you find it distasteful? 

If a woman wants to be a prostitute knowing full well the potential risks (physical and emotional) she should be free to do so. However, I would not marry her.

[Ravens9273]

So, anyone who takes money for the services they provide is a whore? 

The bias here is moral outrage over someone using her body to provide service in exchange for money.  How is that different than a carpenter?  Carpenter builds a house leveraging his skill and physical power.  A sex provider uses her skill and physical ability to create pleasure. 

You guys are just moralizing about something that you find distasteful.  Why do you find it distasteful?  As a hooker I know would say, it is because you fear a powerful woman.  It is the same mentality that accused women of being witches and the crime of bewitching men.

And I thought you guys were modern and civilized. 

But, i would bet that given the chance and a lack of consequences you would all jump at the chance.  And I also bet, most of you are wishing you could see a photo of the lady in question.

Ok, go ahead and throw some rocks now.. I have a shield. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prostitutes_and_courtesans

You want to know the difference between a prostitute and a carpenter?

One profession is legal. The other is not.

enough said.

[Sculpto]

If a woman wants to be a prostitute knowing full well the potential risks (physical and emotional) she should be free to do so. However, I would not marry her.

what if you found out after you married a woman that she had turned some tricks while a student in college?

[Sculpto]

You want to know the difference between a prostitute and a carpenter?

One profession is legal. The other is not.

enough said.

legal where?  Prostitution is legal in lots of places.  Nevada for example.. many western European countries allow it.. sheesh.. take a walk down St. Germain in Paris to see what legal prostitution looks like. 

Again, you are imposing your moral view.

BTW, I forgot to say int he last post... I would not marry a prostitute either.  I just don't like the judgment that is going on.

[BillyB]

The bias here is moral outrage over someone using her body to provide service in exchange for money.  How is that different than a carpenter?  Carpenter builds a house leveraging his skill and physical power.  A sex provider uses her skill and physical ability to create pleasure. 

Ask your woman what is the difference between the job she works at and working prostitution and tell her your views in that you see no difference. Report back her reaction.

C,mon Sculpto, most prostitutes even have some morals to the point they know there is a difference between their customers and a good faithful family man. When they are ready for marriage and a family, they would not marry their customers if they had any kind of intelligence. Now go tell them there is no difference between those two groups of men.

[groovlstk]

You guys are just moralizing about something that you find distasteful.  Why do you find it distasteful?  As a hooker I know would say, it is because you fear a powerful woman.  It is the same mentality that accused women of being witches and the crime of bewitching men.

And I thought you guys were modern and civilized.  

The OP's question was about establishing a serious relationship w/a prostitute. Not a retired or former prostitute, but one that met him while she was on active duty. People responded, quite rightly, in alerting him to the dangers of believing that old Hollywood myth about hookers with hearts of gold.

As usual, when you find your opinion in the minority, you derail the thread by provoking a separate, entirely irrelevant argument - this time by quibbling about the definition of "whore" and pulling out your dusty feminist hat (which you wear rather selectively, and for obvious reasons) and making some point that most of us heard while suffering through mandatory Women's Studies electives in our Uni days.

Why don't you open your own thread instead of turning this one into another circus?

[Ravens9273]

legal where?  Prostitution is legal in lots of places.  Nevada for example.. many western European countries allow it.. sheesh.. take a walk down St. Germain in Paris to see what legal prostitution looks like. 

Again, you are imposing your moral view.

BTW, I forgot to say int he last post... I would not marry a prostitute either.  I just don't like the judgment that is going on.

I am not imposing anything. I just stated fact!!!!
Your statments now are nothing more then to push peoples buttons at this point.
Going around the fact to say it is legal in other parts of the world means nothing. Why?
Because it is illegal where she lives and where the OP lives. Those are the only two places that matter. Not the rest of the world.
If my wife were a carpenter at least I do not have to keep bail money stashed away and wonder everyday if I will get the call from the jail.
Anyone can lay down and spread their legs open so do not try to make it an art form. At least being a carpenter is legal and requires skill. Even the most unattractive women can sell their bodies. Some men will pay for anything.

[Sculpto]

I am not imposing anything. I just stated fact!!!!
Your statments now are nothing more then to push peoples buttons at this point.
Going around the fact to say it is legal in other parts of the world means nothing. Why?
Because it is illegal where she lives and where the OP lives. Those are the only two places that matter. Not the rest of the world.
If my wife were a carpenter at least I do not have to keep bail money stashed away and wonder everyday if I will get the call from the jail.
Anyone can lay down and spread their legs open so do not try to make it an art form. At least being a carpenter is legal and requires skill. Even the most unattractive women can sell their bodies. Some men will pay for anything.

Its a fact based on limited information Raven.  Sorry. 

A truly skilled courtesan is not merely spreading her legs, but, she is doing something far beyond that.  Why do you think men will pay big money to be with certain prostitutes?  Just because they are good looking?  Nope, because they are skilled.

High end sex workers rarely if ever have to deal with LE. 

I suspect your image of prostitutes is informed by TV and cinema, but, the reality is the street hooker is a very small percentage of the sex industry, as are the poor souls who end up as victims of pimps and trafficers. 

Sorry you don't like hearing it, but, you are imposing your value system. 

Someone was doubting the story based on timelines and visa issues.. well.. go to Craigslist Moscow and look under adult gigs.  The recruiters are right there in English.  I am sure they are all over the Russian language sites. 

[Misha]

what if you found out after you married a woman that she had turned some tricks while a student in college?

You seem so intent on proving that all women have been prostitutes at some point in their life  The fact of the matter is that I spent a lot of time talking to my wife before getting married, and I know her character and personality. I knew before marriage that she had not "turned some tricks" and I am confident now that she has never "turned some tricks."

[Sculpto]

no Misha you are misreading me.  The only thing I would like to prove is that there is an unreasonable amount of judgment being made.

And.. people do keep secrets.  I was not suggesting that your or anyones wife was.. just curious how you or anyone would react if several years into marriage a "confession" was made.

[tim 360]

Let me get the OP straight on this, see if I got this right?  She comes over here a couple times for a one month stay and works as an escort (hooker) and that is how you met her?  You start seeing her (for free) and she tells you she makes over 28,000EU per month turning tricks.  Now you are thinkin' she could be the one for you?  Well,  I am sure she could support you if those numbers are accurate.

I got a funny feeling you are posting a bunch of BS.   I'm sure you are a very nice guy.  Maybe I'm wrong but this just does not add up.  What in the world does she need you for anyway?  I know, you look younger than you really are and she has fallen deeply in love with you.  C'mon who are you kidding?  

Anyway, if what you say is true and you are half-smart...you should be seeing a shrink for a little guidance and not asking for help on the internet.  If you are thinking of marrying this supposed hooker you need more help than any internet forum can provide.

[mies]

I'll be second woman posting in this thread. I agree with reasoning of Sculpto and the rest of the more positive minority.

Whether being a prostitute is ok for russia or something typical for russia? No. It is not.
BUT: there are indeed some traits specific for Russian women, - brought up by local culture. These are exactly the traits which make RW marry abusive husbands, marry much older guys from the West (by much older I mean 15-18+ years older) and so on. They are forced by culture to show "pride" and "good virtues" but rarely they have genuine self-respect. They tend to treat man as superior and women as inferior (the quality so much praised by many westerners). So in essence - there is much of hypocrisy on all levels.
I personally see little difference between woman trading her body and various services to marry a foreign guy - often the first guy who offered her "the deal" and who often isn't a match to her in any way, and a woman who trades her body casually yet has a choice - whether to accept a client or not.

This is not true that hookers  will have sex with every man. This is a lie. The hookers who work on "okruzhnaya" of Moscow or Kyiv  and do blowjob for 4$ - maybe. The crackheads in Atlantic City - yes - they'll accept everybody. All the rest - are very picky about it. Most of them don't want to spend a night with sadist, or (in case of russians) muslim/arab, or a group of recent prisoners, or otherwise crazy dudes. No thinking hooker wants to be found dead next day, or to be disformed, or damaged in any way. Nobody wants to have their face cut, or boiling water spilled on her. Or other unimaginable things to be done to her. And they at least want to make sure that they will be paid - not fu-ked and left without money. So most of you guys are wrong in your speculations. I talked to hookers. I am not a man. I have no value for working girl. Also - I never was a hooker, so i never was a competitor for them. And they didn't have any reasons to lie to me, or to make good impression to me. I think they were as honest with me as one can be honest with a stranger.

-----

to the OP:
it's not the question of how typical is prostitution in Russia. It's a question of whether you'll be able to live with it, introduce her to your friends, family, raise kids with her.
Other things are irrelevant.
You can be easily dumped by any woman, any woman may want to use you as a "mule" to move to EU, and any woman (often - the best and most virtuous woman with lots of self-respect) can rip you off in case of divorce, any woman can be a cheater and there is no label on women that would say "she's a cheater" or "she's not a cheater". You cannot quickly verify in any way whether this particular woman loves you or not. But you will know this with time for sure.

Also - i confirm what Sculpto said - that many women receive offers of various favors or money in exchange for sex. I received many offers like this. I have declined them. Some offers were more subtle and discrete. Some were quite explicit. I am reasonably attractive unintimidatingly-looking woman. I am as far as it gets from "aggressive sexuality" - no mini-skirts, open tops with boobs falling off, and such. On the contrary - I constantly get comments that I look very innocent and dress modestly.  

[Misha]

no Misha you are misreading me.  The only thing I would like to prove is that there is an unreasonable amount of judgment being made.

Sculpto, you are partaking in much of the unreasonable judgments by implying that all women are one offer away from being a prostitute.

And.. people do keep secrets.  I was not suggesting that your or anyones wife was.. just curious how you or anyone would react if several years into marriage a "confession" was made.

Some secrets are better left unsaid 

[Faux Pas]

So, anyone who takes money for the services they provide is a whore? 

The bias here is moral outrage over someone using her body to provide service in exchange for money.  How is that different than a carpenter?  Carpenter builds a house leveraging his skill and physical power.  A sex provider uses her skill and physical ability to create pleasure. 

You guys are just moralizing about something that you find distasteful.  Why do you find it distasteful?  As a hooker I know would say, it is because you fear a powerful woman.  It is the same mentality that accused women of being witches and the crime of bewitching men.

And I thought you guys were modern and civilized. 

But, i would bet that given the chance and a lack of consequences you would all jump at the chance.  And I also bet, most of you are wishing you could see a photo of the lady in question.

Ok, go ahead and throw some rocks now.. I have a shield. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prostitutes_and_courtesans

Not so long ago you were morally outraged at the thought of RW being prostituted out of marriage agencies. Sculpto was contacting the authorities and going to put an end to that travesty. Sculpto KNEW someone who could get it done. Yessiree, Sculpt was going to be the saviour of these ladies of the oldest profession working in marriage agencies. What's wrong Sculpt? It's okay for whores on the streets of Paris and San Francisco but not working out of marriage agencies. Different class of whores I suppose?