How should I handle this girl?

[Sculpto]

GQ, there are a lot of great women in SF.  And fifteen guys or more chasing them.  And there are TONS of really screwed up women here also.  If all I wanted to do was get laid, I could every weekend.  But, that isn't what I am after.  I think the OP understands what I mean.  It is even harder in the South Bay from what I hear.

[GQBlues]

Like you wrote it will cost you $5000 plus your time, you dont want to waste your time and see her do the same things.

Dont treat international dating the same way you treat dating someone from your city especially if she is special and you have not a girl like her before.

Muddy-

You crack me up. Yeah TBB, bring Muddy along as a wingman. It may indeed speed up the process once she finds out what her 'other' option is.

 

[GQBlues]

GQ, there are a lot of great women in SF.  And fifteen guys or more chasing them.  And there are TONS of really screwed up women here also.  If all I wanted to do was get laid, I could every weekend.  But, that isn't what I am after.  I think the OP understands what I mean.  It is even harder in the South Bay from what I hear.

Who cares how many is chasing women anywhere. You're the only one that SHOULD matter. You made a conflicting message when you said you can get laid anytime you want, but cited the competition.

Screwed up women? You think FSUW as a whole are somewhat desensitized, sanitized, and saintified?

South Bay is a sand box, Sculp. It just looks hard from the sidelines.

[Sculpto]

Who cares how many is chasing women anywhere. You're the only one that SHOULD matter. You made a conflicting message when you said you can get laid anytime you want, but cited the competition.

Screwed up women? You think FSUW as a whole are somewhat desensitized, sanitized, and saintified?

South Bay is a sand box, Sculp. It just looks hard from the sidelines.

I know it is a conflicting message GQ.. but thats the reality.  Its easy to hook up here.. real easy.. Its not easy to find someone worth having a relationship with.  SF has more screwed up PEOPLE than is typical in other places.  Its the left coast.  All the misfits gravitate here.

I have been to San Jose a few times.  It is a completely different culture there than in SF.  Santana Row is nice, I don't argue that for a second and there are tons of gorgeous women around there.. but for to find the kind of woman I am (was) looking for is an even bigger long shot than in SF or the FSU. 

[elliott]

the way she treated you was pretty rude.

I agree with you that her actions can be seen as a bit rude, but I don't think it was intentional.  While reading the OP, I didn't get the impression that she was high-fiving her friends at a pool party for playing hard-to-get while TBB yearned to be with her.  My thoughts are that she figured he'd be gone soon and would forget all about her, so she had no desire to open her heart to him just so it can get broken.

they had a few dates and made out a little.  That is not enough for either one of them to base anything on.  He likes her and wants to go.. she had a nice time and is moving at her own speed.  Thats all.. don't read too much in.

Yeah, that.


I agree with someone's statement that TBB should tell her the he wants to return to see her and only her.  Knowing he's interested in only her now, she may act differently (in a good way).

[JR]

I am not going to argue it, but, I think her behavior was totally appropriate.  He didn't come to see her exclusively.  She wasn't looking for a foreign guy so his travel status is irrelevant.  H needs to court her, woo her.. if she was jumping through hoops after a couple of dates I would be worried.. but.. this seems normal to me.

We don't know how many men she is seeing, clue: (he met her on a Russian dating site). And what does it matter? She should be seeing other guys. There is nothing between them. She gave indications to this fact many times. A make out session as he is leaving? Big D!

The first and only time I went on a WMVM trip to Russia every woman I met pushed to varying degrees for me to spend more time with them, not less.

TBB, if you want to go back and see this lady have others lined up for the days you won't be seeing her. And remain flexible as to those days too. She is likely to continue her behavior. Why wouldn't she, it's who she is. Pull hard on the reigns and slow yourself down. It is just dating. Maybe seeing a few of the same ones you saw last time will take your attention away from what is currently trying to blind you. Or maybe you'll have new insight into one of them.

It is your adventure, live it. Be considerate towards her but remember, you're the one travelling and giving right now. She has yet to show she is willing to give anything extra for you.

I am with Doll though. Why should she give up several days of pay at this point? That income is dear to her. Be respectful of that but remind yourself it's your life. You have to live it to please yourself. If she fits into it and makes it better then great. If not you move on.

Oh yeah, AND ALWAYS BE HONEST. If you're going to see others while there make sure she understands that and why.

[JR]

I agree with you that her actions can be seen as a bit rude, but I don't think it was intentional.  While reading the OP, I didn't get the impression that she was high-fiving her friends at a pool party for playing hard-to-get while TBB yearned to be with her.  My thoughts are that she figured he'd be gone soon and would forget all about her, so she had no desire to open her heart to him just so it can get broken.

We can't get into her head so we shouldn't try. Do you know that she didn't high five her friends? Do we know if she bawled her eyes out like a whipped pup after he left? We know none of this.

Past performance is a good indicator of the future.

TBB, how long are you willing to put up with the aloofness? She has already told you you're going to be on the sidelines for a good deal of your trip to see just her. What is to stop her from deciding to sun bathe again on the first weekend and see you for only a few hours each day? Are you prepared for that? How many more VO trips are you willing to put up with it?

[Misha]

Don't try to get inside this girls head. You can't do it.

That is why we talk. You can't get into somebody's head, but they can tell you what they are thinking 

[Misha]

We don't know how many men she is seeing, clue: (he met her on a Russian dating site).

So? Most women in agencies are also on Russian dating sites. If anything, given the odds that a woman will actually find a husband through an agency, I would be wary of any woman who is only using agencies to find a foreign husband. Most women want to find a good husband, and they will not limit their odds only by looking for foreigners. 

[Doll]

I am confused because something does not match: OP complains the girl doesn't do this, doesn't do that, he wants to "set his expectation" and stuff meanwhile he is  actively dating in the US. She can do same.
Op doesn't want to waste his money because the girl is going to work. This is she who can't waste her time - she has her job.
She clearly said she was not able to have off till November, yet OP wants to go sooner.
So his money is worth a lot and her job is nothing?
Well...

[JR]

That is why we talk. You can't get into somebody's head, but they can tell you what they are thinking 

Or they can tell you what they think you want to hear in order to get what they want.

No one here can prove this girl isn't sincere. Conversely no one can disprove that she is using the situation to make her old boyfriend jealous and get him back.

[Sculpto]

way too much speculation going on here.  They barely know each other.  PERIOD.

[JR]

So? Most women in agencies are also on Russian dating sites. If anything, given the odds that a woman will actually find a husband through an agency, I would be wary of any woman who is only using agencies to find a foreign husband. Most women want to find a good husband, and they will not limit their odds only by looking for foreigners. 

You cut the quote short, shame on you. I went on to say that she should be dating other (local) guys. Her reasons are her own, we don't know them. And I agree with you that most people want to find a "good" other and shouldn't limit themselves.

[JR]

way too much speculation going on here.  They barely know each other.  PERIOD.

I beg to differ. They will be married next week

[GQBlues]

I still believe that if TBB is this much interested in her, he ought to play his cards right if he feels she's worth it. The one thing you can never put out of the equation is the fact as a Russian woman, she just got out of a 6-year relationship with a Russian man. That's got to be worth far more than what an average WM going to FSU can dish out.

I love the challenge. So I'm rooting for you TBB! Do the right things. For me, she may well be a good catch.  

[TwoBitBandit]

I’ve attached the last four emails I’ve gotten from Inna.  I’ll probably ask Dan to remove this attachment at some point in the future if things with this girl move forward.  If anyone cares to read and help interpret, I’ll accept their interpretation.  Obviously, it is in Russian.  I've stripped out all the identifying info and Inna isn't her real name, so hopefully it won't come back to bite me.

TBB, how long are you willing to put up with the aloofness? She has already told you you're going to be on the sidelines for a good deal of your trip to see just her.

TBB, if you want to go back and see this lady have others lined up for the days you won't be seeing her. And remain flexible as to those days too. She is likely to continue her behavior. Why wouldn't she, it's who she is. Pull hard on the reigns and slow yourself down. It is just dating. Maybe seeing a few of the same ones you saw last time will take your attention away from what is currently trying to blind you. Or maybe you'll have new insight into one of them.

In my last letter I basically (but more diplomatically) said, “look, I want to meet you, but I’m going to have to get a lot of your time and you’ll have to take the time off work.”  Her response was something like, “OK, I’m game, but I won’t have the vacation until November.”  A lot of dealing with people is setting the right expectation: I just need to just gently negotiate the ground rules before my next visit, and have the balls to pull the plug if she’s playing games or it’s just not working out.

At some point I have to narrow it down and attempt visit-one and take a chance, albeit with some kind of backup plan in case I decide to hit the eject button.  If I go visit-many again it would be unreasonable to ask her to take the time off work.

Do you know that she didn't high five her friends? Do we know if she bawled her eyes out like a whipped pup after he left?

I think the truth about her is probably somewhere in the middle of what y’all are speculating.  She’s probably more serious now that she’s seen me, especially since I’m still contacting her after returning and haven’t forgotten about her.

The advice here, which could be summarized as “chill out, slow down the pace, and go chase some other girls while you’re waiting” is obvious.  It’s nonetheless helpful, I’m too buried in my own situation to be objective.

[Misha]

Or they can tell you what they think you want to hear in order to get what they want.

And, what exactly is she getting? She isn't asking for a trip to Paris or to go on a wild shopping spree on his dime  :evil: Let's see. Her outrageous demands included going home early in the evening and spending a day with her friends. She even met him in the evening after she spent the day with her friends. So, what can we say: 1) she doesn't jump into bed quickly with guys she just met (hardly a bad thing) and 2) she won't drop her friends and previous engagements (again, not a bad thing either). Nor, is she promising him love and commitment as they are still getting to know each other. In other words, she is acting pretty much as every other level-headed woman would act in Russia  :evil:

[Sculpto]

  the last 3 posts

[Misha]

I read her letter, and it is very nice, very sincere. An important sentence: "Но дело в том, что как ты уехал, прошло достаточно много времени, а я все еще думаю и говорю о тебе." She has already told her friends about you and since you left she hasn't stopped thinking and talking about you. In other words, she likes you. She notes that her girlfriends are trying to discourage her, because they do not want her to leave for America  In other words, if you like her, I strongly recommend that you pursue her.

[Doll]

В моей жизни был период, когда я могла назвать себя практически счастливым человеком, но в итоге это оказалось иллюзией. Разочаровавшись однажды в близком человеке, поверить другому человеку уже гораздо сложнее. Так получается, что в отношении с молодыми людьми, я делаю шаг вперед и два назад. Есть определенный психологический барьер. Мне проще считать всех друзьями, чтобы избежать ответственности и
обязательств. Я понимаю, что это ненормально, нельзя жить одним днем

See? There are no more questions. She is not hiding anything. 

[Erwin]

She knew I was visiting other girls, but she didn't ask how many.  I did tell her at the end of the first day I met her that I wanted to spend as much time with her as possible and cancel the rest of my meetings with other girls, but she didn’t want me to do that.

TwoBitBandit:

My personal experience has been that a good Russian woman who is sincerely interested in you as a potential spouse does not like the idea of you seeing other women; she does not play games or mess with your head. On the contrary, she would be brutally honest and very protective of you. She might not say this directly to your face but that is how she thinks, that is what she would probably tell her family and friends.

But, you got to win her heart, not with your money, not with your blue passport, but with your modesty, compassion, humility and sincere intention. Naturally, she will be a little bit more cautious now in pursuing a serious relationship with anyone given the fact that her prior relationship did not work out. This, however, should not stop you from pursuing her.

She already told her friends this: Но дело в том, что как ты уехал, прошло достаточно много времени, а я все еще думаю и говорю о тебе."

IMHO, you should go back just to see her.  Here is what I would do, if I were you>

I would tell her in RUSSIAN preferably in person on the telephone that she is always on your mind, that you have sincere intention towards her, and that you would like to go back to only see her day and night and meet with her family, friends and relatives and spend quality time with her and them for about one week.  Meet her good friends who are interested in her happiness. If you heart is set on her, tell her again in RUSSIAN that she is the only one for you, that you very much care for her and that you would like to build life and family together with her based on mutual true love, trust and respect. I told my wife this before my second visit to see and the rest is ...  .

TwoBitBandit, you will know how truly sincere she is about her intention towards you by the way she reacts and responds to this and your intention.  By spending quality time with her and her family in person, you will get to know her thought processes, moods, feelings, likes, dislikes,  etc. much better and faster and more effective that writing letters or texting messages, imho.

FWIW, my personal experience only...

Best of luck to you.

E

[JR]

And, what exactly is she getting? She isn't asking for a trip to Paris or to go on a wild shopping spree on his dime

I do believe it was her idea for him to pay her way to st. pete. Not quite Paris...but who am I to say? And who's to say she won't want to go shopping?

[TwoBitBandit]

But, you got to win her heart, not with your money, not with your blue passport, but with your modesty, compassion, humility and sincere intention. Naturally, she will be a little bit more cautious now in pursuing a serious relationship with anyone given the fact that her prior relationship did not work out. This, however, should not stop you from pursuing her.

Dude, give me a little credit, ok?

If I were you, I would tell her in RUSSIAN preferably in person on the telephone that she is always on your mind, that you have sincere intention towards her, and that you would like to go back to only see her day and night and meet with her family, friends and relatives and spend quality time with her and them for about one week.  If you heart is set on her, tell her again in RUSSIAN that she is the only one for you, that you very much care for her and that you would like to build life and family together with her based on mutual true love, trust and respect. I told my wife this before my second visit to see and the rest is ...  Smiley.

I'm a long ways away from a K1 application in any case.  It's true that the hard sell with K1 paperwork in hand can have some success, but I'm going to have to rack up a boatload of face time with this or any girl prior to an application.  I won't be a one-week-wonder.  If it worked out for you, I'm happy for you... but I'll propose when I'm ready.  Like the Russians say: семь раз отмерь, один отрежь.

[Sculpto]

I do believe it was her idea for him to pay her way to st. pete. Not quite Paris...but who am I to say? And who's to say she won't want to go shopping?

Sheesh JR.. whats that going to cost?  $20 train ticket?  She is probably bored in her town and going to StP is romantic. 

[JR]

I’ve attached the last four emails I’ve gotten from Inna.  I’ll probably ask Dan to remove this attachment at some point in the future if things with this girl move forward.  If anyone cares to read and help interpret, I’ll accept their interpretation.  Obviously, it is in Russian.  I've stripped out all the identifying info and Inna isn't her real name, so hopefully it won't come back to bite me.
In my last letter I basically (but more diplomatically) said, “look, I want to meet you, but I’m going to have to get a lot of your time and you’ll have to take the time off work.”  Her response was something like, “OK, I’m game, but I won’t have the vacation until November.”  A lot of dealing with people is setting the right expectation: I just need to just gently negotiate the ground rules before my next visit, and have the balls to pull the plug if she’s playing games or it’s just not working out.

At some point I have to narrow it down and attempt visit-one and take a chance, albeit with some kind of backup plan in case I decide to hit the eject button.  If I go visit-many again it would be unreasonable to ask her to take the time off work.
I think the truth about her is probably somewhere in the middle of what y’all are speculating.  She’s probably more serious now that she’s seen me, especially since I’m still contacting her after returning and haven’t forgotten about her.

The advice here, which could be summarized as “chill out, slow down the pace, and go chase some other girls while you’re waiting” is obvious.  It’s nonetheless helpful, I’m too buried in my own situation to be objective.

TBB, I think you're going about this with a pretty level head. Just don't get too far out in front of yourself.

And I agree that at some point you have to narrow it down. You know far more about her actions towards you then we do. You have to make the call. All we can do is point and say "Blah Blah Blah!" Which is exactly what we're doing.

Glean what you can from what we say and take your best shot. I see some red flags (as in rebound) but that's why you're here, right? You want us to point them out and kick it around for awhile. I just think it is silly for us to try to get into her head. Only she knows what is really going on in there.

But we can get into your head, and mess with it  

BTW: major Kudos to you for getting off your butt and doing something