How should I handle this girl?

[Erwin]

Dude, give me a little credit, ok?

I won't be a one-week-wonder.  If it worked out for you, I'm happy for you... but I'll propose when I'm ready.  Like the Russians say: семь раз отмерь, один отрежь.

Dude, don't get me wrong, I did not mean to malign or discredit you in anyway. I merely try to offer you with some advice that may be helpful to you as it has helped me, assuming you are serious and have sincere intention towards her. If you don't think it may be helpful, please disregard.

I did not meet my wife on line or through any agencies, and she has never met or dated any foreign men before she met me. One week was my second trip, one of the many long trips I took so that I could spend quality time with my wife and her parents, relatives and friends and convince them that I am very serious about building my life and family with my wife, and that I am not going to kill and abuse her (I could not believe the kind of stories are being told in the Russian media about the bad things some the foreign men have done to their Russian beloved daughers), and that I am going to love and take care of her for the rest of my life. My wife and her parents were very concerned about how much money it cost me to take the trips, to which concerns I told her and her parents that my wife is priceless and that I could not live without her.  Her parents gave us their blessings  

BTW, not all Russians believe in the Russians saying: семь раз отмерь, один отрежь.

E

[JR]

Sheesh JR.. whats that going to cost?  $20 train ticket?  She is probably bored in her town and going to StP is romantic. 

one train ride, $20

One Escada night gown, $2400

Hotel for 2 nights, $3000

One fur coat, $4000

One set of daimond earrings, $6000

On new bright red BMW, $124,000

One KEWL trip report, Priceless

In case anyone doesn't understand, this is a joke.

Only she knows her intentions. The destination or cost thereof says nothing about that. Look, I don't think she's a scammer or pro-dater. I just think that she doesn't know what she wants. It's pretty clear that she didn't set out to find a foreign man. That in itself could be a good indicator as to her sincerity.

[Misha]

I do believe it was her idea for him to pay her way to st. pete. Not quite Paris...but who am I to say? And who's to say she won't want to go shopping?

Not all Russian women are like your ex JR  :evil:

P.S. This is meant in jest, so no offense is intended 

[Sculpto]

stand still JR while I knock that chip off your shoulder. 

[Gator]

This woman is cruising in the slow right lane and has agreed to move to the middle lane.  After St. Piter, she may want to move to the fast lane.  That is all the Bandit should expect at this stage.

She did not list herself with a marriage agency but with a singles dating site.  Hence, meeting foreign men and leaving Russia was not a priority as it is with MOB agency women.  In fact, as with most RW, she may not have ever thought about the possibility.

[JR]

Not all Russian women are like your ex JR  :evil:

P.S. This is meant in jest, so no offense is intended  

I take it that way And you are right, as I point out frequently my situation was quite unique and so my advice about RW may not be the best. However I did learn a lot about myself and so I can point out things such as 'not making excuses' for others and 'to keep your eyes open while you're squinting at the target.'

Sculpto, I have no chip on my shoulder. I made my own bed and I laid in it. My ex was not to blame at all. She was only being true to who she was/is.

And that is what I try to point out to people. There really is nothing wrong with someone just because it doesn't work out. They just weren't the right person for you.

TTB came here because he has some doubts/issues/fears, whatever and asked for advice. I stand by what I have said thus far. Namely that we don't know her and he should keep his eyes and options open.

[Sculpto]

I take it that way And you are right, as I point out frequently my situation was quite unique and so my advice about RW may not be the best. However I did learn a lot about myself and so I can point out things such as 'not making excuses' for others and 'to keep your eyes open while you're squinting at the target.'

Sculpto, I have no chip on my shoulder. I made my own bed and I laid in it. My ex was not to blame at all. She was only being true to who she was/is.

And that is what I try to point out to people. There really is nothing wrong with someone just because it doesn't work out. They just weren't the right person for you.

TTB came here because he has some doubts/issues/fears, whatever and asked for advice. I stand by what I have said thus far. Namely that we don't know her and he should keep his eyes and options open.

seemed like you were telling him to dump her a few posts ago

[Daveman]

This woman is cruising in the slow right lane and has agreed to move to the middle lane.  After St. Piter, she may want to move to the fast lane.  That is all the Bandit should expect at this stage.

She did not list herself with a marriage agency but with a singles dating site.  Hence, meeting foreign men and leaving Russia was not a priority as it is with MOB agency women.  In fact, as with most RW, she may not have ever thought about the possibility.

absolutely agree here...

TBB, I'm not going to try to give any analysis of this woman other than to say this... remember, sometimes women can be like cats.. you can call them all you want and they won't come, remain aloof, etc, but the moment you turn your back, there they are rubbing against your leg...

Okay, maybe a better analogy... sometimes when you're trying to reel in a fish, you need to give it some line, the freedom to swim away a little, otherwise the line snaps and the fish is gone...

I think she's interested in you, but just needs a little time, space, and the feeling of freedom to choose to come to you. Once she makes that decision, I think you'll probably have a keeper.  Keep doing what you're doing, show the initiative of pursuing her, but with that stoic finesse of a patient fisherman.

I hope that made at least a little sense..

Good luck bro,
Dave

[TwoBitBandit]

TBB, I'm not going to try to give any analysis of this woman other than to say this... remember, sometimes women can be like cats.. you can call them all you want and they won't come, remain aloof, etc, but the moment you turn your back, there they are rubbing against your leg...

Okay, maybe a better analogy... sometimes when you're trying to reel in a fish, you need to give it some line, the freedom to swim away a little, otherwise the line snaps and the fish is gone...

I think she's interested in you, but just needs a little time, space, and the feeling of freedom to choose to come to you. Once she makes that decision, I think you'll probably have a keeper.  Keep doing what you're doing, show the initiative of pursuing her, but with that stoic finesse of a patient fisherman.

I hope that made at least a little sense..

That entirely made sense.

The reason I posted this is because I face an imminent decision: should I make an August trip?  If I did so, I'd have three down-days of wandering around in the city only meeting her in the evenings...plus some evenings of her going home early because it was a "working day," which would no doubt make me frustrated.  Then I'd have the trip to Peter.  I'd like to see Peter, yet I think travel can expose risk to a new relationship.  (If you really want to see how much of a pain in the ass someone can be, go travel with them.)  There's too much in this scenario that can go wrong.

The problem is if I don't make this trip, I can't see her until November.  Yet, if I do that my position is stronger and I'll get more of what I want.  (Her time + quiet downtime just to get to know her as a person + exposure to her social circle + meeting parents.)  The risk is that she'll meet some Russian guy in the meantime, so I just have to keep her hooked with light, charming emails and phone calls until then.

The anxiety of being in the "oh my God if I want to go in August I have to decide NOW" prompted this posting, but now I think the November option is the best choice.  So no worries and no rush.

[bobb]

I like the idea of putting off visiting until she has a full week in November.  Go to Petersburg and then to Nizhny.  St Pete is a magical city.  That is where I first met my fiancee in person, and it was the most incredible 10 days I have ever spent with a woman in my life.  We were both ourselves with hopes but also with our eyes open.  She is 58 and had not told her 32 year old son or her brothers she was going to meet an American.  As she told me, she did not want to hear all the reasons why she should not be doing this.  For our situation this worked well meeting in Petersburg first.  At our ages it was especially advantageous to just have the time to see how the two of us were together.  No distractions or possible negative input from family and/or friends.

I used to give my nephews and nieces some advice, before they were married, of a good method to help get to know another person.  Go on a 3 day trip and be together the entire time.  It is much harder to hide something from a person when you are with them all the time.  You will see them in many different situations.  It is not so much how long you have been seeing someone, as how much cumulative time you have spent doing things together.  Who will know more, a man who spends 4 solid days together with a woman, or a man who has visited for 10 days and spent less time with her?

From her letters she sounds sincere and is sharing with you who she is.  Her thoughts and how she thinks.  Start calling her on the phone before November.  Spring for a Webcam and start talking on Skype on weekends. 

These are just some of my thoughts.

[TwoBitBandit]

(accidental duplicate post)

[JR]

seemed like you were telling him to dump her a few posts ago

I can see where my first response may seem that way. But it is not. It is only that I believe she will continue to treat him as she did on his first trip. People don't change and how long will he play the sidelines?

Look, each of us comes at this from our own unique perspective. That is why we can give differing advice. It is up to TTB to sift thru it all, figure out what works for him and find his way to his destination.

I do believe TTB should be prepared to sever the the line and paddle away if she tells him on the first day there that she's going to sun bathe instead of seeing him when it is prearranged that he's coming to see her again. I also believe he shouldn't sit around those three days but rather find someone to spend that time with. It seems like this situation may take some time to bear fruit and it is my belief he should take it slow and try to avoid becoming overcommitted too soon.

And no I don't think at this point I'd pay her way to st. pete. I probably wouldn't go if she paid my way. But that's just me.

You're right, it isn't that much money and it might be a blast. But it might also be a minefield. Not because of money but because she may be on the rebound and a romantic get-a-way might push her to use TTB as a lifeboat instead of a true partner.

[Sculpto]

. I also believe he shouldn't sit around those three days but rather find someone to spend that time with.

Like who, another lady? 

[JR]

The anxiety of being in the "oh my God if I want to go in August I have to decide NOW" prompted this posting, but now I think the November option is the best choice.  So no worries and no rush.

You already know what you need to do TTB. Now step back, look at it from a detached point of view and make the right decision.

I would choose waiting also. But the only way you should be seeing it is that YOU might find someone better Remember she hasn't even given serious thought to leaving Russia. And what about telling her partents? Should I say the word? I think I will: BillyB!

Give her some time to warm to you. Move forward but there's no need to rush in blindly. Use the time to get to know her. Try to figure out where she is in her "post 6 year relationship." If she constantly bad mouths him and or men she is probably still dealing with issues. And those will fall in your lap.

[JR]

Like who, another lady? 

Why not? Are they exclusive? I didn't read anywhere where they are.

[Sculpto]

Why not? Are they exclusive? I didn't read anywhere where they are.

He said he would be going specifically to see her.

If she is a good girl, and he is only going to see her, she will find someone to keep him company and look after him while she is at work.

[Muddy]

So much bad advice in this topic.
Its sad!

[JR]

He said he would be going specifically to see her.

If she is a good girl, and he is only going to see her, she will find someone to keep him company and look after him while she is at work.

Just because he is going to see only her does not mean they are exclusive. It only means he won't see other women on this trip. I believe TTB stated he's fishing the local waters as we speak. Until they both agree the relationship is exclusive the table is open and anyone can sit down to play.

[Sculpto]

So much bad advice in this topic.
Its sad!

Maybe he should put a trojan keylogger on her computer so he can see who she is talking to now.   

[GQBlues]

I was in St Pete in a September, a November, a February, and a July.

Nevski teems during the summer months. November becomes cool and damp and the action starts to tone down a few notches, except of course in a few underground spots. February is just butt-out cold and stays dark until past 10 AM. Like November, the women show little skin.

I can be there Monday or Tuesday on a warm balmy September and wait until the weekend when she gets to town and be with me. As much as I won't be planning on meeting anyone else, I have almost an entire week so I will definitely check out Nevski's gigs and sniff the local talent. So by the time she arrives my bearings will definitely be well adjusted and balanced. A lot of things can happen and a lot of things will tell you about you and where you're at by the time the weekend comes rolling by.

In SP, I definitely look like an Uzbek. Ugly as I am, I doubly stuck out like a sore thumb, but based on what I saw I know I can do better than OK there. You TBB OTOH, coupled with your language skills, can definitely make news.

But that's just me....

Besides, according to you, what's here at home?

[bobb]

...I do believe TTB should be prepared to sever the the line and paddle away if she tells him on the first day there that she's going to sun bathe instead of seeing him when it is prearranged that he's coming to see her again...

We'll sure, but I don't believe she was serious he was serious when they first met.  Remember, this was all new to her.  Even though he said he wanted to spend time with only her, she still knew about the other women he had met.  How much trust can you expect her to have right away.  It's a lot easier to kiss and hold hands at her age than it is to have instant trust and believe what the other person is telling you. 

They need to talk and ask many questions of each other before his next visit.  Some say to just rush ahead and go meet a woman right away, others say spend some time asking questions and getting to know each other before visiting.  Each situation is unique and what works for some will not work for others. 

One of the hardest things in communication is for two people to 'hear' what the other person has said.  In this endeavor this potential problem is multiplied.  There is a reason a person must have patience in this pursuit.

Whatever you decide 2Bit I wish you the best of luck.

[Misha]

The reason I posted this is because I face an imminent decision: should I make an August trip?  If I did so, I'd have three down-days of wandering around in the city only meeting her in the evenings...plus some evenings of her going home early because it was a "working day," which would no doubt make me frustrated.

If you have the time and money, why not? If you are worried about being bored while she is at work, bring a few good books.

I'd like to see Peter, yet I think travel can expose risk to a new relationship.  (If you really want to see how much of a pain in the ass someone can be, go travel with them.)  There's too much in this scenario that can go wrong.

And, there is a lot that can go right. Peter is a beautiful, romantic city  :evil: Seeing it alone is wonderful, seeing it with a beautiful companion is even better 

[Doll]

She did not list herself with a marriage agency but with a singles dating site.  Hence, meeting foreign men and leaving Russia was not a priority as it is with MOB agency women.  In fact, as with most RW, she may not have ever thought about the possibility.

I am not sure of marriage  agencies, but yet have to comment- the girl who was a part of this "social" is not the person who "is not thinking of meeting WM"
Then how come she was at this party in the first place?

Another comment: I don't think OP can count on meeting her parents or friend on his next trip.

[Doll]

How much trust can you expect her to have right away

.   
Not too much ( so no meeting her parents or friends again)

[janic]

The reason I posted this is because I face an imminent decision: should I make an August trip?

It depends on what you want: IMO the girl is very honest and well educated. She likes you and possibly likes you a lot. She is even willing to go with you to St. Petersburg what IMO shows that she trusts you and wants to spend time together with you to learn if you are a guy she wants to be with and for whom it's worth to give up her life in Russia.

Maybe I got you wrong but from what I read from you I have rather the impression that you want her a) to jump into the sack with you ASAP and b) an immediate commitment. Dude, if that's more-or-less right than there's just one thing I can ask you: Dude, are you serious?! O_O

You complain about 5k a trip would cost you but unfortunately you don't indicate how much this amount really is for you. A months income? More? Less? YOU are the one who started to look for a RW. Now you are complaining about the money it costs to meet a nice girl for some days and find out if you two could have a common future. Dude, are you serious?!

You write about the 4USD she makes per hour but seem to neglect the fact that it's her JOB, her INCOME, her LIFE-SUPPORT! Dude, are you serious?!

If I did so, I'd have three down-days of wandering around in the city only meeting her in the evenings...plus some evenings of her going home early because it was a "working day," which would no doubt make me frustrated.

Ahm, are you unable to make some use of the time in the evening and the three days? Then you need a nanny and not a wife.

 Then I'd have the trip to Peter.  I'd like to see Peter, yet I think travel can expose risk to a new relationship.  (If you really want to see how much of a pain in the ass someone can be, go travel with them.)  There's too much in this scenario that can go wrong.

What can go wrong? That you two find out that the acquaintance is nice but you don't love each other? Man, even if thats what's gonna happen the trip was a success. No better way to find out if you two can be a thing than such a trip.

But - as I wrote earlier - if the trip shows that there might be a common future you should be prepared to visit her in November too.

The risk is that she'll meet some Russian guy in the meantime

That's not a real risk because it can happen any given moment from now 'til death parts you two.

so I just have to keep her hooked with light, charming emails and phone calls until then. [...] but now I think the November option is the best choice.  So no worries and no rush.

I would rather do the trip to Peter.

Regards, j.