not married, but question anyway

[XMan]

Have read more than a few scary bits within the forum about marriage gone disastrously wrong. 

I understand, of course, "get to the know the woman as well as possible," and "don't ignore the red flags." 

What are the legal options to protect oneself before getting married to an RW/UW?
Can someone point me in the right direction? 
Does one need a lawyer well versed in international marriage law?  (is there such a thing?)
Thanks.

[Doll]

" to protect ourselves" from what?

[XMan]

To protect oneself from being taken to the cleaners by someone whose intentions were not what they seemed prior to marriage.  Don't know if prenuptial agreements are effective or not. 
Thanks.

[kievstar]

Nothing will protect you 100%.  Any lawyer who tells you otherwise is full of it.  You marry a girl and you get a divorce she is going to get her fair share. 

[BillyB]

If you have significant assets and want to get a prenup, make sure it follows your State's guildlines otherwise it's no good. Besides your attorney, you also need a translator and attorney for your RW otherwise she can say she never understood and it will be no good. A prenup isn't really protection against your RW, it's more to protect yourself from a judge that uses a lot of discretion when determining who gets what and usually judges favor women, especially if she's not employable since she's an immigrant with limited English. Remember, you brought her here, you have to take care of her. A judge most likely will give her more than the average American woman since he doesn't want the taxpayers to pay for for her being on a social program and paying for your mistake.

[XMan]

Thanks.

Not sure how an AM reaches the level of trust required to take that leap. 
Clearly some have done so and have been successful. 
Others have done so and paid the price as well, apparently.

There are plenty of good actresses out there, I would imagine. 
Seems all too easy to get taken down the river post marriage day. 
Not sure how good my RW/UW B.S. radar is.  I guess that is what concerns me.
Thanks again.

[JR]

You can get taken to the cleaners by an AM also. A lot of that will depend upon whether or not she has an income of her own. If your wife doesn't work and you get divorced you're going to pay to support her.

[Ade]

Thanks.

Not sure how an AM reaches the level of trust required to take that leap. 
Clearly some have done so and have been successful. 
Others have done so and paid the price as well, apparently.

There are plenty of good actresses out there, I would imagine. 
Seems all too easy to get taken down the river post marriage day. 
Not sure how good my RW/UW B.S. radar is.  I guess that is what concerns me.
Thanks again.

From your posts it seems you are running scared. Get over it or forget about international dating; if you don't and you go into this full of paranoia and distrust you will be wasting your time as no woman worth having will be willing to be with you.

If you want to reduce you risk of failure, take your time, visit often and really get to know the woman. Extremely few scammers are willing to spend years on their con.

[kievstar]

If you can not afford to lose 51% of your assets than do not marry.  Your placing money over family.  I do not believe in prenups - How could I take a woman from her own country and family than make her sign a piece of paper like a slave.  My wife knows she wants a divorce she will get several million.  That is life. 

I would focus what causes divorces - lack of chemistry, thinking with the wrong head, economical, dating out of league, disagreement on children, etc.  My wife is my best friend and she says I am her best friend.  Best friends do not worry about prenups, trust issues, etc.  You need to marry your best friend who also says your her best friend and hopefully she is a woman. 

I do have a question with the OP - why do you want to date and than marry a RW?

[Faux Pas]

Xman....this question gets asked on this forum repeatedly. You can do a search and read the 100's of other responses. Like the other posters here I don't believe in pre-nups. But of course I don't have a fortune to protect either. RW just like AW can and will hang you out to dry in the event of a divorce. A judge will generally see that they receive their just due and, rightfully so.

The only way to protect yourself IMHO is to learn, know and love the woman you plan to marry and make sure she shares that love with you. If you enter into a marriage to a woman you don't know, you'll well deserve to take it up the pooper during the divorce. There is no handbook on marriage to a FSUW that is legitimate and has these answers. Enter into the relationship with a FSUW just as you would with any AW. Don't let your penis do your thinking for you and you will make out alright. Don't marry the wrong lady, it doesn't matter on which side of the pond she is on. If you can't read AW, you won't be able to read FSUW either. They are a much tougher read for the obvious reasons.

If you are paranoid of losing your "stuff", you are in the wrong game. Stick to women closer to home and hope that you can find one there to love. When the relationship is measured in a financial spreadsheet it is doomed for failure. Keep this equation out. JMO

[GQBlues]

To protect oneself from being taken to the cleaners by someone whose intentions were not what they seemed prior to marriage.  Don't know if prenuptial agreements are effective or not. 

I don't really have a whole lot of asset, but what I do have is a lot for me and all I've got.

When I decided to finally get married, I arguably made the biggest investment in my life. My life.
I don't have a pre-nup, I didn't even come close to considering it. Should I have been concerned of what can happen in the event of a divorce, or even an untimely end in our relationship/marriage? Of course I did. No sane man will ever make a leaping decision in his life without first exploring potential consequences of his decisions.

So, I decided to invest in my wife's life and future. I made sure to afford her every conceivable opportunity to make something of herself. I supported her in her ambition and in every way I can - financially, emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually and socially. My wife understands this and tells me how she appreciates sharing this life she have with me. She is now an accomplished woman in her own right.

Sooooo, in the end, if things work out the way we planned and dreamed before, and much that I had always hoped, the compliment addition of a wonderful, self-sufficient, well-rounded, highly appreciative woman in MY life was a great investment in our future together. However, If things find a premature end in our relationship, regardless of cause, I am happy knowing that I will be doing so with a wonderful, self-sufficient, well-rounded, highly appreciative woman I can ever hope to part ways with.

YMMV.

[BillyB]

A pastor once told me that prenups are good. It's nice to know what everybody is going to get going into marriage and what they are getting when they get out of it. With money issues aside, people can focus on marrying for love.

Money is an issue with most women. Personally I wouldn't want a woman satisfied marrying an unemployed man living in a trailer park. To a lessor extent, us men are affected by money in relationships. If I saw two equally physically attractive women and one was a doctor making the big bucks and one worked at a shop, I'd be attracted to the doctor.

Most people don't need prenups but if you have lots of money and/or famous, you are a magnet and will attract a lot of insincere people in your life who wants something from you. If a guy wants a prenup, I think nothing less of him unless it reeks of selfishness but of course what I think is fair may not be what other's think. To some I might be greedy, to others they may think of me as generous. Maybe a guy who wants a prenup is smarter than most of us since he realize his weakness that he's not a genius when it comes to women. Any man who guarantees his marriage will not end in divorce is a fool.

A good prenup will follow State guildlines when it comes to splitting up assets so it's fair to both parties. If it doesn't it most likely will be void. A good prenup could put a smile on your fiancee's face giving her comfort that she's marrying a fair man.  A good prenup may encourage your woman and her attorney from challenging it will stand in court thus preventing you from having a long nasty expensive court battle. An amicable divorce is always desirable.

I just finished reading ScottinCrimea's thread for the first time and he's lucky it didn't turn into a nightmare. All the "nice guy" things he did for his wife wouldn't count in court. Women's activists and the ex's attorney could've hanged him.

[XMan]

"running scared." 
Hmmm.  Not exactly. 
I do think it's wise to consider what happens if things go dramatically awry. 

I do agree concerning getting to know the woman as well as possible, of course. 
But I'm uncertain if that can really be done without language fluency. 
Then again, I've seen some AW that are inscrutable, and we speak the same language, more or less.

Interesting feedback. 
Thanks. 

[Aloe]

it also depends on the country you are marrying in, if you need a prenup or not. In Belgium you are responsible for debts that your spouse makes, unless you have a contract that says otherwise, including the debts made during divorce process while officially separated, and divorce may take up to 3 years. So you can borrow loads of money, run away to some cheap place and live happily ever after while your spouse has to pay off your debts, i read some men do that to some unsuspecting FSU women. Dont even need to run away, might as well stay and refuse to pay debts if you dont have a job, your spouse will have to pay all of it. I think that is so wrong, making another person responsible for somebody elses actions

[groovlstk]

I do agree concerning getting to know the woman as well as possible, of course.  
But I'm uncertain if that can really be done without language fluency.

My wife wasn't fluent when we first met, but her English was good enough that we could discuss all serious subjects and, perhaps most importantly, we could argue coherently (this is not a joke, BTW). If you're talking about women who have zero English, you're correct - there have been several members here in successful marriages whose wives learned English during courtship, and even a very select few whose wives arrived in the US with none.

As far as the getting-to-know-each-other part, it's all for moot if you make the mistake of falling for a pretty face before she reciprocates (if ever) - guys who do this will endlessly rationalize bad behavior until the inevitable meltdown. One thing that worked for me (and I suspect a few other married guys, from reading old TRs) is that when I met my wife for the first time, I liked her. A lot. But I was ready to walk away at the drop of a hat if she didn't feel the same and made it very clear when we had some issues during our first few days together. Had I behaved like a puppy dog and grovelled she'd have lost all interest in me.

[ambach123]

Billy B has summed it up very well, better than I could write.

Most people don't need a prenup, because they have noting to lose financially. The stats are that 76% of Americans have no assets; and another 20% have minimal assets including equity in their home, if they own one and it is not under water and the retirement plans.

Remember whatever happens, she can't take from you what you don't have.

If you are in the 4% of Americans who have any significant assets, you do need a prenuptial agreement. The prenups are governed by state laws. There are 34 states that have adopted a Uniform Code, that means that if the agreement meets certain requirement, the judge has no discretion to alter it.  Nevada is such a state, they marry and divorce about a million couples each year. The prenup if properly written is taken by the judge as is. I have never heard of a Nevada judge, even hearing it for more than a few minutes.

What those certain conditions are? There are several websites you can find that out. One popular one is www.legalzoom.com   What if you live in a state that deos not have the Uniform Code,  marry in one that accepts it.

[BC]

Ambach..

have you gotten away from those DIY sites/books and seen a real lawyer yet?

[BC]

What those certain conditions are? There are several websites you can find that out. One popular one is www.legalzoom.com   What if you live in a state that deos not have the Uniform Code,  marry in one that accepts it.

You seem to be really misinformed.. since when does the state where you married even count.. IIRC it's the state where you reside that counts..

Why do you think Ms. Boris Becker moved from Germany to Florida?

On 17 December 1993, Becker married actress and designer Barbara Feltus, the daughter of an African-American father and German mother, who later became a well known photographer in Germany. A month later, on 18 January 1994, their son Noah Gabriel was born. He was named after Becker's friends Yannick Noah and Peter Gabriel. Their second child, Elias, was born on 4 September 1999. Before the marriage, they shocked some media in Germany by posing nude for the cover of Stern (the picture was taken by her father).

Becker initiated a separation from Barbara in December 1999, saying he merely wanted some time out. However, Barbara flew to Miami, Florida, U.S. a week later with Noah and Elias and filed a divorce petition in Miami-Dade County Court, sidestepping their prenuptial agreement, which had entitled her to a single $2.5 million payoff. The January 2001 pretrial hearing was broadcast live to Germany. Becker was granted a divorce on 15 January 2001. She got a $14.4 million settlement, their condo on the exclusive Fisher Island, and custody of Noah and Elias.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Becker

IIRC they married in Germany and filed prenuptial agreement there.

Lead, don't mislead, especially with no experience whatsoever.

[GQBlues]

If you are in the 4% of Americans who have any significant assets, you do need a prenuptial agreement.

Mystifying.

If you have all the marbles, you definitely have the right to protect them.

I, for one, is not in that 4% group of Americans. FWIW, had I been one of them however, the last thing I'd want to do is get married, let alone go to a disadvantaged country to find a wife.

If in the strangest of strange I woke up and felt like settling down, there's definitely a multitude of females in that 4% range that I can chase...movie stars, models, fortune 500 ceiling breakers, etc....

Why would anyone who is at the 4% range of Americans be in Ukraine looking for a wife, and one who doesn't speak any English to boot? That's flat-out strangely mystifying to me.

[BC]

Why would anyone who is at the 4% range of Americans be in Ukraine looking for a wife, and one who doesn't speak any English to boot? That's flat-out strangely mystifying to me.

I have repeatedly contended that those truly requiring prenuptial agreements would surely not be hanging around here harping DIY books but would instead be advised by his/her staff lawyer.

Now if someone wants to come here and puff up chest, quite ok but don't suck in too much.. all it takes is a little pin to pop that baloon.

[ambach123]

BC, I don't know or care where you are from, but stop telling me about my country; I detest these idiots who know nothing about our system, but always have a comment..

From whatever country you are, I don't have any comments on either you or your country. I know nothing about either, and I have no desire to know either.

GQ I offered you stats which are common knowledge,  do a serch on Google, you will find the answers, closely matching the numbers I have given you, quite elementary.

One suggested search is " Number of millionaires in USA " there are quite detailed analysis of wealth in America.

Why would someone in 4% seek a wife in FSU? That is another question, may be you should start a thread about it. Just because you don't understand, that does not mean that there are no valid reasons.

[GQBlues]

GQ I offered you stats which are common knowledge,

I actually wasn't contesting the accounting. The mystifying comment is the entire premise of exercising due diligence to protect one's lot, but lack the same sense by submitting one's self in a situation that's undeniably volatile. IMO, there are much safer venues to search for a significant other who is in the same economic platform and would lessen the concern, yes? Or at the least one that's far less volatile.

You try to be diligent in your plans to do something foolish is how it appears to me.

Just because you don't understand, that does not mean that there are no valid reasons.

Yes, of course I didn't understand that's why I find it mystifying. I didn't say wrong. I was resigned that you knew. Care to share?

[BC]

BC, I don't know or care where you are from, but stop telling me about my country; I detest these idiots who know nothing about our system, but always have a comment..

From whatever country you are, I don't have any comments on either you or your country. I know nothing about either, and I have no desire to know either.

Ambach, you are Soo FOS (yes, fool of sh!t) that you have absolutely no clue.. and I don't give a damn about anyone telling me to cool off as far as you are concerned.  You haven't a clue and can only provide references to some books on amazon.com.  

You speak that things are somehow different in your country.
You speak that I know nothing about "Your system"

but guess what.. I carry the exact same passport and citizenship as you do..

so.. quite honestly, I feel I can say SIUYFA$$

[ambach123]

BC, There is an " ignore " button, you know how to use it? Then use it.

And don't EVER comment on whatever I write. You know nothing about me or my country, just as I know nothing about you or your country. The difference is that I have no desire to know anyhing about either, and I have never made a comment on anything you have ever written.

[BC]

BC, There is an " ignore " button, you know how to use it? Then use it.

And don't EVER comment on whatever I write. You know nothing about me or my country, just as I know nothing about you or your country. The difference is that I have no desire to know anyhing about either, and I have never made a comment on anything you have ever written.

Ambach, as long as you post here I will feel very free to comment, with or without your permission.

It is very obvious you cannot read.

If you feel entitled to disallow me from responding to your posts start your own forum.  www.ambachwayorhigway.com seems fitting.. otherwise get used to it.

Yes, you have commented little on what I write because you choose to ignore rather than face the facts.  Until you can contradict with authority and substance your words mean absolutely nothing to me or anyone else viewing.